Manville not going to be a 49. If Berge can't hold 49, it will be one of the Lee bros
Warner is a Hawkeye!
- Thread starter The Vak
- Start date
Manville not going to be a 49. If Berge can't hold 49, it will be one of the Lee bros
Iowa has had 2 so called #1 class rankings in last 7 years.
2010 - Evans was the top recruit (#4) in that class, and the only one in top 10.
2012 - Skon was the top recruit (#15), with nobody in top 10.
I think this year's recruiting class is looking better than either of those.
I agree. Previous classes received the #1 class ranking because they were deep with lots of good recruits. We need great recruits (top 10 p4p) to keep up with the Joneses.
Where in the hell did you get downside from that? I actually specifically pointed out that the Warner commit was even more substantial because it looked to be a weight that PSU needs!
I just did my best to guess likely starters. With Retherford manning 149 for the next 2 years, it's pretty hard to predict who will be at 149 by then!
Do you think Minny's return to the top would've been helped by getting "the face of Minnesota wrestling," Mark Hall? Or maybe Gable Steveson?
In case you haven't noticed, getting many top 10 guys translates into success. Not a guarantee, but certainly a high correlation.
The "times" have always been exciting. The results sometimes perhaps were not what we'd hoped for, but getting there has always been exciting, IMO.
Point taken anyway Sir...............
Understood. But is the depth there? And I'm not complaining at all, just having a discussion. Also, we could pick up some kids in the spring to complete the class.
I think quality is more important than depth, but having both would be great. Also, concerning spring pick ups...Fix is the last top 30 recruit who hasn't committed. Any pick ups would be categorized as depth, imho.
Hall and Steveson would actually decrease the chances of a return to the top for MN.
Not sure where ur response came from. I know no one likes being compared to Jammen but that is what it reminded me of.
I think our 2017 class is solid, moreso if we still have Troy signed. 4 top 100's. #1 Lee, #8 Warner, #52 Murin (Who I personally think is a bit underestimated), and #88 Troy. Plus two others who are ranked in their weight class individually Costello, and Wilson. Could Wilson move up to 184? Willie thinks that Wilson could be really good for Iowa. Then two who are unranked currently in Stickley and Axmear. I think this is good and we can move on to 2018 and 2019 classes.
We only have one recruit for either of the two in #2 Teasdale. I think between the 2018 and 2019 classes 149(for after Sorensen/Turk), 184 (for after Wilcke), and 285(for after Stoll) have to be addressed. Nelson Brands(2018) is a name that comes to mind, does he make 149? I can't think of any 184's at the moment, and for Hwt only two names come to mind right now, Gable Steveson(2018) and Cohlton Schultz(2019).
We only have one recruit for either of the two in #2 Teasdale. I think between the 2018 and 2019 classes 149(for after Sorensen/Turk), 184 (for after Wilcke), and 285(for after Stoll) have to be addressed. Nelson Brands(2018) is a name that comes to mind, does he make 149? I can't think of any 184's at the moment, and for Hwt only two names come to mind right now, Gable Steveson(2018) and Cohlton Schultz(2019).
[QUOTE=" and for Hwt only two names come to mind right now, Gable Steveson(2018) and Cohlton Schultz(2019).[/QUOTE]
I like Costello, but either Steveson or Schultz would be great!
I like Costello, but either Steveson or Schultz would be great!
Yes it definitely can be and could very much be argued that it can. That just isn't how recruiting rankings often work.
Things can change during the season. Some kids take a big leap their senior year. Could be some really solid pickups in there this spring.
Any late bloomer projections? I would guess it's more likely in the modern era that late bloomers weren't on the radar because they hadn't previously fully committed to wrestling or didn't compete in the big tournaments. This might be an interesting topic for one of the wrestling media outlets to tackle.
-----
I'm a fan of getting top 10 guys and depth.
But seriously, over the past several years, I just become more of a believer in trying to grab 1 or 2 absolute hammers each year (the Metcalfs, Stieber, Taylors of the HS world)... full rides, or whatever it takes. Then supplement that with partial scholly's for others.
Getting 5 top 100 guys, but none in the top 10 or 20 seems to get you a high recruiting ranking by some, but imho, is less effective.
I believe PSU's success in the past 6 years has everything to do with getting several very elite guys every year.
----Hall and Steveson would actually decrease the chances of a return to the top for MN.
Not sure where ur response came from. I know no one likes being compared to Jammen but that is what it reminded me of.
Sorry if I seemed snarky toward you. I appreciate your posts on this forum. I don't normally agree with Jammen, but I actually thought he has brought a valid point regarding recruiting recently.
-----
Ilustrative tabulation. Here's another way of looking at it, that I think highlights the same thing.
Here are potential current Iowa and PSU lineups, with the ranking of the kid at their weight class in high school:
Iowa
125 Gilman 4
133 Clark 3
141 Turk 10
149 Sorenson 5
157 Kemerer 2
165 Marinelli 2
174 Meyer 4
184 Brooks 2
197 Holloway 6
Hwt Stoll 3
PSU
125 Suriano 1
133 Cortez 1
141 Gulibon 1
149 Retherford 1
157 Nolf 1
165 Joseph 1 or Hall 1
174 Rasheed 4
184 Nickal 1
197 Cassar 13
Hwt Nevills 1
As you can see, PSU has assembled a team with the top ranked guy in their HS weight class at every single weight except 174 and an unusual outlier at 197.
Iowa's recruits are a solid lot, and Tom has gotten great development from them, but at the same time, Cael's recruiting has been off the charts, and his results are in large part related to that. Jmho.
…....and much like Jammen, you fail to really make a point. Recruiting is a fundamental part of college athletics and an important component of the coaches job description. Furthermore, there is the inconvenient fact that half of all top ten recruits fail to AA even once. Think about that for a second. Cael has done a phenomenal job at developing high end talent in relation to the averages. Now that Brands has pulled in several top 10 recruits, lets see how his guys measure up because statistically speaking a few of the guys you are so excited about will never AA.
Last edited:
Until FT clarifies who he was comparing to Jammen, consider me offended!!
Full of it as usual.
We've had only four top ten recruits take the mat under Brands - Metcalf #2, Evans #4, Nate Moore #8, and Tony Ramos #10. We're batting 75% AA and 50% national champs.
However, even more telling, 82% of our top 30 high school recruits have been AAs and over 50% were wrestling on Saturday night.
2005 -
Metcalf #2 (3 x AA; 2 x champ)
Jay Borschel #19 (2 x AA; 1 x champ)
Joey Slaton #24 (AA - finalist)
2006 -
2007 -
2008 -
Nate Moore #8
Matt McDonough #14 3 x AA; 2 x champ, 1 x runner up)
2009 -
Tony Ramos #10 (3 x AA; 1 x champ, 1 x runner up)
Derek St. John #15 (4 x AA; 1 x champ, 1x runner up)
Ethen Lofthouse #17 (2 x AA)
2010 -
Mike Evans #4 (2 x AA)
Nick Moore #11
Josh Dziewa #12
Bobby Telford #19 (2 x AA)
2011 -
2012 -
Thomas Gilman #16 (2 x AA; 1 x runnerup)
Sammy Books #20 (AA)
Cory Clark #23 3 x AA; 2 x runnerup)
2013
Brandon Sorensen #27 (2 x AA; 1 x runnerup)
Metcalf #2 (3 x AA; 2 x champ)
Jay Borschel #19 (2 x AA; 1 x champ)
Joey Slaton #24 (AA - finalist)
2006 -
2007 -
2008 -
Nate Moore #8
Matt McDonough #14 3 x AA; 2 x champ, 1 x runner up)
2009 -
Tony Ramos #10 (3 x AA; 1 x champ, 1 x runner up)
Derek St. John #15 (4 x AA; 1 x champ, 1x runner up)
Ethen Lofthouse #17 (2 x AA)
2010 -
Mike Evans #4 (2 x AA)
Nick Moore #11
Josh Dziewa #12
Bobby Telford #19 (2 x AA)
2011 -
2012 -
Thomas Gilman #16 (2 x AA; 1 x runnerup)
Sammy Books #20 (AA)
Cory Clark #23 3 x AA; 2 x runnerup)
2013
Brandon Sorensen #27 (2 x AA; 1 x runnerup)
If the Iowa staff is spending their days pouring over old recruiting rankings on D1CW to try to figure out Penn State's success, there is not much chance of them catching up.
Sanderson is the best program builder in college wrestling today. And when you build the best program, you get the best recruits.
Fans pour over recruiting efforts but I have a good feeling TnT focus on the present and future more than anything. Also, yes, Cael build a great program at PSU... BUT you must not live in Ames to say he is the best program builder.
Was Bill Belichick the best program builder in his first job as Cleveland head coach? No. He learned the lessons and applied them the next go-round. Same with Cael.
if you think the NFL draft and college wrestling recruiting are similar in any ways in trying to make Cael look like a "program builder" man you are st*p*d.
As I said, the general average is 50/50 with top ten recruits to AA at least once. Those numbers include guys that didn't work out and never took the mat. Brands has recruited 5 top ten recruits since becoming a head coach and 3 went on to become All Americans. That's a little better then average at 60%. If you factor in top 12 that number drops to 43%
#2 Brett Metcalf (3 x AA)
#6 Billy Murphy
#8 Nate Moore
#4 Mike Evans (3 x AA)
#10 Tony Ramos (3 x AA)
Last edited:
Well because VT AD didn't live up to his agreement cost Metcalf a year and most likely would have been a 4 time AA and 3 time champ.
As for Murphy yes he had personal problems.
As for Moore he looked like he had turned the corner his Jr. year then injuries his Sr. year was a set back things a coach has no control over.
Evans 3 time AA not a high as was expected but was in the toughest weight class 3 years in a row and got screwed in the semis once and maybe could have won a champship.
Will go out on a limb here somewhat: The top guys Brands got coming in Lee,Teasdale,Warner, "Bull" Murin,and Kem will be many AA's for all of them and even many champs. If they call all stay healthy. Just like Cal the Altons where big stars but injuries cut them down that is what can happen nothing about building up.
As for Murphy yes he had personal problems.
As for Moore he looked like he had turned the corner his Jr. year then injuries his Sr. year was a set back things a coach has no control over.
Evans 3 time AA not a high as was expected but was in the toughest weight class 3 years in a row and got screwed in the semis once and maybe could have won a champship.
Will go out on a limb here somewhat: The top guys Brands got coming in Lee,Teasdale,Warner, "Bull" Murin,and Kem will be many AA's for all of them and even many champs. If they call all stay healthy. Just like Cal the Altons where big stars but injuries cut them down that is what can happen nothing about building up.
I think your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills are poor if that is what you got out of my post.
-----
More silliness from FT.
Nevermind that Murphy dropped out of school after his undefeated RS fr year, due to factors well outside of any wrestling coach's control.
Nate Moore just happened to be at the same weight as Matt McD, a non top ten recruit (#5 in his weight class per WrestlingUSA), who Tom and Terry helped "develop" into a 2x NCAA champ. And then Nate was out with a very serious Staph infection.
Your pointing to an instance or two of top 10 guys who didn't AA is interesting, but doesn't change the basic truism, which is...
The chance of success of top 10 guys generally exceeds that of any other decile. The next decile (#11-20) generally exceeds the 3rd decile (#21-30)... and so on.
The basic fact is that over the last 5-6 years, Iowa has fallen well behind PSU in getting top 10 recruits, and you get hypersensitive whenever that is pointed out.
What's silly is you refusing to acknowledge that guys failing to achieve at the next level for reasons beyond performance such as grades, injuries and personal problems is incorporated into the statistic. Are you actually trying to tell me that all of Iowa's top 10 recruits are immune to these issues because it seems to me the Hawks have a higher attrition rate with their top 100 recruits then most programs.
Your fundamental problem is that you refuse to credit Sanderson for how well he identifies the guys that best fit his program and how well he develops those top tier guys. You expect all of your guys to have the same high level of success based on what Penn State has done with it's top recruits however it simply isn't that easy as you will learn over the next few years.
Your fundamental problem is that you refuse to credit Sanderson for how well he identifies the guys that best fit his program and how well he develops those top tier guys. You expect all of your guys to have the same high level of success based on what Penn State has done with it's top recruits however it simply isn't that easy as you will learn over the next few years.
Last edited:
it's so great over there go back and quit boring us with your pointless droning on and on. we certainly don't need a lecture on winning from the new guys
Cael did such a great job with Andrew Long, I figured all this drivel from you was a given to the rest of the wrestling world.
Here is a cool video of Warner making his decision and signing his LOI that I hadn't seen posted yet. He seems really happy with his decision, which is awesome. Already has tremendous respect for his future teammates.
http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1006757-jacob-warner-signs-his-letter-of-intent-to-iowa
http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1006757-jacob-warner-signs-his-letter-of-intent-to-iowa
From the way Jacob was talking, Iowa was his first choice all along. He just wanted to give the other schools a chance.
Couldn't be happier to have a kid like this at Iowa!
Similar threads
