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EagleHawk

HB Heisman
Jan 16, 2002
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Sounds like at least on NCAA player is already figuring out what Clark has hinted at for her future. WNBA is worthing leaving college early for. Will be interesting to see if the NBA has some way to prop up salaries for the players. I think that the NY team actually was fined last year for using a charter jet instead of flying commercial. Maybe some of the stars coming out of college now can help the league. I have seen the WNBA compared to the NBA in the 70s prior to Magic/Bird arriving. I think part of the problem is there aren't' enough teams for all of the players coming out of college to get in, when you have the superstars playing for 15-20 years.


Fans of women’s basketball received some surprising news today.

UCLA guard Charisma Osborne has decided to return to school for another season after having previously declared for the WNBA Draft.


The decision was very unexpected as Osborne was projected to be a top 10 pick in the draft after leading the Bruins to a 4-seed in the NCAA Tournament and an appearance in the Sweet 16.

Since the news has come out, there has been an explanation revealed that does not bode well for the WNBA.

According to the New York Times’ Kris Rhim, Osborne is actually in a better situation at UCLA than she would be if she were to stay in the draft.





According to Rhim, UCLA coach Cori Close consulted with some peers in the WNBA and this is what one of those peers had to say about the decision Osborne had to make:

“Does Charisma want to make more money and stay in college and get massages, fly charter, have everything paid for, have a nutritionist, and have her own trainers that are paid for? Or does she want none of those things and fly Southwest with us?”


This paints a pretty bleak picture of the reality for what the top players in women’s college basketball have to look forward to when the time comes to move on to the next level.

The idea that life is this much better in the PAC-12 than in the WNBA could mean that we’ll see many of these players stick around for the entirety of their college eligibility.

It’s just about the opposite of the men’s game, where only players like Oscar Tshiebwe, who are projected later in the NBA Draft, have the opportunity in from of them to make more money with NIL deals than they can in the league.

If this is really an accurate depiction of the difference between life in college and the WNBA, then we might see a whole lot more of Caitlin Clark at Iowa while she continues to enjoy the amenities of being a college athlete and collects those NIL checks.

 
I had thought that Clark would want to get to the pros after next year and start making her impact (as the #1 overall pick) earlier rather than later. With her Nike contract and other NIL, maybe she will stay in school for a 5th year.

If the P12 is a better option than the WNBA, the B1G definitely is.
 
I had thought that Clark would want to get to the pros after next year and start making her impact (as the #1 overall pick) earlier rather than later. With her Nike contract and other NIL, maybe she will stay in school for a 5th year.

If the P12 is a better option than the WNBA, the B1G definitely is.
NIL money might be higher than WNBA salaries and I'm sure there were more viewers for the final four than any WNBA finals.

Yep, a lot higher.
 
If girls start staying in college the college games will be even better and more competitive. It could end up being the better games to watch.
 
Sounds like at least on NCAA player is already figuring out what Clark has hinted at for her future. WNBA is worthing leaving college early for. Will be interesting to see if the NBA has some way to prop up salaries for the players. I think that the NY team actually was fined last year for using a charter jet instead of flying commercial. Maybe some of the stars coming out of college now can help the league. I have seen the WNBA compared to the NBA in the 70s prior to Magic/Bird arriving. I think part of the problem is there aren't' enough teams for all of the players coming out of college to get in, when you have the superstars playing for 15-20 years.


Fans of women’s basketball received some surprising news today.

UCLA guard Charisma Osborne has decided to return to school for another season after having previously declared for the WNBA Draft.



The decision was very unexpected as Osborne was projected to be a top 10 pick in the draft after leading the Bruins to a 4-seed in the NCAA Tournament and an appearance in the Sweet 16.

Since the news has come out, there has been an explanation revealed that does not bode well for the WNBA.

According to the New York Times’ Kris Rhim, Osborne is actually in a better situation at UCLA than she would be if she were to stay in the draft.





According to Rhim, UCLA coach Cori Close consulted with some peers in the WNBA and this is what one of those peers had to say about the decision Osborne had to make:

“Does Charisma want to make more money and stay in college and get massages, fly charter, have everything paid for, have a nutritionist, and have her own trainers that are paid for? Or does she want none of those things and fly Southwest with us?”


This paints a pretty bleak picture of the reality for what the top players in women’s college basketball have to look forward to when the time comes to move on to the next level.

The idea that life is this much better in the PAC-12 than in the WNBA could mean that we’ll see many of these players stick around for the entirety of their college eligibility.

It’s just about the opposite of the men’s game, where only players like Oscar Tshiebwe, who are projected later in the NBA Draft, have the opportunity in from of them to make more money with NIL deals than they can in the league.

If this is really an accurate depiction of the difference between life in college and the WNBA, then we might see a whole lot more of Caitlin Clark at Iowa while she continues to enjoy the amenities of being a college athlete and collects those NIL checks.

Which is why the top players in the day like Sue Bird, Britney Griner, Taurisi, etc all went overseas ( Russia, to be exact) and earned up to a million dollars playing over there. And of course now that's been cut out. I do think they need to expand and add teams ( which is tough to do when losing money) but of course why wouldn't you stay an extra year if you are these girls. Go take whatever classwork is needed in grad school, and enjoy yourself on the court.
 
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My interest for the WNBA and XFL would be higher if they had state teams.

Everybody likes to root for their college heroes. Put a limit on the number of outsiders the states team roster can have like 2-3.
 
The NFL was nothing until Red Grange came along and was so much better than everyone else in the game.
The NBA didn't become what we know today until Magic and Bird happened, followed quickly by Jordan. Guys who were unique and so much better than anyone else.

The WNBA hasn't had that star come in that was significantly unique from every other player while also being dominant. They've had many star bigs that dominated in college. They've had many guards that were good. They haven't had a freak show that did many things nobody else had done. That is what CC is. Scorers don't pass the way she does. Shooters don't have the ball skills she does. Women in general don't have the shooting range she does.

It will be interesting to see if she can come in and be that freak star that becomes must see TV for people, driving ticket sales and viewership, leading to more money in the league and higher salaries. If she can't do it, then I don't think it will ever happen for the WNBA.

I still say, Team USA needs to get her on the roster for the 2024 olympics, even if she stays for the 5th year. A gold medal run would help her "myth" tremendously leading into the WNBA in 2025.
 
I just really don't see the WNBA ever being a major thing, even when CC and others get there. Call me whatever you want, but all the 'legendary' women from college (think Bird, etc.) who went to the WNBA didn't really move the needle any. CC may budge it a tad, but I just don't see it going to a point where it will pay more than college does for these cream-of-the-crop girls like her.
I think college ball--for the fans--makes the girls...more relatable (for lack of a better term). They feel like they know them and the connection is there. Even if I lived in a city with a team, I don't think that connection would be there. Could be just me....
 
My interest for the WNBA and XFL would be higher if they had state teams.

Everybody likes to root for their college heroes. Put a limit on the number of outsiders the states team roster can have like 2-3.
Naw. Let each team build the way they want to. If they think the product will sell better with more local players they can do that right now.
 
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Sounds like at least on NCAA player is already figuring out what Clark has hinted at for her future. WNBA is worthing leaving college early for. Will be interesting to see if the NBA has some way to prop up salaries for the players. I think that the NY team actually was fined last year for using a charter jet instead of flying commercial. Maybe some of the stars coming out of college now can help the league. I have seen the WNBA compared to the NBA in the 70s prior to Magic/Bird arriving. I think part of the problem is there aren't' enough teams for all of the players coming out of college to get in, when you have the superstars playing for 15-20 years.


Fans of women’s basketball received some surprising news today.

UCLA guard Charisma Osborne has decided to return to school for another season after having previously declared for the WNBA Draft.



The decision was very unexpected as Osborne was projected to be a top 10 pick in the draft after leading the Bruins to a 4-seed in the NCAA Tournament and an appearance in the Sweet 16.

Since the news has come out, there has been an explanation revealed that does not bode well for the WNBA.

According to the New York Times’ Kris Rhim, Osborne is actually in a better situation at UCLA than she would be if she were to stay in the draft.





According to Rhim, UCLA coach Cori Close consulted with some peers in the WNBA and this is what one of those peers had to say about the decision Osborne had to make:

“Does Charisma want to make more money and stay in college and get massages, fly charter, have everything paid for, have a nutritionist, and have her own trainers that are paid for? Or does she want none of those things and fly Southwest with us?”


This paints a pretty bleak picture of the reality for what the top players in women’s college basketball have to look forward to when the time comes to move on to the next level.

The idea that life is this much better in the PAC-12 than in the WNBA could mean that we’ll see many of these players stick around for the entirety of their college eligibility.

It’s just about the opposite of the men’s game, where only players like Oscar Tshiebwe, who are projected later in the NBA Draft, have the opportunity in from of them to make more money with NIL deals than they can in the league.

If this is really an accurate depiction of the difference between life in college and the WNBA, then we might see a whole lot more of Caitlin Clark at Iowa while she continues to enjoy the amenities of being a college athlete and collects those NIL checks.

Highlighted at top, doesn't the NBA already do this?

As it stands, WNBA is not a sustainable product.
 
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Highlighted at top, doesn't the NBA already do this?

As it stands, WNBA is not a sustainable product.
get them out of NBA and other pro cities... Put teams in places like Des Moines or wherever there is a hot bed of interest. Some of these franchises are struggling to fill a Burger king, let alone an arena
 
Perhaps Clark can do for the WNBA that she's done for college basketball? But it would take a mountain of money for her to do it. I expect Clark to stay at Iowa until she's used up every drop of eligibility.
You look at Seattle and they put 10k in the seats... Clark will do that and them some wherever she ends up. But, yes... make hay while you can, CC.
 
get them out of NBA and other pro cities... Put teams in places like Des Moines or wherever there is a hot bed of interest. Some of these franchises are struggling to fill a Burger king, let alone an arena
This is a great point. The WNBA will never be a multi-billion dollar league. So they shouldn't be competing with multi-billion dollar sports teams in the same market. They should look at the next tier of cities, aka the AAA baseball cities like Des Moines for expansion. They only play 36 games. Des Moines could handle 18 home games at Wells Fargo with high-end talent and competition.

Hell, LA and New York averaged less than 6,000 fans per game last year. Des Moines would easily beat that with the right players, leadership, and ticket prices. The Quad Cities used to sell out The Mark at 9,000 people regularly for hockey and arena football.

Some smart business person in Des Moines needs to be figuring out how to get an expansion team playing at Wells Fargo Arena, starting up just in time to get the #1 overall draft pick when CC enters the draft. Could print your own money with the ticket sales of having the hometown girl.
 
Sounds like at least on NCAA player is already figuring out what Clark has hinted at for her future. WNBA is worthing leaving college early for. Will be interesting to see if the NBA has some way to prop up salaries for the players. I think that the NY team actually was fined last year for using a charter jet instead of flying commercial. Maybe some of the stars coming out of college now can help the league. I have seen the WNBA compared to the NBA in the 70s prior to Magic/Bird arriving. I think part of the problem is there aren't' enough teams for all of the players coming out of college to get in, when you have the superstars playing for 15-20 years.


Fans of women’s basketball received some surprising news today.

UCLA guard Charisma Osborne has decided to return to school for another season after having previously declared for the WNBA Draft.



The decision was very unexpected as Osborne was projected to be a top 10 pick in the draft after leading the Bruins to a 4-seed in the NCAA Tournament and an appearance in the Sweet 16.

Since the news has come out, there has been an explanation revealed that does not bode well for the WNBA.

According to the New York Times’ Kris Rhim, Osborne is actually in a better situation at UCLA than she would be if she were to stay in the draft.





According to Rhim, UCLA coach Cori Close consulted with some peers in the WNBA and this is what one of those peers had to say about the decision Osborne had to make:

“Does Charisma want to make more money and stay in college and get massages, fly charter, have everything paid for, have a nutritionist, and have her own trainers that are paid for? Or does she want none of those things and fly Southwest with us?”


This paints a pretty bleak picture of the reality for what the top players in women’s college basketball have to look forward to when the time comes to move on to the next level.

The idea that life is this much better in the PAC-12 than in the WNBA could mean that we’ll see many of these players stick around for the entirety of their college eligibility.

It’s just about the opposite of the men’s game, where only players like Oscar Tshiebwe, who are projected later in the NBA Draft, have the opportunity in from of them to make more money with NIL deals than they can in the league.

If this is really an accurate depiction of the difference between life in college and the WNBA, then we might see a whole lot more of Caitlin Clark at Iowa while she continues to enjoy the amenities of being a college athlete and collects those NIL checks.

This is something I have been thinking about over the last couple of weeks. I think the highest salary in the WNBA is 253K, which doesn't include endorsements. I also see the average attendance at a WNBA game is around 5,600 with the highest team's attendance being just over 10,000. Clark is playing in front of 15K at Carver. I don't believe Clark would EVER be getting this much exposure and media in the WNBA. Her endorsements are likely to be higher in college as she is the face of of the Women's NCAA and is raising tv ratings as well as selling tickets. Honestly, from a financial perspective and getting exposure, CC would be wise to play another two years at Iowa. Clark will likely rake in millions in college over the next two year, IMO.
 
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Quite frankly, and I say this with honesty, until women decide to start increasing viewership in women's basketball, it will stay as is. They need to support their own more for it to be competitive and to grow. I work in a female-centric workplace, many state they're Iowa fans that all work in the local area (Iowa City), and honestly, nobody really knew about Caitlin until I told them. It took two years of that and now they're talking about her but still only with me and because they know I'm obsessed with her game. They have little else to add and only watched the Final 4 and Championship. Not all women are like this of course, I've seen diehards as well that know far more than I do, but I bet, on average, those types aren't nearly as prevalent as the amount of men watching and supporting.

Women need to support women playing and only then will it become able to independently support itself. For one to expect men to continue to be such a large percentage of the viewership is asinine ideology, especially in today's society, where men are increasingly being viewed as a hindrance regarding women advancement. In reality, men have been propping up women's basketball, at least, as equally as women have.

Just so people don't accuse me of being sexist in some capacity, here ya go:

 
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I don't think your experience is typical. I know a ton of women who are huge Iowa womens hoops fans.

Go to a womens game at CHA and you'll see a much higher percentage of women in the crowd than men's games.
 
I had thought that Clark would want to get to the pros after next year and start making her impact (as the #1 overall pick) earlier rather than later. With her Nike contract and other NIL, maybe she will stay in school for a 5th year.

If the P12 is a better option than the WNBA, the B1G definitely is.
She will get far more exposure in College, although she is an opportunity for the WNBA to raise their profile. They need to be ready for her, and really all of the stars who are in college right now. They need to find a way to get Clark on a large market team. I'd say Chicago, but I'm biased. But she needs to end up in either LA, Chicago, or New York. A place that has a huge opportunity for increasing their fan base and the overall profile of the league.

When is the WNBA's next TV contract? Given the ratings now just the idea of her being in the WNBA could make that better for them. Although, it remains to be seen if popularity in college transfers to the WNBA.
 
I don't think your experience is typical. I know a ton of women who are huge Iowa womens hoops fans.

Go to a womens game at CHA and you'll see a much higher percentage of women in the crowd than men's games.
There are a lot of women at the games, true. But that's not the point. What I'm saying is the living, breathing, and dieing for information about the sport that women don't emulate in terms of men watching. Men, for many, it's a part of their identity and that's directly disproportionate to most, or many, women regarding sports. Most TV viewership of women's basketball is men. 1/3 of the audience for the NBA is female. But only 4% of the female population in the United States watch basketball currently. Most women are also watching men play usually instead of their own gender.

This has to change for women's basketball to be as good as it can be. Young women have to support the sport and do so on a consistent basis to make it happen. That's streaming, watching, paying, and attending. That's essentially being a fan year round and making it a part of your identity. Women have to embrace the sport more, and in larger numbers, because men won't do that for women's sports entirely. That's a utopian mindset.
 
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Wnba would last about 5 minutes in Des Moines.

You need a metro area of a couple million for teams to draw any fans now.

Does the Wild or Wolves pack the house in Des Moines? No. Very very few are going to drive to downtown Des Moines on a winter weeknight to watch the wnba.

Minor League baseball is a different animal. That’s about sitting outside drinking beer. Nobody gives two shits about the product on the field.
 
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The NFL was nothing until Red Grange came along and was so much better than everyone else in the game.
The NBA didn't become what we know today until Magic and Bird happened, followed quickly by Jordan. Guys who were unique and so much better than anyone else.

The WNBA hasn't had that star come in that was significantly unique from every other player while also being dominant. They've had many star bigs that dominated in college. They've had many guards that were good. They haven't had a freak show that did many things nobody else had done. That is what CC is. Scorers don't pass the way she does. Shooters don't have the ball skills she does. Women in general don't have the shooting range she does.

It will be interesting to see if she can come in and be that freak star that becomes must see TV for people, driving ticket sales and viewership, leading to more money in the league and higher salaries. If she can't do it, then I don't think it will ever happen for the WNBA.

I still say, Team USA needs to get her on the roster for the 2024 olympics, even if she stays for the 5th year. A gold medal run would help her "myth" tremendously leading into the WNBA in 2025.
No one will care. The NBA ratings are down from the peak in the 1970s to late 1990s. The WNBA ratings are app 20x lower than the Final four this year. That is for the finals. They were giving away tickets for the finals if I'm not mistaken.
Caitlin Clark is a great athlete but she's not saving the WNBA. It's just basically a tax write off for the NBA. The trouble is women don't watch women's sports in enough numbers for serious money and men like me find most women's sports to be unwatchable. The only women's sport that interest me are track and field and weight sports. And the ratings show there are a lot of people like me.
 
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Which is why the top players in the day like Sue Bird, Britney Griner, Taurisi, etc all went overseas ( Russia, to be exact) and earned up to a million dollars playing over there. And of course now that's been cut out. I do think they need to expand and add teams ( which is tough to do when losing money) but of course why wouldn't you stay an extra year if you are these girls. Go take whatever classwork is needed in grad school, and enjoy yourself on the court.
Wnba has a long way to go. The fact I'm a fan of sports in general and didn't know Bird is a problem. I know Taurisi only from her college days. They need something that transcends the game that brings them in.
 
Quite frankly, and I say this with honesty, until women decide to start increasing viewership in women's basketball, it will stay as is. They need to support their own more for it to be competitive and to grow. I work in a female-centric workplace, many state they're Iowa fans that all work in the local area (Iowa City), and honestly, nobody really knew about Caitlin until I told them. It took two years of that and now they're talking about her but still only with me and because they know I'm obsessed with her game. They have little else to add and only watched the Final 4 and Championship. Not all women are like this of course, I've seen diehards as well that know far more than I do, but I bet, on average, those types aren't nearly as prevalent as the amount of men watching and supporting.

Women need to support women playing and only then will it become able to independently support itself. For one to expect men to continue to be such a large percentage of the viewership is asinine ideology, especially in today's society, where men are increasingly being viewed as a hindrance regarding women advancement. In reality, men have been propping up women's basketball, at least, as equally as women have.

Just so people don't accuse me of being sexist in some capacity, here ya go:

lots of hoops to jump through on that site, care to summarize?
 
lots of hoops to jump through on that site, care to summarize?

In a survey conducted in March 2023 in the United States, 11 percent of male respondents were avid fans of the WNBA.

Level of interest in WNBA in the United States as of March 2023, by gender

table
column chart
CharacteristicAvid fanCasual fanNot a fan
Male 11% 29% 60%
Female 4% 19% 77%
 
In a survey conducted in March 2023 in the United States, 11 percent of male respondents were avid fans of the WNBA.

Level of interest in WNBA in the United States as of March 2023, by gender

table
column chart
CharacteristicAvid fanCasual fanNot a fan
Male 11% 29% 60%
Female 4% 19% 77%
Interesting. I have a hard time believing more than 1 out of 10 guys are avid WNBA fans...and 40% are fans on some level. Where did they do this survey...at a WNBA game?
 
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I need full access to get the information. I don't know the sample size, margin of error, or if any control groups were involved. It was the first one I looked up. Honestly, this just seemed to make logical sense to me so I chose the first one I saw and it corroborated what I already thought to be true. Since surveys are always highly questionable, you can take from it what you will.
 
This is something I have been thinking about over the last couple of weeks. I think the highest salary in the WNBA is 253K, which doesn't include endorsements. I also see the average attendance at a WNBA game is around 5,600 with the highest team's attendance being just over 10,000. Clark is playing in front of 15K at Carver. I don't believe Clark would EVER be getting this much exposure and media in the WNBA. Her endorsements are likely to be higher in college as she is the face of of the Women's NCAA and is raising tv ratings as well as selling tickets. Honestly, from a financial perspective and getting exposure, CC would be wise to play another two years at Iowa. Clark will likely rake in millions in college over the next two year, IMO.

I am not going to speculate what Caitlin is going to do and how much she makes now vs what she would make in the WNBA. Alternatively, I would rather go with what Caitlin has recently stated in a Dan Patrick interview.

Q: Would you be taking a pay cut by heading to the WNBA?

“Not necessarily. I think that’s what gets lost sometimes. I think people don’t understand. NIL is still kind of a thing when you get into pro sports, too. You still have all those endorsements. You still have sponsorships and whatnot, so you’re basically just a professional athlete with that on top of it, too. So, it’s not really something that I would factor into my decision of staying or going too much.”


Caitlin, on how important the WNBA is to her:

“Very important. That’s where I want to be, but I have another year here and possibly one more after that just because of COVID, so probably will have to make a decision on that sometime next year. I really have no clue of what I’m going to do. Stay for an extra year or leave after next year, but I love watching the WNBA.

“I remember really vividly my dad taking me to my first ever WNBA game. Maya Moore was my favorite player growing up. She played for the Minnesota Lynx, so it was pretty convenient. That was only a four hour trip from where I grew up, and I really remember getting to watch her versus Sue Bird and the Seattle Storm. That was like my first ever experience with the WNBA when I was really young.”


 
There is no guarantee those endorsements will stay with her if she turns pro. Unless she has it in the contract.
 
There is no guarantee those endorsements will stay with her if she turns pro. Unless she has it in the contract.

Again, I am not going to speculate. When asked if she'd take a pay cut by heading to the WNBA, she said "not necessarily." CC and her parents clearly know a lot more than they are disclosing. Fans can only speculate and hope that she decides to stay a 5th year.

And yes, I hope she stays a 5th year, but based on what Caitlin has said publicly, it's not the slam dunk that many think it is.
 
Again, I am not going to speculate. When asked if she'd take a pay cut by heading to the WNBA, she said "not necessarily." CC and her parents clearly know a lot more than they are disclosing. Fans can only speculate and hope that she decides to stay a 5th year.

And yes, I hope she stays a 5th year, but based on what Caitlin has said publicly, it's not the slam dunk that many think it is.
I agree.
 
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Back in the day, guys didn't play pro football even if drafted because the money wasn't there. Staying in college another year or two are another year or two of a unique experience one will never have again in their lifetime.
Yep,not until the 70s that it was lucrative to be a pro unless you were a SS.
 
I am not going to speculate what Caitlin is going to do and how much she makes now vs what she would make in the WNBA. Alternatively, I would rather go with what Caitlin has recently stated in a Dan Patrick interview.

Q: Would you be taking a pay cut by heading to the WNBA?

“Not necessarily. I think that’s what gets lost sometimes. I think people don’t understand. NIL is still kind of a thing when you get into pro sports, too. You still have all those endorsements. You still have sponsorships and whatnot, so you’re basically just a professional athlete with that on top of it, too. So, it’s not really something that I would factor into my decision of staying or going too much.”


Caitlin, on how important the WNBA is to her:

“Very important. That’s where I want to be, but I have another year here and possibly one more after that just because of COVID, so probably will have to make a decision on that sometime next year. I really have no clue of what I’m going to do. Stay for an extra year or leave after next year, but I love watching the WNBA.

“I remember really vividly my dad taking me to my first ever WNBA game. Maya Moore was my favorite player growing up. She played for the Minnesota Lynx, so it was pretty convenient. That was only a four hour trip from where I grew up, and I really remember getting to watch her versus Sue Bird and the Seattle Storm. That was like my first ever experience with the WNBA when I was really young.”


Well, that was a good buzzkill. Thanks for that.🤨
 
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Well, that was a good buzzkill. Thanks for that.🤨

I am going to be very happy if she stays the 5th year but at the same time I will not be surprised if she moves on to the next challenge. Keep in mind, too, that she is on pace to break the all time NCAA scoring record in 30 games next season. She's already met her goal of taking Iowa to the Final 4. She's won a B1G (tourney) championship. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
 
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