What's Wrong with Using Human Shields?

[TylerJ23]

Look, Hamas is evil.

What happened on Oct 7 was pure evil.

Israel absolutely should have retaliated.

I just think they have taken it too far...you're more than welcome to disagree

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/child-casualties-west-bank-skyrocket-past-nine-months

Ex-Israeli general hits out at government for 'killing babies as a pastime' in Gaza

Around 14,000 babies face severe malnutrition if a lot more aid trucks don’t reach the Palestinian enclave soon, a U.N. aid group said.

www.nbcnews.com

Over 300 children killed since Israel's new Gaza offensive, Unicef says

Since the war began, more than 15,000 children have reportedly been killed, the agency says.

www.bbc.com

Israeli airstrike kills nine of Gaza doctor’s 10 children, reports say

Dr Alaa al-Najjar was on duty at Nasser hospital in Khan Younis when she received her children’s bodies

www.theguardian.com

West Bank: Spike in Israeli Killings of Palestinian Children

The Israeli military and border police forces are killing Palestinian children with virtually no recourse for accountability.

www.hrw.org

WEST BANK: NEARLY HALF OF ALL CHILD KILLINGS SINCE RECORDS BEGAN HAPPENED IN LAST TWO YEARS

Alarming trend continues into 2025, with at least 10 Palestinian children among 70 people killed by Israeli forces in West Bank

www.savethechildren.org.uk

War is hell.

None of that is genocide.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Look, Hamas is evil.

What happened on Oct 7 was pure evil.

Israel absolutely should have retaliated.

I just think they have taken it too far...you're more than welcome to disagree

War is hell.

FAFO.

 

[TylerJ23]

War is hell.

None of that is genocide.

War is hell.

FAFO.

ok

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Look, Hamas is evil.

What happened on Oct 7 was pure evil.

Israel absolutely should have retaliated.

I just think they have taken it too far...you're more than welcome to disagree

Put yourselves in Israel’s shoes.

When would you stop seeking the return of your citizen hostages?

When would you stop seeking Justice for the dead on Oct 7 who everyone agrees is responsible?

When would you cease disrupting the enemy and allow them to recover, regroup, and attack you again?

Think deeply on these questions and you will understand why Israel hasn’t stopped destroying the Iranian sponsored Hamas terrorist network in Gaza.

 

[Hammerhead02]

All I said on the topic is that I accept my cousin’s anecdotal evidence that Islamic extremists intentionally use human shields.

There is nothing good about war and violence. Nothing.

Your retired cousin? Come on.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

When Iranians and Hamas constantly shout “Death to Israel” should the Israelis take these threats lightly?

Are they only allowed to be defensive or reactively to foreigners stating their intentions to murder them all?

 

[BrianNole777]

Even when the bad guys do actually use human shields, that neither forces us to kill them nor excuses us when we do kill those human shields.

That's a fair point.

How many of the civilians being killed in Gaza are the result of Hamas using human shields and how many are deliberately killed by Israel?

I don't think anyone knows.

Personally, I think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has no solution. Both groups are entrenched and aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I hope whoever is able to immigrate will do so.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Even when the bad guys do actually use human shields, that neither forces us to kill them nor excuses us when we do kill those human shields.

According to the UN it is a war crime for Hamas to use human shields in this manner.

Surely Hamas is being condemned globally for these practices?

Oh what’s that you say? Their proponents dismiss the UN and say this is instead a justifiable means to their ends?

Only in this perverted reality can they keep their moral high ground while committing evil.

No one holds them accountable. The UN should have had 1,000 binding resolutions on the crimes committed by Hamas by now.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

That's a fair point.

How many of the civilians being killed in Gaza are the result of Hamas using human shields and how many are deliberately killed by Israel?

I don't think anyone knows.

Personally, I think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has no solution. Both groups are entrenched and aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I hope whoever is able to immigrate will do so.

Egypt put up a razor wire barbed fence to keep the Gazans out. Why do you think that is?

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

Got news for y’all

Azov used human shields at Mariupol.

The army stored weapons at the Kremenchuk mall. 24 people killed in a strike.

War is hell.

Only Americans believe in surgical strikes as a myth

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Your retired US Delta Force cousin has been fighting in the current Gaza war?

Do tell....

Even "anecdotal" evidence should meet some standards. Such as being true.

I’ll add to the anecdotal evidence.

I go shooting with a buddy who is ex-IDF. His sons are active IDF and he has made five trips back to Israel since the start of the war to assist in aid volunteering.

Hamas uses human-shields in every possible definition. Palestinian women and children are used to provide cover for transportation of soldiers and weapons. They get used so much they grow up not knowing any different and believe they are helping the cause. If you don’t think it breaks hearts when soldiers have to harm a child then you lack total 360 empathy. Conversely, soldiers have to be trained to treat grown women as combatants because if they shift focus off of them, it could kill them. Palestinian Women and children are taught to move munitions and conceal bombs to get close.

The cowards in war are the ones fighting in tunnels whose leaders sit in penthouses in Qatar. Cowards know no bounds of their cowardice.

 

[Sharky1203]

Again, it's our narrative. Hear that unquestioned narrative often enough and you may be forgiven for thinking that it's "universally accepted."

Sort of like MAGAs think the 2020 election being stolen is universally accepted. Because it is . . . in the MAGA universe.

2016 Definitely was. Bernie won the primary.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Impeccable timing. Now is the time for a moderate Gazan people’s party to reject Hamas and their leadership and seek peace terms with Israel.

Interesting X account too.

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib
@afalkhatib
Bio:
Proud American; Gaza native; pro-Palestine, pro-Peace, anti-Hamas & occupation, Realign for Palestine @rfpalestine; Senior Fellow @AtlanticCouncil. Own Views

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

What most casual observers of this conflict either don’t want to admit or conveniently forget is that the Gazan people’s lives were much better off under Israeli rule. It wasn’t until the Israelis left that the area went downhill and fast.

If the Israelis are the “occupiers and bad guys” here, what does that make Hamas who made their lives much worse and destroyed their futures?

I blame Hamas singularly for the last 19 months of chaos and bloodshed. The fighting and the bloodshed is part of their strategy. They want blood. They want death. They say it plainly. Believe them.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Gazans looting Hamas storage warehouses. Good for them.

Gazans should reject Hamas and reject terrorism.

 

[youflog1hawk]

Starving and mutilated children are funny to you?

That’s rich. Seems Hamas was starving hostages and still have some. hamas mutilated babies threw some in ovens.

 

[seminole97]

Personally, I think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has no solution. Both groups are entrenched and aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Phil Sheridan implemented a solution, so saying there is no solution is just historically ignorant.

Well over a century since Indians have slaughtered any settlers.

Winning a war requires a depth of will.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

It wasn't my intent to embarrass. I had hoped you might reexamine your statement.

No one has said using human shields is a novel tactic. What I'm challenging is whether we are using that term correctly.

I could also challenge whether the use of human shields is axiomatically wrong. The French Resistance used human shields. US revolutionaries hid in populated areas. And so on. Sometimes by choice. Sometimes because they had little other choice.

What's relatively new is the argument that if we can say you used human shields then we are justified in killing those human shields. It's our bullets and bombs, but it's not our responsibility.

That's a vile argument. Sure, we're going to kill the human shields. But please don't pretend we're the good guys when we do.

Even when the bad guys do actually use human shields, that neither forces us to kill them nor excuses us when we do kill those human shields.

What kind of person laughs at that?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

That’s rich. Seems Hamas was starving hostages and still have some. hamas mutilated babies threw some in ovens.

Nobody is defending Hamas. But you and plenty of others are defending the slaughter of civilians in Gaza.

 

[Ree4]

They are at war with one another and the Israelis are hunting down Nazis.

Why do you have a problem with a nation state of Jews hunting Nazis?

The Israeli regime are the nazis here, dipshit. They're the ones committing genocide.

 

[Ree4]

That's what we say.

Might even be true. Sometimes there is evidence of them firing from or near such facilities. Sometimes there isn't. Naturally we report it that way, true or false. It's the accepted US/Israeli narrative and is not to be challenged.

Obviously starving, bombing and mutilating tens of thousands of women and children is the best response to this.

 

[Ree4]

I thought that Hamas shot rockets from schools and hospitals knowing civilians would be killed in the return strikes so they could gain sympathy from the international community.

That's the propaganda talking.

 

[Ree4]

Those mother ****ers will never stop until Israel is destroyed.

LOL that is ****ing exactly what Israel is doing right now, how is that not obvious to you?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

They are at war with one another and the Israelis are hunting down Nazis.

Why do you have a problem with a nation state of Jews hunting Nazis?

If they were hunting the Nazis running our government, I'd be a lot happier about it.

But not if they were murdering tens of thousands of innocent civilians.

 

[Ree4]

That’s rich. Seems Hamas was starving hostages and still have some. hamas mutilated babies threw some in ovens.

There's been a lot of fabricated shit coming out of Israel, especially immediately after 10/7

 

[seminole97]

Nobody is defending Hamas.

The Democratic Socialists of America have defended them.

 

[seminole97]

If they were hunting the Nazis running our government, I'd be a lot happier about it.

But not if they were murdering tens of thousands of innocent civilians.

The U.S. deliberately killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians while hunting Nazis.

When should they have stopped and offered the Nazis a ceasefire instead to save civilians?

 

[Rifler]

Finish the job of eradicating Hamas...

 

[ISUBryce]

Leadership of Hamas has said in the past they want a high civilian death toll. Do with that what you will.

Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar Depicts Palestinian Casualties As ‘Necessary Sacrifices’

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, who masterminded Hamas’s October 7 atrocities, portrayed the deaths of Palestinian civilians as a welcome sacrifice in his personal correspondence, The...

www.fdd.org

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The U.S. deliberately killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians while hunting Nazis.

When should they have stopped and offered the Nazis a ceasefire instead to save civilians?

Interesting question. I don't know. Perhaps before Dresden?

What's your answer?

Please don't tell me you were trying to be ironic.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Leadership of Hamas has said in the past they want a high civilian death toll. Do with that what you will.

Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar Depicts Palestinian Casualties As ‘Necessary Sacrifices’

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, who masterminded Hamas’s October 7 atrocities, portrayed the deaths of Palestinian civilians as a welcome sacrifice in his personal correspondence, The...

www.fdd.org

Gandhi was on that page, too - inviting violence to highlight evil.

What do you do to turn the public against an evil they refuse to see? You have to make them see it.

The rules for the oppressed are not the same as for the oppressors. Nor should they be.

 

[Ree4]

Leadership of Hamas has said in the past they want a high civilian death toll. Do with that what you will.

Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar Depicts Palestinian Casualties As ‘Necessary Sacrifices’

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, who masterminded Hamas’s October 7 atrocities, portrayed the deaths of Palestinian civilians as a welcome sacrifice in his personal correspondence, The...

www.fdd.org

Exactly what I would expect a Pro-Israel lobby like FDD to say. Would be curious if an actual legitimate source corroborated that.

The Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) is a neoconservative[1][2][3] 501(c)(3) non-profit[4] think tank based in Washington, D.C., United States.[5][6] It has also been described as a pro-Israel, anti-Iran lobby group due to its focus on Iran and opposition to the 2015 nuclear deal with Iran.[7][8][9]

 

[alaskanseminole]

What's Wrong with Using Human Shields?

If done right, nothing.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If done right, nothing.

Let nothing go to waste.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

“Children are supposed to be protected. In Gaza, these protections are simply gone. Every day, the distinction between combatant and civilian is erased. Most of my patients were preteen children, their bodies shattered by explosives and torn by flying metal. … The medical system has not failed. It has been systematically dismantled through a sustained military campaign that has willfully violated international humanitarian law. Civilians are now dying not just from the constant airstrikes, but from acute malnutrition, sepsis, exposure and despair.”

 

[seminole97]

Interesting question. I don't know. Perhaps before Dresden?

That leaves pre-war Nazi Germany almost entirely intact.
January '45 saw East Prussia cut off, but not taken.

What's your answer?

They declared war on us and attacked us.
I support ending that regime, not leaving it in place with a ceasefire.