Who do you consider the Hit King in baseball?

[TheCainer]

ohhh good choice. What do the experts think his hit total would have been without war years? (Real War years, not wins above replacement)

I looked this up earlier tonight and found that Williams never had a 200-hit season, mainly because he took a ton of walks. His career hit total was 2654 and he missed about 5 seasons. If he had averaged 200 hits for those 5 years, he still would have been way short of the career hits leader. Where he might have had the most effect would have been in HRs and RBIs. Even missing 5 seasons, he still had 521 HRs and 1839 RBIs. I think he would easily have the career RBI record and it is very likely he would have hit more HRs than Ruth. I think Aaron would have still beat him there, though. For the record, I don't even consider Barry Bonds.

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=willite01

 

[TheCainer]

This...

...or this.

I think one way to compare them is to compare years at the same ages in their careers. Ichiro didn't play MLB until age 28, and by that time Rose already had played 6 seasons and had about 1100 hits. Look at their careers starting at age 28, is my suggestion. It's not a perfect comparison, but it would tell how each of them did at the same time of their careers.

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=suzukic01 Ichiro Suzuki

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=rosepe01 Pete Rose

 

[mstp1992]

Of the two choices, I’d definitely go with Pete Rose. He simply has the most recorded hits in MLB history.

If this were an open question I wouldn’t call him the greatest hitter, though. I’d reserve that spot for a dozen or so others like (but not limited to) Ted Williams, Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Honus Wagner, Glenn Beckert....

 

[joelbc1]

Teddy Baseball is and was the greatest hitter ever in the game of baseball. Only a fool would argue otherwise. End of discussion.
Look at his accomplishments in the books and then remember he lost several of his “most productive” years to military service...
In 1939, his rookie season, Williams drove in 145 runs and was 9 years younger than average ball player...when Williams was 38 years old, he hit .388 ( 5 hits more and he’d have batted .400!), and that season he was 9 years older than the average ball player in the League.
Baseball experts here need to get some perspective on this one. This is a pretty easy one really. No one could hit the baseball like #9. He had his flaws as a ball player for sure...but no one hit the ball like Ted. No one.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Pete Rose, the most overrated baseball player ever. And even I believe he should be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[runkpanole]

Along the lines of Ted Williams, I have no doubt in my mind had Griffey Jr. stayed healthy throughout his career, he would have surpassed Aaron and done so cleanly.

*Yes, I know war and injuries are very different. Just saying Griffey Jr was the best long ball hitter ever in my opinion.

 

[83Hawk]

No, he shouldn't. No, he hasn't.

His contempt-to-contrition ratio is off the charts.

Which have absolutely zero relationship to his on-field accomplishments as a player.

 

[cfbfan23]

When you consider how many beers he downed in his career, to go along with the prodigious hit #'s, Wade Boggs deserves some consideration.

 

[TJ8869]

He bet on them to win, he didn’t throw any games. How about the Astros, they actually influenced their games and none of those players were thrown out of baseball and given a lifetime ban.

We don't know that he never bet against his own team. But even if he didn't, he still could negatively affect the outcome of games he doesn't bet on with personnel decisions. Maybe he uses his closer too many days in a row and ordinarily would have given him the night off, but he has money on tonight's game so he uses him anyway and now that guy isn't available for the next 3 or 4 games. Additionally, even if he only bet on the Reds to win, by not betting on them at all on certain nights even though he bet on other games, he was signaling to his bookies that he didn't expect to win that particular night.

What we do know is that Pete has lied and denied repeatedly over the years and when he has finally owned up to the truth about specific aspects of the Dowd Report it was usually in the form of a book tour or publicity stunt. For years he denied betting on baseball at all. Then for years he admitted to betting on baseball but claimed he never bet on his own team. Then after 15 years he finally wrote a book in which he admitted that he bet on his own team. Why should we believe he never bet against them?

To make matters worse, every year he would set up his little autograph signing table just down the street from the Hall of Fame induction ceremony to profit off his notoriety and thumb his nose at the commissioner like a petulant child. Zero contrition, limitless contempt. Pete is his own worst enemy.

 

[TJ8869]

Which have absolutely zero relationship to his on-field accomplishments as a player.

But has everything to do with whether MLB should honor him by inducting him into the Hall of Fame.

 

[83Hawk]

But has everything to do with whether MLB should honor him by inducting him into the Hall of Fame.

Silly me.....I thought the Hall of Fame was for accomplishments in baseball. I didn’t know it was for character.

 

[mnole03]

Silly me.....I thought the Hall of Fame was for accomplishments in baseball. I didn’t know it was for character.

Let me know when Barry Bonds makes it in.

 

[83Hawk]

Let me know when Barry Bonds makes it in.

The topic is Pete Rose.

 

[TJ8869]

The topic is Pete Rose.

I thought the topic was whether or not someone who violates the integrity of the game belongs in the Hall of Fame.

 

[Cougar63]

bonds lied about taking steroids, pete rose openly admitted he slept with people who couldn't consent. even before steroids, bonds was a hall of famer.

1986-1998

• 411 home runs
• 403 doubles
• 63 triples
• 445 stolen bases
• 1,364 runs scored
• 1,216 RBI
• 3,679 total bases
• .966 OPS (164 OPS+) (10th best all time)

 

[SSG T]

I will just say this, if Rose should be in then there is no question that the likes of Bonds, Clemens, Joe Jackson should be in. If we're keeping cheaters out, then lets get rid of everyone in the Hall who has cheated. Probably 10-20% of the people currently in the HoF would be out, including some of the greatest of all time.

I really don't care at this point

 

[chosen.one]

Silly me.....I thought the Hall of Fame was for accomplishments in baseball. I didn’t know it was for character.

He bet on games that he coached. Whether you think its wrong or not it is 100% wrong according to MLB. It was in his contract that he wasn't allowed and still did. I'm fine he isn't in the HOF.

 

[SSG T]

Ty Cobb. In that era they played semi-pro games, and unofficial exhibition games on Sundays to get around blue laws. He had hundreds of hits that were never accounted for.

So hits against non-MLB teams should count?

How about we count all of the HR that Ruth hit while barnstorming in the off-season, or the HRs that Gibson hit between barnstorming and Negro League?

 

[TJ8869]

Here's something else to consider when rationalizing Pete's gambling by saying he never bet against the Reds. Like most compulsive gamblers, Pete lost a lot. That means he owed people a lot of money and a lot of favors, which calls into question what methods he may have used to repay them. By associating with bookies on a daily basis, Rose put himself in a position that compromised his own integrity.

Rule 21(d) is quite clear and is posted in every clubhouse across the league. Betting on any baseball game gets you a one-year ban. Betting on your own team, even to win, gets you a lifetime ban.

 

[UNIowaHawk]

bonds lied about taking steroids, pete rose openly admitted he slept with people who couldn't consent. even before steroids, bonds was a hall of famer.

1986-1998

• 411 home runs
• 403 doubles
• 63 triples
• 445 stolen bases
• 1,364 runs scored
• 1,216 RBI
• 3,679 total bases
• .966 OPS (164 OPS+) (10th best all time)

And to make matters worse, the HOF already has cheaters in it-- known cheaters prior to going into the HOF.

 

[83Hawk]

He bet on games that he coached. Whether you think its wrong or not it is 100% wrong according to MLB. It was in his contract that he wasn't allowed and still did. I'm fine he isn't in the HOF.

I don’t care if he is in the HOF or not.

 

[WorldSeriesChamps2015]

George Brett

 

[gojojo]

Rose deserves the title since he had more hits in MLB but I'd take Ichiro over him if I needed a hit, Gwynn as well.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Teddy Baseball is and was the greatest hitter ever in the game of baseball. Only a fool would argue otherwise. End of discussion.
Look at his accomplishments in the books and then remember he lost several of his “most productive” years to military service...
In 1939, his rookie season, Williams drove in 145 runs and was 9 years younger than average ball player...when Williams was 38 years old, he hit .388 ( 5 hits more and he’d have batted .400!), and that season he was 9 years older than the average ball player in the League.
Baseball experts here need to get some perspective on this one. This is a pretty easy one really. No one could hit the baseball like #9. He had his flaws as a ball player for sure...but no one hit the ball like Ted. No one.

Wrong. Stan Musial was the best hitter ever. He also missed the entire '45 season in the Navy, which was in between seasons when he averaged 215 hits per season. Teddy never even lead the league in hits or had 200 hits. Musial lead the league in hits 6 times, doubles 5 times, triples 4 times. Williams never lead the league in hits, doubles twice, never in triples, but 4 x in HRs.
What Teddy did best was walk. Did he have a better eye than Musial? No. Musial had almost 3,000 more ABs than Teddy but struck out even less. If you add in 215 hits form Musial's missed season and 1,000 for Teddy's missed 5 seasons ( though Teddy never had a 200 hit season ) Musial still out hits him by 250 hits or so. Don't forget the right field line was 302 feet for the left handed pull hitting Williams...

 

[TJ8869]

Wrong. Stan Musial was the best hitter ever. He also missed the entire '45 season in the Navy, which was in between seasons when he averaged 215 hits per season. Teddy never even lead the league in hits or had 200 hits. Musial lead the league in hits 6 times, doubles 5 times, triples 4 times. Williams never lead the league in hits, doubles twice, never in triples, but 4 x in HRs.
What Teddy did best was walk. Did he have a better eye than Musial? No. Musial had almost 3,000 more ABs than Teddy but struck out even less. If you add in 215 hits form Musial's missed season and 1,000 for Teddy's missed 5 seasons ( though Teddy never had a 200 hit season ) Musial still out hits him by 250 hits or so. Don't forget the right field line was 302 feet for the left handed pull hitting Williams...

This is the HROT I know and love. Guys talking trash about players whose careers ended before most of us were even born, based mostly on what jersey they wore.

 

[mnole03]

Wrong. Stan Musial was the best hitter ever. He also missed the entire '45 season in the Navy, which was in between seasons when he averaged 215 hits per season. Teddy never even lead the league in hits or had 200 hits. Musial lead the league in hits 6 times, doubles 5 times, triples 4 times. Williams never lead the league in hits, doubles twice, never in triples, but 4 x in HRs.
What Teddy did best was walk. Did he have a better eye than Musial? No. Musial had almost 3,000 more ABs than Teddy but struck out even less. If you add in 215 hits form Musial's missed season and 1,000 for Teddy's missed 5 seasons ( though Teddy never had a 200 hit season ) Musial still out hits him by 250 hits or so. Don't forget the right field line was 302 feet for the left handed pull hitting Williams...

Oh please, he had two seasons of truly garbage pitching in ‘43-44 while the men were off at war. That’s when he became an All-Star. People want to make fun of Japanese baseball, yet allow for those “MLB” seasons.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

He autographed a baseball I received for hitting a HR in a little league tournament, so suck it Sally...

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Oh please, he has two seasons of truly garbage pitching in ‘43-44 while the men were off at war.

He was in the service in '45 dumbazz...

 

[mnole03]

He was in the service in '45 dumbazz...

CSB

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

 

[SoFla-Hawkeye]

Rod Carew should be in the discussion.

As for Rose... it has been said he never bet on his team to lose. Which may be true. Can it be said he never threw a game he didn’t bet on though? Debt is a bitch. He could have sat a guy for “rest” or left a pitcher in too long as a means to repay a debt all while never betting on that game himself. I don’t think he has earned the benefit of the doubt. I’m also not convinced we know everything MLB knows.

 

[mnole03]

Never in a combat theater. He delayed his deployment to steal an extra World Series. He became an All-Star when the big boys were off fighting tyranny.

 

[mnole03]

Rod Carew should be in the discussion.

As for Rose... it has been said he never bet on his team to lose. Which may be true. Can it be said he never threw a game he didn’t bet on though? Debt is a bitch. He could have sat a guy for “rest” or left a pitcher in too long as a means to repay a debt all while never betting on that game himself. I don’t think he has earned the benefit of the doubt. I’m also not convinced we know everything MLB knows.

If you’re managing, you control your rotation. He may not have bet the Reds to lose, but he certainly could have exploited his position to win certain games at the expense of others.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Never in a combat theater. He delayed his deployment to steal an extra World Series. He became an All-Star when the big boys were off fighting tyranny.

He was an All Star 24 times dumbazz... be better...

 

[mnole03]

He was an All Star 24 times dumbazz... be better...

You remove those two years of garbage pitching, and he’s below A-Rod, somewhere near Rickey Henderson in Offensive WAR.

 

[joelbc1]

Wrong. Stan Musial was the best hitter ever. He also missed the entire '45 season in the Navy, which was in between seasons when he averaged 215 hits per season. Teddy never even lead the league in hits or had 200 hits. Musial lead the league in hits 6 times, doubles 5 times, triples 4 times. Williams never lead the league in hits, doubles twice, never in triples, but 4 x in HRs.
What Teddy did best was walk. Did he have a better eye than Musial? No. Musial had almost 3,000 more ABs than Teddy but struck out even less. If you add in 215 hits form Musial's missed season and 1,000 for Teddy's missed 5 seasons ( though Teddy never had a 200 hit season ) Musial still out hits him by 250 hits or so. Don't forget the right field line was 302 feet for the left handed pull hitting Williams...

Wrong. Stan Musial was the best hitter ever. He also missed the entire '45 season in the Navy, which was in between seasons when he averaged 215 hits per season. Teddy never even lead the league in hits or had 200 hits. Musial lead the league in hits 6 times, doubles 5 times, triples 4 times. Williams never lead the league in hits, doubles twice, never in triples, but 4 x in HRs.
What Teddy did best was walk. Did he have a better eye than Musial? No. Musial had almost 3,000 more ABs than Teddy but struck out even less. If you add in 215 hits form Musial's missed season and 1,000 for Teddy's missed 5 seasons ( though Teddy never had a 200 hit season ) Musial still out hits him by 250 hits or so. Don't forget the right field line was 302 feet for the left handed pull hitting Williams...

Sorry James. You are simply incorrect.
Best. Hitter. Ever.
Even my father, a die-hard Gas House Gang Cardinal fan and lover of all things Cardinal, admitted Williams was the greatest hitter of all time.
Musial might have been a better overall ball player, although Williams defense is often overlooked, but “hitter” it was alll The Splendid Splinter.

 

[joelbc1]

Wrong. Stan Musial was the best hitter ever. He also missed the entire '45 season in the Navy, which was in between seasons when he averaged 215 hits per season. Teddy never even lead the league in hits or had 200 hits. Musial lead the league in hits 6 times, doubles 5 times, triples 4 times. Williams never lead the league in hits, doubles twice, never in triples, but 4 x in HRs.
What Teddy did best was walk. Did he have a better eye than Musial? No. Musial had almost 3,000 more ABs than Teddy but struck out even less. If you add in 215 hits form Musial's missed season and 1,000 for Teddy's missed 5 seasons ( though Teddy never had a 200 hit season ) Musial still out hits him by 250 hits or so. Don't forget the right field line was 302 feet for the left handed pull hitting Williams...

Williams was NOT a pull hitter as much as a “power alley” hitter...and right center at Fenway was one of the deepest HR ally’s in baseball...Williams was not a Pesky Pole home run hitter....and you better take a good look at old Sportsman Park and all its right to center field quirkiness before you extoll the virtues of that power hitting Musial. Shouldn’t cast stones, James.

 

[BelemNole]

Ted Williams......but I'm severely biased.

 

[86Hawkeye]

Both players are HOF caliber for sure, but I have to go with Rose on this poll.

 

[HawkRugged17]

Of the two choices, I’d definitely go with Pete Rose. He simply has the most recorded hits in MLB history.

If this were an open question I wouldn’t call him the greatest hitter, though. I’d reserve that spot for a dozen or so others like (but not limited to) Ted Williams, Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Honus Wagner, Glenn Beckert....

Yes sir!