Which is worse?
- Thread starter BonzoFury
- Start date
Have to go with KF's offense. While they "improved" this year, but that whole thing has been a mess the last few years, and nationally Iowa football is more relevant than Iowa BB.
I'd offer that Kirk has accomplished more overall with his philosophy than Fran has with his.
Fran has won a Big Ten Championship game while Kirk has not.
equally shitty
what’s worse neither has done jack shit to improve it either
we have two of the most mediocre coaches than continue to run back the same lousy schemes
what’s worse neither has done jack shit to improve it either
we have two of the most mediocre coaches than continue to run back the same lousy schemes
That’s a tough one. Kirk purposely wants his offense to suck, but Fran’s defense is terrible without him even trying. Since Kirk manages to put players on his offense in the NFL and every once in a while has a stud like KJ, I guess I’d say Fran’s defense is worse because he never has that equivalent.
They’ve both kept Iowa from achieving anything substantial.
Fran’s offense and conference and national awards for players has been great but hasn’t translated into NCAA or recruiting success
Phil’s defense has kept Kirk comfy and gotten Iowa to a couple of conference championships only to be embarrassed on national stage over and over again
Fran’s offense and conference and national awards for players has been great but hasn’t translated into NCAA or recruiting success
Phil’s defense has kept Kirk comfy and gotten Iowa to a couple of conference championships only to be embarrassed on national stage over and over again
It's hard to measure when you play both ways in basketball but two names that immediately come to mind as standouts are Uthoff and Olaseni. Olaseni become a block machine and would have probably had a huge 5th year if he had redshirted early on. Uthoff had a shit ton of blocks with his height and length and seemingly got most of his out on the perimeter by closing out on 3 point attempts. As we all know, with last night notwithstanding, that part of the court has been defense optional for most of the Fran era.
There have actually been some pretty individual defensive players for basketball from time to time, but overall it's been abysmal. I however have to vote Ferentz because of his dipshit kid. When you have a specific offense and defense coaches and parts of the team and are able to actually measure each units performance, and you're the worst at the nation at it, but continuing to keep that coach and scheme and saying you're doing just fine for as long as it went on for makes it far worse.
I'd have had this same opinion a while back, but Kirk hasn't really accomplished more than Fran over the past 10 years. They both have made a habit of beating poor teams outside of and within the conference. The biggest difference between the 2 programs has probably been the league they've operated within. Unlike Fran, Kirk has had the benefit of playing in a split conference where he didn't compete directly with the top 3 teams. They only had to be better than 6 others that often weren't that great.
I honestly can't decide, although I haven't watched Iowa basketball since the ass kicking by Oregon in the tourney in 2021.
I expected that from the anti-Ferentz. Not sure what Kirk did to you but I think you are jealous of his success. You have never had a positive comment about him.
What exactly did he say that you disagree with?
Define "success" and we can continue this. I'm guessing our definitions will be different.
Also, I am not "anti-Ferentz", and I have nothing to be jealous of.
I am anti-Ferentz and became that way with the hiring, promoting, and stubbornly keeping Boy Wonder. He put padding the pocketbook of his son over the success of the team of which he is employed by to produce as good of a product as he can produce. He took a major dump on the team.
Fran has won a title more recently. Kirk hasn’t won anything of importance in 15 years.
That was the final kick in the nuts from that program for me.
And you know KF to have valued BF's pocketbook over the team how?
Plenty of more sensible ways to look at BF's time at Iowa
First of all, defense is much more important in basketball than offense is in football.
One coach is negligent in a fundamental of the game. There's your answer
One coach is negligent in a fundamental of the game. There's your answer
Fran’s defense, and it’s not even close. Why? Because effort, attitude, and toughness are 100000000% within the basketball team’s and Fran’s control. Yes, there’s more to it than that, but hopefully my point is pretty clear.
They both have their flaws but KF is so much more to the program and university than Fran. KF seems to genuinely care and is devoted to his players/school despite being a little old in his ways. Man is an icon amongst the college football coaching community, even in today’s age of what can you do for me now.
KF is still selling out stadiums. Might be more of a football school vs basketball school thing but WBB is selling like crazy. Not sure we can get better results overall for the MBB program but firing Fran could get some excitement and butts back in seats. So many people are tired of the act.
Give me KF over Fran every time.
KF is still selling out stadiums. Might be more of a football school vs basketball school thing but WBB is selling like crazy. Not sure we can get better results overall for the MBB program but firing Fran could get some excitement and butts back in seats. So many people are tired of the act.
Give me KF over Fran every time.
This. The fact that football under Kirk still matters to most, (even to those who bash him), says it all. Even this year there was still conversation of a playoff run. How many years does anyone think that Fran is leading this team anywhere? And once again its WAY easier to move the needle on a basketball roster by signing just a couple of truly impactful players. As for using BF as an eliminator for Kirk, do you really care to go down that road in regards to Fran and his run of 6 or 7 years of Mac boys basketball under pops?
I think this is all a reflection of football being way more popular than basketball in general. Most of the goodwill that Kirk built his first 15 years or so was thrown away with with the embarrassment that was wrought by the Brian debacle. A huge segment of the fanbase is ready to move on from both coaches, but Kinnick will have 65-70 thousand in the seats regardless of who is coaching and the success of the team. Carver won't be full until there is some significant success like the women saw.
True enough, BUT that lack of success goes right back to Fran. I've said many times, it seems much easier to grab that conference crown in basketball then football. There have been some good teams in the B1G but no dominate team for an ongoing time. Some teams make a run from time to time, but no one has dominated the league as OSU/Michigan have in football for most of the last 50 years+. Week in and week out you just can't overcome their depth on that football roster over the course of an entire season. Not if your Iowa, Minn. , Wisconsin, Illinois, Purdue, Nebraska, etc.. Thats simple not the same hurdle in basketball, and as I said it only takes landing a couple of difference makers, not at all the same overwhelming challenge as the football rosters have. Even when Fran has landed those "couple of guys" he was unable to take the next step.
The weird thing about Fran is he has had success. In fact IMO if you just blindly look at W-L during his tenure you probably couldn’t ask for more from Iowa MBB under any coach. It’s his lack of winning anything meaningful and the lack of (what appears to) giving a shit. He can’t win the big game and has tantrums that makes toddlers blush. I appreciate what he did but the MBB is stagnate right now, this isn’t necessarily from a W/L perspective.
You're wrong on this. Fran was competing against the entire conference every year and had won 1 tournament championship. Kirk was only competing against 6 mediocre to bad programs for 13 years to make the championship game. A very good program could have won the West most or at least the majority of years and then only had to win one game at the end to win a championship. That's a much easier road than facing all of the best programs in the conference multiple games in any given year, and yet Iowa only won the West 3 times, getting completely blown out in the last 2 championships.
I think your oversimplifying both schedules. Iowa football has not ALWAYS had the same "easy schedule" each year, and Fran has not always had to play each of the best teams home and away every year. I'd also totally disagree about winning the B1G in football as easier just by winning that ONE game. That one game is ALWAYS against an elite top 1-5 level football team in all of NCAA football, and NO one has beaten OSU or Michigan in that scenario, not just Iowa. Iowa came within a hair the one time they did not have to face an elite team in 2015 against MSU. The honest fact is we or 98% of the NCAA football teams are probably not wining those games. Thats simply not the case in basketball. There simply is not that level of disparity between teams based on their overall talent level. There is NO OSU football level team in the B1G in basketball. There just isn't.
A Big 10 Tourney Championship is very good but it is maybe a 3 game run. Fran is hardly ever close to the top in regular season Big 10 standings which to me shows how good a team is.
In the last 10 years, Kirk has had a 12-0 regular season team which is tough and several or two 10 win teams. The 2015 team barely lost that champsionship game against MSU and .....
Kirk's teams usually and almost always finish strong in the season, mid-Oct to Black Friday. Fran's teams are noted for late season swoons, big time crashes.
So I dont want to use the word "worse" but as a team Fran's are less accomplished than KIrk's.
This is what makes me always laugh when people say “but look how easy the schedule is.” Ok well look at other teams with an easy schedule and see how they fair. Idc who you play, not many teams are winning 10+ often. There is a reason why Iowa is among the OSUs and Bamas in win pct over the last decade. Would it be nice to have a little more to show for it, sure. Odds are the trophy case is the same regardless though.
This right here is correct.
I have more hope for football right now due to Lester not being incompetent.
Was Lester in on the boneheaded calls in the second half against Mizz?
So football doubled their scoring this season by accident?
News flash.....Iowa had a new OC this season that ran new schemes.
Lmoa, where do you guys even come up with this crap?
