Why Hayden lost every Rose Bowl

[jamesvanderwulf]

Turnovers! And a porous run defense. We had five turnovers in each of the three Hayden Fry led Rose Bowls. When you turn the ball over the defense is on the field all day and that was pretty much the story of all three of those games. We were always playing from behind. I think this version of the Hawks are more fundamentally sound than any of those Fry teams. I think we need to run the ball and keep the defense off the field as much as possible.

 

[Auger]

Both Stanford and Iowa are so identical I dont know what to expect in this game so my gut tells me its going to come down to the final 2 mins. Both run games are good. Both passing attacks are effective and both QB's can pick up 3rd and 10's with their legs. Both D's have cracks in them. I do like how B1G teams match up against PAC teams this year and the UCLA Nebraska game was a good indicator of how the two conference styles matchup much like the reg season.

 

[Packer54]

Turnovers! And a porous run defense. We had five turnovers in each of the three Hayden Fry led Rose Bowls. When you turn the ball over the defense is on the field all day and that was pretty much the story of all three of those games. We were always playing from behind. I think this version of the Hawks are more fundamentally sound than any of those Fry teams. I think we need to run the ball and keep the defense off the field as much as possible.

Agree with the turnovers.......also the first Rose Bowl he took us to we were really short on talent on the offensive side of the ball in terms of playmakers. Never the less you turn it over that many times you are bound to lose and lose big. Heck just ONE less turnover in the second Rose Bowl with Washington and it is a one possession game.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Agree with the turnovers.......also the first Rose Bowl he took us to we were really short on talent on the offensive side of the ball in terms of playmakers. Never the less you turn it over that many times you are bound to lose and lose big. Heck just ONE less turnover in the second Rose Bowl with Washington and it is a one possession game.

Also Washington blocked a punt for a TD. Iowa didnt even give themselves a chance even with the furious comeback in the 2nd half

 

[BigDelHawk]

You left out the fact that Harmon was paid to drop the football in 86, four times. A few thousand up front and $250 a month. Thanks Colombo family.

 

[Packer54]

I just looked back on the 81 game......84 yards net passing with 3 picks....yikes. Don't think that will happen this time around!

 

[revkev73]

Nebraska matched up well with UCLA because Armstrong didn't have his normal ration of 4 interceptions...

 

[Jonnymungo]

Rewatched 86' game on UTube. If we would have gone away from Harmon and gave David Hudson the carries, it might have made a difference.once Harmon put the ball on the ground. I understand why they didn't, Harmon was an all american and maybe the best all-purpose back ever at Iowa. Plus Long coulda threw all day downfield against UCLA. Their defense was not very good in the secondary.

Hudson was pounding them earlier in the game. If you re-watch the game you will see what I mean. Iowa was better than UCLA. Their tired defense let Green and Ball run wild in the second half. Woulda loved to play them again. Rewind the game. Start over.

 

[anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba]

It's amazing, really, even without Harmon, that Iowa teams that usually won the TO battle showed up so poorly in the Rose Bowl. No doubt that was the key difference in all three losses under Hayden. Fourteen TOs in Iowa's last three Rose Bowls is a shocking stat. But Iowa has zero TOs in '86 and wins easily if Harmon doesn't play.

So it's time to put those TOs and the Harmon fiasco behind us by winning that elusive Rose Bowl championship on Friday. The Hawkeyes recall 1959 and roll Stanford, 52-24. All Rose Bowl demons are exorcised.

 

[sandiegohawk]

Turnovers! And a porous run defense. We had five turnovers in each of the three Hayden Fry led Rose Bowls. When you turn the ball over the defense is on the field all day and that was pretty much the story of all three of those games. We were always playing from behind. I think this version of the Hawks are more fundamentally sound than any of those Fry teams. I think we need to run the ball and keep the defense off the field as much as possible.

The turnovers are killer. IMO: both Rose Bowls vs Washington, Washington was the better team. The game vs UCLA is a different story.

 

[Packer54]

The turnovers are killer. IMO: both Rose Bowls vs Washington, Washington was the better team. The game vs UCLA is a different story.

I agree with this.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

The turnovers are killer. IMO: both Rose Bowls vs Washington, Washington was the better team. The game vs UCLA is a different story.

Yep. Harmon on the take and Station banged up. That game still haunts me.

 

[BigDelHawk]

Yep. Harmon on the take and Station banged up. That game still haunts me.

The thing is, Harmon cost us a shot at the National Championship, at least the hypothetical one they used to hand out. What would Iowa be today if he had not cashed in for a few measly dollars.

 

[rchawk]

The turnovers are killer. IMO: both Rose Bowls vs Washington, Washington was the better team. The game vs UCLA is a different story.

Agreed. Putting my black and gold glasses aside, the better team won the 1982 and 1991 games.

 

[Arbor1]

The thing is, Harmon cost us a shot at the National Championship, at least the hypothetical one they used to hand out. What would Iowa be today if he had not cashed in for a few measly dollars.

Is this a proven thing with Harmon? That he was bribed?

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Is this a proven thing with Harmon? That he was bribed?

Was OJ guilty?

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

Between the Pac12 Network and Youtube I managed to watch all three again. Didn't think I could or would, but now I'm psyched as ever for another bite at the apple.

Iowa was more competitive than what I remembered in the '82 game. But yes, Bohannon had 3 picks AND a fumble. YIKES. Game was still 13 to 0 late into the third. Granger and Bohannon were making decent runs but often a turnover stopped the Hawks. Oh, and Iowa failed on two 4th-and-shorts and WA converted on its only attempt.

Since that game I always had the utmost respect for Don James and WA. James said afterwards if IA and WA were to play 10 times they would probably split 5 and 5. Tremendously generous statement and GREAT sportsmanship. That made quite an impression on this young Hawk.

 

[Biggus Blockus]

Is this a proven thing with Harmon? That he was bribed?

Never proved...but the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong. Harmon's agent was the infamous Norby Walters. Norby Walters was connected with the mob, in particular, the Vegas mob. From the August 3rd, 1987 Sports Illustrated article called "AGENTS OF TURMOIL":
.....as well as the Bills' second-year running back, Ronnie Harmon, who has admitted receiving $54,172.92 from Walters beginning in his junior year at Iowa. "That's not so much money," Harmon told SI. "That's over two years. What's that, $27,000 a year? I had living expenses—an apartment and a car."

From the same article: Big 10 and Southeastern Conference representatives checked into the possibility that some players involved with Walters might have attempted to shave points in football and basketball games. Harmon fumbled four times in the first half and dropped a pass in the end zone in Iowa's 45-28 loss to UCLA in the 1986 Rose Bowl. Conference officials say they have found no evidence of point shaving.

Also from the same article: Yet not all the money went to feed the poor, hungry relatives: Harmon's $54,000 debt reportedly includes a $25,000 down payment that Walters and Bloom made for him on a leased Mercedes.

The fact that Harmon was on Walter's payroll is well documented. Walters connection with Vegas bookmakers is also well known. There is way too much smoke for there to be no fire. Harmon's quotes to investigators later showed he had no morals and a large appetite for fast money. The Rose Bowl was Harmon's last game and there was a lot of betting action in Vegas, and lots of money to be made. Watch the game replays on Youtube with an open mind and draw your own conclusions.

 

[PhantomFlyer]

Agreed. Putting my black and gold glasses aside, the better team won the 1982 and 1991 games.

Yep, the '91 Huskie team was very good. Mark Brunell at QB, and their defense was great, led by steroid boy, Steve Emtman who was the first overall pick in the '92 draft.

The only one of those games Iowa should have won was against UCLA. Iowa was the better team but gave the game away with all the turnovers.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Also Washington blocked a punt for a TD. Iowa didnt even give themselves a chance even with the furious comeback in the 2nd half

Right. I considered that blocked punt for a TD as a turnover. Hayden out cuted himself on that blocked punt. Right before the snap he moves both the blockers out to double tight end positions, leaving the punter with zero blockers up front. I'm still not sure if it was supposed to be a fake or not but a defender comes straight up the gut and basically takes the ball right off our punters foot and runs it in untouched for the TD.

 

[BigDelHawk]

If you want to read more on Harmon.

http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2002/31/20020801-archive795.html

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Yep, the '91 Huskie team was very good. Mark Brunell at QB, and their defense was great, led by steroid boy, Steve Emtman who was the first overall pick in the '92 draft.

The only one of those games Iowa should have won was against UCLA. Iowa was the better team but gave the game away with all the turnovers.

Yeah, the 1990 Washington team was just a precursor to their 1991 team, which shared the national title with Miami.

Unfortunately, Iowa is quite familiar with Pac-10/12 teams using a major bowl win over us as a springboard to greater success. USC had a similar run, beating us in the Orange Bowl and then winning the AP national title the next year (and the now-stripped BCS title in 2004).

 

[Nipigu]

You left out the fact that Harmon was paid to drop the football in 86, four times.

I heard he felt so badly after the game he wanted to shoot himself, but he kept dropping the gun.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Why will iowa greg lose this one davis?

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Why will iowa greg lose this one davis?

Put the bottle down, it's only Monday.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Coors light

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Coors light

Most Ottomwans drink Busch Light. You must be upper crust.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

When i was growing up it was old style and old Milwaukee and grape malt duck-and upper crust and ottumwa dont go together. But i used to watch the old hayden teams

 

[HawkLogic]

I forgot about the 82 game turnovers, but I do remember a no-name freshman at the time Jacque Robinson running wild for 200 yards vs a defense that had only given up like 80 yards per game on ground in B1G.

Also in 86 game, a relative unknown Ball ran for like 200 yards and a mediocre 6-4-1 UCLA team beat us. Yeah, that game was turnovers, but the run defense was gnashed.

I think Hayden's teams lacked speed on defense and we got abused in those Rose Bowls.

But obviously, Harmon did in the 86 team by himself.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

I forgot about the 82 game turnovers, but I do remember a no-name freshman at the time Jacque Robinson running wild for 200 yards vs a defense that had only given up like 80 yards per game on ground in B1G.

Also in 86 game, a relative unknown Ball ran for like 200 yards and a mediocre 6-4-1 UCLA team beat us. Yeah, that game was turnovers, but the run defense was gnashed.

I think Hayden's teams lacked speed on defense and we got abused in those Rose Bowls.

But obviously, Harmon did in the 86 team by himself.

UCLA was not mediocre. They finished 9 - 2 -1 with road losses @ Washington by 7, @ USC by 3 and tied Tennessee in Knoxville. I do know we trailed Washington only 7 - 0 as halftime approached and Hayden gambled on 4th and 7 @ the Husky 40 yard line with Pete Gales at QB who had just came into the game that series and he badly missed a little swing pass and Washington took over on downs and went the 60 yards in 1:29 ( with the help of a PI call in the end zone, ball put on the 1 yard line back then ) and doubled the lead and we never recovered.

Our D backs were very small back then. Frazier was only 5'9".

 

[IamHawkeye]

Yep. Harmon on the take and Station banged up. That game still haunts me.

I always thought that Ronnie had too much pride in his ability to fumble on purpose,he wouldn't want to be remembered like that in his last college game. Plus the draft coming up. The UCLA defense said afterwards that they had noticed on film that he carried the ball in a way that they could take advantage of it and try for fumbles.. Finally, has anyone ever checked out Vegas to see who made suspicious killings on the game. Well, them's my thoughts.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I always thought that Ronnie had too much pride in his ability to fumble on purpose,he wouldn't want to be remembered like that in his last college game. Plus the draft coming up. The UCLA defense said afterwards that they had noticed on film that he carried the ball in a way that they could take advantage of it and try for fumbles.. Finally, has anyone ever checked out Vegas to see who made suspicious killings on the game. Well, them's my thoughts.

Just watch the replays. Harmon has hands the size of a baseball glove. Some of the drops/fumbles were completely unassisted. Then go watch the replay of the game against Michigan when he got hit by about 6 guys on every carry.

No one fumbles 4 times in a half. Especially someone that never fumbles.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

Just my feeling, but the fact that Harmon fumbled the very first hand-off is, by itself, rather revealing.

Kinda like he wanted to let the goons know right up front who's team he was playing for. Theirs, of course.

 

[MadDogC]

Nebraska matched up well with UCLA because Armstrong didn't have his normal ration of 4 interceptions...

Nebby played good, hope we smashmouth Stanford on the ground like Nebby did UCLA...

 

[tho-hawk]

Why did I even go to youtube? Now I am so freaking mad I could punch the wall. You can't watch the video's of Harmon throwing the game without knowing he was throwing the game. On some, there was nobody even near the ball when Harmon fake fumbled. I was looking for a dropped pass where the ball hit him in the hands, and he just let it go. He didn't even pretend to reach for it when he let it drop. If a presidential candidate wants to win Iowa, Promise Ronnie Harmon and Norby in a prison cell being water boarded and tortured. You'd get my vote.

Yes. I'm still mad. We have proof from testimony that Harmon took pay-offs. We have video showing him dropping easy passes, or fumbling the ball when the tackler is no where near his ball carrying arm. Why the F do you think they were paying him? For his Chip Dip Recipe? They weren't paying him to win games, because players try to do that anyway. Only one thing he can do for $$$, go down quicker, drop passes or fumble.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Whats more: there is a buffalo connection to the mob and oj simpson and both harmon and simpson played for the bills, and harmon screwed up on the bills too

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

Didn't Jim Kelly force Buffalo to get rid of Harmon?

 

[MadDogC]

Didn't Jim Kelly force Buffalo to get rid of Harmon?

If i recall correctly, the spread was 3.5 and they lost by 4...and the kicker slid into the extra point figure-4 style (SAFE!!!) following the RH touchdown and kept them below the spread...but as Kermit The Frog says "that's none of my business"...

 

[starbrown]

It's really sad to know Iowa lost 2 bowl games becuz of Vice. The Rose and the Outback versus Fla. You put those in Iowa's win columns and our bowl results are even more impressive

 

[Scut Farkus]

Never proved...but the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong. Harmon's agent was the infamous Norby Walters. Norby Walters was connected with the mob, in particular, the Vegas mob. From the August 3rd, 1987 Sports Illustrated article called "AGENTS OF TURMOIL":
.....as well as the Bills' second-year running back, Ronnie Harmon, who has admitted receiving $54,172.92 from Walters beginning in his junior year at Iowa. "That's not so much money," Harmon told SI. "That's over two years. What's that, $27,000 a year? I had living expenses—an apartment and a car."

From the same article: Big 10 and Southeastern Conference representatives checked into the possibility that some players involved with Walters might have attempted to shave points in football and basketball games. Harmon fumbled four times in the first half and dropped a pass in the end zone in Iowa's 45-28 loss to UCLA in the 1986 Rose Bowl. Conference officials say they have found no evidence of point shaving.

Also from the same article: Yet not all the money went to feed the poor, hungry relatives: Harmon's $54,000 debt reportedly includes a $25,000 down payment that Walters and Bloom made for him on a leased Mercedes.

The fact that Harmon was on Walter's payroll is well documented. Walters connection with Vegas bookmakers is also well known. There is way too much smoke for there to be no fire. Harmon's quotes to investigators later showed he had no morals and a large appetite for fast money. The Rose Bowl was Harmon's last game and there was a lot of betting action in Vegas, and lots of money to be made. Watch the game replays on Youtube with an open mind and draw your own conclusions.

The week before the 86 Rose Bowl, I was in my hometown talking with an old HS friend who at that time was living and working in Vegas. He told me that the word around Vegas was that "Ronnie Harmon is going to fumble as many times as it takes" for Iowa to lose.