Youth baseball

[Tenacious E]

Curious of those with kids who have participated on teams that don't bat a continuous lineup, and when that began. I have a 10-year old who is on a team kicking around whether to go to the format of traditional baseball where you only bat if you play rather than batting everyone while subbing players in and out freely at positions. I am sure there will be some who respond/think that if the kid isn't good enough he shouldn't play. I get all of that if your sole focus is to win now. And I suppose this could be the norm for majors level teams and maybe AAA teams that have tryouts and start anew every year. But this is at the cost of player development for future seasons of teams that stay intact for the most part on an annual basis. To me this is short-sighted, especially if you dealing with kids who are TEN. Just curious what people's experience might be and all of that.

 

[at4iowa]

Stupid people doing stupid things. Let every kid hit until high school. At 10 years old, it would be a total disservice to the game to not allow every kid to hit. Even at the AAA level where kids try out.

 

[MitchL]

Many towns/cities over the years have changed from the "let everyone play/learn the game" to a more serious effort to win by playing the best kids. I'm on the fence because when my kids were small, we coached to teach the game and get everyone involved. Today... my grandkids are on traveling teams where they play the best kids and rosters are limited to 10-11 kids. Unfortunately in this scenario, I see some families that simply don't have the financial resources that allow all kids to compete. I'm talking spending $$$ for winter clinics and camps, better equipment, and traveling distances where you might need a couple of nights in a motel/hotel that can run up to $500 for a weekend.

I know of some school districts where the high school coaches like the idea of "weeding out" kids before they reach the 7th grade. High school coaches know they only need 4-5 kids per grade to have a good program. Some smaller towns have a "traveling" team, while still having the traditional "little league" program. Youth sports have been overtaken by parents' desires to have lil Johnny be the star that parent wasn't. I see more of the same in the years ahead.

Now I likely didn't answer your question, and I apologize for my rant, but this trend isn't stopping anytime soon, imo.

 

[hawkifann]

In our Little League, teeball through minors all bat a continuous lineup. At Majors (primarily 11-12), they go to a sub format where the playing time minimum is 2 innings in the field and 1 plate appearance. My son moved to that level as a 10 last year and had many games of minimum PT. In our league, we have coaches who stay with the major league teams and are mostly not coaching their kids (most of their kids have aged through and they came back). With those established coaches, we have a draft every spring and, once picked, you stay on that majors team until you age out. Given that, many of the kids who are riding pine as a 10/11 get good coaching and get to practice with older (often better) kids and then develop into 11s who get less pine time and 12s who don't sit much. Even with that, the majors uses continuous order for fall ball.

Unless your league is setting up really large teams (13+ on the roster), doing anything other than continuous hitting at levels below majors is a waste. Kids need practice time and game reps. Only getting one AB per game year after year for some of these kids is not going to help them grow and it's not going to keep them interested in baseball.

 

[stout1]

Seems to me that if you are weeding out kids before 7th grade you are primarily getting kids who matured more quickly or are old for their grade.

 

[hawkifann]

I can't speak to middle school/high school because that's a bit of a different beast, but at the Youth level, nobody should be weeding out anyone. Ideally, there would be additional outlets for the more talented and/or more competitive kids. Some will opt for travel ball, in some areas there are leagues like we have in Charlotte where the various rec leagues put together teams for kids who want more competitive baseball. The kids play their rec league and then have extra practices and play some tournaments in the area.

It's fine to set up varying levels of competition, but youth ball really should be all about skills development and learning/enjoying the game. There are a variety of ways to do that, but nobody should be "weeding out" kids.

 

[Tenacious E]

In our Little League, teeball through minors all bat a continuous lineup. At Majors (primarily 11-12), they go to a sub format where the playing time minimum is 2 innings in the field and 1 plate appearance. My son moved to that level as a 10 last year and had many games of minimum PT. In our league, we have coaches who stay with the major league teams and are mostly not coaching their kids (most of their kids have aged through and they came back). With those established coaches, we have a draft every spring and, once picked, you stay on that majors team until you age out. Given that, many of the kids who are riding pine as a 10/11 get good coaching and get to practice with older (often better) kids and then develop into 11s who get less pine time and 12s who don't sit much. Even with that, the majors uses continuous order for fall ball.

Unless your league is setting up really large teams (13+ on the roster), doing anything other than continuous hitting at levels below majors is a waste. Kids need practice time and game reps. Only getting one AB per game year after year for some of these kids is not going to help them grow and it's not going to keep them interested in baseball.

All interesting responses thanks. I am hoping they don't go down that road because it would be a point of no return, both figuratively and literally for next year.

 

[2bagger22]

Seems to me that if you are weeding out kids before 7th grade you are primarily getting kids who matured more quickly or are old for their grade.

Agreed. I remember a continuous lineup until high school baseball but I didn't play travel until high school. I don't see why you would restrict at bats to only 9 players at the ages of 10-11 other than to weed kids out.

 

[SoDakHawk]

My kid plays on our town's Legion team which is travel ball. We carry two legion teams (varsity and JV) at his age group (U12) and no player is turned away. Towns our size can't afford to turn kids away from sports so every player that shows interest is accepted and developed. The level of play on my kid's team is solid. His team could play with and beat any team in the area (Sioux Falls to Sioux City) and is expected to contend at the SD State VFW tournament this July.

I know a few parents who have kids on teams in Sioux City and was suprised to hear that Little League ball has been all but abandoned. Well, Morningside and Headid are still putting out quality teams but was told Westside LL has been abandoned for travel ball. Don't know if true but was told that it is not because every parent thinks their kid is an all-star. The problem was with rec orgs like Little League you had kids on teams who had never picked up a baseball, couldn't throw, catch, hit, etc. I'm sorry, but that type of situation stinks for everyone involved. When you have multiple players on a team that have never played before, it might be fun for that kid to "try" baseball but it can get very frustrating for kids who have been playing since t-ball. I can understand when they decided to just form travel teams with friends and play travel ball rather than LL ball. They aren't expecting to win championships, just have a good time.

Edit: and to answer the OP, bat everyone and free substitution. It's the best way to develop all the kids. There are tournaments out there with rules for anything you are looking for, from strict lineup rules, to free substitutions, lead-off, no lead-off, ,etc. Plenty of options.

 

[Tenacious E]

My kid plays on our town's Legion team which is travel ball. We carry two legion teams (varsity and JV) at his age group (U12) and no player is turned away. Towns our size can't afford to turn kids away from sports so every player that shows interest is accepted and developed. The level of play on my kid's team is solid. His team could play with and beat any team in the area (Sioux Falls to Sioux City) and is expected to contend at the SD State VFW tournament this July.

I know a few parents who have kids on teams in Sioux City and was suprised to hear that Little League ball has been all but abandoned. Well, Morningside and Headid are still putting out quality teams but was told Westside LL has been abandoned for travel ball. Don't know if true but was told that it is not because every parent thinks their kid is an all-star. The problem was with rec orgs like Little League you had kids on teams who had never picked up a baseball, couldn't throw, catch, hit, etc. I'm sorry, but that type of situation stinks for everyone involved. When you have multiple players on a team that have never played before, it might be fun for that kid to "try" baseball but it can get very frustrating for kids who have been playing since t-ball. I can understand when they decided to just form travel teams with friends and play travel ball rather than LL ball. They aren't expecting to win championships, just have a good time.

Edit: and to answer the OP, bat everyone and free substitution. It's the best way to develop all the kids. There are tournaments out there with rules for anything you are looking for, from strict lineup rules, to free substitutions, lead-off, no lead-off, ,etc. Plenty of options.

My kid is actually doing little league and USSSA concurrently. LL is very strict on equalization (continuous line up, no dropped third strike rule, no lead-offs etc) whereas USSSA is as close to real baseball as you can get, but allows a continuous lineup. Within USSSA there are A, AA, AAA, and Majors teams. Both my son and I prefer the "real" baseball played in USSSA, as it really teaches pitchers at a young age about keeping base runners honest, developing pick-off moves, etc, and teaches you how to be a smart base runner. Love most things about it, but not enough to sacrifice playing time/development so he can get another trophy he'll throw away once he's grown up and on his own.

 

[hansenhawk]

I don't know, but having a 9 year old and watching 3rd/4th grade games is absolutely miserable. Just praying for outs that never happen.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

I don't know, but having a 9 year old and watching 3rd/4th grade games is absolutely miserable. Just praying for outs that never happen.

Ball 4, ball 8, Low and hes walked the bases loaded on 12 straight pitches............

 

[MitchL]

When I refer to "weeding" out, it's more of an issue where the coaches are playing to win rather than encouraging others to not participate, if that makes sense. It's easy to see which kids never "pick up a ball" other than at an organized practice. You have to reward the kids that put in the time to improve. Or reward the parents who have helped their child improve.
I realize every kid develops at a different pace. In USSSA, kids are grouped by age, not grade. You do not have kids that are "held back" by parents to gain a competitive advantage by being more mature for their grade.
Unfortunately, this is kind of like life in the later years. Life in the real world is competitive.

 

[iowalaker]

When I was young, we played double headers. First game was always the best lineup and that second game was for the other players and to play other positions for the regulars. Obviously if you're in tourneys, you play to win and the kids might not see a bunch of playing time. No idea whats the best. Ideally all youth teams would only have about 15 players tops. Nothing wrong with having more teams so kids get to play.

 

[unIowa]

Don't know if true but was told that it is not because every parent thinks their kid is an all-star. The problem was with rec orgs like Little League you had kids on teams who had never picked up a baseball, couldn't throw, catch, hit, etc. I'm sorry, but that type of situation stinks for everyone involved. When you have multiple players on a team that have never played before, it might be fun for that kid to "try" baseball but it can get very frustrating for kids who have been playing since t-ball.

Its true and rec ball is truly an awful experience.

 

[ANYCHawk]

Ball 4, ball 8, Low and hes walked the bases loaded on 12 straight pitches............

HOW ARE THESE GUYS LAYING OFF PITCHES THAT CLOSE!

 

[ANYCHawk]

The problem was with rec orgs like Little League you had kids on teams who had never picked up a baseball, couldn't throw, catch, hit, etc. I'm sorry, but that type of situation stinks for everyone involved. When you have multiple players on a team that have never played before, it might be fun for that kid to "try" baseball but it can get very frustrating for kids who have been playing since t-ball.

This is so ridiculous I actually had to walk around for a minute and cool down for a sec before responding.

Sorry man that's the price of business of living in a community and having your kids interact with other kids. They get interested and back out again of things all the time. They deserve a chance to try something new and if they are a bit behind everybody has to just deal with. My dad and I coached my younger brother through most of little league (he could never coach me I wouldn't listen on a field). We always had the three girls in the league in our team, we had the kid who had a disability where he could barely walk let alone run, we had the new kid in town each year. Everybody batted and everybody played every position (over the course of two games) except for pitcher and catcher. But, if you wanted to try to pitch or catch you we're given the opportunity.

So yeah while it has its difficulties see Kelly drop the ball at first base on many throws. Or watching Mike play shortstop since he could make more than a step either way. You know what by the end of the year Kelly knew the four ways to hold a glove and could catch the ball and Mike still had the biggest smile on the team. Heck our team even made the championship one of those year. Kelly came up to bat base loaded down one in the last inning. Everybody is sitting there in their head going "walk, walk, walk, please got let her get a walk." You know what she got a single and the next guy won the game. Felt bad for the walk off kid but he and her teams were way more interested in celebrating and being happy for Kelly than Joe Carter.

I'm sorry they are 8-12. It's about building confidence, getting better, making friends, learning patience -- such as dealing with those not as advance --, etc. All those skills are way more important than the score or making sure the best players are happy. "Dealing" with those weaker kids isn't a pain (well if it is you do it the wrong way, i.e. stick in right field, bat em last and don't really try to coach them to get better) it's one of the best parts of rec leagues.

Who knows maybe tomorrow you're kid will say "Dad I've gotten into drawing lately and I'd like to learn more." It's a new interest so you're not going to spend tons of bucks, but hey the Y has a class so you sign him up. You got a few advanced kids in the class who roll their eyes and parents make comments under the breath how the teacher is spending so much more time with your kids and that its really a frustrating cause their kid have been doing it since Kindergarten and yours just decided to pick it up. My guess is you'd be pretty pissed.

 

[Tenacious E]

This is so ridiculous I actually had to walk around for a minute and cool down for a sec before responding.

Sorry man that's the price of business of living in a community and having your kids interact with other kids. They get interested and back out again of things all the time. They deserve a chance to try something new and if they are a bit behind everybody has to just deal with. My dad and I coached my younger brother through most of little league (he could never coach me I wouldn't listen on a field). We always had the three girls in the league in our team, we had the kid who had a disability where he could barely walk let alone run, we had the new kid in town each year. Everybody batted and everybody played every position (over the course of two games) except for pitcher and catcher. But, if you wanted to try to pitch or catch you we're given the opportunity.

So yeah while it has its difficulties see Kelly drop the ball at first base on many throws. Or watching Mike play shortstop since he could make more than a step either way. You know what by the end of the year Kelly knew the four ways to hold a glove and could catch the ball and Mike still had the biggest smile on the team. Heck our team even made the championship one of those year. Kelly came up to bat base loaded down one in the last inning. Everybody is sitting there in their head going "walk, walk, walk, please got let her get a walk." You know what she got a single and the next guy won the game. Felt bad for the walk off kid but he and her teams were way more interested in celebrating and being happy for Kelly than Joe Carter.

I'm sorry they are 8-12. It's about building confidence, getting better, making friends, learning patience -- such as dealing with those not as advance --, etc. All those skills are way more important than the score or making sure the best players are happy. "Dealing" with those weaker kids isn't a pain (well if it is you do it the wrong way, i.e. stick in right field, bat em last and don't really try to coach them to get better) it's one of the best parts of rec leagues.

Who knows maybe tomorrow you're kid will say "Dad I've gotten into drawing lately and I'd like to learn more." It's a new interest so you're not going to spend tons of bucks, but hey the Y has a class so you sign him up. You got a few advanced kids in the class who roll their eyes and parents make comments under the breath how the teacher is spending so much more time with your kids and that its really a frustrating cause their kid have been doing it since Kindergarten and yours just decided to pick it up. My guess is you'd be pretty pissed.

That is an interesting take. I mostly agree. His LL team definitely has the full spectrum of kids in terms of ability and/or athleticism and I like him making new friends or at least acquaintances all of the time. Being social and having a network of friends is important at every age, but especially with middle school around the corner.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

I don't know, but having a 9 year old and watching 3rd/4th grade games is absolutely miserable. Just praying for outs that never happen.

Funny, my 9 year old is having his first ever baseball practice tonight. Curious to see how the season will play out.

 

[cidhawkeye]

OMG man first practice tonight? Should have been in the cage since September, what kind of parent are you? Get ready for some feedback like that..... And then watch that Dads kid hit .100 and wonder why he doesn't get any pt because they spent all that money on lessons.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

OMG man first practice tonight? Should have been in the cage since September, what kind of parent are you? Get ready for some feedback like that..... And then watch that Dads kid hit .100 and wonder why he doesn't get any pt because they spent all that money on lessons.

I know it. Baseball has always been a huge part of my life, but my sons never seemed that interested, so I never pushed it. Last year was the first time we really played catch, and last year I started pitching to him with wiffle balls. We only just got him a real bat a couple of weeks ago, with me pitching baseballs to him.

It's just a YMCA league, so I'm hoping it's not too competitive. I just want him to have a good experience that's not too discouraging.

 

[hawkifann]

That is an interesting take. I mostly agree. His LL team definitely has the full spectrum of kids in terms of ability and/or athleticism and I like him making new friends or at least acquaintances all of the time. Being social and having a network of friends is important at every age, but especially with middle school around the corner.

My ideal scenario is when kids have the opportunity for both rec ball and more advanced play. My oldest has that. He's an above-average player in the rec league and enjoys playing with his friends and then he's a below-average player in the more competitive "travel-ish" ball. He gets to mix some success and confidence with getting pushed and learning the more complex aspects of the game. My middle son is a kid that is just happy to be on a rec team and that's as far as it'll ever go with him. Too early to tell on the youngest, but I think he's heading to be more like his biggest bro.

The reality is that virtually none of these kids will play pro ball. A couple might play some college ball. A few will play HS ball. Let them find their level. If they're into the more competitive game and they want to work on their skills away from team practices and games, then help them find that opportunity, whether it's a full-on travel team or something like we have with Challenge baseball down here or a USSSA team. If they're cool with rec ball, then let them play that.

The important thing....the only REALLY important thing....is that the kids are having fun, getting exercise, learning fundamentals and learning the larger life lessons around work, sportsmanship and being part of a team. Those are the things they'll take with them long after the glove goes into a box in the attic.

 

[SSG T]

Anything happening younger than the age of about 12-13 and isn't about skill development and confidence shouldn't happen. I've seen coaches that put winning first with kids as young as t-ball, those coaches shouldn't be allowed to participate. Guess what, many times those 10 year olds who have never touched a ball and bat, or shot a basketball or run any kind of route end up being among the best players later because they gave it a shot, albeit late, and fell in love with the sport. Many times the best players at 12 were the best because they matured the quickest, then hit puberty and leveled off.

Heck, look at Kelly Leak, he was the biggest kid on his LL baseball team then 3 years later was the smallest guy on his bicycle racing team.

 

[Run&Blade]

My boy plays high school now. Looking back he played in leagues where everybody batted and On some tournament teams where only the best played.

Some of both is good I think. You can sure tell which kids have a dad that plays catch with them and throws batting practice to them. Couple of hours a week is all it takes. Without it I don't think most kids can cut it regardless of when they hit puberty.

 

[hawkifann]

My boy plays high school now. Looking back he played in leagues where everybody batted and On some tournament teams where only the best played.

Some of both is good I think. You can sure tell which kids have a dad that plays catch with them and throws batting practice to them. Couple of hours a week is all it takes. Without it I don't think most kids can cut it regardless of when they hit puberty.

It's not just about the dad playing catch. I love baseball, I love coaching and I love working with kids. My oldest and I get out a lot. My middle has the opportunity to join us, but passes most of the time. The kid also has to want to do it and dad can't want it for him.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

I know it. Baseball has always been a huge part of my life, but my sons never seemed that interested, so I never pushed it. Last year was the first time we really played catch, and last year I started pitching to him with wiffle balls. We only just got him a real bat a couple of weeks ago, with me pitching baseballs to him.

It's just a YMCA league, so I'm hoping it's not too competitive. I just want him to have a good experience that's not too discouraging.

Too bad you never got to play catch with your father.

 

[belezabro]

Curious of those with kids who have participated on teams that don't bat a continuous lineup, and when that began. I have a 10-year old who is on a team kicking around whether to go to the format of traditional baseball where you only bat if you play rather than batting everyone while subbing players in and out freely at positions. I am sure there will be some who respond/think that if the kid isn't good enough he shouldn't play. I get all of that if your sole focus is to win now. And I suppose this could be the norm for majors level teams and maybe AAA teams that have tryouts and start anew every year. But this is at the cost of player development for future seasons of teams that stay intact for the most part on an annual basis. To me this is short-sighted, especially if you dealing with kids who are TEN. Just curious what people's experience might be and all of that.

Is the non-continuous batting being considered by your usssa team? What level is that team?

 

[2bagger22]

My boy plays high school now. Looking back he played in leagues where everybody batted and On some tournament teams where only the best played.

Some of both is good I think. You can sure tell which kids have a dad that plays catch with them and throws batting practice to them. Couple of hours a week is all it takes. Without it I don't think most kids can cut it regardless of when they hit puberty.

So much of the problem is the lack of practice. Few of the travel teams I played on growing up practiced on a weekly basis. Instead, we'd show up to the field, hit in the cage, throw, and take infield prior to the game. Hard to improve mechanical or footwork issues without practicing during the week.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

So much of the problem is the lack of practice. Few of the travel teams I played on growing up practiced on a weekly basis. Instead, we'd show up to the field, hit in the cage, throw, and take infield prior to the game. Hard to improve mechanical or footwork issues without practicing during the week.

But parents need to get their kids to tournaments every weekend so they can have social hour with other parents. Who cares if the kids are enjoying the game, being coached to field ground balls correctly, making contact at the plate, etc............

 

[Tenacious E]

Too bad you never got to play catch with your father.

Is the non-continuous batting being considered by your usssa team? What level is that team?

Being considered but who knows if it will be implemented. AA

 

[belezabro]

Our team is also AA. We made the decision when we started the team to bat everyone and everyone plays. No cuts or tryouts but I also wouldn't call us a travel team. It's a relief to establish such an approach before the season and just play. We do play to win and could be more competitive if a few kids played less but I feel good about our decision.

 

[Tenacious E]

Our team is also AA. We made the decision when we started the team to bat everyone and everyone plays. No cuts or tryouts but I also wouldn't call us a travel team. It's a relief to establish such an approach before the season and just play. We do play to win and could be more competitive if a few kids played less but I feel good about our decision.

I like your approach.

 

[Run&Blade]

Biggest problem is kids don't play on their own anymore. We use to play pickup games at night when I was a kid in the 70s 80s. We would get four or five to a side and play to one side of the outfield.

I think today's best kids are on average better today because of nonstop coaching. I think the average to below average kids are a lot worse today because they don't play on their own and they get forgotten.

Kind of interesting to think about all the emphasis on travel teams. Division I baseball teams only have. 11.7 scholarships to divide out.

If you google NCAA scholarship limits you will see how many parents are fooling themselves when they think their kid is going to get ahead by playing sports. Good grades will get you far far more.

 

[hawkifann]

Our team is also AA. We made the decision when we started the team to bat everyone and everyone plays. No cuts or tryouts but I also wouldn't call us a travel team. It's a relief to establish such an approach before the season and just play. We do play to win and could be more competitive if a few kids played less but I feel good about our decision.

The biggest challenge with no cuts is numbers. The more competitive add-on to our rec Little League is purely sign-up based. We haven't really done tryouts & cuts yet, but there does come a point when you have too many kids to work with and too many to effectively play when you do play a tournament. Our league has been able to make 14-16 kids work by rotating who dresses for tournaments (at the youth age, you rarely have all kids available to play anyway), but if that jacks up to 20-25, it gets tough...and you'd really have to be at or beyond 25 to effectively split into 2 teams.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Youth sports (ages 8-14) have gone down the toilet. The bat 10 thing may give you a better chance to win, but at the cost of a kid (which should never happen).

How about bringing a player onto your team (from another team) having that player assume the name of another player (that is injured) and having him play in tournaments so you increase your chance to win (at the expense of players that have practiced, sweat, paid their dues).

Ethics and Morals are gone these days.

 

[Tenacious E]

The biggest challenge with no cuts is numbers. The more competitive add-on to our rec Little League is purely sign-up based. We haven't really done tryouts & cuts yet, but there does come a point when you have too many kids to work with and too many to effectively play when you do play a tournament. Our league has been able to make 14-16 kids work by rotating who dresses for tournaments (at the youth age, you rarely have all kids available to play anyway), but if that jacks up to 20-25, it gets tough...and you'd really have to be at or beyond 25 to effectively split into 2 teams.

we have nowhere near those numbers. We have 12. Actually, I can't fathom having more than 12 on a team.

 

[Vroom_C14]

We have 12 as well on an "A" team. No reason to not play and bat all - yet we seem to falter on that statement the HC made at the beginning of the season. It creates animosity amongst the kids, defeats those that don't get a "fair" number of attempts, and teaches the kids what? That the HC son never sits out, gets to play "where ever" and you only win 50% of the time still.

 

[2bagger22]

But parents need to get their kids to tournaments every weekend so they can have social hour with other parents. Who cares if the kids are enjoying the game, being coached to field ground balls correctly, making contact at the plate, etc............

Exactly. Hockey parents love the social time so much they mix Bloodies before 8am tournament games. I'm all for a Bloody but when I have kids I'm not going to get lit before a squirts game.

Kind of interesting to think about all the emphasis on travel teams. Division I baseball teams only have. 11.7 scholarships to divide out.

If you google NCAA scholarship limits you will see how many parents are fooling themselves when they think their kid is going to get ahead by playing sports. Good grades will get you far far more.

It's laughable, isn't it? A friend told me a few weeks ago he would send his kid to the more affluent public school "because they're better at sports". The microscopic chance of his future children receiving a D1 scholarship is beyond reasoning.

 

[hawkifann]

we have nowhere near those numbers. We have 12. Actually, I can't fathom having more than 12 on a team.

Up to 16 actually works because we typically have the number of coaches necessary to break them up for drills and then often the end of practice is live-action, so we have enough for full D plus a couple hitters and baserunners. Plus, we'll often have a couple kids missing, so a 16 team roster gets you 12-15 at most practices. We typically dress 12 for tournaments, though, so there's definitely some rotation there.

 

[thewop]

Curious of those with kids who have participated on teams that don't bat a continuous lineup, and when that began. I have a 10-year old who is on a team kicking around whether to go to the format of traditional baseball where you only bat if you play rather than batting everyone while subbing players in and out freely at positions. I am sure there will be some who respond/think that if the kid isn't good enough he shouldn't play. I get all of that if your sole focus is to win now. And I suppose this could be the norm for majors level teams and maybe AAA teams that have tryouts and start anew every year. But this is at the cost of player development for future seasons of teams that stay intact for the most part on an annual basis. To me this is short-sighted, especially if you dealing with kids who are TEN. Just curious what people's experience might be and all of that.

The wussification of America began when they quit keeping score in tee ball. We used to have tee ball tournaments (in town ball) where only winners got trophies, and that was the motivation to win. we batted 12 I believe, with 10 on the field. It was awesome. 3 outs, switch. If a team batted around before 3 outs, switch. by the time we were 8, we had pitchers that could pitch, fielders that could field, and hitters that could hit. There were winners, there were losers, and it was beautiful.

By the time we were 12, the kids that couldn't cut it, for the most part, had quit, and they moved on to other very productive extra-curricular activities, art, music, dance, drama, swimming, soccer, etc. Now, we have kids hanging in there several years too long because they don't realize they're not good, they miss the window of opportunity to pick up a trombone or something else, there's less interest in that and they want to cut funding to fine arts programs. They get through high school being told they're amazing every step of the way, and they graduate from college and wonder why they don't make $100k right out of school.

I used to cry when my tee ball team lost. I probably only did that about 3 times, before I learned a valuable lesson about winning and losing before my 7th birthday. Kids these days are deprived of that perspective, and adults are vilified for introducing it.

So it's simple: Keep score in tee ball=stronger fine arts programs=stamping out the sense of entitlement so prevalent in today's society.