What should be the penalty for flopping?

[OnceAhawk]

In the NBA, if you flop you get fined.

What should be the penalty in the college game? A technical foul?

Wisconsin is, unfortunately, very good at the art of the flop.

Kaminsky had a 100%, abolute flop in the Arizona game and I am sure Dekker flopped near the end of the Kentucky game (it was unclear by the 2 different camera angles but Dekker went down way too easily); both times the flop prevented a possible score and it gave Wisconsin the ball.

It is just annoying as hell when the charge is called and the Wisconsin player springs up with a big smile on their face.

Something has to be done. This is basketball, not acting school.




This post was edited on 4/5 11:11 AM by OnceAhawk

 

[crHawkeye92]

The only thing I can think of is if the refs are reviewing a play and they determine that you're flopping, then you get a technical foul.

 

[Vbeachawk]

technical foul (2 shots and ball to team shooting ft's) and can review at any time.

 

[HawkLogic]

In years of pickup B-ball, I never saw a guy fall backwards and land on his azz from a charge. Of course these are all Flops to exaggerate normal contact. It is acting and Bo Ryan has got a team full of oscar winners.

Anytime you land on your ass with minimal contact, it should be automatic foul because it is dangerous for other players to be tripping over.


MSU's Trice and Gasser for Wisconsin are two of the worst in College B-ball.

That said, since the game is called that way, guys like Woodbury and Whitey and Jok and Ogelsby should have been flopping specialist. Fran doesn't teach it.

I've only seen McCabe, Gesell, and a little bit of Clemmons doing the flop/trying to take charges.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Originally posted by HawkLogic:
In years of pickup B-ball, I never saw a guy fall backwards and land on his azz from a charge. Of course these are all Flops to exaggerate normal contact. It is acting and Bo Ryan has got a team full of oscar winners.

Anytime you land on your ass with minimal contact, it should be automatic foul because it is dangerous for other players to be tripping over.


MSU's Trice and Gasser for Wisconsin are two of the worst in College B-ball.

That said, since the game is called that way, guys like Woodbury and Whitey and Jok and Ogelsby should have been flopping specialist. Fran doesn't teach it.

I've only seen McCabe, Gesell, and a little bit of Clemmons doing the flop/trying to take charges.

Good point. The flopping player could fall into someone's leg(s) and injure someone!

Yeah, I am not sad to see the flopper Trice graduating. Another good example.

I have heard some say if a flop occurs that you should just play on but some of these flops are beyond ridiculous. These big strong kids are barely touched and they fall like a house of cards.

I would rather see a technical, 2 shot foul plus the ball called. That way the players will be coached to stay strong when defending and to not back down.

 

[09Hawk]

The only way to get rid of flopping is for the refs to start calling an offensive without the defender having to fall over. No matter how out of control the ball handler is, if the defender doesn't fall the refs will call a block 90% of the time. Its a shame that a defender can be in perfect defensive position, but feels he has to flop in order to get a charge call.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Hawk Logic is spot on. Flopping is dangerous. Its also bad for the game.

Just like the flagrant foul rule a flopping rule needs to be created and the refs trained on how to enforce it.

A good place to start would be prohibiting intentionally falling to the ground before contact with an offensive player or upon limited and incidental contact with the offensive player. If the "flopping" results in contact with an adversary its a foul and the contacted player shoots the free throws. If you flop and knock down an official (we've all seen this as well) its a T. Officials could interpret this rule as well as they can interpret any other incidental contact rule.

 

[Scott559]

Unless the way the game is called is changed drastically I don't know how you can get rid of flopping, Why is it not an offensive/charging foul if a player is in perfect defensive position but he is 6-7 215lbs, A 6-10 guy that weighs 260 can just knock him backwards with his ass or hips, The offensive guy initiated the contact, The defensive guy had established position, yet we see this constantly and are told that the player needs to get stronger. Reality, establishing position is almost worthless down low, It's all about muscling up. If you really want to stop flopping, Stop guys banging guys out of position when they have the ball in their hands as well. It's a two way street.

 

[slipHawk]

That flop ruined the game for me. Up until then I was enjoying the play. That and the ghost shot (scored after holding the ball at zero secs). The refs were terrible! Kentucky still choked but the refs sure gave Wisky a boost. I'd much rather watch the players determine the game.

 

[HoustonHawkeye]

Trice was pathetic. What a loser. He fake snapped his head back a couple of times in the tournament. Review it by monitor. Technical foul the first time, technical foul and ejection the second time, technical foul and 1 game suspension the third time...etc. Roll them over from game to game. That would clean up that BS quickly.

 

[hawkfan55]

Agree with Houston, especially about what I refer to as the head flop. Yogi F. is even worse than Trice. Whenever he's driving by someone, if there's minimal contact, his head flies back like he was shot, sometimes twice on the same drive. It's ridiculous.

 

[HawkImania1]

No penalty should be given for flopping. A foul is called and only called when an unfair advantage is made or a unsportsmanlike behavior is being used. In neither case is falling to the floor a disadvantage to the player with the ball. The player with the ball is given an advantage if he flops cus he isnt being guard any longer. Its not unsportsmanship cus he isnt harming or acting in inappropriate behavior.

The way to end flopping is to for the refs to be better trained in this area and not blow the whistle. If flopping results in easy points for the opposing team, the behavior will stop.Flopping is bball isnt a player problem its a reffing problem

I would like to see them call hooking on spin moves like they used to and offensive shooters guarding the ball with off hand when shooting like they used to.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Originally posted by 09Hawk:
The only way to get rid of flopping is for the refs to start calling an offensive without the defender having to fall over. No matter how out of control the ball handler is, if the defender doesn't fall the refs will call a block 90% of the time. Its a shame that a defender can be in perfect defensive position, but feels he has to flop in order to get a charge call.

you DO NOT have to flop to get a charge called; for a charge to be called, you have to

* have your feet planted and you can't be moving when the offensive players runs into you

* show your hands and move your feet when guarding a dribbling offensive player

 

[EagleHawk]

Originally posted by Scott559:
Unless the way the game is called is changed drastically I don't know how you can get rid of flopping, Why is it not an offensive/charging foul if a player is in perfect defensive position but he is 6-7 215lbs, A 6-10 guy that weighs 260 can just knock him backwards with his ass or hips, The offensive guy initiated the contact, The defensive guy had established position, yet we see this constantly and are told that the player needs to get stronger. Reality, establishing position is almost worthless down low, It's all about muscling up. If you really want to stop flopping, Stop guys banging guys out of position when they have the ball in their hands as well. It's a two way street.

Yep, I think that this all started when Shaq was in college. He would constantly get hammered every time he touched the ball, so he just took it the other way, push the guy out of the way and dunk it.

If you don't lower your shoulder as an offensive player, you can do whatever you want. The moment you dip your shoulder into a defensive player, they are going to call it.

 

[SSG T]

Of all of the foul call/non call issues I have with college reffing, flopping is about #68 on the list. It's nowhere near the issue that the hand checking, grabbing, impeding the ball handler, arm bars (both offense/defense), pushing, using ones body to "bump" an offensive or defensive player out of the lane.

Flopping occurs because the refs don't call the charge/block call correctly. They start calling that correctly, flopping will take care of itself.
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[hawkeyeguy69]

This. I have been clamoring for an assbump rule since the days of Shaquille O'Neal. That guy just bounces on players until all he has to do is flip in a simple layup. That is NOT basketball.

On the previous post about McCabe flopping, he wasn't a flopper. He was a sacrifice-your-body type of player. He was hammered numerous times for doing so. The rule change did not do him any good. But I liked his toughness in trying to take a charge.

Originally posted by Scott559:
Unless the way the game is called is changed drastically I don't know how you can get rid of flopping, Why is it not an offensive/charging foul if a player is in perfect defensive position but he is 6-7 215lbs, A 6-10 guy that weighs 260 can just knock him backwards with his ass or hips, The offensive guy initiated the contact, The defensive guy had established position, yet we see this constantly and are told that the player needs to get stronger. Reality, establishing position is almost worthless down low, It's all about muscling up. If you really want to stop flopping, Stop guys banging guys out of position when they have the ball in their hands as well. It's a two way street.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I hate the number of wrong charges that are called, but it is tough to fix because there are times where a player clearly has his position established. The offensive player is either a step slow or out of control and just runs him down. This is especially true when a guard is trying to stop a big guy going to the basket, and size difference make drawing a charge about the only way to stop the basket. If the officials were more reluctant to call charges and gave a foul to the defensive player unless position was CLEARLY established, it would cut down on the attempts to draw fouls. Moving out the no-charge line (as they did in the NIT) would also help. I hope they make that change next year.

The whiplash act that Trice, Yogi, Melo and many of the guards are now doing bothers me even more than charges. I don't want to have more replay stoppage, so this is also tough to correct, because officials aren't always in position to see whether there was a foul or an act. When officials see that it was an act and there was no contact (and officials should help each other on the call), I think a technical foul should be assessed. A second call in the same game should then result in an ejection, like a second technical.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Why should there be a penalty? Just don't call a charge. The penalty is getting stomped on because you're lying on the floor or your guy gets an easy bucket.

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

Flopping causes players around the flopper to fall and frequently cause the "charging" player to fall awkwardly because of the landing zone, so to speak, is uneven rather than the nice easy level floor.

Plus its become an epidemic that must be curbed. Just no reason to encourage it.

 

[denmar81]

A bench player of the opposing team gets to kick the flopper square in the nuts. That should eliminate the problem.

 

[hawkisak]

10 years in prison with no parole should do it!

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

denmar...you're talking about Isiah Thomas, right?[/B]

 

[DanL53]

Originally posted by hawkeyeguy69:
This. I have been clamoring for an assbump rule since the days of Shaquille O'Neal. That guy just bounces on players until all he has to do is flip in a simple layup. That is NOT basketball.

On the previous post about McCabe flopping, he wasn't a flopper. He was a sacrifice-your-body type of player. He was hammered numerous times for doing so. The rule change did not do him any good. But I liked his toughness in trying to take a charge.

Originally posted by Scott559:
Unless the way the game is called is changed drastically I don't know how you can get rid of flopping, Why is it not an offensive/charging foul if a player is in perfect defensive position but he is 6-7 215lbs, A 6-10 guy that weighs 260 can just knock him backwards with his ass or hips, The offensive guy initiated the contact, The defensive guy had established position, yet we see this constantly and are told that the player needs to get stronger. Reality, establishing position is almost worthless down low, It's all about muscling up. If you really want to stop flopping, Stop guys banging guys out of position when they have the ball in their hands as well. It's a two way street.




Agreed on McCabe and it hurt his chances of getting a charge called. Flopping allows one's feet to stay planted longer. Better choreography, I guess.


Edit; I forgot my two cents on the caught flopping penalty.

Just cut that Achilles tendon at the back of their ankle and they won't be able to put any weight on it.

This post was edited on 4/6 7:44 PM by DanL53