World Leaders Stand with Ukraine following White House Meeting
- Thread starter noStemsnoSTICKS
- Start date
The average gdp in Ukraine just before the war was about 5k per year.
Honestly, they'd rather have economic support. They don't care about whether they live in poverty in Russia or Ukraine. Oligarchs however do care.
This is wonderful.
They are going to need to get used to it once Trump pulls all our troops out of Europe and withdraws from NATO. (Even if he "technically" can't quit a treaty by EO he will anyway, and as Commander in Chief, it's the same thing.)
Trump's been openly declaring that we should quit NATO for almost 40 years, and tried to withdraw our troops from Europe after he lost the election in 2020.
Trump's been openly declaring that we should quit NATO for almost 40 years, and tried to withdraw our troops from Europe after he lost the election in 2020.
I’ll say it again, you never cease to amaze me with your stupidity.
- Sep 13, 2002
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STop wHitE NIGhting!
Must suck to be in this cult. Never get to come up with your own material.
I almost feel a little bit sorry for you guys. But at the end of the day you only have yourselves to blame.
Possibly stolen valor. @bcherod also claims to speak for the entire US Military. Well, in her specific case, the US Military, Intelligence Community, State Department, etc. She apparently has experience in these and other areas to numerous to type. When she isn't too busy being a legal expert, and professor, a school teacher, or whatever her fantasy of the day is.
I think maybe there is some military experience, and maybe even a CAR in the one case. Although based on who I've seen get a CAR, that doesn't necessarily mean they actually got shot at.
It is beyond my wildest imagination how they can claim to have sworn an oath to the Constitution and be so opposed to listening to an opposing fact set. Don't even try a dissenting opinion. Which also makes me doubt they served with other Americans (who of course come from various different and diverse backgrounds.) Usually military veterans, and especially combat veterans at least will listen to others view points. It's not like we had a lot of choice when we were living in holes in the desert.
I don’t feel sorry for you. I laugh at how dumb you are.
The neocons are willing to fight this war to the last Ukrainian.
We'll see how eager the 'World Leaders' are to send their own folks into the trenches. They don't seem much more eager than the respective populations themselves.
Sheesh, even Russia could beat Luxembourg it appears…
By themselves, maybe.
But Luxembourg is a NATO founding member, so they'd have some help.
Not real big on putting their money where their 'mouth' is though:
- Sep 13, 2002
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Putin started and is continuing the war and appears very very very willing to fight to the last Ukrainian AND the last Russian (as long as it's him).
Yet here you are blathering and argle bargling about "neocons"? Wut?
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org
Obama’s theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
When you say “made them start a war: you seem to be implying an Ukraine had anything to do with it. Let’s start at the beginning. They were brutally invaded by a dictator who has killed thousands of innocent children and women. Ukraine did not start the war.
Next: there were no conditions on the aid we gave Ukraine around the fact they have to “bite their tongue” when we make some decision that literally impacts their lives.
Get this through your f*cking head: Ukraine is an INDEPENDENT nation. They are free to decide their own destiny as they see fit. We have NO RIGHT to say how they do that. If we truly want peace we would invite them to the table before we invite the ruthless dictator who invaded them.
I’d this was WW2, y’all would have been negotiating with Hitler the minute he took Paris,
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
How many Ukrainians do you know? I know many. I have friends in Ukraine, I know people who have lost relatives from Russian aggression.
You act like you know what they want…are you sure you speak for them? I sure as shit don’t speak for them, and I am pretty sure I know a lot more of them than you do.
Imagine hearing the diplomats of another country casually discussing the upcoming replacement of your elected president with their preference:
Nuland: “So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and to have the UN help glue it and, you know, **** the EU.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/3/10/reckless-in-kiev-neocons-putin-and-ukraine
Enter a major crisis that could escalate into a military confrontation. It’s “deja vu all over again” – with the neocons providing the pretext to America’s military interventionists to make the case for muscular intervention or even war, such as Nuland’s former boss, Dick Cheney, the godfather of the 2003 war on Iraq. Cheney was quick to point out that Obama’s weakness prompted Putin to act and that military rather than diplomatic moves are need to deter Putin.
...
A woman for all seasons when it comes to Washington politics, Nuland was at home in the Clinton and Bush administration as she is today at the Obama administration. She served as assistant Vice President Dick Cheney, ambassador to NATO, and an Obama State Department spokesperson before taking on her current position in September 2013.
But there should be no mistaking her ideological leaning. Not only because she’s the spouse of leading neoconservative, Robert Kagan. Or, that she’s the sister-in-law of another prominent Neocon, Fredrick Kagan and wife Kimberly, both think-tank type military historians.
...
They all belong to a Washington clique of neoconservatives that continue to affect foreign policy who, like most of the other collaborators in the movement, haven’t served in the military and are referred to by their detractors as “chicken-hawks”.
“F*** the EU” is the new improvised version of Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and the neocons’ hostility towards “Old Europe”. In his 2003 book, “Of Paradise and Power”, Robert Kagan highlighted the difference and division between the US and Europe – Americans from Mars, Europeans from Venus.
The Kagans reckon Europe should be marginalized because it’s too soft, overly diplomatic.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
Why the f*ck are you posting the world’s longest whataboutism? And why do you keep blathering about neocons that have no relevance to Trump kissing the ass of a murderous dictator while he sells out the one nation that has been fighting that same brutal f*ck.
If you want to have a discussion on the merits of Obama’s foreign policy please start a thread and I’m sure many of us would engage, I am quite confident mistakes were made all throughout the Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden admins. But we are where we are and nothing justifies the approach Trump and his bitch boy Vance are taking.
Finally, I’m pretty sure most of us don’t give a shit who Nuland is married to.
Exactly. They are an independent nation. We don’t owe them shit. We don’t have to have their leader present when talking to a different leader.
European nations should immediately cancel US weapons deals, and start sourcing more systems from themselves, South Korea, Turkey, Israel... Wherever they can. Start with the F-35. and jam it up the backside of Cruz and Cornyn.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
If we are talking about ending a conflict they are a party to we sure as shit should have them at the table. Have you taken a single history class in your life and what type of grade did you get?
Cause you are flunking HBOT and the average here ain’t a high bar to clear.
Most of them I do know what they want. They want to live. I worked with hundreds of farmers in Ukraine and hosted in my home. Even the ethnic Russians don’t want Putin. But they want to live. War is not a good option.
The manager of the internet cafe I knew in Dnipro when I went to Ukraine in 2011 sent me this message.
"I watched the meeting between Trump and Zelensky and I see that Putin and Trump are best friends. This is the reincarnation of Stalin and Hitler, who decided to redivide the whole world."
"I watched the meeting between Trump and Zelensky and I see that Putin and Trump are best friends. This is the reincarnation of Stalin and Hitler, who decided to redivide the whole world."
Just read this thread and others here. The Dems have more compassion for Ukraine then American citizens.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
I agree war is horrible, that is why my ire is at the one person who could stop the war tomorrow…Putin. If Putin stops fighting the war ends. If Zelenskyy stops fighting Ukraine ends.
It is an existential crisis for a country aspiring to be a free, open market democracy and you are enabling it with your support of Trump.
You and your ilk are a disgrace to freedom loving people everywhere. Your support of Trump let’s down those very farmers you mentioned.
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