Who Do You Blame for ISIS?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The argument I keep hearing is that ISIS arose because Obama pulled out of Iraq - countered by the argument that Bush arranged the agreement to pull out of Iraq. With a few variations and embellishments on that basic dispute.

I object to the idea that pulling out of Iraq created ISIS.

Going into Iraq, disbanding the Iraqi army, and then bribing many of the Sunni opposition forces with money and weapons to stay on the sidelines during the surge - that's what created ISIS.

The main difference between what would have happened if we had kept 10K or 20K of US troops there is that we'd have boots on the ground against ISIS - and a lot of them would probably be dead.

ISIS didn't slowly evolve from tidal ponds and swamp ooze. Those guys were already mostly there, waiting for the right time.

 

[joelbc1]

Moslem jihadists....

 

[Bob Pelini_]

Obama

 

[Lone Clone]

Muslim extremists, of course.

In terms of Americans, obviously Obama and Clinton have a lot to answer for, by undercutting the Bush plans and pulling out of Iraq. ISIS wouldn't be a factor if the president and secstate had left a sufficient residual force, as planned.

 

[Bob Pelini_]

Obama

 

[naturalmwa]

The Bush family.

 

[Funky Bunch]

Bruce Jenner

 

[Bob Pelini_]

Obama

 

[joelbc1]

Muslim extremists, of course.

In terms of Americans, obviously Obama and Clinton have a lot to answer for, by undercutting the Bush plans and pulling out of Iraq. ISIS wouldn't be a factor if the president and secstate had left a sufficient residual force, as planned.

You mean the residual force that the Iraqii PM told Obama to remove? That one?

 

[naturalmwa]

You mean the residual force that the Iraqii PM told Obama to remove? That one?

That would be the one.

 

[Bob Pelini_]

You mean the residual force that the Iraqii PM told Obama to remove? That one?

It was Obamas plan all along to turn tail and run fro Iraq and let the ISIL take over.

 

[TexMichFan]

It is a no sure winner argument as to the cause.

What I believe is not in doubt is that the Obama team seriously underestimated the strength and growth of ISIS. This error will be a major issue for the President that comes next.

 

[gusto79]

I don't know enough about the details of how ISIS came to be, but I'd guess neither Bush or Obama is blameless in the whole thing.

 

[Aegon_Targaryen]

Muslim extremists, of course.

In terms of Americans, obviously Obama and Clinton have a lot to answer for, by undercutting the Bush plans and pulling out of Iraq. ISIS wouldn't be a factor if the president and secstate had left a sufficient residual force, as planned.

Oh darn, our troops don't have to go and 'secure' a FOREIGN land and risk their lives in doing so. Such a tragedy.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Marc Richards is responsible for ISIS

 

[sijoint]

Obama

No, they did their job.......but this guy let it happen....on purpose

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

Oh darn, our troops don't have to go and 'secure' a FOREIGN land and risk their lives in doing so. Such a tragedy.

Obviously Lone is willing to accept the blame for another 1000 American lives lost by Occupying Iraq indefinitely.

 

[Run&Blade]

The religious nuts. Probably should have just kept all the dictators in charge.

People are too stupid to be free.

 

[SoMplsHawkI]

Reagan.

 

[Aegon_Targaryen]

Obviously Lone is willing to accept the blame for another 1000 American lives lost by Occupying Iraq indefinitely.

I'd hope so, McCain said he'd keep the troops there for 100 years if needed. As in, I'd make sure our troops die over there for 100 years if needed.

 

[lucas80]

Muslim extremists, of course.

In terms of Americans, obviously Obama and Clinton have a lot to answer for, by undercutting the Bush plans and pulling out of Iraq. ISIS wouldn't be a factor if the president and secstate had left a sufficient residual force, as planned.

The only correct answer is George Bush. He created it by invading Iraq. You break it, you buy it. He and the rest of the neocons swaggered into Iraq with no plan to govern. The US military did a great job in destroying the Iraqi military and chasing down Saddam Hussein, but, there was no plan for what came after. Any suggestion that the seeds for all the troubles in Iraq stem from something other than the original action of invading Iraq are fantasmical.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

It is a no sure winner argument as to the cause.

What I believe is not in doubt is that the Obama team seriously underestimated the strength and growth of ISIS. This error will be a major issue for the President that comes next.

I think that's true. That would be worth looking into if we could be serious about it and not make it just another gotcha in the blame game.

When Obama fatefully called them a JV team, that was undoubtedly what the intelligence folks were telling him. How did they get it so wrong? Were we, for example, relying on the Saudis or the Israelis for our on-the-ground reporting? We weren't in direct contact with the rebels in Syria, as I understand it, but Saudi Arabia was funneling our support to them. And the Saudis were directly supporting al Nusra and rebels who later became identified as ISIS.

 

[naturalmwa]

The only correct answer is George Bush. He created it by invading Iraq. You break it, you buy it. He and the rest of the neocons swaggered into Iraq with no plan to govern. The US military did a great job in destroying the Iraqi military and chasing down Saddam Hussein, but, there was no plan for what came after. Any suggestion that the seeds for all the troubles in Iraq stem from something other than the original action of invading Iraq are fantasmical.

Props for use of the word fantastical.

 

[naturalmwa]

I think that's true. That would be worth looking into if we could be serious about it and not make it just another gotcha in the blame game.

When Obama fatefully called them a JV team, that was undoubtedly what the intelligence folks were telling him. How did they get it so wrong? Were we, for example, relying on the Saudis or the Israelis for our on-the-ground reporting? We weren't in direct contact with the rebels in Syria, as I understand it, but Saudi Arabia was funneling our support to them. And the Saudis were directly supporting al Nusra and rebels who later became identified as ISIS.

We seem to have bad Intel a lot.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We seem to have bad Intel a lot.

And dubious friends.

 

[MitchL]

Yea, the GOP second-guessers made sure they had all the bases covered. Just like the controversy we have now with the Iran deal and resuming relations with Cuba. You scream about how bad the agreement is and A... everything works out no one remembers what the GOP said or B... something goes wrong and you can proclaim... "See, we told you this would happen". Just like the Republican's criticism of ACA... you remember that, right... the one where they had zero alternative plan, but screamed how unfair and evil it is/was.

When you have a political party controlled by a very vocal minority... you get this result. It's why the GOP has lost the last two presidential elections and why they likely lose the next one too.

Hey... Ruppert and Roger love it!

 

[Bob Pelini_]

Obama, he bailed and everything was going great until Berries bailed.

 

[MitchL]

Obama, he bailed and everything was going great until Berries bailed.

Maybe what he did can be classified as "bailing". But the one thing he does recognize is that the general American public is SICK AND TIRED of war. Until our allies in the region can be trusted, if that's even possible, you simply can't win against the religious zealots in that area of the world.

 

[Bob Pelini_]

Maybe what he did can be classified as "bailing". But the one thing he does recognize is that the general American public is SICK AND TIRED of war. Until our allies in the region can be trusted, if that's even possible, you simply can't win against the religious zealots in that area of the world.

They are now here and we are not winning against them in our own country, we all knew it was going to happen and now it has. Would the Boston bombing, and the more recent shootings of unarmed soldiers have happened had Berries not bailed in Iraq?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Maybe what he did can be classified as "bailing". But the one thing he does recognize is that the general American public is SICK AND TIRED of war. Until our allies in the region can be trusted, if that's even possible, you simply can't win against the religious zealots in that area of the world.

The problem is that if you want to get out and stay out of a bad situation that you should never have gotten into in the first place, you probably shouldn't start meddling in new places like Syria.

Sure, smacking Syria looks like a good idea. It eliminates Iran's best friend and Russia's only friend in the region. Saudi Arabia and Israel are certainly happy with the idea. One or both may even have been the first to recommend it. But Obama is the one who made the mistake of starting the Syrian conflict.

I wonder if we'd still be facing ISIS if we hadn't created the power vacuum in Syria.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

Yea, the GOP second-guessers made sure they had all the bases covered

The GOP are the second guessers with respect to Iraq?

Now that's rich!

 

[Chuck C]

The USA is to blame. We armed and trained the rebels that overthrew Quadaffi and we armed and trained the rebels in Syria. These both morphed into what is now ISIS. It's the same game the U.S. has been playing for years. We set them up then we knock them down. Gotta keep the war machine chugging along.

 

[unIowa]

Who do you blame in America for this: obvious answer is Obama.

He knew the job when he ran for POTUS so regardless of who started that war He owned that situation and all the decisions that came immediately after taking office.

I know liberals don't want to blame Obama but he owns this one.

 

[DanL53]

The only correct answer is George Bush. He created it by invading Iraq. You break it, you buy it. He and the rest of the neocons swaggered into Iraq with no plan to govern. The US military did a great job in destroying the Iraqi military and chasing down Saddam Hussein, but, there was no plan for what came after. Any suggestion that the seeds for all the troubles in Iraq stem from something other than the original action of invading Iraq are fantasmical.

This one should go in history books.^^^^^

Removing the Ba'ath party in favor of trying to set up a three way government was nuts.

 

[joelbc1]

Who do you blame in America for this: obvious answer is Obama.

He knew the job when he ran for POTUS so regardless of who started that war He owned that situation and all the decisions that came immediately after taking office.

I know liberals don't want to blame Obama but he owns this one.

and the Iraqii people have no blame for this mess? Liberal, schmiberal........The PM told Obama if was was to leave, leave and take all the soldiers with you. Guys....it is their country. We never ever should have been there in the first place. Under any circumstances. You'd have thought Viet Nam might have taught us something.

 

[joelbc1]

The GOP are the second guessers with respect to Iraq?

Now that's rich!

Yes Guido, methinks they are. Now that the Dems are "in charge"......

 

[unIowa]

and the Iraqii people have no blame for this mess? Liberal, schmiberal........The PM told Obama if was was to leave, leave and take all the soldiers with you. Guys....it is their country. We never ever should have been there in the first place. Under any circumstances. You'd have thought Viet Nam might have taught us something.

You should reread the first part of my post.

 

[sijoint]

Moslem jihadists....

Obama......."still have no strategy to defeat ISIS"

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-isis-fight-complete-strategy/story?id=31606260

 

[preshlock]

Only good point about Saddam Hussein is he kept the Islamic psychos under control. No doubt the Republican Guard would be just as ruthless in suppressing ISIS, as ISIS are in expanding their area of control.

 

[Aegon_Targaryen]

Obama, he bailed and everything was going great until Berries bailed.

Our men and woman aren't getting killed anymore either. The Arabs are just killing themselves off now,..

Why would you have a problem with that?