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What I heard in church yesterday—a question for Christians

RagnarLothbrok

HB Heisman
Apr 4, 2023
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So, besides all the typical Easter pageantry and “He is Risen” stuff, the preacher talked about how the message of Easter is that everyone in the world is forgiven, no one has to do anything but “believe and receive,” and then you are free to go to heaven.

My question is this: What about all the people who were alive before the time of Jesus? Were all of them just screwed?
 
So, besides all the typical Easter pageantry and “He is Risen” stuff, the preacher talked about how the message of Easter is that everyone in the world is forgiven, no one has to do anything but “believe and receive,” and then you are free to go to heaven.

My question is this: What about all the people who were alive before the time of Jesus? Were all of them just screwed?
Correct. They get to live in the nicest circle of hell.
 
Before Christ came and died for us, people were judged by whether they followed the law (were obedient to God). For those who followed God’s laws perfectly (and repented and turned away from Sin), God judged them as righteous. Righteous people went to heaven - the others to hell.
 
So, besides all the typical Easter pageantry and “He is Risen” stuff, the preacher talked about how the message of Easter is that everyone in the world is forgiven, no one has to do anything but “believe and receive,” and then you are free to go to heaven.

My question is this: What about all the people who were alive before the time of Jesus? Were all of them just screwed?
Give it up, pervert!
 
Before Christ came and died for us, people were judged by whether they followed the law (were obedient to God). For those who followed God’s laws perfectly (and repented and turned away from Sin), God judged them as righteous. Righteous people went to heaven - the others to hell.
pulp fiction the path of the righteous man GIF
 
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So, besides all the typical Easter pageantry and “He is Risen” stuff, the preacher talked about how the message of Easter is that everyone in the world is forgiven, no one has to do anything but “believe and receive,” and then you are free to go to heaven.

My question is this: What about all the people who were alive before the time of Jesus? Were all of them just screwed?
Wouldn’t it make more sense to ask your pastor? I would think a student of theology would be able to answer that question better than people here.
 
@What Would Jesus Do?

Please lay this out again. Thank you.
Folks who chose to be born before resurrection simply made a bad choice. God will probably forgive them, if they are otherwise decent people. Or maybe send their souls back for another chance.

People who were born after resurrection but never heard the Jesus story,are in the same boat.

Those why have heard about resurrection and don't fully surrender to Jesus as their Lord and Savior deserve an eternity of torment.

Did I get that right?
 
So, besides all the typical Easter pageantry and “He is Risen” stuff, the preacher talked about how the message of Easter is that everyone in the world is forgiven, no one has to do anything but “believe and receive,” and then you are free to go to heaven.

My question is this: What about all the people who were alive before the time of Jesus? Were all of them just screwed?
The short answer, from a Catholic perspective, is no. May require a little more time in the waiting room, but no, they are not screwed.
 
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Folks who chose to be born before resurrection simply made a bad choice. God will probably forgive them, if they are otherwise decent people. Or maybe send their souls back for another chance.

People who were born after resurrection but never heard the Jesus story,are in the same boat.

Those why have heard about resurrection and don't fully surrender to Jesus as their Lord and Savior deserve an eternity of torment.

Did I get that right?

The concept of accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is a central tenet in many Christian faith traditions, and it is often accompanied by a belief in the transformative power of faith and divine grace to bring about positive change in individuals' lives. However, the reality is that human behavior is complex and multifaceted, and individuals who profess a belief in Jesus may still struggle with behaving in ways that align with the teachings of their faith.

There are several factors that may contribute to this apparent discrepancy between belief and behavior:

1. **Human Fallibility**: Despite their faith commitments, individuals are inherently fallible and subject to human weaknesses and shortcomings. Even sincere believers may struggle with temptations, flaws, and moral failings that lead them to behave in ways that are inconsistent with their professed beliefs.

2. **Cultural and Societal Influences**: The societies and cultures in which individuals live can exert significant influence on their behavior, attitudes, and values. Cultural norms, peer pressure, social expectations, and environmental factors can all play a role in shaping how individuals behave, sometimes leading them to prioritize worldly concerns over spiritual values.

3. **Personal Circumstances and Challenges**: Individuals may face personal challenges, hardships, or traumas that impact their behavior and decision-making. Difficult life circumstances, mental health struggles, addiction, and other personal challenges can undermine individuals' ability to live according to their professed beliefs.

4. **Misinterpretation or Misapplication of Religious Teachings**: Sometimes, individuals may misinterpret or misapply religious teachings, leading to inconsistencies between their beliefs and their actions. This can happen when religious teachings are misunderstood, selectively applied, or distorted to justify harmful behavior.

5. **Lack of Spiritual Growth and Discipleship**: For some individuals, accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior may be an initial step in their spiritual journey, but they may struggle to grow and mature in their faith or to live out the teachings of Jesus in their daily lives. A lack of spiritual mentorship, discipleship, or community support can hinder individuals' ability to grow in their faith and embody its principles.

It's important to recognize that while accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is a significant aspect of Christian faith, genuine faith is also reflected in one's actions, attitudes, and relationships. Christians are called to strive for moral integrity, compassion, humility, and love in their interactions with others, even as they acknowledge their own imperfections and reliance on divine grace for transformation. Ultimately, the journey of faith is a lifelong process of growth and transformation, and individuals may experience setbacks and challenges along the way as they seek to align their beliefs with their behavior.
 
Wouldn’t it make more sense to ask your pastor? I would think a student of theology would be able to answer that question better than people here.
I don’t have a pastor. I never attend church. Just went with my girlfriend and her family yesterday. My girlfriend is pretty indifferent to religion, like me, we were just going as a courtesy to her parents. The whole family thing.
 
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The concept of accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is a central tenet in many Christian faith traditions, and it is often accompanied by a belief in the transformative power of faith and divine grace to bring about positive change in individuals' lives. However, the reality is that human behavior is complex and multifaceted, and individuals who profess a belief in Jesus may still struggle with behaving in ways that align with the teachings of their faith.

There are several factors that may contribute to this apparent discrepancy between belief and behavior:

1. **Human Fallibility**: Despite their faith commitments, individuals are inherently fallible and subject to human weaknesses and shortcomings. Even sincere believers may struggle with temptations, flaws, and moral failings that lead them to behave in ways that are inconsistent with their professed beliefs.

2. **Cultural and Societal Influences**: The societies and cultures in which individuals live can exert significant influence on their behavior, attitudes, and values. Cultural norms, peer pressure, social expectations, and environmental factors can all play a role in shaping how individuals behave, sometimes leading them to prioritize worldly concerns over spiritual values.

3. **Personal Circumstances and Challenges**: Individuals may face personal challenges, hardships, or traumas that impact their behavior and decision-making. Difficult life circumstances, mental health struggles, addiction, and other personal challenges can undermine individuals' ability to live according to their professed beliefs.

4. **Misinterpretation or Misapplication of Religious Teachings**: Sometimes, individuals may misinterpret or misapply religious teachings, leading to inconsistencies between their beliefs and their actions. This can happen when religious teachings are misunderstood, selectively applied, or distorted to justify harmful behavior.

5. **Lack of Spiritual Growth and Discipleship**: For some individuals, accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior may be an initial step in their spiritual journey, but they may struggle to grow and mature in their faith or to live out the teachings of Jesus in their daily lives. A lack of spiritual mentorship, discipleship, or community support can hinder individuals' ability to grow in their faith and embody its principles.

It's important to recognize that while accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is a significant aspect of Christian faith, genuine faith is also reflected in one's actions, attitudes, and relationships. Christians are called to strive for moral integrity, compassion, humility, and love in their interactions with others, even as they acknowledge their own imperfections and reliance on divine grace for transformation. Ultimately, the journey of faith is a lifelong process of growth and transformation, and individuals may experience setbacks and challenges along the way as they seek to align their beliefs with their behavior.
OK, thanks.

Now, can you use those points to explain how Evangelicals can support Trump?

I'm serious. Which of those are the main factors in play from your point of view?

I'm operating on the assumption that you agree that this phenomenon (Evangelicals rabidly supporting Trump) is rather shocking.
 
Also the people living in North and South Americas between the death of Christ and the arrival of the European’s? They are SOL too? Get a free pass? Neither seems fair…
 
So, besides all the typical Easter pageantry and “He is Risen” stuff, the preacher talked about how the message of Easter is that everyone in the world is forgiven, no one has to do anything but “believe and receive,” and then you are free to go to heaven.

My question is this: What about all the people who were alive before the time of Jesus? Were all of them just screwed?
Are you a Christian?

If not why were you even in church yesterday?
 
So, besides all the typical Easter pageantry and “He is Risen” stuff, the preacher talked about how the message of Easter is that everyone in the world is forgiven, no one has to do anything but “believe and receive,” and then you are free to go to heaven.

My question is this: What about all the people who were alive before the time of Jesus? Were all of them just screwed?

What denomination was this?

Jesus said that everyone will be "rewarded according to his works" in Matthew 16. We're not saved just by faith.

Here's an article about "limbo" where the dead went before Jesus's resurrection.

 
Are you a Christian?

If not why were you even in church yesterday?
I'm not a christian and I go to support my wife and kids (no pics) ever so often. It's an inclusive church and everyone is incredibly nice, but it is an hour long brain washing ceremony every sunday. Everything there is a mind fook, the white robes, stained glass windows, statue of dead white handsome Jesus. It all distracts me from the actual Jesus message. Maybe 10 minutes of a sermon that is applicable to my life and I find the rest just songs and readings that might have a metaphorical moral, but everyone insists that the stories are non fiction.
 
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What denomination was this?

Jesus said that everyone will be "rewarded according to his works" in Matthew 16. We're not saved just by faith.

Here's an article about "limbo" where the dead went before Jesus's resurrection.

that's a different question...

It's sort of funny, once i was talking about various flavors of christianity with a jewish friend, and noting the faith alone v. faith and works issue among catholics and protestants. his take was that judaism, when you cut through it, was basically just works (ie, the Law)
 
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that's a different question...

It's sort of funny, once i was talking about various flavors of christianity with a jewish friend, and noting the faith alone v. faith and works issue among catholics and protestants. his take was that judaism, when you cut through it, was basically just works (ie, the Law)

Faith alone is contradicted by Jesus.
 
I'm not a christian and I go to support my wife and kids (no pics) ever so often. It's an inclusive church and everyone is incredibly nice, but it is an hour long brain washing ceremony every sunday. Everything there is a mind fook, the white robes, stained glass windows, statue of dead white handsome Jesus. It all distracts me from the actual Jesus message. Maybe 10 minutes of a sermon that is applicable to my life and I find the rest just songs and readings that might have a metaphorical moral, but everyone insists that the stories are non fiction.
I bet you're just loads of fun on the drive to and from the church services.
 
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Long lines to get into heaven? Doesn't sound too blissful. Place I thought the scriptures said at the rapture, everyone leaves at the same time.
 
So, besides all the typical Easter pageantry and “He is Risen” stuff, the preacher talked about how the message of Easter is that everyone in the world is forgiven, no one has to do anything but “believe and receive,” and then you are free to go to heaven.

My question is this: What about all the people who were alive before the time of Jesus? Were all of them just screwed?
Screwed, just like all the people that paid off their student loans when they were supposed to.
 
So, to Catholics, there’s a long line outside the pearly gates? Lol.
Yeah. But it gets shortened if you happen to be pro-choice. You go straight to hell. 🙄
That’s why I don’t understand why these “pro life” people aren’t okay with people choosing a different viewpoint.
I mean who isn’t okay with shorter lines?
🤯
 
OK, thanks.

Now, can you use those points to explain how Evangelicals can support Trump?

I'm serious. Which of those are the main factors in play from your point of view?

I'm operating on the assumption that you agree that this phenomenon (Evangelicals rabidly supporting Trump) is rather shocking.

There is only one factor; Fear

1. **Lack of Critical Thinking Skills**: Low-educated individuals may have limited critical thinking skills or information literacy, which can make them more vulnerable to manipulation by fear-based messaging. They may be less equipped to critically evaluate political claims or to discern between fact and fiction, leading them to be swayed by fear-mongering rhetoric.

2. **Religious Authority**: In some cases, religious leaders or institutions may exert significant influence over the beliefs and behaviors of their followers, including their political views. When religious leaders use fear-based tactics to promote a particular political agenda, their followers may feel compelled to vote in accordance with these directives, even if it goes against their own best interests or values.

3. **Cultural and Social Factors**: Religion often plays a central role in shaping individuals' cultural identities and social networks. Low-educated voters who are deeply entrenched in religious communities may feel pressure to conform to the beliefs and attitudes prevalent within those communities, including those that are based on fear or distrust of certain political ideologies or groups.

4. **Socioeconomic Insecurity**: Low-educated voters may be more likely to experience socioeconomic insecurity, including economic hardship, unemployment, or lack of access to healthcare and education. Fear-based messaging that exploits these insecurities, such as portraying certain political candidates or policies as threats to their way of life or well-being, may resonate strongly with these voters, leading them to vote based on fear of potential negative outcomes.

5. **Cognitive Biases and Heuristics**: Research in psychology has shown that individuals often rely on cognitive shortcuts or heuristics, such as emotional responses or gut instincts, when making decisions, particularly in complex or uncertain situations. Fear appeals can tap into these cognitive biases, triggering emotional responses that override rational decision-making processes and lead individuals to vote based on fear rather than reasoned analysis.

Overall, low-educated voters who base their voting decisions on religion may be particularly susceptible to voting based on fear due to a combination of limited critical thinking skills, influence from religious authority figures, cultural and social pressures, socioeconomic insecurity, and cognitive biases. Addressing these underlying factors requires efforts to improve education, promote critical thinking skills, foster inclusive and tolerant religious communities, and provide support for socioeconomic well-being.
 
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