Youth baseball

[unIowa]

Our team is also AA. We made the decision when we started the team to bat everyone and everyone plays. No cuts or tryouts but I also wouldn't call us a travel team. It's a relief to establish such an approach before the season and just play. We do play to win and could be more competitive if a few kids played less but I feel good about our decision.

We are similar. We have 12 on our roster of U10 and everyone (who is there bc someone is seemingly always missing) hits (still play three outs, so we don't bat around like coach pitch, but everyone is in the order). Everyone also gets to play, if you are out the first inning you will be in the remainder of the game and unless you get hurt you will not be sitting out more than one inning per game. Funny thing is it seems that the coaches kids (mine included) are typically the ones that we sit the most, they also happen to be our better players.

We are half rec and then half USSSA games and, as I agreed to before, rec games can be awful. I am honestly frightened for some of the children safety on these other teams bc they have 1, maybe 2, decent players and it appears that none of the other kids want to be there and so far it seems that none of the coaches for the other teams want to be there either. I find myself coaching up kids on the other team during games more than the other teams coaches (who just seem to be sitting around). Hey I get they are volunteering their time (I do for Baseball, basketball, FB, soccer...someone has to do it) but like anything else in life if you are going to do it, even if volunteering, it doesn't take that much more effort to do a great job then it does to do a lazy job...for god sakes you are already there, now just be there mentally for the kids as well.

Anyway, we typically pitch our less developed/confident kids in rec league and our more developed kids in our USSSA games. It has worked pretty well so far and we are building our rotation as everyone seems to be improving. Next year we are planning on U10 games for USSA but moving up an age group in Rec and playing older kids bc, as stated before, it isn't fun to show up and smash the opposing team 15-0 all via walks with little to no chance to swing the bat.

Then you run into a rec team that has one pretty good player and the opposing coach decides it is ok to throw him 80+ pitches over 3 innings (I actually think one kid was close to hitting 100 pitches...it was sad and not fair to the kid pitching or the other kids on the team). Get a clicker and keep a count, when they get to 40 pitch yank them if they are struggling or let them get another batter or two but at 50 pitches they need to not be pitching anymore for 3-4 days.

Rant over.

 

[Tenacious E]

We are similar. We have 12 on our roster of U10 and everyone (who is there bc someone is seemingly always missing) hits (still play three outs, so we don't bat around like coach pitch, but everyone is in the order). Everyone also gets to play, if you are out the first inning you will be in the remainder of the game and unless you get hurt you will not be sitting out more than one inning per game. Funny thing is it seems that the coaches kids (mine included) are typically the ones that we sit the most, they also happen to be our better players.

We are half rec and then half USSSA games and, as I agreed to before, rec games can be awful. I am honestly frightened for some of the children safety on these other teams bc they have 1, maybe 2, decent players and it appears that none of the other kids want to be there and so far it seems that none of the coaches for the other teams want to be there either. I find myself coaching up kids on the other team during games more than the other teams coaches (who just seem to be sitting around). Hey I get they are volunteering their time (I do for Baseball, basketball, FB, soccer...someone has to do it) but like anything else in life if you are going to do it, even if volunteering, it doesn't take that much more effort to do a great job then it does to do a lazy job...for god sakes you are already there, now just be there mentally for the kids as well.

Anyway, we typically pitch our less developed/confident kids in rec league and our more developed kids in our USSSA games. It has worked pretty well so far and we are building our rotation as everyone seems to be improving. Next year we are planning on U10 games for USSA but moving up an age group in Rec and playing older kids bc, as stated before, it isn't fun to show up and smash the opposing team 15-0 all via walks with little to no chance to swing the bat.

Then you run into a rec team that has one pretty good player and the opposing coach decides it is ok to throw him 80+ pitches over 3 innings (I actually think one kid was close to hitting 100 pitches...it was sad and not fair to the kid pitching or the other kids on the team). Get a clicker and keep a count, when they get to 40 pitch yank them if they are struggling or let them get another batter or two but at 50 pitches they need to not be pitching anymore for 3-4 days.

Rant over.

I find your rec league to be strange. Little League has very stringent pitch count rules that I think go way too far. If you pitch more than 20 pitches you can't go the next day. It seems like that is taking the most fragile kid possible and making that the ceiling for all pitchers and puts most teams in a bind when you have games on consecutive days which happens more often than I care for. On the other hand, USSSA goes by innings pitched with no regard to number of pitches which I think is equally silly.

 

[unIowa]

This is so ridiculous I actually had to walk around for a minute and cool down for a sec before responding.

Sorry man that's the price of business of living in a community and having your kids interact with other kids. They get interested and back out again of things all the time. They deserve a chance to try something new and if they are a bit behind everybody has to just deal with. .

No one said that these kids shouldn't get a chance to try but, if we are being honest, some kids don't want to be playing out there. They are put on a team by their parents (a few weeks back a kids was randomly crying at 2nd base for the whole inning) and don't want to be there, are not engaged, and it is torture for the kid and every one around them.

Also there is the whole, its kind of a dangerous sport, thing to consider. I'm not saying kids should be cut from teams or shouldn't try to play but their parents need to at least get them to the point where they can defend themselves out there bc baseballs are hard and at 8,9,10 years old some kids are starting to hit and throw the ball pretty hard. Like another poster said, it doesn't take much, just play catch 15 minutes per day 3 days a week, do the same for hitting (off a tee or soft-toss) and the improvements speak for themselves over time.

 

[unIowa]

I find your rec league to be strange. Little League has very stringent pitch count rules that I think go way too far. If you pitch more than 20 pitches you can't go the next day. It seems like that is taking the most fragile kid possible and making that the ceiling for all pitchers and puts most teams in a bind when you have games on consecutive days which happens more often than I care for. On the other hand, USSSA goes by innings pitched with no regard to number of pitches which I think is equally silly.

Our rec league goes by inning and does USSSA (as you stated) but we keep to pitch counts on our team bc a kid could throw 50 pitches and get no one out and they wouldn't have technically pitched an inning. We have more of a safety/health long term approach then some of the clowns out there bc winning is secondary to development in our mind (although we want to win but are not going to do it the wrong way).

As per some of the rec teams I don't think most of the coaches know the rules of baseball let alone the rules of the league. Again, good for them volunteering but it doesn't take that much additional effort to do things the right way vs the "just show up" way.

 

[hawkifann]

I find your rec league to be strange. Little League has very stringent pitch count rules that I think go way too far. If you pitch more than 20 pitches you can't go the next day. It seems like that is taking the most fragile kid possible and making that the ceiling for all pitchers and puts most teams in a bind when you have games on consecutive days which happens more often than I care for. On the other hand, USSSA goes by innings pitched with no regard to number of pitches which I think is equally silly.

One of the challenges I've seen from playing both Little League and Nations and Challenge tournaments is that there's no crossover. Little League's rules at the low pitch counts do go a little far, though at the high end, if you've pitched 85 in a game, I think it's reasonable to not pitch for 5 days. But back to my point, LL uses the pitch counts and the tournaments are a mix. So, I could have a kid throw 35 pitches on Wednesday in LL, then come back with 85 on Saturday in LL, then throw 2 innings in each of two games during a Sunday tournament. It's not really LL's job to police all of this, but I think that's a step. Also, a lot of leagues will schedule accordingly. Our LL Majors division schedules a game for each team on M, T or W and then everyone plays on Saturday. So unless we get into rainout situations or the end-of-season tournament, they never play games on consecutive games, which really means that pitching 35 pitches is a freebie. One kid could throw 35 pitches in virtually every one of our regular season games.

 

[belezabro]

Getting off subject a bit...we played "up" in a USSSA 11U AAA tournament a few weeks ago. There were 11U Majors teams playing on adjacent fields. This was the first time I watched a majors team play. We have talented, well developed kids on our AA team...can pitch 65+ and move the ball around to desired spots, high baseball IQ, hit HRs, etc. But, these majors kids...like miniature pros.

 

[denmar81]

OT also but I find the pitch count that LL establishes a complete joke. They care so much for these kids that they establish a pitch count but allow them to throw a pitch that if not taught correctly can simply destroy the arm by the time their HS career is over. The curve, if not correctly taught, does damage every time it's thrown. If your child throws one and "twists" his wrist, have him stop now and get some lessons from someone that teaches it correctly. If your a coach and teach it the wrong way, stop. A correctly thrown curve is actually a safer pitch to throw than a fastball.

 

[Tenacious E]

Getting off subject a bit...we played "up" in a USSSA 11U AAA tournament a few weeks ago. There were 11U Majors teams playing on adjacent fields. This was the first time I watched a majors team play. We have talented, well developed kids on our AA team...can pitch 65+ and move the ball around to desired spots, high baseball IQ, hit HRs, etc. But, these majors kids...like miniature pros.

For the most part those categories are pretty spot on where team of a higher class will kick the crap out of most teams in a lower class. I also have a theory that a good A team has one good pitcher, a good AA team has two really good/great pitchers, AAA has three, and a majors team has four our more. We are a really good AA team and have two guys that could pitch against AAA and maybe a lower tier majors team and a third guy who inconsistent, hence we are not quite a AAA team. It is the pitching that really separates teams, imho.

 

[ANYCHawk]

No one said that these kids shouldn't get a chance to try but, if we are being honest, some kids don't want to be playing out there. They are put on a team by their parents (a few weeks back a kids was randomly crying at 2nd base for the whole inning) and don't want to be there, are not engaged, and it is torture for the kid and every one around them.

That's on the parents not the theory of rec leagues which is how OP framed it.

Also there is the whole, its kind of a dangerous sport, thing to consider. I'm not saying kids should be cut from teams or shouldn't try to play but their parents need to at least get them to the point where they can defend themselves out there bc baseballs are hard and at 8,9,10 years old some kids are starting to hit and throw the ball pretty hard. Like another poster said, it doesn't take much, just play catch 15 minutes per day 3 days a week, do the same for hitting (off a tee or soft-toss) and the improvements speak for themselves over time.

Not every family is that norman rockwell. And its not more dangerous than football, basketball or soccer when you are 8-12.

 

[SoDakHawk]

This is so ridiculous I actually had to walk around for a minute and cool down for a sec before responding.

Sorry man that's the price of business of living in a community and having your kids interact with other kids. They get interested and back out again of things all the time. They deserve a chance to try something new and if they are a bit behind everybody has to just deal with. My dad and I coached my younger brother through most of little league (he could never coach me I wouldn't listen on a field). We always had the three girls in the league in our team, we had the kid who had a disability where he could barely walk let alone run, we had the new kid in town each year. Everybody batted and everybody played every position (over the course of two games) except for pitcher and catcher. But, if you wanted to try to pitch or catch you we're given the opportunity.

So yeah while it has its difficulties see Kelly drop the ball at first base on many throws. Or watching Mike play shortstop since he could make more than a step either way. You know what by the end of the year Kelly knew the four ways to hold a glove and could catch the ball and Mike still had the biggest smile on the team. Heck our team even made the championship one of those year. Kelly came up to bat base loaded down one in the last inning. Everybody is sitting there in their head going "walk, walk, walk, please got let her get a walk." You know what she got a single and the next guy won the game. Felt bad for the walk off kid but he and her teams were way more interested in celebrating and being happy for Kelly than Joe Carter.

I'm sorry they are 8-12. It's about building confidence, getting better, making friends, learning patience -- such as dealing with those not as advance --, etc. All those skills are way more important than the score or making sure the best players are happy. "Dealing" with those weaker kids isn't a pain (well if it is you do it the wrong way, i.e. stick in right field, bat em last and don't really try to coach them to get better) it's one of the best parts of rec leagues.

Who knows maybe tomorrow you're kid will say "Dad I've gotten into drawing lately and I'd like to learn more." It's a new interest so you're not going to spend tons of bucks, but hey the Y has a class so you sign him up. You got a few advanced kids in the class who roll their eyes and parents make comments under the breath how the teacher is spending so much more time with your kids and that its really a frustrating cause their kid have been doing it since Kindergarten and yours just decided to pick it up. My guess is you'd be pretty pissed.

TL;DR

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Many towns/cities over the years have changed from the "let everyone play/learn the game" to a more serious effort to win by playing the best kids. I'm on the fence because when my kids were small, we coached to teach the game and get everyone involved. Today... my grandkids are on traveling teams where they play the best kids and rosters are limited to 10-11 kids. Unfortunately in this scenario, I see some families that simply don't have the financial resources that allow all kids to compete. I'm talking spending $$$ for winter clinics and camps, better equipment, and traveling distances where you might need a couple of nights in a motel/hotel that can run up to $500 for a weekend.

I know of some school districts where the high school coaches like the idea of "weeding out" kids before they reach the 7th grade. High school coaches know they only need 4-5 kids per grade to have a good program. Some smaller towns have a "traveling" team, while still having the traditional "little league" program. Youth sports have been overtaken by parents' desires to have lil Johnny be the star that parent wasn't. I see more of the same in the years ahead.

Now I likely didn't answer your question, and I apologize for my rant, but this trend isn't stopping anytime soon, imo.

No participation ribbons to speak of up in here, America....especially if you ain't got that cash to throw around.....

Good stuff, indeed.

 

[anon_8rcdnbko1jbe0]

For the most part those categories are pretty spot on where team of a higher class will kick the crap out of most teams in a lower class. I also have a theory that a good A team has one good pitcher, a good AA team has two really good/great pitchers, AAA has three, and a majors team has four our more. We are a really good AA team and have two guys that could pitch against AAA and maybe a lower tier majors team and a third guy who inconsistent, hence we are not quite a AAA team. It is the pitching that really separates teams, imho.

Pretty much agree but usually AA with a good pitcher can play with an AAA but it will come down to errors. Usually the AA is just not as smooth at defense and gives extra at bats. A killer. Now major - agree with above - mini major league. Top major teams can hit and drive the ball with two strikes against AAA and make fewer errors. I've seen teams with 5 and maybe 6 outstanding pitchers at 10 and 11u. Crazy. But they get the kids and families. Big $$

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

The wussification of America began when they quit keeping score in tee ball. (No it didn't. The blame for the wussification of America is also improperly categorized, but that's a discussion for people that don't vehemently choose their side of the fence with one foot firmly planted on top of dog sh**, and unwilling to move said foot because it could mean the possible degradation of their own opinion, or at the very least acknowledging and even agreeing with the opinions of people on the opposite side. No, no, we won't discuss such things today while the "grown-ups" are around..........)
We used to have tee ball tournaments (in town ball) where only winners got trophies (........Fantastic.), and that was the motivation to win. we batted 12 I believe, with 10 on the field. It was awesome. 3 outs, switch. If a team batted around before 3 outs, switch. by the time we were 8, we had pitchers that could pitch, fielders that could field, and hitters that could hit. There were winners, there were losers, and it was beautiful. (But were the players fairly compensated for their time and labor?)

By the time we were 12, the kids that couldn't cut it, for the most part, had quit, and they moved on to other very productive extra-curricular activities, art, music, dance, drama, swimming, soccer, etc. (You kept tabs, even....) Now, we have kids hanging in there several years too long because they don't realize they're not good (You're.......still keeping tabs. Not saying that's creepy, though. At least you can judge how good a kid is at a sport by the age of 12.), they miss the window of opportunity to pick up a trombone or something else (by the age of 12........), there's less interest in that and they want to cut funding to fine arts programs. (But where are the parents?.....) They get through high school being told they're amazing every step of the way (By you?....), and they graduate from college and wonder why they don't make $100k right out of school. (Still keeping tabs?........Okay now that is creepy.)

I used to cry when my tee ball team lost (Relevant....). I probably only did that about 3 times (About huh...so it could've been more?), before I learned a valuable lesson about winning and losing before my 7th birthday. (And then you stopped crying after your teams lost a game?) Kids these days are deprived of that perspective, and adults are vilified for introducing it. (You learned that just before your 7th birthday?)

So it's simple: Keep score in tee ball=stronger fine arts programs=stamping out the sense of entitlement so prevalent in today's society.

 

[Vroom_C14]

OT also but I find the pitch count that LL establishes a complete joke. They care so much for these kids that they establish a pitch count but allow them to throw a pitch that if not taught correctly can simply destroy the arm by the time their HS career is over. The curve, if not correctly taught, does damage every time it's thrown. If your child throws one and "twists" his wrist, have him stop now and get some lessons from someone that teaches it correctly. If your a coach and teach it the wrong way, stop. A correctly thrown curve is actually a safer pitch to throw than a fastball.

A curve (from what I know) should be thrown with your wrist already in position - which would be with arm at L your wrist is turned slightly forward, ball is visible to 1st base side if RH, throw with same arm speed as Fastball (middle finger on the inside horseshoe loop and thumb on the seam under are the pressure points) and you punch your index and middle knuckles through your target. This will usually create the desired spin of the seams to catch the air and do a 12-6 curve.

Every pitching coach I have worked\talked with said to NEVER snap your wrist down.