Weight training program...PROGRESS!

[hawkeyeguy69]

This. Gatens dropped a ton of weight his last couple of years and we was a much better player. His movement & shot release were significantly better.

Remember Melsahn Basabe his sophmore year? He gained a bunch of weight/muscle and lost a lot of movement & quickness... His confidence was shot. He never really returned to form. But did have a decent career.

I am all for the players gaining some strength, but prefer it to not be a significant amount of muscle bulk. You can become more lean, less body fat, and still get stronger.

If players do gain a lot of weight, the timing of that gain should be stopped by the middle of summer. That way they are more comfortable, and used to playing with that size...

There are only a few players I would like to see gain some serious muscle increase. They are -- Maishe Dailey(would love to see him with some muscle!), Isaiah Moss, Connor Mac, CJ Fredrick & Kriener.

Baer, Nunge, Garza & Pemsl can put on some more muscle. But I think too much there and they lose out on quickness, which they definitely need to keep. I may add Kriener to this list, as it already sounds like he is getting big!!

True, but there is a fine line to hit there. They need to bulk up , but they sure can't afford to lose any quickness either. I remember after Lickleiter's first year he decided that our players needed to bulk up. Matt Gatens put on 20 lbs. of muscle for the next season but wasn;t as effective at driving it to the hoop. He decided that he was more effective at the lighter weight. Certainly some frames are more suited to bulking up than others.

 

[anon_gjzkhykcp9iuj]

I want to wait and see. I do agree that we are in need of adding some strength but this is not the 80’s or 90’s any more. In that area the game was dominated on the blocks and the league was full of bulked up players. Those days are gone. It’s all about athleticism, quickness laterally and skills. If we take a slow footed team and add muscle it’s going to remain slow. It could even get a half step slower. It may not have as much impact as you think.

Nobody (hopefully) is talking about bulking up, rather talking about getting stronger. Proper weight training can increase strength, quickness, explosiveness, ability to finish through contact, and so on. We have several guys that appear that they could add some strength and even bulk without risk of losing any athleticism. Heck, they might get faster or quicker or more explosive.

So you pick out amazing & gifted players one of which might be the best player to ever play in the NBA to support the strength training argument. So we have these type of athletes (KD & MJ) and all they need to do is strength train?

There are countless examples as posted by others. They exist at all levels of competition.

Okay I’ll give a couple examples Hawkeye fans can identify with a little more. I’ve seen so much drooling over here on Zavier Simpson from Michigan and how heis “just what Iowa needs” an uber athletic point guard. From what I’ve heard he’s not just some genetic freak but a workout warrior. I think we as Hawk fans would also take another Dean Oliver on this team any day. I used to talk to Bill Maxwell (strength coach) on a regular basis during the Tom Davis era. While he lamented that Dr. Tom had a very lax attitude regarding the weight training. Telling me he would call Davis to tell him players were skipping workouts and ask if he wanted him to go to their dorm/apt and drag them in. Dr. Tom would just say “naw, don’t worry about it”. You know what player Bill said he never had to worry about showing up or pushing? Dean Oliver. Said Dean was an animal in the weight room. I’m a former small college strength coach myself so a little partial but witnessed first hand what proper weight training can do.

When I think of a guy that dominated because of strengthl, the first man that comes to mind is always Andre Woolridge. Dude could only go with one hand, and everybody knew it, but it didn't matter. Man was a bull!

 

[Bearhawk0505]

Outside of Cook, our roster was slow and weak last year for a big ten team. Added strength will help and is needed.

 

[millhawk]

I want to wait and see. I do agree that we are in need of adding some strength but this is not the 80’s or 90’s any more. In that area the game was dominated on the blocks and the league was full of bulked up players. Those days are gone. It’s all about athleticism, quickness laterally and skills. If we take a slow footed team and add muscle it’s going to remain slow. It could even get a half step slower. It may not have as much impact as you think.

Adding muscle can help with your athleticism especially if stretching and flexibility work is included.
I don't like the idea of getting Doyle on board...he has enough on his plate. Maybe Maxwell should be replaced. It is very concerning that Fran has finally figured this out but Barta is giving him plenty of time to get the program straightened out.

 

[twindman]

This emphasis on weight training is, IMHO of course, a major problem in all sports, especially basketball.

Johnson and Brown were of average to slight builds. Glen Vidnovic, one of the starting forwards, was nicknamed "The Stick" because he was 6-5 and 170 pounds, the skinniest player I've ever seen on a college basketball floor. He was the opposite of strong, but he was one helluva player.

.

He must have gained weight ! My memory says he was 6'6 and weighed 150 when he came in. The joke was, if he turned sideways, he could slide thru a tiny crack in the defense and get to the hoop - which he did often!!!

 

[anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba]

He's actually listed as 6-5 and 190 in the official stats. I said 170 because 190 is ludicrous. You're right: Vid was so skinny he could walk through a rain storm and never get wet. Those who never saw him wouldn't believe how skinny he was. He could have been a poster boy for anorexia.

 

[And1Hawk]

Adding muscle can help with your athleticism especially if stretching and flexibility work is included.
I don't like the idea of getting Doyle on board...he has enough on his plate. Maybe Maxwell should be replaced. It is very concerning that Fran has finally figured this out but Barta is giving him plenty of time to get the program straightened out.

That’s all fine and I am not advocating against the idea of the redesign / remphasis on our strength & training program. I just want to wait and see if these efforts are going to be the ‘golden panacea’ that some on here are making it out to be.

 

[millhawk]

That’s all fine and I am not advocating against the idea of the redesign / remphasis on our strength & training program. I just want to wait and see if these efforts are going to be the ‘golden panacea’ that some on here are making it out to be.

No problem with that at all. Let's hope it helps...Lord knows they need it.

 

[RocknRollface]

I want to wait and see. I do agree that we are in need of adding some strength but this is not the 80’s or 90’s any more. In that area the game was dominated on the blocks and the league was full of bulked up players. Those days are gone. It’s all about athleticism, quickness laterally and skills. If we take a slow footed team and add muscle it’s going to remain slow. It could even get a half step slower. It may not have as much impact as you think.

Lack of strength just seems like a really lame excuse for lack of effort and mental grasp.

Talking about strength is like talking about icing on the cake but in this case there is no cake yet.

Fran needs to teach and coach defense differently.

 

[Hawksfor3]

Clayton Custer looks like a body builder compared to Jordan Bohannon. Their center looked like he needed to commit himself a little more but yes I’d take Custer, Ingram, Jackson, Richardson vs Bohannon, Moss, Baer, Garza in a squat or bench press contest any day. Cook is the only player of the starting 5 that looks like he knows where the Iowa weight room is located. The more I look at it. Bohannon, Moss, Baer, Garza may all be the physically weakest at their position in the B1G.

I just read the DMR article and listened to Fran over at Hawk Central. Fran indicated that all the players are hitting the weight room hard. He said they would look differently and that's good, I like that. He also said that they will be able to go big or small and that's good, I like that. He praised the newbies and said that they would "get it figured out" (sound familiar?) and that's good, I like that. He said that with what he has, including the newcomers that he doesn't have to go out and interview players to sign for the needs at point ( I assume) and that's good, I like that. Finally, he said that there would be changes on the defensive side and that's Great, I like that The Most.

 

[RocknRollface]

Now, for a change in mind on defensive coaching and we are set!

A complete 180 would be nice.

 

[RocknRollface]

Adding muscle can help with your athleticism especially if stretching and flexibility work is included.
I don't like the idea of getting Doyle on board...he has enough on his plate. Maybe Maxwell should be replaced. It is very concerning that Fran has finally figured this out but Barta is giving him plenty of time to get the program straightened out.

I doubt there is any chance at all of football staff spending their time on other sports.

 

[RocknRollface]

I just read the DMR article and listened to Fran over at Hawk Central. Fran indicated that all the players are hitting the weight room hard. He said they would look differently and that's good, I like that. He also said that they will be able to go big or small and that's good, I like that. He praised the newbies and said that they would "get it figured out" (sound familiar?) and that's good, I like that. He said that with what he has, including the newcomers that he doesn't have to go out and interview players to sign for the needs at point ( I assume) and that's good, I like that. Finally, he said that there would be changes on the defensive side and that's Great, I like that The Most.

Hes always said stuff like this. He said it last year.

 

[GRT2B1]

Iowa has an excellent Olympic strength and conditioning program. The women’s team, wrestlers and baseball squad improve and compete under the same system. This has only become an issue NOW since the season was such a disaster. The offensive stats were good. Although more conditioning can only be a good thing, I am hard-pressed to think that is the reason for the lack of progress or defense.

 

[RocknRollface]

Iowa has an excellent Olympic strength and conditioning program. The women’s team, wrestlers and baseball squad improve and compete under the same system. This has only become an issue NOW since the season was such a disaster. The offensive stats were good. Although more conditioning can only be a good thing, I am hard-pressed to think that is the reason for the lack of progress or defense.

Its not.

This team has way more fundamental problems.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Iowa has an excellent Olympic strength and conditioning program. The women’s team, wrestlers and baseball squad improve and compete under the same system. This has only become an issue NOW since the season was such a disaster. The offensive stats were good. Although more conditioning can only be a good thing, I am hard-pressed to think that is the reason for the lack of progress or defense.

Disagree. I have been unhappy with the S&C program for basketball for a long long time. Started my bitching about it when Dr. Tom was still coaching. The “program” may be fine but not if workouts are pretty much “optional” like they were for Davis teams.

 

[GRT2B1]

Workout def not optional! That was 20 years ago! In fact, one of the reasons Dr. Tom wasn’t renewed was his philosophy not to embrace s&c.

 

[Radar3454]

I doubt there is any chance at all of football staff spending their time on other sports.

I don't think they would work with players, but I'd hope they would consult with the staff.

Senior year Gatens is the goal - quicker, faster, more stamina, and still plenty strong.

Garza was strong for a freshman - going to be a beast to deal with for another 3 years. Hopefully he can get a bit quicker.

 

[millhawk]

Doyle has worked with some wrestlers in the past.

 

[HawkOn15]

I doubt there is any chance at all of football staff spending their time on other sports.

It won’t happen while Ferentz or Barta is here. Iowa is one of the few places where the football has their own individual staff.

 

[Ladell-hawk]

Hes always said stuff like this. He said it last year.

Right, with all due respect to Fran, they are going to have to show they can defend the 3 pt. line, and make it tougher for teams to drive down the lane on us.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Workout def not optional! That was 20 years ago! In fact, one of the reasons Dr. Tom wasn’t renewed was his philosophy not to embrace s&c.

Not saying it has been optional but Baer, Ellingson, Dailey, Bohannon, Moss, etc sure look like examples of an “optional” program. If they’ve been dedicated to it? It’s a bad program.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Lack of strength just seems like a really lame excuse for lack of effort and mental grasp.

Talking about strength is like talking about icing on the cake but in this case there is no cake yet.

Fran needs to teach and coach defense differently.

Mostly agree, I was about to post that strength between the ears (discipline, effort, BB IQ) is missing more than physical strength, although our guards are physically weak and Nunge needs some muscle. I want guys playing like they refuse to lose. Being able to kick a little butt along the way can't hurt.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Mostly agree, I was about to post that strength between the ears (discipline, effort, BB IQ) is missing more than physical strength, although our guards are physically weak and Nunge needs some muscle. I want guys playing like they refuse to lose. Being able to kick a little butt along the way can't hurt.

I don’t think you and rocknroll appeciate what being stronger DOES to the “between the ears” part of the game.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I don’t think you and rocknroll appeciate what being stronger DOES to the “between the ears” part of the game.

I exercise daily, but I don't think Iowa players mental deficiencies are the result of lack of physical strength. It might help a little with confidence, but if you have a low BB IQ or just don't care enough to give 100%, that is not the result of not being physically strong. Being motivated and drilled by your coaches and teammates can help, but sometimes you just don't have it.

 

[GRT2B1]

Agree. Wagner was ripped (strong) and it didn’t help his game.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Agree. Wagner was ripped (strong) and it didn’t help his game.

It helped him defend. Wagner lacked in basketball skills from the 1st day he walked on campus. Yes, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. If there aren't some skills there to begin with strength training ain't gonna help.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

I exercise daily, but I don't think Iowa players mental deficiencies are the result of lack of physical strength. It might a little with confidence, but if you have a low BB IQ or just don't care enough to give 100%, that is not the result of not being physically strong. Being motivated and drilled by your coaches and teammates can help, but sometimes you just don't have it.

In your opinion what players on this team have a "low basketball IQ"? (I have a couple in mind) Obviously it's not going to raise a players intelligence and if a player "just doesn't care enough to give 100%" I'd be shocked for him to give enough to get any results in the weight room anyway. I was a college coach (not basketball) long enough to see there was usually a correlation between those that dedicated themselves in the weight room to those that gave it all on the field.

 

[RocknRollface]

Mostly agree, I was about to post that strength between the ears (discipline, effort, BB IQ) is missing more than physical strength, although our guards are physically weak and Nunge needs some muscle. I want guys playing like they refuse to lose. Being able to kick a little butt along the way can't hurt.

Yeah, strength is great for defense but its not going to make any difference if your jogging back, not comunicating, and just generally dont understand what you're suposed to do.

I read their term "space holdings defense".

Ok, but most of defense is about getting low moving you're feet side to side.

Theres definitely training that can help that, but not unless you are actually trying to do it.

This is the most dysfunctional defensive team ive seen in a long time. And Fran, up to this point, has almost never rewarded good defense vs offense.

 

[cleotishaywood]

Teams like Loyola showed swagger and commitment on the defensive end during their run. They looked comfortable and showed confidence.
Maybe a shorter bench allows players to get into a better rhythm?

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

In your opinion what players on this team have a "low basketball IQ"? (I have a couple in mind) Obviously it's not going to raise a players intelligence and if a player "just doesn't care enough to give 100%" I'd be shocked for him to give enough to get any results in the weight room anyway. I was a college coach (not basketball) long enough to see there was usually a correlation between those that dedicated themselves in the weight room to those that gave it all on the field.

I would rather not single players out, but I do have a couple of players in mind who play significant minutes. Baer is the counterpoint to weight training. He has a great BB IQ and gives 100%, which allows him to be a plus player, despite having average skills and physical talent.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

I would rather not single players out, but I do have a couple of players in mind who play significant minutes. Baer is the counterpoint to weight training. He has a great BB IQ and gives 100%, which allows him to be a plus player, despite having average skills and physical talent.

Completely respect not wanting to call individuals out. I try not to myself.

 

[DodgerHawki]

Its not.

This team has way more fundamental problems.

Of all the issues with last year's team, I would put strength and conditioning near the bottom. No one appeared out of shape and Cook, Bohannon, Moss all had their offensive numbers marginally increase. It looks like guys spent time on their games last year in the off-season. What cratered was playing defense. Just zero commitment to it, no team understanding of how Iowa wanted to defend or play teams. Every aspect of the program should be examined (including S&C). And cool if the players have a renewed commitment. But it doesn't give me a great feeling that Fran blanketly states "we have it figured out." If defending can be that easily fixed, why was it never fixed last year? The answer is it's not an easy fix. The gap between Iowa's offense and defense last year was so wide it still shocks me. If a team is good enough to be Top 20 nationally in offensive efficiency, that indicates there is a good baseline skill level of the players on the roster. You just don't perform that well on offense without ability and an understanding of how to play. To turn around and be that bad on defense indicates lack of effort and poor coaching (probably some of both). If Iowa becomes average to above average on defense, it will be a huge turnaround.

 

[RocknRollface]

Of all the issues with last year's team, I would put strength and conditioning near the bottom. No one appeared out of shape and Cook, Bohannon, Moss all had their offensive numbers marginally increase. It looks like guys spent time on their games last year in the off-season. What cratered was playing defense. Just zero commitment to it, no team understanding of how Iowa wanted to defend or play teams. Every aspect of the program should be examined (including S&C). And cool if the players have a renewed commitment. But it doesn't give me a great feeling that Fran blanketly states "we have it figured out." If defending can be that easily fixed, why was it never fixed last year? The answer is it's not an easy fix. The gap between Iowa's offense and defense last year was so wide it still shocks me. If a team is good enough to be Top 20 nationally in offensive efficiency, that indicates there is a good baseline skill level of the players on the roster. You just don't perform that well on offense without ability and an understanding of how to play. To turn around and be that bad on defense indicates lack of effort and poor coaching (probably some of both). If Iowa becomes average to above average on defense, it will be a huge turnaround.

Yeah, the weight lifting thing is an obvious public deflection to distract from the real issue.

You can't just say, the truth - "We didn't play well on defense because our guys don't really understand it, don't try that hard and I went and entire season with out any serious attempt to correct it".

Or - what Frans probably thinking - "were going to keep working on offense and try to score even more points next year because points win."

 

[Legend12]

I would rather not single players out, but I do have a couple of players in mind who play significant minutes. Baer is the counterpoint to weight training. He has a great BB IQ and gives 100%, which allows him to be a plus player, despite having average skills and physical talent.

Baer’s BB IQ is greatly overrated by a lot of fans.

 

[RocknRollface]

Baer’s BB IQ is greatly overrated by a lot of fans.

He makes allot of mistakes with the ball in his hands because theres no one on the positionless team, including him, that can make a play off the dribble.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Baer’s BB IQ is greatly overrated by a lot of fans.

Who on the team has a better BB IQ?

 

[grhawk]

Iowa is a decade behind the times per usual.

More like 20 years. It's just unbelievable that Fran didn't understand this sooner!

 

[BirdistheWord]

I think the obvious question is, why weren't the guys doing weight training before?

Secrets of Previous Weight Training Program....

 

[Hawksfor3]

Secrets of Previous Weight Training Program....

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Good workout! The players can also build muscle and character outside of BB. Have a look.