Traditional PG
- Thread starter ZumaHawk
- Start date
Ya, it seems like the recruiting maybe hasn't been so bad after all.
Come on man, did it look like we lacked talent tonight? Did it look like we didn't play any defense tonight?
The way the season has gone so far has been disappointing to everyone...hell I predicted 16-18 wins and I was feeling bad after losing to whoever they were, but if you can't see the potential and the young talent this team has you need to look in the mirror for answers.
Come on Scout you started a post on Morris gonna blow by for layups.....4 for 15. " Changes nothing "? Hawks win!!! Stir the pot some more! Lol.
I mean it doesn't change my opinion. Morris had zero help in the paint. They got a total of 10 pts from one forward spot and 10 pts from Burton. We won't see any BIG teams like that. I'll have a thread at the end of conference play for you guys. Then we'll see who's right and who's wrong.
We played defense tonight. I don't know where that's been up until this point. I see plenty of potential with Moss at the 3 and Pemsl at the 4/5. Bohannon played well tonight but nothing special. He'll have his ups and downs but I think he's got upside. Just not the kind that will get us a BIG title.
Here's the deal Scout.....we could go back and forth about this every other game based on the results we get.....and that doesn't mean squat WHICH is the whole point. This is a young team, they are going to be inconsistent. This season will be up and down, but the bottom line is there is talent there. If there wasn't we don't beat ISU tonight. This might not be the best ISU team there is, but they have some talent. WE couldn't beat these guys with a Licksnyder squad..... What I am saying is if we lacked talent, this team would not look good AT ALL, at anytime, but because of youth and the subsequent inconsistency the talent will only show up some nights or at some points during a game. IF, and it's a huge if, this team jells defensively and starts to play with some consistency they might be better than any of us imagined after the first 9 games of the year.
I never said there wasn't talent on this team. I said there isn't enough talent to win a BIG title. There isn't enough talent coming in to win a BIG title. Fran will never get us a BIG title if he continues to recruit the way he does. He will never win a BIG title if he can't land a BIG quality PG. Bohannon isn't a BIG quality PG, IMO. Neither is Williams. Neither is Connor Mc. I can watch this team improve and win games but I can't get excited about the possibility of winning a BIG title when it's clear, compared to the rest of the BIG, that we don't have enough talent. I hope Fran manages to prove me wrong. I'll change my avatar to a crow pie if he does.
My apologies, I missed the B10 title portion of the discussion. That said, there is NO WAY a person can really tell that we don't have the talent to win a B10 title......unless you were thinking this year. If that's the case, then I don't think anyone would disagree with you. I have heard no one argue that we would win the B10 this year.
Here's where I would agree with you......if next year we brought in a Juco PG that was really really really good, that might very will be the missing piece for this team to get to the B10 title.
Where I am really up beat about the future is in our young talent. Moss, Pemsl, Williams, Baer, Dailey, all have tremendous talent. Wagner has the athletic ability to play at a much higher level than he currently is, and there seems to be signs that he is heading in that direction. Even Bohanan has more talent and ability than I anticipated....and although he doesn't appear to be a top level B10 point guard, I can't say that he won't be by the time he is a senior. And then there is Tyler Cook.
I am very encouraged by the talent on this team, and the direction the program is heading with the understanding that this year is going to be a roller coaster ride that in all probability won't end in the NCAA tournament....but that is not a certainty yet either.
Next year, I think we will be in the upper half of the B10 and a tournament team with a shot at a B10 title for the two years after that.
I want a BIG title. 8 other BIG teams have won a title since I saw our last one when I was 9 years old. Wisconsin went to back to back Final Fours for God's sake! I'm tired of the excuses. I'm tired of the mediocre coaching and the mediocre recruiting we have had for the past 25 years. Wisconsin has shown that it can be done and you don't have to be a blue blood to do it. Hire me a coach that can get it done or keep looking until you find one.
Hawks would be a lot better team with Morris, even if he had a bad game tonight. I like Bohannon as a player, but he might be more of a shooting guard than a ball handler. When pressured, he regularly picks up his dribble, and he is a step slow guarding better PGs. Playing Moss seems to have helped our perimeter defense.
I want...I want...try "we"...Iowa BB isn't about a refugee from scout.
I'm tired...I'm tired ....try "we"
Hire me a coach...what you own something? What have "you" invested in Iowa BB? You are one of the very first to start tossing stones when things don't go YOUR way
you see the "I"? and you see the "me"?....this isn't about the fortunes or miss-fortunes of Iowa BB ...its about a poster who has self ordained himself. If you really have the expertise & background you claim you have..you would fully understand what being a student-athlete is all about. Its not about you.
We all want a B1G title...just some of us maintain our support of this coach and the talent he has brought in...some of us actually see the potential and have the patience to allow it to develop....instead of throwing rocks at it. What good does that do?
Just so you know, here's a not all-encompassing list of our multi-year PG starters that never won a regular season Big Ten Title.
BJ Armstrong
Andre Woolridge
Dean Oliver
Jeff Horner
Mike Gesell
Having said that, we do need to improve our ball handling when being pressured. When ISU got into desperation mode at the end we struggled a bit including Jok dribbling into the sideline for a turnover.
BJ Armstrong
Andre Woolridge
Dean Oliver
Jeff Horner
Mike Gesell
Having said that, we do need to improve our ball handling when being pressured. When ISU got into desperation mode at the end we struggled a bit including Jok dribbling into the sideline for a turnover.
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What you just provided were the names of PGs on some of the best teams Iowa has fielded in the past 30 years!!!! Care to compile a total win % of the Iowa seasons those players were involved in? I love assists because that's what traditional PGs do. You're giving me a nice one here. Thanks.
P. S. If you don't want to add up the combined wins and losses of the seasons those guys played in, I'll do it for you but you'll have to give me an hour.
Obviously.....so take the cop out and then complain without a realistic solution to what you perceive the problem to be.
That said, I understand why you don't have an answer. It's because there isn't a good one. If you actually take the time to contemplate that instead of just venting you would start to look at your position differently....or maybe not
My point is that, yes the goal is to win a Big Ten regular season title and then have success in the NCAAs, but doing that is very hard. We've had a few of the best PGs in team history that never accomplished that. Ronnie Lester is the last one to do it, aka a once or twice in a lifetime player for Iowa.
People shouldn't be talking about using winning a regular season title as the only benchmark for how good a PG is. Heck, Bohannon is only 10 games into his career, and just like the other freshmen we've seen significant progress in those 10 games. Who knows how good he could be by the end of the season, let alone in 3 years.
As I alluded to earlier, the thing that we're missing is someone that can dribble out of trouble when under pressure which is usually the traditional PG that people are looking for.
That's my benchmark, you don't have to like it. Or is 36 years not long enough to wait for a BIG title?
Tom Davis should have been fired for bot winning a BIG title or going to a Final Four by the time Raveling's recruits graduated.
You brought up the traditional PG names, now let me provide the win% associated with and without them.
With the players you named=408-214
The seasons without = 176-168
It's not a cop out. I could throw out a few obvious names but I don't know:
Who's on their staffs
Who's likely to come with them
Who's their best recruiting assistant
What areas they recruit well and why
Are they likely to stay or use us as a stepping stone.
Those are just some of the questions off the top of my head, that I don't have answers to. I'm sure there are 100 more that a good AD knows to ask. If you want to pay me AD money, I'll get the answers to those questions and 100 more. You send the checks and I'll get started ASAP.
Agree. He'll continue to develop. Not consistent from outside yet (2 good shooting games in 10). Absolutely cannot finish at the rim and needs to quit wasting shots on trying to do so. One thing to penetrate and kick it out, but he is not doing much of that. Not great defensively, but improving. Need a PG who can break down the defense when needed. With all that being said, I think Jordan is pretty hard nosed and not afraid to the shot. Always need players like that.
Put me in the camp that jbo is a shooting guard and not a pg. He isn't quick enough to beat anyone off the dribble. We need a quick guy to penetrate and kick out or finish at the rim.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a true/elite PG. That said, Fran likes to run a motion offense and it's not quite as critical in that scenario. What we have to have, unlike last year, is someone who can take and make shots to keep the defense honest and JBo certainly seems like he can fill that role.
I was more concerned last night in that we still seemed to struggle a bit with full court pressure getting the ball up. That's where the super quick ball handler would come in handy.
