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What should happen to this kid?

The Tradition

HB King
Apr 23, 2002
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DAYTONA BEACH — An aspiring pilot told officials he was surprised to learn it was a crime to point a laser at an aircraft and said he had just been playing with the green beam of light by pointing it at the sky.

Gerardo Sanchez, 23, was charged by police with pointing a laser at a driver/pilot. His arraignment is set for Jan. 28.

Sanchez of Daytona Beach told police he had been flying for two years and had just started flight training at ATP Flight School at Daytona Beach International Airport.

According to his arrest report, Sanchez was walking near the airport about 10 p.m. Jan. 3 when an American Airlines pilot landing an airliner was hit by a green laser for about one to two seconds. The other pilot saw the laser but the light did not strike him. The green beam also hit two air traffic controllers in the airport’s tower, the report said. Sanchez admitted to having a green laser on him when Officer Shawna Conley confronted him.

“Why you pointing it at planes?” Conley can be heard saying on a police body camera video obtained this week.

“At planes no, no, I pointed at the sky,” Sanchez replied, and he held his hand up as if clutching a laser.

“Right, right, you realize you were pointing in the sky at the direction of planes, right, which is a federal offense, bro?” Conley said.

“What?” Sanchez said incredulously.

“Yeah, cause if you shine a light and cause a plane to crash or cause a pilot to have a problem, that’s a almost a capital crime, bro,” Conley said.

(MORE: FBI's awareness campaign about lasers.)

Federal law calls for five years in prison and up to $11,000 fine for someone aiming a laser at an aircraft. A person can also be charged federally with interfering with a flight crew which is punishable by 20 years in prison.

Sanchez has not been formally charged but if prosecutors believe the laser injured someone, he could face a second-degree felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison. If prosecutors decide no one was injured, Sanchez could face a third-degree felony, punishable by up to five years in prison.

Sanchez's Fort Lauderdale attorney Gustavo Frances said that state statute makes it against the law for someone "knowingly and willfully" to shine a laser at a pilot. The law makes no mention of air traffic controllers, Frances said.

"Police have to establish that he willfully and intentionally aimed it at the pilot," Frances said. "He did not aim it at the pilot."

Frances, who has yet to see the police video, also said that he and Sanchez were not admitting even a basic issue.

"We are not admitting that he used a laser at all," Frances said.

Frances said he was retained by Sanchez's family but declined to discuss what brought Sanchez to Daytona Beach or anything about his client's background.

At his apartment this week, Sanchez said he was no longer a student at ATP but declined to say why or answer any other questions, saying his lawyer had advised him not to talk.

But Sanchez was more talkative when police stopped him on that Sunday night on Clyde Morris Boulevard near the Bellevue Avenue Extension. Sanchez said he had been a pilot for two years in his native Guatemala. Sanchez told police that he had been training at ATP for a month or two.

He said he recently got the laser after ordering it online. Sanchez on the video said he wanted to apologize to airport personnel.

Conley tells him one just arrived referring to airport operations agent Ed Fust who drove to the scene.

“Apparently, there was a misunderstanding,” Conley tells Fust. “He just got it and he was just shining it up in the sky. He didn’t realize where he was at,”

Fust asked Sanchez for the laser and he hands it over. Fust aims it down, switches it on and a bright green circle appears on the sidewalk.

“We just had a commercial (plane) land. It’s not a joke. It’s not a misunderstanding,” Fust said.

Fust later said the laser beam also hit two small planes besides the airliner.

"I was not really aiming for the aircraft, like I was explaining to the officer, the aircraft might have struck the path of the light," Sanchez tells Fust. "I was not, that was not the goal, like to aim at the airplane."

Sanchez asks about what will happen to him.

“I’m not going to jail or anything am I?” Sanchez said.

The officer tells him she is still investigating but Sanchez was later handcuffed and taken to the Volusia County Branch Jail, where he ramained for two days until he was released on $1,500 bail.

At one point several officers stand around Sanchez and someone out of view of the camera questions him, apparently checking if he is aware of news reports of people pointing lasers at planes.

“You watch the news or anything,” the person asks.

“I try not to, really,” Sanchez said.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20160119/NEWS/160119507/0/search
 
Have him tried and if found guilty sentenced. . . There may be an issue of proving intent here and he may be acquitted on that account. However while 2 seconds doesn't sound like much at the speeds a plane is traveling I should think it impossible to accidentally hit a plane for 2 straight seconds. An accidental hitting of a plane would only likely be a fraction of a second.

We should remove the parts of the law requiring intent.

To put it quite frankly, pointing a laser pointer into the sky is so irresponsible that even accidentally hitting a plane with it would require sentencing.

You are responsible for having the proper knowledge and the responsible use of anything you own be it a car, a gun, a laser pointer, a blender, or a freaking tuba. If you put people in danger or someone gets hurt or killed due to your irresponsibility then you face criminal consequences for that.
 
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I've got one of those small lasers to tease my cat with...could it cause trouble for a pilot if I pointed it at a plane?
 
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I've got one of those small lasers to tease my cat with...could it cause trouble for a pilot if I pointed it at a plane?

Yes it can blind them and make it difficult if not impossible for them to fly. It is a federal crime to do this.
 
My boss is a pilot and he tells me this is a much larger problem than people know. He said he’s been “lit up” over a dozen times while on approach, and that doesn’t count the times someone pointed a laser at him and missed. It doesn’t take much to cause a catastrophic problem while trying to bring an airplane to the ground safely.
I find it very difficult to believe this moron has been flying for two years and doesn’t know the dangers of lasers being pointed at airplanes. Hopefully, his flight training days are over.
 
He's 23, hardly a kid. I wouldn't give him jail time but a significant fine is warranted.

But....butt..... before doing that, an old fashion paddling in the town square at high noon would
be good too.

Biggest-Reddest-Babboon-Ass-You-Will-See-Today.jpg
 
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23 or not, seems like a dumb kid to me. And this doesn't seem like something that we must ruin his life over.

He is lying to the police first and foremost. He certainly meant to point it at the aircraft. It would be impossible for an aspiring pilot to "accidentally" hit the commercial cockpit for a couple of seconds and also aim the thing at the control tower.

So to recap, he broke a law knowingly and he lied about it afterwards. whatever the punishment can be for this crime, I would hope he receives it.
 
My boss is a pilot and he tells me this is a much larger problem than people know. He said he’s been “lit up” over a dozen times while on approach, and that doesn’t count the times someone pointed a laser at him and missed. It doesn’t take much to cause a catastrophic problem while trying to bring an airplane to the ground safely.
I find it very difficult to believe this moron has been flying for two years and doesn’t know the dangers of lasers being pointed at airplanes. Hopefully, his flight training days are over.
Completely agree with you. My dad's a retired UAL captain, now private instructor and captain in the Civil Air Patrol in North Carolina -- it's a big problem and this guy more than likely did it on purpose.
 
He is lying to the police first and foremost. He certainly meant to point it at the aircraft. It would be impossible for an aspiring pilot to "accidentally" hit the commercial cockpit for a couple of seconds and also aim the thing at the control tower.

So to recap, he broke a law knowingly and he lied about it afterwards. whatever the punishment can be for this crime, I would hope he receives it.

I don't know.... if he knew it was illegal and knew how much trouble he'd get into, why would he casually walk around the airport perimeter and wait around for the po-po to show up after playing with his laser pen?
 
DAYTONA BEACH — An aspiring pilot told officials he was surprised to learn it was a crime to point a laser at an aircraft and said he had just been playing with the green beam of light by pointing it at the sky.

Gerardo Sanchez, 23, was charged by police with pointing a laser at a driver/pilot. His arraignment is set for Jan. 28.

Sanchez of Daytona Beach told police he had been flying for two years and had just started flight training at ATP Flight School at Daytona Beach International Airport.

According to his arrest report, Sanchez was walking near the airport about 10 p.m. Jan. 3 when an American Airlines pilot landing an airliner was hit by a green laser for about one to two seconds. The other pilot saw the laser but the light did not strike him. The green beam also hit two air traffic controllers in the airport’s tower, the report said. Sanchez admitted to having a green laser on him when Officer Shawna Conley confronted him.

“Why you pointing it at planes?” Conley can be heard saying on a police body camera video obtained this week.

“At planes no, no, I pointed at the sky,” Sanchez replied, and he held his hand up as if clutching a laser.

“Right, right, you realize you were pointing in the sky at the direction of planes, right, which is a federal offense, bro?” Conley said.

“What?” Sanchez said incredulously.

“Yeah, cause if you shine a light and cause a plane to crash or cause a pilot to have a problem, that’s a almost a capital crime, bro,” Conley said.

(MORE: FBI's awareness campaign about lasers.)

Federal law calls for five years in prison and up to $11,000 fine for someone aiming a laser at an aircraft. A person can also be charged federally with interfering with a flight crew which is punishable by 20 years in prison.

Sanchez has not been formally charged but if prosecutors believe the laser injured someone, he could face a second-degree felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison. If prosecutors decide no one was injured, Sanchez could face a third-degree felony, punishable by up to five years in prison.

Sanchez's Fort Lauderdale attorney Gustavo Frances said that state statute makes it against the law for someone "knowingly and willfully" to shine a laser at a pilot. The law makes no mention of air traffic controllers, Frances said.

"Police have to establish that he willfully and intentionally aimed it at the pilot," Frances said. "He did not aim it at the pilot."

Frances, who has yet to see the police video, also said that he and Sanchez were not admitting even a basic issue.

"We are not admitting that he used a laser at all," Frances said.

Frances said he was retained by Sanchez's family but declined to discuss what brought Sanchez to Daytona Beach or anything about his client's background.

At his apartment this week, Sanchez said he was no longer a student at ATP but declined to say why or answer any other questions, saying his lawyer had advised him not to talk.

But Sanchez was more talkative when police stopped him on that Sunday night on Clyde Morris Boulevard near the Bellevue Avenue Extension. Sanchez said he had been a pilot for two years in his native Guatemala. Sanchez told police that he had been training at ATP for a month or two.

He said he recently got the laser after ordering it online. Sanchez on the video said he wanted to apologize to airport personnel.

Conley tells him one just arrived referring to airport operations agent Ed Fust who drove to the scene.

“Apparently, there was a misunderstanding,” Conley tells Fust. “He just got it and he was just shining it up in the sky. He didn’t realize where he was at,”

Fust asked Sanchez for the laser and he hands it over. Fust aims it down, switches it on and a bright green circle appears on the sidewalk.

“We just had a commercial (plane) land. It’s not a joke. It’s not a misunderstanding,” Fust said.

Fust later said the laser beam also hit two small planes besides the airliner.

"I was not really aiming for the aircraft, like I was explaining to the officer, the aircraft might have struck the path of the light," Sanchez tells Fust. "I was not, that was not the goal, like to aim at the airplane."

Sanchez asks about what will happen to him.

“I’m not going to jail or anything am I?” Sanchez said.

The officer tells him she is still investigating but Sanchez was later handcuffed and taken to the Volusia County Branch Jail, where he ramained for two days until he was released on $1,500 bail.

At one point several officers stand around Sanchez and someone out of view of the camera questions him, apparently checking if he is aware of news reports of people pointing lasers at planes.

“You watch the news or anything,” the person asks.

“I try not to, really,” Sanchez said.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20160119/NEWS/160119507/0/search

I would do nothing to him on the basis that the officer kept calling him "bro", which just has to be some sort of Constitutional violation.

Edit to add: I see I wasn't the first/only to see this abuse of common decency.
 
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My boss is a pilot and he tells me this is a much larger problem than people know. He said he’s been “lit up” over a dozen times while on approach, and that doesn’t count the times someone pointed a laser at him and missed. It doesn’t take much to cause a catastrophic problem while trying to bring an airplane to the ground safely.
I find it very difficult to believe this moron has been flying for two years and doesn’t know the dangers of lasers being pointed at airplanes. Hopefully, his flight training days are over.

I'm not a pilot nor have any education on the subject, so I will ask you: has there ever been a "catastrophe" stemming from something like this? You say it doesn't take much.
 
23 or not, seems like a dumb kid to me.
Well, he certainly doesn't seem very intelligent. Maybe instead of punishing him we should fast-track his pilot training. Natural Selection will tie up any loose ends for us the first time he tries to fly solo.
 
I'm not a pilot nor have any education on the subject, so I will ask you: has there ever been a "catastrophe" stemming from something like this? You say it doesn't take much.
All it takes is one time. There have been some close calls, however. And, it's not just 'crashes'. There have been pilots who have had their eyes damaged because of lasers.
 
All it takes is one time. There have been some close calls, however. And, it's not just 'crashes'. There have been pilots who have had their eyes damaged because of lasers.

Why don't we hear about such injuries in non-aviation settings? There are laser pointers used in all sort of settings. If they were really this great threat to eye health, why are they allowed at all?

And what about cats? Are there thousands of blind cats out there, victims of people getting them to chase the laser all over the room?
 
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No it's not.
And, yes, there have been numerous articles about eye injuries from laser pointers. Quit acting stupid.

Can a pocket laser damage the eye?

This answer comes from Douglas A. Johnson, a senior health physicist and laser safety officer for Texas A&M University. He is also adjunct lecturer in the nuclear engineering department. Doug is a member of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) for laser safety standards. (The ANSI Z136 series is recognized by OSHA, and is the authoritative laser safety document in the United States.)

Eye damage from a pocket laser is unlikely, but could be possible under certain conditions. Red laser pointers that are "properly labeled" in the 3-5 mW range have not caused eye damage -- no retinal damage has been reported -- but there are very real concerns. One is pointers not manufactured to federal specifications. There are reports that green lasers, improperly imported to the U.S., far exceed safety limits.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-a-pocket-laser-damage/


Somehow, I'm thinking that a pocket laser shot from several hundreds of feet away and through an airplane's windshield is not the "certain conditions" under which eye damage from a pocket laser is likely according to this expert.

So, I don't think I'm not the one "acting stupid." Instead, lawmakers were acting stupid when they enacted a blanket ban in a knee-jerk manner without taking the type of laser pointer used into consideration.
 
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Can a pocket laser damage the eye?

This answer comes from Douglas A. Johnson, a senior health physicist and laser safety officer for Texas A&M University. He is also adjunct lecturer in the nuclear engineering department. Doug is a member of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) for laser safety standards. (The ANSI Z136 series is recognized by OSHA, and is the authoritative laser safety document in the United States.)

Eye damage from a pocket laser is unlikely, but could be possible under certain conditions. Red laser pointers that are "properly labeled" in the 3-5 mW range have not caused eye damage -- no retinal damage has been reported -- but there are very real concerns. One is pointers not manufactured to federal specifications. There are reports that green lasers, improperly imported to the U.S., far exceed safety limits.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-a-pocket-laser-damage/


Somehow, I'm thinking that a pocket laser shot from several hundreds of feet away and through an airplane's windshield is not the "certain conditions" under which eye damage from a pocket laser is likely according to this expert.

So, I don't think I'm not the one "acting stupid." Instead, lawmakers were acting stupid when they enacted a blanket ban in a knee-jerk manner without taking the type of laser pointer used into consideration.
Not all lasers are identical you dumbshit.

Tell you what, stare into a laser, even a pocket laser, for a while and report the outcome. I can give you numerous reports of cornea damage from lasers but think you should see it for yourself (pun intended).
 
Not all lasers are identical you dumbshit.

Tell you what, stare into a laser, even a pocket laser, for a while and report the outcome. I can give you numerous reports of cornea damage from lasers but think you should see it for yourself (pun intended).

Why don't you send an email to Douglas A. Johnson, a senior health physicist and laser safety officer for Texas A&M University and tell him he's a dumbshit?

And why would a pilot "stare into" a laser that shines through the cockpit?

Do they ever land in the afternoon when the sun is shining straight into the cockpit? How do they handle that? Probably by not "staring into" the sun, right?
 
Not all lasers are identical you dumbshit.

And that wonderfully polite reply also failed to address my point. If it's a properly labeled laser meeting federal standards and therefore not likely to damage the eye under the conditions we're talking about, why's it illegal?

If you have one of the Chinese-made super strong lasers, make possession of those things illegal by themselves! No "pointing at the airplane" part necessary.
 
I appreciate the honest response mstp, and Tradition blew the response out of proportion, but I essentially agree with his first one: saying it only takes once is such a weak cop-out. You could say that about, quite literally, every action ever.

Don't pick your nose while driving, you could hit a bump and poke your brain. It only takes once for that to be catastrophic.

I personally think it is likely way overblown, but I'm not in aviation. If pilots say it is dangerous, I'm fine banning it. But let's make the response appropriate. Calling him bro is simply uncalled for.
 
I know, you often wonder, is Trad being intentionally obtuse or is he an idiot. The truth is sadder. He actually manages to convince himself that the moronic things he's arguing are true.
Take this case. A simple pocket laser pointer that wouldn't damage your eye if it were to be shined in it for a moment, as addressed by his pasted story, could in no way be powerful enough to light up the cockpit of a plane flying a mile or so away. Those are bigger, more dangerous lasers that are popular with idiot 20-somethings and can be found all over YouTube burning crap and causing other sorts of mayhem. But acknowledging that they are different defeats his argument, so his brain rejects it out of hand and forges ever on, searching for more and more links to "prove" his point. He's still trying to "prove" that his carton a day smoking habit isn't dangerous.
 
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Can a pocket laser damage the eye?

This answer comes from Douglas A. Johnson, a senior health physicist and laser safety officer for Texas A&M University. He is also adjunct lecturer in the nuclear engineering department. Doug is a member of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) for laser safety standards. (The ANSI Z136 series is recognized by OSHA, and is the authoritative laser safety document in the United States.)

Eye damage from a pocket laser is unlikely, but could be possible under certain conditions. Red laser pointers that are "properly labeled" in the 3-5 mW range have not caused eye damage -- no retinal damage has been reported -- but there are very real concerns. One is pointers not manufactured to federal specifications. There are reports that green lasers, improperly imported to the U.S., far exceed safety limits.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-a-pocket-laser-damage/


Somehow, I'm thinking that a pocket laser shot from several hundreds of feet away and through an airplane's windshield is not the "certain conditions" under which eye damage from a pocket laser is likely according to this expert.

So, I don't think I'm not the one "acting stupid." Instead, lawmakers were acting stupid when they enacted a blanket ban in a knee-jerk manner without taking the type of laser pointer used into consideration.

I've come to the conclusion that you are incapable of reading.
 
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I sure think so. We are living past 70 now.

Scientists studying the brain seem to peg 25 as the end of brain development.

What age do you pick? 18? Why?

Lifespan is irrelevant. If we are living past 150, I wouldn't consider a 40 year old a kid.

I would categorize somebody at the age of 23 as a young adult. You are old enough to be living on your own, a couple years removed from being able to legally drink alcohol and a few years removed from being able to get shipped overseas to fight in wars. Legally, you are seen as an adult at the age of 18. If you kill somebody at 23, should you be tried as if you were 17?
 
And that wonderfully polite reply also failed to address my point. If it's a properly labeled laser meeting federal standards and therefore not likely to damage the eye under the conditions we're talking about, why's it illegal?

If you have one of the Chinese-made super strong lasers, make possession of those things illegal by themselves! No "pointing at the airplane" part necessary.

I really don't see what's so damn wrong with what I posted, but you jackasses go ahead and enjoy being insulting rather than addressing my point.
 
Lifespan is irrelevant. If we are living past 150, I wouldn't consider a 40 year old a kid.

I would categorize somebody at the age of 23 as a young adult. You are old enough to be living on your own, a couple years removed from being able to legally drink alcohol and a few years removed from being able to get shipped overseas to fight in wars. Legally, you are seen as an adult at the age of 18. If you kill somebody at 23, should you be tried as if you were 17?

Well, sure, how many classifications do we need to make?

Lifespan is definitely relevant. If we live to be 400, do we simply say everybody over 60 is still old? Do we then have Old, older, really old, and holy shit?

You are old enough to be living on your own at 14, regardless of what our society has decided. Hell, probably before that. Romeo and Juliet were, what, 13? Kings and queens were that old. King Tut ruled from 10-19.

Legally you are seen as an adult at 18, but science has routinely ignored that arbitrary definition. In fact, yes, those charged at ages over 18 probably should be considered something less than adult in sentencing, and that is the direction courts are heading, including the Iowa Supreme Court. Brain development, which I would think is the #1 factor in determining "adulthood", seems to be happening until around age 25.

But, again, we aren't talking about legal definitions, or moral ones, or anything else. We seem to be talking about the common phrasing of the word "kid", and I think it applies to a 23 year old. You don't. Thing is it is probably quite specific to each person. Some 16 year olds are quite mature, some 30 year olds are not. Some, knowing them personally, would be considered "kids" at 23, and some would be considered quite "adult" at 15.

My thoughts at least.
 
Walking around an airport shining your laser in the sky and then being surprised that it might hit a plane deserves a little jail time.
 
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Walking around an airport shining your laser in the sky and then being surprised that it might hit a plane deserves a little jail time.

Why?

I'll help:

Is it to convince HIM not to do it again?
- If yes, could it be done any other way?
Is it to convince OTHERS not to do it?
- If yes, could it be done another way? Will this influence other people? Will other people find out?

These questions should be the first things you ask yourself in determining an appropriate punishment.
 
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