Ohio St Wrestling 2015 Big Ten Co-Champs. Hand it to Tom Ryan.
Tanning beds, Tom Ryan knew eventually that investment would pay off....
Tanning beds, Tom Ryan knew eventually that investment would pay off....
What is Iowa missing?
- Thread starter JosiahJackson
- Start date
Iowa is missing offense; I think that was established a long time ago. Guys like Evans needs to worry less about looking like a bad a$$ and start proving he's one. I love the shoving and stuff, but if you're going to do it, at least make sure you're scoring points and making the other guy look bad. I don't know how many of our guys are hurt, but I'm hoping that's the case to why we lack so much offense.
I'm thinking more and more that it's coaching style. Not saying T&T aren't good coaches at some things, but it seems like other teams are more match ready than our guys. Motivation wise, stategy wise, preparedness wise. Look back at Penn State. We won, but we should have rolled them. Cael had them prepared when they went on the mat. Mizzu too.
When guys can circle out of a tie and do it while backing up with out a stalling call, it is time to change your style. That straight ahead pushing and straight ahead shots are not beating the best kids anymore.
The Iowa style of years ago was effective in the sport years ago. It is a different sport now and if the Iowa style does not adapt and change to the new style, they will continue to have problems.
I am kind of old school and I am surprised every time Iowa doesn't win a title. However, it seems like other schools are not and the younger kids of today do not remember or have never seen first hand the Iowa domination of the past. In their minds, it is exactly that - something from the past, but not anything of the present.
If you look at it honestly, Iowas got a few good breaks in the tourney to even tie for a title. Steiber being hurt and the PSU guy mff to Brooks for 2 extra team points. Maybe the Gods are finally smiling down on Iowa again and things will go their way in St. Louis. Who knows?
The Iowa style of years ago was effective in the sport years ago. It is a different sport now and if the Iowa style does not adapt and change to the new style, they will continue to have problems.
I am kind of old school and I am surprised every time Iowa doesn't win a title. However, it seems like other schools are not and the younger kids of today do not remember or have never seen first hand the Iowa domination of the past. In their minds, it is exactly that - something from the past, but not anything of the present.
If you look at it honestly, Iowas got a few good breaks in the tourney to even tie for a title. Steiber being hurt and the PSU guy mff to Brooks for 2 extra team points. Maybe the Gods are finally smiling down on Iowa again and things will go their way in St. Louis. Who knows?
look left, my thoughts exactly, excellent post. One more thing, people used to fear Iowa. Not so much anymore.
Having 5 seniors without a single Big title under their belt definitely is a factor. In Iowa's defense, they have done pretty well with a recruiting class that did not pan out. Not many schools could have been as successful as Iowa that past 5 years (and they still may win it all in St. Louis) with a recruiting class that did not pan out. I feel the coaches are getting as much as they can out of the kids they have.
I have always thought that the kind of kid Iowa seems to recruit would be the easiest ones to over estimate in high school. A hard working, physical maniac who has solid fundamentals and pushes the pace and wrestles every chance he gets is going to beat a lot of other more talented high school kids. However, they are also the ones who get passed up in college by the talented kids when the talented kids get stronger and get more solid fundamentals.
I have always thought that the kind of kid Iowa seems to recruit would be the easiest ones to over estimate in high school. A hard working, physical maniac who has solid fundamentals and pushes the pace and wrestles every chance he gets is going to beat a lot of other more talented high school kids. However, they are also the ones who get passed up in college by the talented kids when the talented kids get stronger and get more solid fundamentals.
My 2 cents:
1. We have too many guys who are plodders/grinders/limited athletes whatever term you want to use. With the change in stalling and other teams getting in shape as well people just don't break anymore from heavy hands grinding. Gilman, Clark, Sorensen (when he uses it), Brooks (most of the time) and Telford are the only guys who are there with most of the competition on an athletic level. Josh is not overly strong and slower feet, Kelly is very limited, Moore is stiff and slow feet, Evans is stiff with slow feet, Burak wrestles stiff a lot too, foot work has gotten a bit better. Need more athletic recruits..
2. For whatever reason our offensive variety is very poor. We do the most basic of basic in most all poitions. Basic can be fine but you need some variety at times to take advantage of situations. Cradles- almost never. Turks-rare, Tilts- here and there. Guys need to be able to perform a number of different attacks from neutral and perform them to either side. We have a couple guys who have like 1 or 2 shots and that is it! Easy to scout that. On a related note we are poor in scrambles as well. We need guys who can score from neutral and get off bottom. I kind of feel many guys go backwards with their skill levels or tighten up. Dziewa and Evans used to have a lot more weapons. Brooks has faded in skills throughout the year. Moore and Kelly are like down to nothing. Sure you don't want to be sloppy but I think you can still score a bunch in many ways without being sloppy.
1. We have too many guys who are plodders/grinders/limited athletes whatever term you want to use. With the change in stalling and other teams getting in shape as well people just don't break anymore from heavy hands grinding. Gilman, Clark, Sorensen (when he uses it), Brooks (most of the time) and Telford are the only guys who are there with most of the competition on an athletic level. Josh is not overly strong and slower feet, Kelly is very limited, Moore is stiff and slow feet, Evans is stiff with slow feet, Burak wrestles stiff a lot too, foot work has gotten a bit better. Need more athletic recruits..
2. For whatever reason our offensive variety is very poor. We do the most basic of basic in most all poitions. Basic can be fine but you need some variety at times to take advantage of situations. Cradles- almost never. Turks-rare, Tilts- here and there. Guys need to be able to perform a number of different attacks from neutral and perform them to either side. We have a couple guys who have like 1 or 2 shots and that is it! Easy to scout that. On a related note we are poor in scrambles as well. We need guys who can score from neutral and get off bottom. I kind of feel many guys go backwards with their skill levels or tighten up. Dziewa and Evans used to have a lot more weapons. Brooks has faded in skills throughout the year. Moore and Kelly are like down to nothing. Sure you don't want to be sloppy but I think you can still score a bunch in many ways without being sloppy.
While I don't disagree with these two (and Clark) they are mostly doing it against second tier talent. Of course, there are exceptions, like Clark riding Dardanes yesterday. As a whole, however, generally against top level talent we lack in mat wrestling. Gilman, Sorensen, Telford all lost today due to being inferior mat wrestlers to their opponents. I could throw in Jeva but that wouldn't really be fair
Really not sure what you mean by the "Iowa style". Like I tell folks on the PSU board, skill trumps style pretty much every time. Style is much overrated IMO. If you don't the skills to back it up, an aggressive, attacking style is almost sure to backfire.
And while I fully agree that stalling isn't enforced (much to the detriment of college wrestling), IMO Iowa is just as guilty of stalling tactics as most other teams (obviously, it varies with the individual wrestler).
A couple of blue chip level ass kickers. It's unreal to me we've not had one since Metcalf. We are Iowa for craps sake. What guys like that are capable of is overcoming the "get 1 takedown and stall/defend/defend run strategy" bc they are simply elite enough talent wise to impose their will no matter what an opponent wants to do. We need elite level talent, plain and simple.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
If you think about it. We won a co championship with a bum 165 a below average 157 and our top seed at 184 going down first rd. Uh that's pretty good. But let's just blame the coaching. That's the easy route. Maybe your hype of the Hawks is too much. People on here had Brooks and Clark title contenders before the season started. Sorry but I think we have the most balanced team in four years this year but not one true superstar. Sorenson is the only one to exceed expectations by a mile. Is that not coaching help? Gilman has done pretty well and Clark is wrestling better now than all year. Jeva had a good tournament. Evans placed exactly where he should. He can't beat Brown or Kokesh. He is 3rd best at the weight no questions asked. Brooks wrestled back after a terrible first rd. Something has to get some coaches some credit somewhere.
OSU will have 6 AA one for sure champ. OSU has had a lights out recruiting class the last two years. Mizzu is the team to beat anyways. They are very very top heavy.
OSU will have 6 AA one for sure champ. OSU has had a lights out recruiting class the last two years. Mizzu is the team to beat anyways. They are very very top heavy.
Wrestling in General is awful. You can change rules yada yada. At one point today they reviewed on camera if it was a stalling warning! At this point you have to look yourself in the mirror. We're reviewing a stalling warning!
Wake up call. This sport is dying and deserving so.
Major rule changes need to come. And soon.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Wake up call. This sport is dying and deserving so.
Major rule changes need to come. And soon.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
point #1: Iowa used to have an edge on intensity/conditioning/mental toughness, and sometimes technique. The gap is narrowed if it's there at all anymore. Athleticism/explosiveness and scrambling ability is what provides the edge in lots of high level matches nowadays. So, coach Brands, please bring guys in who show quick-twitch athleticism.
Maybe someday people will realize that wrestling has changed since the 80's & 90's. It was A LOT easier to just push the pace and score back then. Unless you are a extremly gifted athlete it it so difficult to score due to the overall defensive coaching tactics used today. Add to the fact how many wrestlers back then dived for a ankle/foot to create a scramble. Conditioning for opposing teams is NOT really a issue anymore either. Iowa's success has caught up with us. I could go on and on with things about the sport that have changed since the the 80's & 90's but I'm probably wasting my time with most our fanbase.
I agree with Spoons. I've been thinking about ^this^ lately. For fun, here are links to the 1937 and 1956 NCAA championships. While this is an extreme example, who could say with a straight face that the caliber, style, and overall type of wrestling hasn't changed since these?
Or, compare these to Gable's day. Then compare Gable's day to the Brands era. Then compare the Brands era to now.
Our sport is a complex, sophisticated, and endless study, despite how simple it is on its face. Thats part of why its the greatest sport in the world.
Oh, and back to the topic of this thread -- I am saving my bellyaching for, if anything, 2 weeks from now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYdiJxH78oo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hw9blf_aUg
Or, compare these to Gable's day. Then compare Gable's day to the Brands era. Then compare the Brands era to now.
Our sport is a complex, sophisticated, and endless study, despite how simple it is on its face. Thats part of why its the greatest sport in the world.
Oh, and back to the topic of this thread -- I am saving my bellyaching for, if anything, 2 weeks from now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYdiJxH78oo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hw9blf_aUg
Here's a few things to think about guys.
125: Gilman is something like 9-1 now against Tomasello and Delgado was a eyelash from beating him in the semis. I'll take those odds for Gilman any day of the week and Tomasello. Gilman can beat anybody and he will prove it in 2 weeks.
133: Clark was 7 seconds from taking the #1 ranked kid in out and wrestling pretty damn good right now.
141: Taking out Dardanes does nothing for you guys? Tough crowd. Seriously he had a Great tournament and looks poised to be a top 5 guy at NCAAS.
149: Oh my god he's 1-1 vs the defending National Champ and worse case senerio a 4 seed at Nationals as a Freshemen. Probably finishes there worse case senerio also.
157: Kelly gives it his all but just not talented enough. He would have been GREAT 10-20 years ago!!
165: Moore IS not near 100% probably closer to 50% probably get in trouble for that but if u only new.
174: While Evans is not real flashly he is the 3rd best kid at his weight. TOUGH crowd if being a 3 time AA and the 3rd best kid in the country is just ok.
184: If not for a Brainfart with 6 seconds to go Sammy's in the finals. Sammy only lost to Dechow by 1 and is right there with anybody not named Dean. Plus not winning BIGS probably helped him and put him on the other side of Dean now.
197
o you guys realize how close Burak was to beating Synder and Schiller? He has closed the gap on Schiller for sure. Worst case Scenerio he gets 6th at Nationals and after watching him live this weekend he Does have a pretty good shot at 3rd.
Hwt: Bob had it won outright for us until he lost his balance fighting off a shot. He's the 3 seed at Nationals and I Like his chances to win it all!!!
125: Gilman is something like 9-1 now against Tomasello and Delgado was a eyelash from beating him in the semis. I'll take those odds for Gilman any day of the week and Tomasello. Gilman can beat anybody and he will prove it in 2 weeks.
133: Clark was 7 seconds from taking the #1 ranked kid in out and wrestling pretty damn good right now.
141: Taking out Dardanes does nothing for you guys? Tough crowd. Seriously he had a Great tournament and looks poised to be a top 5 guy at NCAAS.
149: Oh my god he's 1-1 vs the defending National Champ and worse case senerio a 4 seed at Nationals as a Freshemen. Probably finishes there worse case senerio also.
157: Kelly gives it his all but just not talented enough. He would have been GREAT 10-20 years ago!!
165: Moore IS not near 100% probably closer to 50% probably get in trouble for that but if u only new.
174: While Evans is not real flashly he is the 3rd best kid at his weight. TOUGH crowd if being a 3 time AA and the 3rd best kid in the country is just ok.
184: If not for a Brainfart with 6 seconds to go Sammy's in the finals. Sammy only lost to Dechow by 1 and is right there with anybody not named Dean. Plus not winning BIGS probably helped him and put him on the other side of Dean now.
197
o you guys realize how close Burak was to beating Synder and Schiller? He has closed the gap on Schiller for sure. Worst case Scenerio he gets 6th at Nationals and after watching him live this weekend he Does have a pretty good shot at 3rd.Hwt: Bob had it won outright for us until he lost his balance fighting off a shot. He's the 3 seed at Nationals and I Like his chances to win it all!!!
