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Tomasello out minimum of three months, injured during U23 finals...link

el dub said:
Which Koontz?

Isn't there two of them?
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Yes, Dylan and Brady Koontz are twins from Wisconsin. Between the two, Dylan, is the only one that is realistically even an option to start right now. Brady wrestled 113 this summer, 106 in 2016, and the rumor was (I don't know the validity of this, but I'll spread it on this thread anyway, just for dramatic effect) that he could have made 106 again his Senior year, if he wanted to cut weight all season. However, that was unnecessary, as he was undefeated and ranked #1 all year in his division at 113. Unfortunately for him, the undefeated record would come to an end at the worst possible time, in the State finals, where he was upset and was forced to settle as the State Runner-up. Dylan meanwhile wrestled 120, and was likewise #1 ranked in his division all year. Unfortunately, he too was upset at the State Tournament and finished 3rd. Fortunately, both did win a State Championship during their Junior season, 106 for Brady and 113 for Dylan.

Neither ended their high school career nationally ranked. Although Dylan did appear in Intermat's individual weight class rankings, near the bottom, on a couple different occasions (at least twice per my knowledge and perhaps more) only to be bumped back out shortly there after. In most circles, Dylan, was the higher thought of prospect by a fairly wide margin considering they were twins with similar resumes. Dylan's larger size being the big reason (pun intended!) for that opinion, which was not shared by everyone.

Honestly though, I mainly just posted that last bit about Koontz for the guy on here that is all about the Koontz twins and is always working them into his posts on all sorts of different threads. I like that guy, his screen name is escaping me at the time being (someone help me out). I suppose this is technically trolling, but I am doing the trolling with positive intentions, as Dylan really is likely to be Ohio State's starter at 125 as a TRUE FRESHMEN, until January or so. A couple snide posters remarked to the previously mentioned Koontz supporter that the twins were merely practice take down dummies, and would surely never start for Ohio State, or any other big time DI program for that matter. And again, Dylan is now likely to start as a TRUE FRESHMEN! Regardless of the situation, that is impressive, and I wanted to bring it up where it was very much relevant and I can't wait for the Koontz supporter to see him take the mat in a big time DI dual! By all accounts the Koontz brothers seem like great young men, hard working, academic studs, who come from an excellent family. I immediately thought of the flak that poster caught for bringing them up on some recruiting threads here when I saw that Dylan was now favored by most Ohio State insiders to start their opening dual of the season. I hope he basks in that, at least a little bit!
 
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JustWrestle133 said:
Yes, Dylan and Brady Koontz are twins from Wisconsin. Between the two, Dylan, is the only one that is realistically even an option to start right now. Brady wrestled 113 this summer, 106 in 2016, and the rumor was (I don't know the validity of this, but I'll spread it on this thread anyway, just for dramatic effect) that he could have made 106 again his Senior year, if he wanted to cut weight all season. However, that was unnecessary, as he was undefeated and ranked #1 all year in his division at 113. Unfortunately for him, the undefeated record would come to an end at the worst possible time, in the State finals, where he was upset and was forced to settle as the State Runner-up. Dylan meanwhile wrestled 120, and was likewise #1 ranked in his division all year. Unfortunately, he too was upset at the State Tournament and finished 3rd. Fortunately, both did win a State Championship during their Junior season, 106 for Brady and 113 for Dylan.

Neither ended their high school career nationally ranked. Although Dylan did appear in Intermat's individual weight class rankings, near the bottom, on a couple different occasions (at least twice per my knowledge and perhaps more) only to be bumped back out shortly there after. In most circles, Dylan, was the higher thought of prospect by a fairly wide margin considering they were twins with similar resumes. Dylan's larger size being the big reason (pun intended!) for that opinion, which was not shared by everyone.

Honestly though, I mainly just posted that last bit about Koontz for the guy on here that is all about the Koontz twins and is always working them into his posts on all sorts of different threads. I like that guy, his screen name is escaping me at the time being (someone help me out). I suppose this is technically trolling, but I am doing the trolling with positive intentions, as Dylan really is likely to be Ohio State's starter at 125 as a TRUE FRESHMEN, until January or so. A couple snide posters remarked to the previously mentioned Koontz supporter that the twins were merely practice take down dummies, and would surely never start for Ohio State, or any other big time DI program for that matter. And again, Dylan is now likely to start as a TRUE FRESHMEN! Regardless of the situation, that is impressive, and I wanted to bring it up where it was very much relevant and I can't wait for the Koontz supporter to see him take the mat in a big time DI dual! By all accounts the Koontz brothers seem like great young men, hard working, academic studs, who come from an excellent family. I immediately thought of the flak that poster caught for bringing them up on some recruiting threads here when I saw that Dylan was now favored by most Ohio State insiders to start their opening dual of the season. I hope he basks in that, at least a little bit!
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You're talking about our very own WwDMm.....
 
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el dub said:
You're talking about our very own WwDMm.....
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Thank you!

He made me a Koontz supporter as well! Even though I have never even seen them wrestle in person. Yet at least! As now it appears I will likely have some high profile opportunities hahaha, I hope I didn't just jinx him and now he loses his wrestle off to Braken Mead.
 
JustWrestle133 said:
Yes, Dylan and Brady Koontz are twins from Wisconsin. Between the two, Dylan, is the only one that is realistically even an option to start right now. Brady wrestled 113 this summer, 106 in 2016, and the rumor was (I don't know the validity of this, but I'll spread it on this thread anyway, just for dramatic effect) that he could have made 106 again his Senior year, if he wanted to cut weight all season. However, that was unnecessary, as he was undefeated and ranked #1 all year in his division at 113. Unfortunately for him, the undefeated record would come to an end at the worst possible time, in the State finals, where he was upset and was forced to settle as the State Runner-up. Dylan meanwhile wrestled 120, and was likewise #1 ranked in his division all year. Unfortunately, he too was upset at the State Tournament and finished 3rd. Fortunately, both did win a State Championship during their Junior season, 106 for Brady and 113 for Dylan.

Neither ended their high school career nationally ranked. Although Dylan did appear in Intermat's individual weight class rankings, near the bottom, on a couple different occasions (at least twice per my knowledge and perhaps more) only to be bumped back out shortly there after. In most circles, Dylan, was the higher thought of prospect by a fairly wide margin considering they were twins with similar resumes. Dylan's larger size being the big reason (pun intended!) for that opinion, which was not shared by everyone.

Honestly though, I mainly just posted that last bit about Koontz for the guy on here that is all about the Koontz twins and is always working them into his posts on all sorts of different threads. I like that guy, his screen name is escaping me at the time being (someone help me out). I suppose this is technically trolling, but I am doing the trolling with positive intentions, as Dylan really is likely to be Ohio State's starter at 125 as a TRUE FRESHMEN, until January or so. A couple snide posters remarked to the previously mentioned Koontz supporter that the twins were merely practice take down dummies, and would surely never start for Ohio State, or any other big time DI program for that matter. And again, Dylan is now likely to start as a TRUE FRESHMEN! Regardless of the situation, that is impressive, and I wanted to bring it up where it was very much relevant and I can't wait for the Koontz supporter to see him take the mat in a big time DI dual! By all accounts the Koontz brothers seem like great young men, hard working, academic studs, who come from an excellent family. I immediately thought of the flak that poster caught for bringing them up on some recruiting threads here when I saw that Dylan was now favored by most Ohio State insiders to start their opening dual of the season. I hope he basks in that, at least a little bit!
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Decaf, brah. It’s a thing. Look into it.
 
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Glad we didn't see any of our college guys at this thing. The timing sucks and not worth the risk. I get Snyder competing in international events year round. The guy is basically doing OSU a favor sticking it out. Nato on the other hand. Dude should be focused on winning a NCAA title and helping his team win a team title. If we had the team OSU did and had a shot to knockoff Corrupt Cael and sent a guy like Nato to this tournament only to be hurt we would have a lot of pissed off fans including myself.
 
DonHawkeye said:
Glad we didn't see any of our college guys at this thing. The timing sucks and not worth the risk. I get Snyder competing in international events year round. The guy is basically doing OSU a favor sticking it out. Nato on the other hand. Dude should be focused on winning a NCAA title and helping his team win a team title. If we had the team OSU did and had a shot to knockoff Corrupt Cael and sent a guy like Nato to this tournament only to be hurt we would have a lot of pissed off fans including myself.
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I'll repeat this for the 100th time. There is a greater chance of being injured during the 10+ hours of practice than there is during the less than half an hour spent on the mat at a wrestling tournament. Risk of injury is not a reason to not compete.

I don't think Tomasello was going to spend much time in the lineup during the 1st half of the season anyway. Definite pitch count with the weigh ins.
 
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PapaBearSLIM said:
I'll repeat this for the 100th time. There is a greater chance of being injured during the 10+ hours of practice than there is during the less than half an hour spent on the mat at a wrestling tournament. Risk of injury is not a reason to not compete.

I don't think Tomasello was going to spend much time in the lineup during the 1st half of the season anyway. Definite pitch count with the weigh ins.
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If anything, it gives them legit excuse to fans to sit him. I don't know how injured he is but I am sure the ego has to be hurting a bit.
 
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My question is weight now. I thought I had read he was going to try to 125 this year. Managing weight on a thick frame like his is tricky already, but to do it while injured is really tough.
 
PapaBearSLIM said:
I'll repeat this for the 100th time. There is a greater chance of being injured during the 10+ hours of practice than there is during the less than half an hour spent on the mat at a wrestling tournament. Risk of injury is not a reason to not compete.

I don't think Tomasello was going to spend much time in the lineup during the 1st half of the season anyway. Definite pitch count with the weigh ins.
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This is a great point. But in the room you have the familiarity factor, teammate factor, intensity factor, and potentially a diminished competition factor. Now does that balanced out what you said? I don’t know. Certainly not disagreeing with you completely.

I do truly think missing several months is a big deal. A lot different than just sitting out some duals.
 
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SPOONER said:
Is it? Pretty doubtful either would ever be in their lineup, isn’t it? Barring injury—which is what is happening here.
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I don't know if it's doubtful or not. Either way it's an interesting question to which I don't know the answer. If this ends up being his only varsity experience then it's a blessing(for him at least). If he ends up developing into their varsity 25 pounder for the next three years, the it could be a waste of his redshirt(in my opinion) to MAYBE help them win an extra dual or two
 
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jvclark said:
Wow. That is a tough redshirt pull if Tomasello is predicted he's going to be back for big tens and NCAAs
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With the battalion of 125s tOSU is amassing with no clear cut "the guy" for the future I would think that every 125 on the roster would jump at the chance. Redshirt be damned none of those guys know if they'll get a better chance to stake a claim on being "the guy" for the future.
 
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SPOONER said:
This is a great point. But in the room you have the familiarity factor, teammate factor, intensity factor, and potentially a diminished competition factor. Now does that balanced out what you said? I don’t know. Certainly not disagreeing with you completely.

I do truly think missing several months is a big deal. A lot different than just sitting out some duals.
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I think that the real injuries happen in practice when kids are exhausted and coaches just keep pushing and putting them in hard live situations or conditioning. The likelihood of being injured in practice is much higher than in competition.
 
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DayHawk18 said:
I think that the real injuries happen in practice when kids are exhausted and coaches just keep pushing and putting them in hard live situations or conditioning. The likelihood of being injured in practice is much higher than in competition.
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All might be true and certainly good points all around. I guess I might lean more towards more injury risk in competition due to the less controlled environment. It's a good debate.
 
jvclark said:
I don't know if it's doubtful or not. Either way it's an interesting question to which I don't know the answer. If this ends up being his only varsity experience then it's a blessing(for him at least). If he ends up developing into their varsity 25 pounder for the next three years, the it could be a waste of his redshirt(in my opinion) to MAYBE help them win an extra dual or two
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When you look at the type of talent that normally ends up at tOSU to say these kids are on the low end rankings-wise isn't a stretch.
 
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SPOONER said:
When you look at the type of talent that normally ends up at tOSU to say these kids are on the low end rankings-wise isn't a stretch.
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Yeah Spoons I get it. And you might be right. But if he isn't any good, then where is the talent that you are saying(and I would agree btw) that fOSU should have waiting in the wings?

Maybe Ryan hasn't recruited 125 very well? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Maybe Ryan has an incoming 2018 freshman that he has planned on wrestling as a true freshman all along once Nato is done? Or maybe a lot of people have underestimated this kid Koontz and he is better then expected.

Like I said. If he isn't very good, then this is a career making 3 months even though he is just a fill in throw dummy. But if he is legit and he is the future 125, then it's a waste of a redshirt to give them 3-4 extra points every few dual meets. fOSU is going to roll everyone in the Big Ten besides PSU, Mich and maybe ourselves? They really don't need him in there anyway
 
It’s either one of the Koontz twins or Brakan Mead who will start at 125. Most likely one of those guys would start next year as well because Heinselman still needs to get bigger.
 
jvclark said:
Yeah Spoons I get it. And you might be right. But if he isn't any good, then where is the talent that you are saying(and I would agree btw) that fOSU should have waiting in the wings?

Maybe Ryan hasn't recruited 125 very well? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Maybe Ryan has an incoming 2018 freshman that he has planned on wrestling as a true freshman all along once Nato is done? Or maybe a lot of people have underestimated this kid Koontz and he is better then expected.

Like I said. If he isn't very good, then this is a career making 3 months even though he is just a fill in throw dummy. But if he is legit and he is the future 125, then it's a waste of a redshirt to give them 3-4 extra points every few dual meets. fOSU is going to roll everyone in the Big Ten besides PSU, Mich and maybe ourselves? They really don't need him in there anyway
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Ryan has Decatur and Heinselman coming in next year. It is clear Ryan does not see Koontz as the long term 125 pounder on this team.
 
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jvclark said:
Yeah Spoons I get it. And you might be right. But if he isn't any good, then where is the talent that you are saying(and I would agree btw) that fOSU should have waiting in the wings?

Maybe Ryan hasn't recruited 125 very well? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Maybe Ryan has an incoming 2018 freshman that he has planned on wrestling as a true freshman all along once Nato is done? Or maybe a lot of people have underestimated this kid Koontz and he is better then expected.

Like I said. If he isn't very good, then this is a career making 3 months even though he is just a fill in throw dummy. But if he is legit and he is the future 125, then it's a waste of a redshirt to give them 3-4 extra points every few dual meets. fOSU is going to roll everyone in the Big Ten besides PSU, Mich and maybe ourselves? They really don't need him in there anyway
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They have the luxury of kicking that can down the road. A few dual points now are worth more than the 0 points scored by the collective 125s that were redshirted at the same time and not starters 4 years from now.
Some time between now and 4 years from now Ryan will look to upgrade 125. If Ryan thought he found his guy there wouldn't be so many 125 tOSU recruits. I doubt he minds betting against either of those as the starter he can't upgrade for the next 4 years. If he's wrong it will be more of a pleasant surprise than a roster management error.
 
crablegs1 said:
Ryan has Decatur and Heinselman coming in next year. It is clear Ryan does not see Koontz as the long term 125 pounder on this team.
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th
 
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jvclark said:
Yeah Spoons I get it. And you might be right. But if he isn't any good, then where is the talent that you are saying(and I would agree btw) that fOSU should have waiting in the wings?

Maybe Ryan hasn't recruited 125 very well? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Maybe Ryan has an incoming 2018 freshman that he has planned on wrestling as a true freshman all along once Nato is done? Or maybe a lot of people have underestimated this kid Koontz and he is better then expected.

Like I said. If he isn't very good, then this is a career making 3 months even though he is just a fill in throw dummy. But if he is legit and he is the future 125, then it's a waste of a redshirt to give them 3-4 extra points every few dual meets. fOSU is going to roll everyone in the Big Ten besides PSU, Mich and maybe ourselves? They really don't need him in there anyway
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None of this means that a Koontz couldn’t surprise but top shelf programs generally do not project recruits of their rankings to be long term lineup options.
 
I think that U23's is much more beneficial for most D1 AA's than the start of the season. I think that guys benefit most from preparing for an extremely tough competition as compared to preparing for the IC duals. Just that you train differently when you know you're going to be wrestling potentially some world/olympic medalists vs your typical D1 starter.

I'd love to see all of our guys who are returning AA's in the future wrestle in it.
 
DayHawk18 said:
I think that U23's is much more beneficial for most D1 AA's than the start of the season. I think that guys benefit most from preparing for an extremely tough competition as compared to preparing for the IC duals. Just that you train differently when you know you're going to be wrestling potentially some world/olympic medalists vs your typical D1 starter.

I'd love to see all of our guys who are returning AA's in the future wrestle in it.
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We discussed at length a week or two ago. Some feel the way that you do and others would rather have our guys taking care of school and training for the college folkstyle season. Good points on both sides.
 
SPOONER said:
We discussed at length a week or two ago. Some feel the way that you do and others would rather have our guys taking care of school and training for the college folkstyle season. Good points on both sides.
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If you can't handle the traveling for this event academically, then you've probably got some bigger issues.
 
I was super bored. I had a flat tire. I was in a rental car with no spare and had to wait 3+ hours for a tow truck. My cell phone and this forum was helping to pass the time. As a result, I delved in everywhere I could. I was on a section of highway that cuts through a military base. So, I didn't even have the option of walking to the nearest exit and sitting down at a McDonalds or something, as the highway was lined with fencing, complete with barbed wire on top and I'm sure some other security features I am not aware of. Although, I did see a moose on the side of the same highway, so some openings must exist. Fort Richardson Army Base and Elmendorf Air Force Base if you are curious.

Alas, haters gonna hate. I should know that by now. Complain when people don't talk wrestling. Complain when people talk too much wrestling.

I thought the Koontz bit was interesting given the earlier discussion of them as recruits about this time last year.

For the record, I don't drink coffee at all.
 
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jvclark said:
Yeah Spoons I get it. And you might be right. But if he isn't any good, then where is the talent that you are saying(and I would agree btw) that fOSU should have waiting in the wings?

Maybe Ryan hasn't recruited 125 very well? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Maybe Ryan has an incoming 2018 freshman that he has planned on wrestling as a true freshman all along once Nato is done? Or maybe a lot of people have underestimated this kid Koontz and he is better then expected.

Like I said. If he isn't very good, then this is a career making 3 months even though he is just a fill in throw dummy. But if he is legit and he is the future 125, then it's a waste of a redshirt to give them 3-4 extra points every few dual meets. fOSU is going to roll everyone in the Big Ten besides PSU, Mich and maybe ourselves? They really don't need him in there anyway
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You and I sure don't agree on what a red shirt should be used for. The kid gets to wrestle under the big lights. The team can take care of any issues from the move in three or four years.

There should be no season down the road more important than the current one. Put the best team you have on the mat and quit reading tea leaves.
 
el dub said:
You and I sure don't agree on what a red shirt should be used for. The kid gets to wrestle under the big lights. The team can take care of any issues from the move in three or four years.

There should be no season down the road more important than the current one. Put the best team you have on the mat and quit reading tea leaves.
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Plus they have Heinselmen coming in 2018 and Decatur coming in 2019. That is the #1 ranked wrestler at 113 and 106 currently.

Plus transfer Hunter Lucas is eligible second semester I believe.

If I was him, I would jump at the opportunity for a chance in the starting lineup. The redshirt season can be used during a season later in his career when an opportunity to wrestle in the starting lineup does not exist.
 
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el dub said:
You and I sure don't agree on what a red shirt should be used for. The kid gets to wrestle under the big lights. The team can take care of any issues from the move in three or four years.

There should be no season down the road more important than the current one. Put the best team you have on the mat and quit reading tea leaves.
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If we sat down for a beer, I am sure we wouldn't agree on a lot of things. With that said, I have never said once that he should or shouldn't redshirt. Let's get that straight.

With that said, what should a redshirt be used for? To get a kid physically and mentally ready to wrestle D1 for a Big Ten school? Sure, of course. To help a kid get acclimated to school as an 18 year old kid? Sure, that too.

When should one be pulled? To help a team win a title? Sure, of course. When its the best thing for a kid and he is ready? Well again of course.

I am sure there are other reasons for both. As I was in my previous posts, I am still NOT saying he should or shouldn't redshirt, just discussing the benefits of both sides.

When Gable pulled Mcilravy's shirt in the middle of his freshman year, he didnt do it to win a few dual meets, he did it to win nationals. Same thing for Cael and Retherford when he was a freshman. Now, before you jump all over me, I am in NO WAY comparing those two all time greats to this kid Koontz. In fact, I know very little about him, save some ideas from earlier in this thread. If this young man stepped up and said I want to wrestle, even if I know I am just a stand in for 2-3 months? Well kudos for him and wanting to help his team. But maybe he has aspirations for more.

Again Dub, just talking, playing devils advocate.
 
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