Win totals for HF and KF

[nitewing]

in 20 season HF had 143 wins, in 19 seasons KF has 143 wins
HF 143 wins 89 losses and 6 ties
KF before the season 138 wins 92 losses 0 ties. updated 143 wins 95 losses 0 ties.

both reached 143 wins in the same number of games. of 238 total games, 1 more and KF becomes that all time leader in wins in Iowa's history.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

This is a nit, but the sources I find have KF at 140.

 

[HemiHawk]

Wow that's pretty cool and incredibly similar.

 

[nitewing]

This is a nit, but the sources I find have KF at 140.

that was the updated a couple weeks ago, just was surprised how close they were. both were very consistent, they both had their up years and their down years,
Fry had to get out of coaching because of his illness. KF is about to see if his son can take over and has put together a young aggressive staff while keeping a few experienced coaches to guide the youngsters,
KOK is 65 who knows how long he will stay as I expect him to be the 1st to retire
then Morgan as he is in his 60's as well.

 

[scotthawk1964]

This is why those who hate Kirk Ferentz should also have hated Hayden Fry. Mediocrity with the occasional great season every 3 or 4 years has been the norm since 1979, and the BIG is much tougher then it was when Hayden coached.

 

[HawkAlum2002]

Ferentz is at 140. And Hayden had 6 ties, so that's 3 extra "wins" as far as winning percentage as well even if Kirk does tie the career wins later this year. Hayden also didn't the get the extra game like Kirk has the last 15 seasons when they went to a 12 game regular season or he'd have at least 11 more wins I'd think.

 

[Legend12]

This is a nit, but the sources I find have KF at 140.

So does the Sports Information Department, which is approximately 1,000,000,000,000 more reliable than the OP.

 

[nitewing]

Ferentz is at 140. And Hayden had 6 ties, so that's 3 extra "wins" as far as winning percentage as well even if Kirk does tie the career wins later this year. Hayden also didn't the get the extra game like Kirk has the last 15 seasons when they went to a 12 game regular season or he'd have at least 11 more wins I'd think.

that's why I added the number of games by each, it doesn't matter how many years just a example 150 games coached is still 150 games coached the results stay the same,

 

[HawkIDrummer]

that's why I added the number of games by each, it doesn't matter how many years just a example 150 games coached is still 150 games coached the results stay the same,

That's a fair measure... as long as you put the * by the extra non-con patsy Kirk has had every year since 2002 with the 12 game schedule.

As for why people might view them differently despite similar records.

1. historical perspective. Hayden's success came after years of Hawkeye futility at a place nobody thought could win. Kirk took over a program with fans who were used to winning.

2. When Hayden got beat, his team just wasn't good enough. Kirk often looks like he's mailing it in when they lose to inferior teams (hell, even when he wins sometimes). One need look no further than this season for examples.

Two good coaches for a 40 year run.

 

[Legend12]

that's why I added the number of games by each, it doesn't matter how many years just a example 150 games coached is still 150 games coached the results stay the same,

What also matters is Kirk doesn't have 143 wins, despite your claiming he does.

 

[nitewing]

That's a fair measure... as long as you put the * by the extra non-con patsy Kirk has had every year since 2002 with the 12 game schedule.

As for why people might view them differently despite similar records.

1. historical perspective. Hayden's success came after years of Hawkeye futility at a place nobody thought could win. Kirk took over a program with fans who were used to winning.

2. When Hayden got beat, his team just wasn't good enough. Kirk often looks like he's mailing it in when they lose to inferior teams (hell, even when he wins sometimes). One need look no further than this season for examples.

Two good coaches for a 40 year run.

Hayden had more than his share of patsies on his schedule. so stop making it look like Hayden was scheduling a murderers row in the OOC,

OMFG you can't keep from trashing KF can you.

 

[Fan In Black]

This is why those who hate Kirk Ferentz should also have hated Hayden Fry. Mediocrity with the occasional great season every 3 or 4 years has been the norm since 1979, and the BIG is much tougher then it was when Hayden coached.

Its possible to like Hayden more in my world. For many reasons. I look at the whole picture and not just wins and loses. However I cant argue based on results.

 

[LuteHawk]

The difference between Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz
is all about personalities. Fry could schmoooooooz with
the reporters with his folksy Texan drawl and humor.
He enjoyed the press conferences.

Kirk is more straight laced and uptight in his interaction
with the reporters. He offers no bits of wisdom and
does not enjoy the press conferences.

Bottom Line: Both Fry an Ferentz were great coaches
at Iowa. We were fortunate to have them both.

 

[the Howler]

Kirk is also 1-2 in BCS-type games, while Hayden was 0-3. All five of those losses were pretty damn ugly, too, so the '10 Orange Bowl win is pretty special.

That to me is a huge criterion when assessing both careers.

 

[Mesahawk1]

Hayden had more than his share of patsies on his schedule. so stop making it look like Hayden was scheduling a murderers row in the OOC,
OMFG you can't keep from trashing KF can you.

Just believing (as I do) that Hayden Fry was a clearly better coach does not equal "trashing KF". I have followed Iowa football since my freshman year at the U of Iowa (1974), and I like and respect Kirk Ferentz as a man. But IN MY OPINION AND BASED ON MY PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS Hayden was a better football coach. You may have a different opinion, that's fine. We're both Hawkeye fans (at least I know I am), let's focus on our shared enthusiasm and goals.

 

[markfromj]

I always hate the term "winningest" when it is used for number of wins. Many "winningest" coaches are also the "losingest" coaches at that school as well.

Shouldn't "winningest"-ness be a percentage thing with some minimum number of games?

 

[HawkIDrummer]

Hayden had more than his share of patsies on his schedule. so stop making it look like Hayden was scheduling a murderers row in the OOC,

OMFG you can't keep from trashing KF can you.

OMFG? Are you fifteen?

Not trashing KFz. He didn't initiate the 12 game schedule which gave Power 5 teams one more non-con game every year. It's just a fact. He, along with many other coaches have been able to grab some extra Ws as a result.

 

[scotthawk1964]

Its possible to like Hayden more in my world. For many reasons. I look at the whole picture and not just wins and loses. However I cant argue based on results.

I love Hayden, and I like Kirk. Doesn't mean I am happy with the up and down seasons, but I understand why.

 

[Fan In Black]

I love Hayden, and I like Kirk. Doesn't mean I am happy with the up and down seasons, but I understand why.

Oh ya me too. I accepted that years ago. I always find it interesting that both had similiar success with polar opposite (IMO) approaches.

 

[scotthawk1964]

Drake and Northwestern were sure Victories and Iowa State was as close to assured as you can get when Fry was at Iowa. But the Big ten in general is much better from top to bottom then it was when Fry coached. That aside, I love Fry, and I think we have had two great coaches back to back.

 

[soybean]

Just believing (as I do) that Hayden Fry was a clearly better coach does not equal "trashing KF". I have followed Iowa football since my freshman year at the U of Iowa (1974), and I like and respect Kirk Ferentz as a man. But IN MY OPINION AND BASED ON MY PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS Hayden was a better football coach. You may have a different opinion, that's fine. We're both Hawkeye fans (at least I know I am), let's focus on our shared enthusiasm and goals.

I think Mesahawk summed it up very well. Anyone who was not alive during the preceding two decades before Hayden arrived may not be able to fully grasp what a heavy lift he had and how much it meant to the state.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I think Mesahawk summed it up very well. Anyone who was not alive during the preceding two decades before Hayden arrived may not be able to fully grasp what a heavy lift he had and how much it meant to the state.

Agreed. ^^ Iowa was pretty bad for many years before Fry arrived...but I think the genius of Hayden went beyond his own character...he brought/hired many very high quality assistants. Fry deserves all the credit he can get for turning the Hawk program around, but I think to be fair you have to also recognize that staff that he had...it was truly as good as it gets in college FB.

In Fry's last years many of those coaches moved on to head coaching jobs and it was difficult to replace those studs with the same caliber as potential assistants knew that Fry was late in his career and it was tough to keep the staff at such a high level.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

I think Mesahawk summed it up very well. Anyone who was not alive during the preceding two decades before Hayden arrived may not be able to fully grasp what a heavy lift he had and how much it meant to the state.

Be careful. That kind of intelligent historical perspective will get you labeled an old white male. (feel free to randomly throw "racist" in there too...if it suits your mood. That's how it's done)

 

[cecilB]

The difference between Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz
is all about personalities. Fry could schmoooooooz with
the reporters with his folksy Texan drawl and humor.
He enjoyed the press conferences.

Kirk is more straight laced and uptight in his interaction
with the reporters. He offers no bits of wisdom and
does not enjoy the press conferences.

Bottom Line: Both Fry an Ferentz were great coaches
at Iowa. We were fortunate to have them both.

Coach Fry hated press conferences. Didn’t mean he didn’t entertain, almost always did...either chewing them out, telling jokes, or poor boying the injury situation.

 

[NI hawk]

I always hate the term "winningest" when it is used for number of wins. Many "winningest" coaches are also the "losingest" coaches at that school as well.

Shouldn't "winningest"-ness be a percentage thing with some minimum number of games?

I have always somewhat thought the same thing. Tom Davis won more games than any other basketball coach, but also lost more.

 

[K OKeefe]

I think Mesahawk summed it up very well. Anyone who was not alive during the preceding two decades before Hayden arrived may not be able to fully grasp what a heavy lift he had and how much it meant to the state.

Those two decades that you mention were as futile as Iowa State's futility in football. Fry resurrected a two decade old dead football team- Coach Ferentz rebuilt the Hawkeyes.