UPDATED: Official John Higgins Receives Death Threats & Fake Business Reviews from Kentucky fans

[ThrowBones92]

I don't question the "honesty and integrity" of the officials as much as I do their competency. You just can't ignore half a team calling a TO, which everyone on the TV broadcast can hear, or be standing 3 feet away from a players trying to tie up the opposition player while he is out of bounds. It cost us a game and perhaps a spot in the NCAA's (and therefore, some serious dollars). Either you're trying to directly influence the outcome of the game or you're incompetent.

I can understand that. If you have a link to the clip I'd like to take a look.

I do think it's a stretch to say that officials not granting a time out in a game on February 8th that went to two overtimes and was decided by 11 points was what cost Iowa the game. It was a key play, yes, did it decide the game? No way. I also think it's probably not what kept Iowa out of the tournament. I understand that timing was really bad of the apparent missed TO call, but I'd say the losses to UNO and Nebraska had more to do with Iowa not being included in the tournament field than the loss to a pretty good Minnesota team.

I realize this probably sounds like an excuse, but its not. It's based on my own personal experience. When you are close to a player or group of players - inside of two arms reaches, it because extremely difficult to referee anything other that the object your focusing on. The OB call is one referee's call, he's the only one with the angle to see it and its his sideline responsibility. If you want to see a referee taking a shot on a sideline OB call and missing, look at Syracuse vs Gonzaga in the regional last year. The official took his shot, thought he was helping with the correct call even though he was calling out of his primary. Turns out he was wrong, and it cost him the Final Four. I know this for a fact. So before people go advocating for "one of the three officials" had to see it - most plays outside the lane are refereed by one official, especially if its not a shot attempt or if it isn't in the area where primary coverage areas intersect. They were busy refereeing what they could see. They aren't looking to help with an OB call on that play. And they shouldn't be. That's in the hands of one guy, and if he has players in his lap, 3 ft from him, it's easy to miss when you're trying to make sure the players aren't fouling. It SHOULD have been caught, but it wasn't, and I'm explaining why missed calls happen, not making excuses. None of us want to miss a call. We all want to be perfect. But it happens. And it will continue to happen.

 

[Franisdaman]

Yeah, there's the Iowa/UNI game, and several other times...enough where I read an article about how much he was hated. I'm not sure I get where he's so good at his job.

Note that he is working the Final Four (not sure which of the 3 games that remain)

 

[Franisdaman]

As someone who is a fan of Kentucky - I am truly embarrassed by the small percentage of our fan base that gets so emotionally invested in our program that they personally attack a ref.

That being said - the major issue that I see is that there are way too many refs - in pretty much any sport - that ref for ATTENTION. Instead of just calling the game as they see it, they use the position as a chance to be noticed. Whether it is at the NCAA level or the youth league level, some officials want to be "the show" instead of just doing their jobs. Way too often, an official wants to "prove a point" to a school, coach or player for a prior mistake instead of just calling the game as it happens. I know it is human nature to not "forget", but it's a referee's job to do so. When you are an invested fan, an alum, or even more so, a parent of an athlete, it is really hard not to take these calls personally.

I don't have the answers on how to change things, but some of the responsibility has to fall on the refs themselves.

When Fox got 2 quick fouls in the 1st half, I immediately thought of Josh Jackson of Kansas, who also got 2 quick fouls in their Elite 8 loss; that really hurt Kansas. Kentucky having 3 guys with 2 fouls in the first half hurt them too; and then to lose by just 2 points has to be a punch to the gut.

So what was the point that Higgins was trying to make to Cal? As you might have seen above, Iowa has a history with Higgins as well.

Did you see that Higgins is working the Final 4 (not sure which of the 3 games that remain)? Is he considered that good by the NCAA? Yikes!

 

[Franisdaman]

I can understand that. If you have a link to the clip I'd like to take a look.

I do think it's a stretch to say that officials not granting a time out in a game on February 8th that went to two overtimes and was decided by 11 points was what cost Iowa the game. It was a key play, yes, did it decide the game? No way. I also think it's probably not what kept Iowa out of the tournament. I understand that timing was really bad of the apparent missed TO call, but I'd say the losses to UNO and Nebraska had more to do with Iowa not being included in the tournament field than the loss to a pretty good Minnesota team.

I realize this probably sounds like an excuse, but its not. It's based on my own personal experience. When you are close to a player or group of players - inside of two arms reaches, it because extremely difficult to referee anything other that the object your focusing on. The OB call is one referee's call, he's the only one with the angle to see it and its his sideline responsibility. If you want to see a referee taking a shot on a sideline OB call and missing, look at Syracuse vs Gonzaga in the regional last year. The official took his shot, thought he was helping with the correct call even though he was calling out of his primary. Turns out he was wrong, and it cost him the Final Four. I know this for a fact. So before people go advocating for "one of the three officials" had to see it - most plays outside the lane are refereed by one official, especially if its not a shot attempt or if it isn't in the area where primary coverage areas intersect. They were busy refereeing what they could see. They aren't looking to help with an OB call on that play. And they shouldn't be. That's in the hands of one guy, and if he has players in his lap, 3 ft from him, it's easy to miss when you're trying to make sure the players aren't fouling. It SHOULD have been caught, but it wasn't, and I'm explaining why missed calls happen, not making excuses. None of us want to miss a call. We all want to be perfect. But it happens. And it will continue to happen.

Its at stretch to think that the ref missing the time out AND missing the Gopher's foot being out of bounds when he granted the jump ball did not cost Iowa the game? I completely disagree.

Here is the deal. Iowa should have gotten the ball if the ref had granted EITHER THE TIME OUT OR HAD SEEN THE FOOT OUT OF BOUNDS. Iowa was up 2 with under 20 seconds left. Iowa had 3 guys on the court shooting 88% or better from the FT line. Iowa was in GREAT SHAPE to win that game on the road. Instead, Minny was given the ball, they score with 8 seconds to go, and the game goes to OT.

A road win at Minny would have put Iowa in the NCAA tournament.

 

[Ronman]

I do think it's a stretch to say that officials not granting a time out in a game on February 8th that went to two overtimes and was decided by 11 points was what cost Iowa the game. It was a key play, yes, did it decide the game? No way.

Twenty two seconds left in the game and we had the ball and a two point lead. Ellingson, the kid that was "tied up," had not missed a free throw all season. The game might not have been won, but it was well in hand. Either way, we should have had the ball back and a chance to run more time off the clock before they had to foul us again.

 

[Franisdaman]

You don't know what you're talking about. Officiating, overall, at the college level is as good as it's ever been. The challenges that continue to make it the most difficult sport in the world to officiate are as follows:
1) the size, speed and athleticism of players is better than it's ever been. And it will continue to increase. Training the human brain and body to keep up is going to continue to be a major challenge
2) The development of high-definition TV, zoom and slow-mo replay - now more than ever before have fans had access to 7 angles of a play in slow-mo high def. The more this capability develops, the harder it will be on officials. Fans don't understand their angles many times are better than the official has to work with. And he/she has to make a decision in a split second and live with the call/no-call. Fans get to see plays 2,3,4,5 times at all possible angles in slow motion and with full zoom. Most people don't have a clue what this is like until they try to call a game at full speed with no help from multiple tv angles.
3) The growth of cable TV - now pretty much all games, even at the D2 level, are televised or aired via stream. More games are being watched, so more issues are being noticed
3) different crews work together every single night - which is different from football - makes floor coverage, call consistency, teamwork a new challenge every night.
4) The money involved in the game now is huge - the coaches are themselves the most recognizable individual at major programs. College basketball is a coach's game, while the NBA is a player's game. If you think they continually try to exert influence and control on the game and the way it is called so that it can be called to match their coaching style, you're not paying attention.

Big money raises the stakes for everyone. If the fans, coaches, players, the NCAA want the best possible called game, they need to be pushing for professionally trained and paid officials. The vast majority of us work day jobs because we can't make working even 30 D1 games work as a full time job. The NBA does an excellent job training officials. The NCAA needs to figure out how to do this if they want to keep up with the challenges.

I laugh every time I hear someone talk about the honestly or integrity of officials. They have no idea what they're talking about. They race to their tinfoil hats every time they think someone got screwed. It MUST be intentional. Very little room for error or mistake. Our integrity is literally all we have. If it came to light that someone was deliberately screwing people, they'd be done immediately. While this has happened in the past, and it doesn't mean it isn't/won't happen again, the chances of this being the case with any more than 1 or 2 so insane to even entertain.

great post. most calls are not reviewable. however, fans get to review controversial plays many times on instant replay. and like you said, they slow it way down, and then they show more than one angle. and a ref has to make a split second, bang bang decision.

i still don't know how refs get block / charges right; these gusy are coming in so fast and the refs have to see if the defender is in position and outide the restricted area; not an easy job at all

 

[Franisdaman]

I would love to see the evidence you've found of this happening. If it's based on your "experience", then it's all conjecture. A coach may have treated me poorly in the past, but it has nothing to do with the way I'm going to interact and treat him the next time we cross paths. Any good official understands two things:
1) professionalism is a must - you don't hold grudges
2) its not personal, even if the coach tries to make it personal - if the coach makes it personal, you penalize and move on. 99.9999% of the time, coaches are trying to coach and win. Not show you up. If they show you up, you penalize, and you wash your hands of it.

Again, EVIDENCE is appreciated of the "proving a point" you see "way too often" at the NCAA level.

Just want to remind everyone that Fran has taken Teddy V's referee'ing personally. Iowa has made it clear that it does not want Teddy V ref'ing its games and its been, what , 4 years since he has?

 

[ThrowBones92]

Twenty two seconds left in the game and we had the ball and a two point lead. Ellingson, the kid that was "tied up," had not missed a free throw all season. The game might not have been won, but it was well in hand. Either way, we should have had the ball back and a chance to run more time off the clock before they had to foul us again.

Well in hand? 22 seconds with a two point lead? I disagree. In the college game with stopped clock after made baskets, to call this a game that was well in hand like you would have sealed the deal for sure if the timeout was granted is making a number of big assumption. I don't care what % your players shoot free throws or anything like that. up 2 with the ball with 22 seconds left very easily could have turned into up 3 and playing defense with 20 seconds left. That, by no means, is a safe lead. it's sort of like Kentucky wanting to blame officials for the loss but will fail to mention that, despite whatever they think happened to them, they tied the game with a few seconds left and then proceeded to allow a wide open 15 ft jumper for the win...

Listen, if you want to say the game was well in hand with a two point lead and the ball with 22 seconds left, which I don't know anyone that would say that the game is close to over at that point... you assume Iowa could have held that lead. But in the same breath you blame the official for missing a call that cost Iowa the game WHILE YOU STILL HAD THE LEAD, Iowa likely would have had to get at least one stop either way to win the game, and they didn't do that. Even if Iowa makes both free throws with 20 seconds left after being fouled, they STILL have to get a stop, AND make more free throws to seal it. that call in no way cost Iowa the game because Iowa didn't have the game won.

Appreciate the healthy discussion without getting into name calling. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[ThrowBones92]

great post. most calls are not reviewable. however, fans get to review controversial plays many times on instant replay. and like you said, they slow it way down, and then they show more than one angle. and a ref has to make a split second, bang bang decision.

i still don't know how refs get block / charges right; these gusy are coming in so fast and the refs have to see if the defender is in position and outide the restricted area; not an easy job at all

I appreciate you saying that.
To be honest, the block charge, IF you get your eyes in the right spot, can be a pretty straight forward call except for those 50/50 plays where it's nearly impossible to tell if your secondary defender was set prior to the offensive player leaving the ground. The challenge is in disciplining yourself as the lead referee to pick up the secondary defender while the drive is occurring. you have to trust that your trail and center officials will referee the drive so that you can find the secondary defender and assess legal guarding position. If you stick to your discipline, it's not the toughest call save the 50/50 where it really could go either way. With those, you just hope your crew that night matches the 50/50 call so that we have blocks(or charges) on both ends of the court, which can be tough because each play is different and also because you have different officials calling the play. I may have a 50/50 block charge and call it a block, and I'm hoping my partners recognized it and will match my call on the other end if we have a similar play. Not matching those calls is what drives coaches nuts, and sometimes it's really hard to do. It takes a lot of experience and an understanding of game management.

In my opinion, the most difficult call on a routine basis to get right is out of bounds involving two more players. It took me discussing it with a couple of NBA referees to affirm my feelings about that.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Well in hand? 22 seconds with a two point lead? you guys have to be joking. In the college game with stopped clock after made baskets, to call this a game that was well in hand like you would have sealed the deal for sure if the timeout was granted is making a number of big assumption. I don't care what % your players shoot free throws or anything like that. up 2 with the ball with 22 seconds left very easily could have turned into up 3 and playing defense with 20 seconds left. That, by no means, is a safe lead. it's sort of like Kentucky wanting to blame officials for the loss but will fail to mention that, despite whatever they think happened to them, they tied the game with a few seconds left and then proceeded to allow a wide open 15 ft jumper for the win...

Listen, if you want to say the game was well in hand with a two point lead and the ball with 22 seconds left, which I don't know anyone that would say that the game is close to over at that point... you assume Iowa could have held that lead. But in the same breath you blame the official for missing a call that cost Iowa the game WHILE YOU STILL HAD THE LEAD, Iowa likely would have had to get at least one stop either way to win the game, and they didn't do that. Even if Iowa makes both free throws with 20 seconds left after being fouled, they STILL have to get a stop, AND make more free throws to seal it. that call in no way cost Iowa the game because Iowa didn't have the game won.

I believe the above posters are wrong bones. It was around 10-12 seconds left Iowa should have been awarded the ball the ball out of bounds. I don't know where they are getting 22 seconds.

 

[ThrowBones92]

The above posters are wrong bones. It was 10 seconds left Iowa should have been awarded the ball the ball out of bounds. I don't know where they are getting 22 seconds.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[DanL53]

I can understand that. If you have a link to the clip I'd like to take a look.

I do think it's a stretch to say that officials not granting a time out in a game on February 8th that went to two overtimes and was decided by 11 points was what cost Iowa the game. It was a key play, yes, did it decide the game? No way. I also think it's probably not what kept Iowa out of the tournament. I understand that timing was really bad of the apparent missed TO call, but I'd say the losses to UNO and Nebraska had more to do with Iowa not being included in the tournament field than the loss to a pretty good Minnesota team.

I realize this probably sounds like an excuse, but its not. It's based on my own personal experience. When you are close to a player or group of players - inside of two arms reaches, it because extremely difficult to referee anything other that the object your focusing on. The OB call is one referee's call, he's the only one with the angle to see it and its his sideline responsibility. If you want to see a referee taking a shot on a sideline OB call and missing, look at Syracuse vs Gonzaga in the regional last year. The official took his shot, thought he was helping with the correct call even though he was calling out of his primary. Turns out he was wrong, and it cost him the Final Four. I know this for a fact. So before people go advocating for "one of the three officials" had to see it - most plays outside the lane are refereed by one official, especially if its not a shot attempt or if it isn't in the area where primary coverage areas intersect. They were busy refereeing what they could see. They aren't looking to help with an OB call on that play. And they shouldn't be. That's in the hands of one guy, and if he has players in his lap, 3 ft from him, it's easy to miss when you're trying to make sure the players aren't fouling. It SHOULD have been caught, but it wasn't, and I'm explaining why missed calls happen, not making excuses. None of us want to miss a call. We all want to be perfect. But it happens. And it will continue to happen.

You were doing really good and I was listening closely until you did the exact same thing you just told another poster that he was wrong about.

If it's wrong to say the timeout that anyone could hear over the television but was ignored by the ref cost us the Minny game. When we'd have had possession and a lead with twenty seconds to go (I saw the other post, my recollection is it was just over 20 seconds but I'll give Mo the benefit of the doubt as it appears he took a closer look than I.). Than isn't it wrong to pick which game cost us the NCAA Tournament invite, like you just did? So we are all human, which you knew, but which is my point.

I appreciate where you are coming from as having an emotional investment into the trials and travails of the average ref. And usually I'd look at this as we've both got an emotional investment, me as a fan and you in some way being many long posts worth affiliated with refs. Fair enough.

But the thing is this. I'm 56. I've seen one year where several Big Ten Officials were fired, back in the 90's if I recall. Otherwise, once one has the gig it appears they pretty much keep it. And I don't think this pay for a summer camp run by the guy who is the officials boss and taught by guys who are already Big Ten refs, who also evaluate the guys at the camp and pass that evaluation on to their summer boss/game boss who then uses those evaluations as part of his decision to hire officials.......and on and on with the individually contracted stuff and lack of a national standard.....

I don't think all of that and more is just seen through a better camera angle. I think it is a problem.

I want the officiating to catch up to the rest of Professional College (except don't pay the players ) Basketball. I want refs hired by a national organization, part of but separate from the NCAA would be ok. I want them all trained the same way. I want their schedules to be determined in some other manner than if they think they have time to catch a flight and call another game the next day, and then another game the day after that somewhere else. And I want stats. I want to know who is calling the most technical fouls, etc. And I want more transparency that just being told refs review each game and even with their boss sometimes or whatever. I want lists of reprimands so I know somebody who is worse than somebody else is being told they are!

And mostly I want to not have to wonder who is officiating the game before I make an opinion about our chances. And I'm just greedy enough to want to not have to believe that some teams get an unfair advantage because they are the league's money maker and it's pretty clear they get away with murder.

I realize refs have angle issues, and things move pretty fast. That's why what used to take two now enjoys three officials. And they added replay to help out. And I hope I'm not being unfair in my desires. I don't want perfection, I want better. And nothing is perfect but when I hear Jim Delaney put down the idea of a centralized ref system because he thinks each league should enjoy it's own, "traditions"? Well, that's when I think what he means is not the same thing that I want, consistency.

But, I do respect the good refs. The ones who's names I don't recall. And if it were just camera angles and replay etc, skewing my perceptions how come I have those anonymous but appreciated refs?

So there's my thoughts. Take what you want, it's not meant in meanness and certainly not in an over-reaction sort of way. I know nothing is perfect.

My Dad, years before I was born, attended an older siblings basketball game, arrived late, and so had to sit on the visitors bleachers. He then set about doing his usual embarrassing yelling and even cussing and having a tyrannical fit at the officials. They'd had enough, like usual, and called a technical on the visiting team, and threw him out of the game. Only this time, they got the wrong team. Guess where Dad would sit from then on? Only the word got around and the officials knew about him and about his little trick. That's what I want, refs in a network that includes prevention of those little tricks...Izzo would be doomed.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

Calipari knew what he was doing when he made those comments. He understands the psychotic fan base that surrounds Kentucky basketball. When you get to enjoy the benefits of working for a school that has a fan base as rabid as it is for Kentucky basketball, acting and speaking responsibly is a part of the gig. He did not do so in this case. Again, he knew what he was doing when he made his comments, and it's not good for the sporting world when I coach can stimulate his fan base to put fear into the hearts and minds of the folks who are charged with enforcing the rules of the game.

Just awful comments, how can you know see that this a call for death threats.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Here is my recollection of the play! Minny has the ball with around 24--25 seconds (I think this is where everyone keeps thinking 22 seconds) Bring the ball downcourt with a chance to tie with 2 point. They miss the shot ball is rebounded by Iowa, passed to Ellingson. As defense closes in on him he takes a couple dribbles into the corner where he is surrounded by defenders, he curls up with the ball knowing he is about to be hacked. Obviously Minny HAS to foul. But instead of foul or timeout ref calls jumpball with approx. 12-15 seconds left. Minny inbounds and then ties the game. Ref had 4 options 1. Foul on Minny, 2. timeout Iowa, 3. Minny foot out of bounds=Iowa ball, or 4 jump ball. He made the ONE call that was obviously wrong. I don't think he (the ref) had any vendetta against Iowa, he just made a BAD call. My contention is that they should add foot out of bounds to also be reviewable in the last 2 min. It's much easier than those "who'd the ball go off" calls.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

If there WAS 22 second left when Ellingson was in the corner, there would have been no need for Minny to be in THAT "desperation mode". They would have just trapped and gone for a 10 second violation before fouling. If correct call is made Iowa and is a FT line up 2 with probably 7-9 seconds left. Still not a "given" for win but about 99.99999% if Jok or Ellingson at line.

 

[hawkbleeder]

As a retired football referee I can tell you that if you call a technical/unsportsmanlike on the coach you will most likely not see that coach again. Most of these coaches have "lists" that they give the assigner to use in finding officials for their games. If you "piss" off a coach enough you will not get that team/school again.

Officiating is a dying profession and there are more guys retiring than there are coming into it. I worry about some of the high school activities, as they might not have enough officials to go around. I know my last 2-3 years it was struggle to find guys to work lower level games. I remember a couple of times having to ref a freshman/JH football game by myself! I still had parents barking at me saying I missed a call.

I don't know what can be done to solve it, but Calipari needs to come out and make a statement tell those fans to stop it!

Calipari likes to call out his players in full view with his exaggerated reactions at timeouts...not holding my breath that he's gonna correct a bad fan that's not blaming him for the loss.

 

[ThrowBones92]

You were doing really good and I was listening closely until you did the exact same thing you just told another poster that he was wrong about.

If it's wrong to say the timeout that anyone could hear over the television but was ignored by the ref cost us the Minny game. When we'd have had possession and a lead with twenty seconds to go (I saw the other post, my recollection is it was just over 20 seconds but I'll give Mo the benefit of the doubt as it appears he took a closer look than I.). Than isn't it wrong to pick which game cost us the NCAA Tournament invite, like you just did? So we are all human, which you knew, but which is my point.

I appreciate where you are coming from as having an emotional investment into the trials and travails of the average ref. And usually I'd look at this as we've both got an emotional investment, me as a fan and you in some way being many long posts worth affiliated with refs. Fair enough.

But the thing is this. I'm 56. I've seen one year where several Big Ten Officials were fired, back in the 90's if I recall. Otherwise, once one has the gig it appears they pretty much keep it. And I don't think this pay for a summer camp run by the guy who is the officials boss and taught by guys who are already Big Ten refs, who also evaluate the guys at the camp and pass that evaluation on to their summer boss/game boss who then uses those evaluations as part of his decision to hire officials.......and on and on with the individually contracted stuff and lack of a national standard.....

I don't think all of that and more is just seen through a better camera angle. I think it is a problem.

I want the officiating to catch up to the rest of Professional College (except don't pay the players ) Basketball. I want refs hired by a national organization, part of but separate from the NCAA would be ok. I want them all trained the same way. I want their schedules to be determined in some other manner than if they think they have time to catch a flight and call another game the next day, and then another game the day after that somewhere else. And I want stats. I want to know who is calling the most technical fouls, etc. And I want more transparency that just being told refs review each game and even with their boss sometimes or whatever. I want lists of reprimands so I know somebody who is worse than somebody else is being told they are!

And mostly I want to not have to wonder who is officiating the game before I make an opinion about our chances. And I'm just greedy enough to want to not have to believe that some teams get an unfair advantage because they are the league's money maker and it's pretty clear they get away with murder.

I realize refs have angle issues, and things move pretty fast. That's why what used to take two now enjoys three officials. And they added replay to help out. And I hope I'm not being unfair in my desires. I don't want perfection, I want better. And nothing is perfect but when I hear Jim Delaney put down the idea of a centralized ref system because he thinks each league should enjoy it's own, "traditions"? Well, that's when I think what he means is not the same thing that I want, consistency.

But, I do respect the good refs. The ones who's names I don't recall. And if it were just camera angles and replay etc, skewing my perceptions how come I have those anonymous but appreciated refs?

So there's my thoughts. Take what you want, it's not meant in meanness and certainly not in an over-reaction sort of way. I know nothing is perfect.

My Dad, years before I was born, attended an older siblings basketball game, arrived late, and so had to sit on the visitors bleachers. He then set about doing his usual embarrassing yelling and even cussing and having a tyrannical fit at the officials. They'd had enough, like usual, and called a technical on the visiting team, and threw him out of the game. Only this time, they got the wrong team. Guess where Dad would sit from then on? Only the word got around and the officials knew about him and about his little trick. That's what I want, refs in a network that includes prevention of those little tricks...Izzo would be doomed.

Thanks for the comments.

I think I understand what you're saying regarding the "which game kept Iowa out of the tournament" - are you saying that I shouldn't have said the Nebraska and UNO losses had more to do with Iowa being kept out of the tournament? I think that's what you mean, if I'm wrong, let me know.
I guess my point was that that if you want to talk about a single game that kept Iowa out of the tournament, of which I don't really support the approach of pointing at one game in a vacuum that occurred with 4 weeks left in the season being the game you can point to that cost you the NCAA tournament, my opinion is that an overtime loss to a 25+ win Minnesota team who played in the championship game of the Big Ten Tournament is not the loss you should point to. I think you should point to the bad losses to Nebraska and UNO, IF you want to play that game. That was all I was saying.

I appreciate everything you said. You are clearly a thoughtful person, and I don't really disagree with anything you said. I completely agree with you about NCAA officiating, if we're going to put the best officiating product on the court, needs to be centralized. Anyone who disagrees, you can likely follow the trail of power and influence back to them, as they don't want to give that up.

I could go into more depth regarding your post, but I'd basically be agreeing with each point and adding my own thoughts. Surmise to say, your post is spot on. I've enjoyed our conversation.

One other thing - you're exactly right about the "hiring process". The camp structure is sort of a racket, at least for the guys trying to get picked up in multiple leagues or keep our roster spots. If we don't shell out the $ to attend camp (and "tuition" to pretty much every major officiating consortium costs around $600), we lose our spots. Again, your assessment of the way the camp structure works is spot on.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

I think I understand what you're saying regarding the "which game kept Iowa out of the tournament" - are you saying that I shouldn't have said the Nebraska and UNO losses had more to do with Iowa being kept out of the tournament? I think that's what you mean, if I'm wrong, let me know.
I guess my point was that that if you want to talk about a single game that kept Iowa out of the tournament, of which I don't really support the approach of pointing at one game in a vacuum that occurred with 4 weeks left in the season being the game you can point to that cost you the NCAA tournament, my opinion is that an overtime loss to a 25+ win Minnesota team who played in the championship game of the Big Ten Tournament is not the loss you should point to. I think you should point to the bad losses to Nebraska and UNO, IF you want to play that game. That was all I was saying.

I appreciate everything you said. You are clearly a thoughtful person, and I don't really disagree with anything you said. I completely agree with you about NCAA officiating, if we're going to put the best officiating product on the court, needs to be centralized. Anyone who disagrees, you can likely follow the trail of power and influence back to them, as they don't want to give that up.

I could go into more depth regarding your post, but I'd basically be agreeing with each point and adding my own thoughts. Surmise to say, your post is spot on. I've enjoyed our conversation.

One other thing - you're exactly right about the "hiring process". The camp structure is sort of a racket, at least for the guys trying to get picked up in multiple leagues or keep our roster spots. If we don't shell out the $ to attend camp (and "tuition" to pretty much every major officiating consortium costs around $600), we lose our spots. Again, your assessment of the way the camp structure works is spot on.

The mistake your making bones is the win at Minny would have made conf record 11-7 and ALONE in 4th place an IN the dance. Yes, you could say the Nebby loss would be the same but the difference is "the botched call" vs Minny

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

View embedded media

Just awful comments, how can you know see that this a call for death threats.

Start your post game with--Amazing that we were in the game after THEY almost fouled out my entire team... Coach Cal knew how that would be perceived by Big Blue's crazies.

 

[ichawk24]

The above posters are wrong bones. It was 10 seconds left Iowa should have been awarded the ball the ball out of bounds. I don't know where they are getting 22 seconds.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=400915014

0:22 Brady Ellingson Turnover. 77 - 75
0:22 Akeem Springs Steal. 77 - 75
0:22 Minnesota Timeout 77 - 75

Highlights of the game, includes the Minnesota tying possession, joining the action with 15 seconds on the clock:

 

[DavenportHawk8]

You don't know what you're talking about. Officiating, overall, at the college level is as good as it's ever been. The challenges that continue to make it the most difficult sport in the world to officiate are as follows:
1) the size, speed and athleticism of players is better than it's ever been. And it will continue to increase. Training the human brain and body to keep up is going to continue to be a major challenge
2) The development of high-definition TV, zoom and slow-mo replay - now more than ever before have fans had access to 7 angles of a play in slow-mo high def. The more this capability develops, the harder it will be on officials. Fans don't understand their angles many times are better than the official has to work with. And he/she has to make a decision in a split second and live with the call/no-call. Fans get to see plays 2,3,4,5 times at all possible angles in slow motion and with full zoom. Most people don't have a clue what this is like until they try to call a game at full speed with no help from multiple tv angles.
3) The growth of cable TV - now pretty much all games, even at the D2 level, are televised or aired via stream. More games are being watched, so more issues are being noticed
3) different crews work together every single night - which is different from football - makes floor coverage, call consistency, teamwork a new challenge every night.
4) The money involved in the game now is huge - the coaches are themselves the most recognizable individual at major programs. College basketball is a coach's game, while the NBA is a player's game. If you think they continually try to exert influence and control on the game and the way it is called so that it can be called to match their coaching style, you're not paying attention.

Big money raises the stakes for everyone. If the fans, coaches, players, the NCAA want the best possible called game, they need to be pushing for professionally trained and paid officials. The vast majority of us work day jobs because we can't make working even 30 D1 games work as a full time job. The NBA does an excellent job training officials. The NCAA needs to figure out how to do this if they want to keep up with the challenges.

I laugh every time I hear someone talk about the honestly or integrity of officials. They have no idea what they're talking about. They race to their tinfoil hats every time they think someone got screwed. It MUST be intentional. Very little room for error or mistake. Our integrity is literally all we have. If it came to light that someone was deliberately screwing people, they'd be done immediately. While this has happened in the past, and it doesn't mean it isn't/won't happen again, the chances of this being the case with any more than 1 or 2 so insane to even entertain.

Great Post! I agree that no official goes into a game with the mindset "I'm gonna screw over team A tonight." Sorry it just doesn't happen that way. Do officials miss calls, hell yeah no one is perfect. These guys are trying their best and I will add another thing.

These guys are working 70-80 games in a season. When it comes to February, their bodies have been put through a gauntlet of running, over night travel, late nights. I mean they are exhausted.

There has to be new blood involved and new officials, but there are not. I mean the High Schools are struggling to find officials, can you imagine the NCAA in 10 years?? There will not be very many guys left.

I remember an old football coach I reffed my first year. He told me that if I hear anything from any of his coaches to let him know. He said to me, "you have the right angle and I trust you to make the right call." His team got beat soundly that night, but he did not complain one time. I wrote the schools and the state praising this coach. He understood that officials are human beings and that they cannot change the outcome of a game.

I would like to get back into it, but with kids and activities, its become too much. Also the fact of officiating games as a 1 man crew also was not fun for me.

 

[ThrowBones92]

The mistake your making bones is the win at Minny would have made conf record 11-7 and ALONE in 4th place an IN the dance. Yes, you could say the Nebby loss would be the same but the difference is "the botched call" vs Minny

The win would have made Iowa 6-5, or something like that. Not 11-7. It would not have put Iowa in the tourney. They had 7 games left to play, of which they went 4-3. RIght?

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

The win would have made Iowa 6-5, or something like that. Not 11-7. It would not have put Iowa in the tourney. They had 7 games left to play, of which they went 4-3. RIght?

They finished the conf season 10-8 Minny win instead of loss would have put them at 11-7 and ALONE in 4th place..

 

[Franisdaman]

I think I understand what you're saying regarding the "which game kept Iowa out of the tournament" - are you saying that I shouldn't have said the Nebraska and UNO losses had more to do with Iowa being kept out of the tournament? I think that's what you mean, if I'm wrong, let me know.
I guess my point was that that if you want to talk about a single game that kept Iowa out of the tournament, of which I don't really support the approach of pointing at one game in a vacuum that occurred with 4 weeks left in the season being the game you can point to that cost you the NCAA tournament, my opinion is that an overtime loss to a 25+ win Minnesota team who played in the championship game of the Big Ten Tournament is not the loss you should point to. I think you should point to the bad losses to Nebraska and UNO, IF you want to play that game. That was all I was saying.

I appreciate everything you said. You are clearly a thoughtful person, and I don't really disagree with anything you said. I completely agree with you about NCAA officiating, if we're going to put the best officiating product on the court, needs to be centralized. Anyone who disagrees, you can likely follow the trail of power and influence back to them, as they don't want to give that up.

I could go into more depth regarding your post, but I'd basically be agreeing with each point and adding my own thoughts. Surmise to say, your post is spot on. I've enjoyed our conversation.

One other thing - you're exactly right about the "hiring process". The camp structure is sort of a racket, at least for the guys trying to get picked up in multiple leagues or keep our roster spots. If we don't shell out the $ to attend camp (and "tuition" to pretty much every major officiating consortium costs around $600), we lose our spots. Again, your assessment of the way the camp structure works is spot on.

A beat writer asked the USA Today bracketologist if Iowa had beaten a top 25 RPI team on the road (Minny), would they be in the NCAA Tournament? He said yes. Note, too,that Iowa was one of the last 4 out.

 

[ThrowBones92]

They finished the conf season 10-8 Minny win instead of loss would have put them at 11-7 and ALONE in 4th place..

My point is that the Minny win, OR the Nebraska win would have had the same effect on the record. RIght?

 

[ThrowBones92]

A beat writer asked the USA Today bracketologist if Iowa had beaten a top 25 RPI team on the road (Minny), would they be in the NCAA Tournament? He said yes. Note, too,that Iowa was one of the last 4 out.

Fair enough, although unless the bracketologist was in the war room on Sunday, his opinion is just that, an opinion. My guess is that opinion was not unanimous by any stretch. But I understand what you're saying about quality wins. I get it.

My overarching point has been in response to the folks who want to pin all of Iowa's NCAA Tournament hopes on a single official missing a single call while Iowa was still up by two points in a game on the 8th of February. Because that statement was made. And I think it's absurd.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

My point is that the Minny win, OR the Nebraska win would have had the same effect on the record. RIght?

Oh yes, the difference is of course our fanbase feels the Minny game was pretty much in the win column if it were not for a blind AND deaf referee.

 

[DanL53]

I think I understand what you're saying regarding the "which game kept Iowa out of the tournament" - are you saying that I shouldn't have said the Nebraska and UNO losses had more to do with Iowa being kept out of the tournament? I think that's what you mean, if I'm wrong, let me know.
I guess my point was that that if you want to talk about a single game that kept Iowa out of the tournament, of which I don't really support the approach of pointing at one game in a vacuum that occurred with 4 weeks left in the season being the game you can point to that cost you the NCAA tournament, my opinion is that an overtime loss to a 25+ win Minnesota team who played in the championship game of the Big Ten Tournament is not the loss you should point to. I think you should point to the bad losses to Nebraska and UNO, IF you want to play that game. That was all I was saying.

I appreciate everything you said. You are clearly a thoughtful person, and I don't really disagree with anything you said. I completely agree with you about NCAA officiating, if we're going to put the best officiating product on the court, needs to be centralized. Anyone who disagrees, you can likely follow the trail of power and influence back to them, as they don't want to give that up.

I could go into more depth regarding your post, but I'd basically be agreeing with each point and adding my own thoughts. Surmise to say, your post is spot on. I've enjoyed our conversation.

One other thing - you're exactly right about the "hiring process". The camp structure is sort of a racket, at least for the guys trying to get picked up in multiple leagues or keep our roster spots. If we don't shell out the $ to attend camp (and "tuition" to pretty much every major officiating consortium costs around $600), we lose our spots. Again, your assessment of the way the camp structure works is spot on.

Thanks. And yes, I was saying that picking one play to blame a loss on, is like picking one game to blame no invite on. Kind of not really. (This in no way excuses the scoundrel who cost us the Minnesota game and possibly an invite to the Dance) I'm being both reasonable, and a fan at the same time.

You have undoubtedly encountered the same thing when you've officiated. If we seem entirely happy you are doing something wrong. If you have to escape town in the dead of night, you did something REALLY wrong.

 

[Franisdaman]

Referees for Gonzaga vs South Carolina: John Higgins, Doug Sirmons, Jeff Anderson

 

[ichawk24]

They finished the conf season 10-8 Minny win instead of loss would have put them at 11-7 and ALONE in 4th place..

In a magical world were the rest of the season transpires the exact same.

Tell me again that it was 10 seconds, not 22. Who is blind and deaf?

Grow up.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

In a magical world were the rest of the season transpires the exact same.

Tell me again that it was 10 seconds, not 22. Who is blind and deaf?

Grow up.

So I am wrong that 1 more win would put them 11-7 in conference play?......... I "guess" there may be some cause and effect that a win in Minny would cause a loss in following games that the Hawkeyes won? That's an interesting theory. Not trying to be a smartass but what your saying is a Hawkeye win in regulation at Minny MAY cause a different outcome of games to follow? Hmmm. ....................... My only real beef is that if replay is truly meant to "get it right" in the last 2 minutes. Foot out of bounds needs to be reviewable. It's much easier to see than these "who's finger did it go off" that they take FOREVER to review.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Fair enough, although unless the bracketologist was in the war room on Sunday, his opinion is just that, an opinion. My guess is that opinion was not unanimous by any stretch. But I understand what you're saying about quality wins. I get it.

My overarching point has been in response to the folks who want to pin all of Iowa's NCAA Tournament hopes on a single official missing a single call while Iowa was still up by two points in a game on the 8th of February. Because that statement was made. And I think it's absurd.

I'll play a bit of devil's advocate. If you don't think one blown call can "change a season" I can think of quite a few that actually did. I can think of one blown call that changed college football HISTORY. The 5th down play Colorado vs Missouri 1990. Colorado scores on last play of the game where referees (in error) gave the Buffs a 5th down. Colorado would not have won a national championship if not for that one call. I contend that this "missed single call" LIKELY DID cost Iowa an NCAA berth (obviously if the rest of the season played out as it did.)

 

[ichawk24]

Colorado spiked the ball on 4th down due to the officiating error. Obviously, they wouldn't have spiked the ball on 4th down, so they could very well have scored on the real 4th down.

Facts aren't your strong point.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Colorado spiked the ball on 4th down due to the officiating error. Obviously, they wouldn't have spiked the ball on 4th down, so they could very well have scored on the real 4th down.

Facts aren't your strong point.

FACT is they were given 5 downs. The spike allowed them to stop the clock (which was running) and call a play. Please tell me "were"lol I am FACTUALLY wrong?

 

[ThrowBones92]

I'll play a bit of devil's advocate. If you don't think one blown call can "change a season" I can think of quite a few that actually did. I can think of one blown call that changed college football HISTORY. The 5th down play Colorado vs Missouri 1990. Colorado scores on last play of the game where referees (in error) gave the Buffs a 5th down. Colorado would not have won a national championship if not for that one call. I contend that this "missed single call" LIKELY DID cost Iowa an NCAA berth (obviously if the rest of the season played out as it did.)

Your point is fair and it's a good one. Although, it might actually strengthen my point and also validate yours at the same time. The difference with my point is that Iowa had about 7 games left to play at that time. They also had overtime to play in that game before it was decided. In fact, they still had the lead and a chance to win in regulation if they got one more defensive stop. So the call itself did not decide the game or the season for the Hawks. So, MANY opportunities to control their own destiny after that call, both in that game and in their season. If they go better than 4-3 in their last 7, maybe it's a different story.

In your point, the 5th down was literally their last play of the last game of the season ( I believe, but I could be wrong. DIdn't look it up). In my opinion, there is a big difference between how the calls impacted each respective team's season.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Your point is fair and it's a good one. Although, it might actually strengthen my point and also validate yours at the same time. The difference with my point is that Iowa had about 7 games left to play at that time. They also had overtime to play in that game before it was decided. In fact, they still had the lead and a chance to win in regulation if they got one more defensive stop. So the call itself did not decide the game or the season for the Hawks. So, MANY opportunities to control their own destiny after that call, both in that game and in their season. If they go better than 4-3 in their last 7, maybe it's a different story.

In your point, the 5th down was literally their last play of the last game of the season ( I believe, but I could be wrong. DIdn't look it up). In my opinion, there is a big difference between how the calls impacted each respective team's season.

it's obvious that I look at it more from a coaches viewpoint (spent 7 years as a collegiate coach) and you kind of look at it more from official's view. What you're saying is "well, you had plenty of opportunity to overcome the bad call" I guess so. Again, like I've said earlier, it's not so much the blown call as I think THIS blown call should have them looking at changing reviews in some way..................BTW The 5th down play was somewhere midseason but yes it literally was the last play of the game

 

[Franisdaman]

Update:

Apr 5 2017
From hawkcentral:


Not even spoiled and very out-of-line Kentucky basketball fans, some of whom even threatened his life, can keep one of the top college basketball referees off the court.

And despite the urging of his wife, John Higgins isn’t hanging up his whistle.

“Yes, she wanted me to quit,” Higgins told The Register Wednesday. “What happened, not only to me, but to my family, my business and my business’ employees is ridiculous, but I’m not going to let a few fans – quite a few fans, actually – from one place make me quit.

“When I go out, I want to go out on my own.”

The NCAA could have gone elsewhere when picking Final Four refs. They could have said fallout from Big Blue Nation posed too much of a potential public relations nightmare at college basketball’s biggest stage, but they didn’t.

Higgins was back at it, working the Gonzaga-South Carolina in the Final Four last Saturday.

“It sent a strong message that 'Hey, we believe in you,'” Higgins said. “'There’s a reason why you’re here – you’re one of the best guys.'”

“One of the guys from NCAA said no way in hell would we let anyone take you off that game. That gave me a boost of confidence.

“They asked me if I was OK. I said I was fine – that it wasn’t me as much as it was my family that I was concerned about. My business and my employees – they were scared to get in truck and drive around.”

There was security outside Higgins’ home and business. The FBI continues to pore over emails, anonymous phone calls and social media posts.

“Some that was really graphic,” Higgins said. “I can’t give you a PG version of them; some of them were really sick. There’s a twitter one out there that has my picture and a target right on my face.”

Higgins’ three children are between ages 10 and 25. There was even buzz around the school that their youngest attends.

“Kids were talking at school,” Higgins, 55, said. “He knew something was going on – and that bothers me.

“My older kids understand it. They know you’re not going to make everyone happy. They get it.”

Nonetheless, Higgins will be on the court for his 29th refereeing season. He’ll undoubtedly work a handful of Iowa State games. He did five last season.

“I understand fans have passion. College sports are unique in that way,” Higgins said. “We’re not going to make every call right. Players aren’t going to make every shot. Coaches aren’t going to get every (player) rotation right, but one thing everyone has to have is good sportsmanship.

“Unfortunately it went over the line.”


whole story: http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...e-me-quit-ncaa-tournament-official/100070710/

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

Fair enough, although unless the bracketologist was in the war room on Sunday, his opinion is just that, an opinion. My guess is that opinion was not unanimous by any stretch. But I understand what you're saying about quality wins. I get it.

My overarching point has been in response to the folks who want to pin all of Iowa's NCAA Tournament hopes on a single official missing a single call while Iowa was still up by two points in a game on the 8th of February. Because that statement was made. And I think it's absurd.

Bones - I've stayed out of this so far, but do want to jump in and applaud your reasoned explanations and opinions.

I will say, I think you've adjusted your position slightly upon getting more context of the game given our final standings. People were short-handedly saying that with that win, we are in the NCAAs, rather than pointing out the several factors that change:
1) 11-7 and sole possession of 4th place in BTT (not an official criteria, but insulates from the possibility of a bad loss to end the season likely would have played Michigan State in the 4/5 game on Friday, rather than Indiana in the 7-10 game Thursday)
2) Improves the Road/Neutral record
3) Adds a road win against a Top 25 RPI team
4) Improves overall record and comparisons to other bubble teams

This all assumes there was no change to any other results, which is not realistic.

Either way, I think it is clear that an error occurred and we have a segment of the fanbase fanatically crying "CONSPIRACY", while another segment is lamenting the shortcomings in the existing system. Unfortunately there is no recourse for the actual team other than having some impact to future assigned referees if the mistakes are egregious enough.

 

[hooper56]

Great Post! I agree that no official goes into a game with the mindset "I'm gonna screw over team A tonight." Sorry it just doesn't happen that way.
.

I think it happens all the time. They have a stake into who wins or loses. Nobody monitors their gambling habits.

 

[terrehawk]

Isn't this the same guy rhat Iowa fans did the same thing to a few years back? I am thinking it was after the last game in Cedar Falls.

Nice troll. Actually it's pretty ridiculous that you would say that. Which fanbase are you here from?

Only a degenerate would try and compare the Kentucky situation with the uni situation. GTFO