Tyler Cook
- Thread starter Eternal Return
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But Connor is mostly playing the 4 right now which is what leads to the spacing on the court. If Cook is in the game at the 4 then the lineup is Bakari, Frederick, Weiskamp, Cook, and Garza, and then the spacing you're talking about is gone. It's the same if Connor is playing point with Frederick and Weiskamp at the 2 and 3 with Cook and Garza at the 4 and 5. Since Cook has no outside game, it would be Garza who would be on the perimeter or in the high post to let Cook man the block and Garza doesn't have Connor's abilities on the perimeter, especially his ball handling assets.
It's as if you guys think Fran, or any other coach, would stick to the exact same offensive sets regardless of personnel.
If both Garza and Cook were on the team this year, one guy wouldn't necessarily have to be roaming the perimeter. High/low screens, baseline screens, etc would be utilized.
In addition, it's like you give absolutely no credit for the improvement of players with a whole year of practice and games. The argument I'm seeing is "these players are static and the difference is just that we lost one player. Now we are better."
Furthermore, we have played some good teams but the Big Ten season awaits. That's a different animal. You always need good guard play but it is also more physical and grinding depending on the opponent. Having two big bodies with skills would be very beneficial. Losing an All Big Ten player is not addition by subtraction.
If both Garza and Cook were on the team this year, one guy wouldn't necessarily have to be roaming the perimeter. High/low screens, baseline screens, etc would be utilized.
In addition, it's like you give absolutely no credit for the improvement of players with a whole year of practice and games. The argument I'm seeing is "these players are static and the difference is just that we lost one player. Now we are better."
Furthermore, we have played some good teams but the Big Ten season awaits. That's a different animal. You always need good guard play but it is also more physical and grinding depending on the opponent. Having two big bodies with skills would be very beneficial. Losing an All Big Ten player is not addition by subtraction.
Garza is as good or better of a shooter than Connor is. The notion that he can’t float out and knock down a jumper if Cook were driving, just like Connor could, is ridiculous. Spacing with those two was not an issue, reflected in Iowa’s solid offensive numbers.
I would also say that, two games into Big Ten play, it is too early to make the assertion that Iowa is better this year than last year. If they are, I would point to improved guard play and improved perimeter defense as the reason why. Not Cook leaving. But we can agree to disagree
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Last year when Connor had the ball on the perimeter, defenders basically sagged off him as if he was a post player... so that “spacing” didn’t exist last year. Our “end of the game” lineup frequently included Garza, Cook, and CM, three sub-30% three point shooters. I promise that if we a) had Fredrick b) had Moss shooting more consistently or c) had Connor shooting more consistently last year, these spacing issues would be an afterthought. Cook and Garza could easily take on three guys and still score. Both require double teams.
Evelyn wouldn’t be starting if Cook were here. Connor would
Also, as RocknRoll said, defense is pretty much the biggest issue with this team under Fran. It’s a rarity that his teams struggle to come by points. And while our defense last year was problematic as a whole, the biggest issue was with our perimeter defense, letting guards penetrate the lane. That has improved this year, and not as a result of losing Cook
Saying that Cook inhibited Garza because he ate low post space is not hatred, it is an observation, and one based on a season of watching. You are awful sensitive.
So if you wanted to play Cook at the 5 and Baer at the 4 last year where would you have put Garza? On the bench? I get what you are saying (don't totally agree) but were we not an overtime away from being a sweet 16 team last year w/Cook and Garza on the court together? And it's also total BS from some of you that claim Cook just wanted to be an NBA player so he just did what he wanted. Guessing the scouts told Cook he needed to work on his handles and jump shot. And I'm sure most on the board would agree. And it was clear he did that. Was he great at it? No. Was he clearly better than he had been? Yes. Of course he tried to diversify his game. His goal, as he was a top 100 kid I believe, was always to try and make the league. It's not mutually exclusive. Luka has had remarkable improvement from last year to this year. That doesn't mean he worked harder than Cook did over the Summer. It's been great for the team. And great for Luka.
You certainly lost me at "Frederick not being much of a plus over Moss. CJ is a major upgrade on defense, and area where the Hawks needed the most help. He is already showing he can be a more consistent scorer, and you can just see the kid is a winner. Moss had plenty of skills, but seemed to lack confidence in himself, as was never an alpha dog even in high school, so I'm not convinced he has the makeup to be a guy who is capable of stepping up in big games against top teams.
Our starting lineup last year was Weiskamp, Moss, Bohannon, Cook and Garza. That's still a lineup of 3 guys that could stretch the floor in Weiskamp, Moss and Bohannon. There have been some things that people are critical of Fran but designing offenses is rarely one of them. Baer was the 1st guy off the bench, and he could also stretch the floor and then Conor. I'm going to give huge props to Frederick, as he has more than filled in for Moss. I can't believe the confidence that he plays with. If Bohannon was still available we could really stretch the floor, even though he was hurt you still at least had to respect his range and willingness to shoot. Moss looks totally lost at this point at KU. If he doesn't hit a 3 right away he's out, and doesn't get much time. I"m sure he will have a few games where he will help them win as they still need shooting. Losing my way a little but just don't see how you argue we are better off w/out a guy who's already seen action in the league this year.
Samesies.
Iowa is clearly a Tourney team right now, but with TC, they are top 10 in the country right now. Iowa would have 2 more wins right now.
Playing a smaller quicker lineup is definitely one of the reasons the defense has improved.
Iowa is better on both ends of the court this year.
To me its obvious why. Better shooters, better post scoring, better spacing and better defense.
If you think those things would be the same with two guys who primarily need to post up on the court together then I don't know what to tell you.
Theres a reason most teams in college and the nba aren't playing two posts anymore.
I never claimed otherwise. My claim was that perimeter defense, specifically at the point of attack (PG and SG) was our biggest defensive issue last year, and that Iowa’s defense had improved at both those positions. Opposing PGs have lived in the lane the past few years, and it throws off our entire defense, regardless of who the other defenders are on the floor. I wouldn’t say that TC, although he had his struggles, was one of our biggest defensive liabilities last year
IMO that was Iowa best lineup last year, but based entirely on defense. I would have rotated Garza and Cook.at the 5 and used them together sparingly.
Yes I know they're two of the best offensive players but they were also an atrocious defensive combination.
In general I'm a believer that playing two posts doesn't work well in most situations.
I feel like most Iowa fans don't watch other basketball.
But when you play zone like Iowa generally does, everyone is a perimeter defender except the middle man.
And most teams are playing 4 perimeter guys so you need 4 guys capable of defending on the perimeter and to be really good you need all 5 to be able to.
Okay except that Cook was Iowa’s best rebounder, T1st on the team in defensive win shares, and 3rd on the team in defensive box plus/minus. On what basis are you making the claim that, because Iowa has another guard playing defense, they are better off defensively without Cook?
I don’t think you give Connor enough credit for dramatic steps forward he’s taken on both ends of the court, Fredrick being a substantial upgrade over Moss on both ends of the floor, and Garza’s being much improved on defense also. The team didn’t just automatically get better in a vacuum because Cook left. They got better and took steps forward... there doesn’t need to be a correlation.
By the way, I watch a substantial amount of basketball outside of Iowa. Which is why I know that you put your best players on the court and make other teams adjust to you, not you adjust to other teams. Iowa with Cook this year would be killer
The bolded is not a valid rebuttal because I never made that argument.
Obviously teams improve for multiple reasons.
We've each made our points and aren't going to change the others mind so agreed to disagree.
The bolded was my entire argument this thread. OP posed that losing Cook was addition by subtraction, and all of my responses have been centered around that position. So now I guess I don’t even know what we disagree on... but do agree that this discussion has run its course
How many years did we collapse at the end of the season after having great starts?
Hmm... sorry, I could have sworn he started against Villanova. Just checked. He didn’t. Not sure why I thought that. Sorry.
Cook would not have fed Garza the ball like the rest of this team has. Period.
And all the missed bunnies that rolled over the hoop had me doing the same thing! Geez, he's gone, doing what he always wanted to do, playing professional basketball.
He had his flaws as well as everyone else that played during the last 3 years and continuing to try make a statement that Iowa would be better with him then without him, is nothing but a mute point! You can't convince everyone to agree or disagree.
Just the absence of Cook has opened up the offense to allow Garzilla room to score in a variety of ways that no one knew was possible. Let's just enjoy what we have and embrace this team for what they are. Hard working kids that seem to be having fun playing this game.
But, if it makes some on here happy to continue to beat a dead horse, carry on.
We couldn’t do it last year because of Fran not recruiting guards. We had 4 guards playing last year ( if you count Moss as a guard—which he is not, and count Weiskamp as a guard).
Yeah I've always thought of Moss as a center too.
As much as we loved to criticize Cook for not being an absolute beast all the time, he was a great player and would help this team out this year a lot and same with Moss. He would have been a great 6 man for the hawks this year.
I would love to still have Cook on this team but seldom on the floor with Garza...
TC was a great Hawk and incredibly fun to watch. He’s also been a great cheerleader for the Hawks since his playing days.
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