Wow, what a difference 5 months can make

[Hwk-I-St8]

Not buying season tickets was not the only way Gary and Kirk could have gotten feedback, you know. Hell, as far back as the 2014 Nebraska game meltdown, I am sure that generated some negative messages to Gary and/or Kirk.

But let me ask you: How do you know when changes were made or even planned versus any particular date?

First, a the original message I replied to was about people not buying season tickets and that forcing changes. As far as other means of communication...that's outside the scope of my post, making it a strawman.

As far as how do I know when changes were planned? Well, first, I have a source inside the program (no, I'm not going to "out" them). Second, KF said he was going to be making changes in the presser after the bowl game. Third, we saw some of the changes right after the bowl game (run game coordinator, CJ named starter, Seniors presenting "The Slight Edge", Staff visiting other programs during the off season etc.). Finally, many of the changes are not things you implement in a matter of a month or two between when season tickets went on sale, spring camp and fall camp.

People rationalized not buying season tickets because they wanted to send a message. If they want to believe their "message" was received in time to set the stage for this years success, more power to 'em. It makes for a good laugh.

 

[soybean]

i'm not completely buying this. for a couple of reasons: why did kirk release the 2 deeps in january? why did he do those promotional videos stating that he was going to get back to work and the reason the product wasn't up to snuff was because he was spending too much time fund raising? why even bring this up if you you're not trying to placate the fan base?

if you think the internet fans fom this site were the only ones complaining loudly to the admin, i'm willing to bet you are wrong. this is a business, we are the consumers, and there were a lot of upset consumers. some with a lot of pull and dough to throw around. it's my belief that anyone who thinks this turn around had zero, nada, to do with the unhappiness of the consumer, is naive.

no one is claiming it to be the only reason, but to dismiss it entirely is nonsensible. imo

edit to agree: yes, the season's success are due exclusively to the players and coaches. but there was a facilitator for the change we saw. i think those fans had a say in that change.

Quintana: Are you suggesting that Ferentz and staff were satisfied with 2014 results and decided that they did not to make any changes in 2015? You also, I'm sure,understand that making the announcement of the depth chart so quick after the bowl game is both evidence of a determination to make changes going forward and a attemp to be as fair as possible to Jake Rudock by making it cyrstal clear where he stood with the staff and to give him every possible consideration for his carreer going forward.

Whatever effect we fans had in this situation, and I'm willing to admit it helped to set the tone in Iowa City in early January, but it pales when compared to thinking and action by the staff and players.

 

[hwk23]

Why just the continued focus on season tickets as the single, only way feedback was given? For all you know, a big donor called Gary January 3rd and said "change or you're toast". My letter to Barta was long before "season tickets ordered could be placed". (Not saying my single letter did much, but maybe 500 such letters did.) Recall Kirk's rhetorical question: "Is it really that bad out there?". They heard the consternation in many ways. I do not believe all of that feedback had no impact.

I don't either. This goes beyond football to. Folks do have an impact, one way or another in everything. I do think the complaints were heard and had some influence. Credit the staff and Barta for making the correct changes/adjustments. For example, they could have made extreme and drastic changes, like firing KF, and that might have sent this program into a tailspin for a while. As it ended up, we went 12-0 in the regular season and had one of the best seasons in Hawkeye history.

 

[markfromj]

Mark - You are a good poster so please rethink this and get back to us when you are ready to make a valid point.

Thanks, Soybean.

I think my point was valid. If 37,000 to 0 would create changes (I presume you agree), then wouldn't 37,000 to 30,000 create some changes? I mean, I know 37,000 to 36,900 would not, but 37,000 to 30,000 is no small change.

Change comes on the margin, and is driven by marginal changes.

 

[Quintana]

Quintana: Are you suggesting that Ferentz and staff were satisfied with 2014 results and decided that they did not to make any changes in 2015? You also, I'm sure,understand that making the announcement of the depth chart so quick after the bowl game is both evidence of a determination to make changes going forward and a attemp to be as fair as possible to Jake Rudock by making it cyrstal clear where he stood with the staff and to give him every possible consideration for his carreer going forward.

Whatever effect we fans had in this situation, and I'm willing to admit it helped to set the tone in Iowa City in early January, but it pales when compared to thinking and action by the staff and players.

of course i'm not saying kirk was satisfied with the last few years. i don't know the man personally, but i'm fairly certain he has a very strong desire to succeed. as far as the 2 deep release goes, kirk could just as easily brought the two players into his office and told them his plans, but instead he makes it public? i agree the act was done to help the players and to move forward, but why the public notification.

i am in total agreement with you that all the successes are due to the hard work and the dedication of the staff and players, but i also think there was also a little bit of imparted motivation, from above and outside.

it might be an interesting question to ask him. i wonder how he would answer it?

 

[ih8iast8]

But let me ask you: How do you know when changes were made or even planned versus any particular date?

Simple, I asked one of the coaches.

 

[markfromj]

Simple, I asked one of the coaches.

Fair enough. You seem, then, to have really good info here.

I am afraid the devil is in the details, as always (not that I expect you to have these answers): When were what changes made, versus when was what negative feedback received from who and how many and how influential?

I would sure hate to believe that fans' ("customers") dis-satisfaction has no influence on Kirk et al.

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

I have eaten my share of crow from this past summer and had no problem going back for 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7ths 8ths,9ths, 10ths, 11ths, and 12ths.

I am getting a bit hungry, hopefully I can make a 13th trip through that line.

 

[ih8iast8]

I would sure hate to believe that fans' ("customers") dis-satisfaction has no influence on Kirk et al.

a head coach is far more critical of themselves than the ticket holder ever would be. We also only see 60 minutes of the team 11-12 times a year.

 

[RockEyeState]

I'll admit I was wrong, but the program had gotten stale and needed revival. I'll be the first to admit I didn't think Kirk was the guy to revive it. I was wrong.

Nice to see a Man, step-up and be man. Legion apologized, as many should be doing.
Well done, legion.

But-----haters gonna hate.

GO HAWKS !!

 

[moondog24]

Those "chuckleheads" got the attention of Barta and Kirk, and played an albeit minor part in forcing changes that led to this magical season. I am one of them.

I doubt if Barta or Kirk read message boards.

 

[markfromj]

I doubt if Barta or Kirk read message boards.

Me too.

 

[Hawks_Rock_12]

It's all about the individual fans' perspective on what they believe Iowa football, and Kirk Ferentz...are.

KF is an outstanding coach who got stuck in a rut of doing things colectively "his way". He recognized it - and I don't give a shit what happened to enable that - but he did, and he took steps to correct it. We now see the results. He didn't suddenly get smarter or a better coach, nor was he stupid or a bad coach prior. He merely adjusted to the times...and the results were positive.

I only wish it had been a couple years ago. And I think it's a fool's errand to hold that against him too. It's not like he tried deliberately to suck...but I'll remind you, would you rather have a 4-8 or 7-6 year...or a 2-10 year like our cousins to the northwest suffer through regularly.

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to see Iowa falling to the depths of a Purdue or Iowa State or Illinois. All it takes is one bad coaching hire to happen here at Iowa.



Secondly, fans of the Hawks as witnessed on this board view Iowa football very differently from an expectations as it relates to KF's salary aspect. They believe we're paying $4M a year, we expect $4M a year results - is a view shared by many in the lot. A lot of money in the CFB world, especially when it was signed.

I fully understand that line of thought. I would only say I would agree with that with a caveat.

I don't give a crap who the coach of Iowa is, it's very hard to do what Iowa did this year at Iowa. There's a reason why this has only been done once in all our lifetimes. This is why, even in recent years when Iowa paid $4M for their football coach and we "didn't get our money's worth"...my thinking is KF is a BARGAIN at $4M a year. Here's why.

How much do you think Iowa State would pay a coach to wind up at #5 in the nation after the regular season is over? 80 years of football, 10 seasons ranked, exactly one week in the top 10.

$5M? $8M? How much per year would Iowa State fans be willing for their university to pay any coach that actually led them to a season such as what we just witnessed? Just OPNE season like this? $50M over 10 years?

I'm betting they would, and not think twice about it.

Kirk Ferentz is a bargain, folks. And a great football coach. Would we wish for more seasons like this? Sure. I just wouldn't expect them regularly whether KF is coach, or Knute Rockne or any other great coach there is or ever was. Otherwise, it would have been done a lot more times over the years.

Lets not put KF in for Sainthood just yet. The season isn't over and we could still end up 12-2 with only a Western division title to show for it. Getting to the CCG and Rose Bowl doesn't matter if we don't win them.

 

[ih8iast8]

I doubt if Barta or Kirk read message boards.

I bet Barta has his secretary check the boards for him.

 

[PCBHAWK]

So by another run at a NC, you meant he would start another season? You were right, sorry to have questioned it .

It was a slip, is that what you want to hear?

 

[markfromj]

I doubt if Barta or Kirk read message boards.

Me too but what is the relevance of this here?

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to see Iowa falling to the depths of a Purdue or Iowa State or Illinois. All it takes is one bad coaching hire to happen here at Iowa.

.

The debate last year on Kirk aside, I never did understand the fear of what might happen for being a reason not to get rid of a coach.

The paranoia is going to be thick around here when Kirk does ride off in the sunset. We might as well close shop on the football program at that point, because of that potential for a bad hire

 

[bagdropper]

Lets not put KF in for Sainthood just yet. The season isn't over and we could still end up 12-2 with only a Western division title to show for it. Getting to the CCG and Rose Bowl doesn't matter if we don't win them.

Horsehockey.

I'll take "only" playing in the conference championship game and a NY6 bowl every year, win or lose.

 

[hawkitd]

The state of Iowa and its people invest heavily in its football team. It is perfectly reasonable to expect a return on that investment. By any objective measure, the previous five seasons (2010-2014) were not a good return on the amount of investment made. I do not fault people one bit for pulling their money out of the program after the end of last season; it was a perfectly reasonable decision at the time.

I'm pretty sure you don't know the meaning of invest. Nor do you understand "pulling money out of the program."

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Why just the continued focus on season tickets as the single, only way feedback was given? For all you know, a big donor called Gary January 3rd and said "change or you're toast". My letter to Barta was long before "season tickets ordered could be placed". (Not saying my single letter did much, but maybe 500 such letters did.) Recall Kirk's rhetorical question: "Is it really that bad out there?". They heard the consternation in many ways. I do not believe all of that feedback had no impact.

Because the OP was calling out people who were not going to renew their season tickets to "send a message" to the athletic department and people who didn't renew their season tickets have since taken credit for instigating the changes that led to this season. They are wrong.

Hey, I'm all for people writing to Gary about not being happy. As my friend says: "Feedback is a gift.". Not buying season tickets wasn't the answer and it isn't the reason changes were made and it's not the reason we went 12-0...not even part of the reason. If people want to claim that writing to Gary saying they were unhappy was a motivating factor, I think that's entirely possible. Season ticket boycott....sorry, the timeline doesn't fit. All they accomplished was to take money out of the athletic department's coffers and miss out on being in Kinnick for an incredibly fun season.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Sometimes it takes the extreme case to prove the marginal point: So, to those of you saying fan feedback, including declining to buy season tickets, had no impact: Are you saying that if we sold zero season tickets, that would not have generated other changes? Or even more pressure to succeed?

Not sure I've seen a post saying fan feedback had no impact, the focus has been on season ticket boycotting.

The problem with season ticket sales affecting changes for this season is that the timeline doesn't fit. The changes were well underway, either in planning or implementation, long before season ticket sales even began. If there had been a full season in between, the claim would at least be plausible.

 

[markfromj]

Because the OP was calling out people who were not going to renew their season tickets...

But not only that. He also called out John Muller (Miller?) and "the other site" as people calling for Kirk's head. He did not post solely on the ticket non-renewal feedback channel.

 

[markfromj]

Not sure I've seen a post saying fan feedback had no impact....

Here's three:

"None of the whining over the summer had any influence..."

"I know what you are thinking you accomplished and I respect your right to think that way. But you guys accomplished nothing. Zero. Nada"

"...and all others are who think that their lack of support had anything to do with this season's success"