197 finalist Truax in the Portal

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I have not had any confirmation from Ira. And Bob is a known conspiracy theorist along the lines of Ironbird and Vodka. But you guys keep being you.

Look, I'm trying to have a reasonable conversation here about level playing fields in college wrestling over time.

There are a lot of unknowns that factor into the equation, if we're trying to evaluate it in terms of today's dollars.

• Cost of college in first 12 Gable years vs Cael years in today's dollars;
• Actual amount of overawards per year for Gable's first 12 years; and,
• Actual amount of PSU "dark money" minus Iowa's in Cael's first 12 years.

As these values may never be known, all the two sides can really do is engage in parochial BS (i.e., prime fodder for wrestling boards).

From what I understand, I only conclude a few things so far based on the information available to me:

• Reasonable PSU fans should not discount Gable's role in Iowa's rise to wrestling prominence.
• Synthesized extra grants-in-aid did give Iowa some advantage, especially over ISU, for in state talent, because bigger scholarship shares could be offered.
• Synthesized extra grants-in-aid did give Iowa some advantage nationally, because bigger scholarship shares could be offered to out of state talent using the difference from that actually awarded to in state talent.
• Reasonable Iowa fans should not discount Cael's role in PSU's rise to wrestling prominence.
• Any net positive difference in "dark money" between what PSU had available and used, when compared to other schools, would give PSU a recruiting advantage.

 

[WexfordWarrior]

Look, I'm trying to have a reasonable conversation here about level playing fields in college wrestling over time.

You do realize you are in the cesspool. right?

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Look, I'm trying to have a reasonable conversation here about level playing fields in college wrestling over time.

You do realize you are in the cesspool. right?

Sure, but this is GIA now! And nobody is trapped in a karmic vessel of their past.

I think my exchanges with @bnicolls and @cidhawkeye have been and are likely to remain civil.

 

[natchrlman]

Right. Very different body compositions. And, not everybody carries weight the same, loses weight the same, etc. For some guys they can cut 20 lbs and look huge and perform awesome, whereas somebody who "looks" smaller maybe struggles with an 8 lb cut and doesn't perform well.

Just don't think its out of the realm of possibility that he could do 197 for one year, a la Snyder as you mentioned. He'd look like Ben Darmstadt out there. But that length could create a lot of problems for guys.

we’re not going to have another Brody Grothus thread are we?? this kids still in HS!!

Ben’s first year in the football program won’t be spent cutting weight IF he’s serious about playing football they’ll have him hitting the weights and gaining muscle…….. spending a year cutting to 97 would delay the physical development he needs in BOTH sports and set him back imo

 

[bourbon n blues]

Just for reference AJ Ferrari's walk around weight is also 220-225.

When you're running test and deca you bloat up a little lol.

 

[Multi-Hawk]

we’re not going to have another Brody Grothus thread are we?? this kids still in HS!!

Ben’s first year in the football program won’t be spent cutting weight IF he’s serious about playing football they’ll have him hitting the weights and gaining muscle…….. spending a year cutting to 97 would delay the physical development he needs in BOTH sports and set him back imo

Correct. Not a chance he cuts to 97.

 

[sabula]

Correct. Not a chance he cuts to 97.

Don't know why anyone still keeps bringing it up and talking about it.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Loons are falling from the sky in Wisconsin

There have been reports of loons stranded on the ground after they fell from the sky.

www.fox9.com

Don't tell me this isn't a sign of Mesenbrink to PSU at 4PM central!!!

 

[bnicolls]

Sure, but this is GIA now! And nobody is trapped in a karmic vessel of their past.

I think my exchanges with @bnicolls and @cidhawkeye have been and are likely to remain civil.

98 is a good guy.

The Gable vs PSU is just way too long and exhausting. In short, the schollie issue didn't happen right away. Gable came in and changed training under "the" Coach K. And they won, and they kept winning when he became head man. Youare factually correct on all the scholly stuff, but Gable had backups that could have won anyway like Paul Glynn's Dad. And many others who were right with the starters.

What PSU has been doing is way way different. God love em, but the playing field is level.

And, this is not for 98, but the PSU meatheads who somehow think that Uncle Ira didn't tell me exactly what he and his boy Cael were doing, fine. Call me a liar. I consider it a badge of honor given who it's coming from.

PS I use the Ignore button on all of em, as it saves time.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, trolls.

 

[el dub]

Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, trolls.

You’re right. It’s also a way of life in some places, apparently.

 

[DuckBlunder]

The Dark money has been in play for years now and that allowed Carl to buy up the best recruits in the country ...so it was like buying an ALL STAR team and competing against the legally built team ....which may make for a great movie when the underdog team does win against the stacked odds but to try and justify it and then glorify the leader as a " better coach " just baffles me !! This is like watching when small market MLB teams compete against the Yankees.... you can win every now and then, but if they feel a need to upgrade they just spend more money and keep on going. Supposedly the field is level now but not because PSU quit their tactics...its supposedly level now because the rest of the teams can attempt to do the same stuff that PSU has been doing for over a decade now. Sadly , i think it will take a long time for the rest of the wrestling world to play catch up using these new NIL deals because they are still being regulated, although very loosely but its tough to beat the seasoned veteran at his own game and has a tried and proven method...and an unlimited budget and also a compliance department that hasn't watched the program closely for years now.

Full disclosure, I'm a long time PSU fan but I have no hate in my heart for you guys. I have heard the thing about PSU and dirty tactics. May I ask aside from the current win streak, what information are these allegations based on? Genuinely curious.

 

[dtripp26]

Don't know why anyone still keeps bringing it up and talking about it.

 

[hlstone]

If Truax is at 184 I struggle to see who beats him at big tens. The highest placing returning wrestlers are Isaiah Salazar, Brian Soldano, Abe Assad, and Layne Malczewski. Salazar might have a shot at Truax.

Soldano is a must watch for me. That kid lets it fly.🔥

 

[tigerguy_]

Spratley is all Okie state

^^^^^^^^^^this guy seems to be in the know ^^^^^^^

 

[moug]

And Bob is a known conspiracy theorist along the lines of Ironbird and Vodka. But you guys keep being you.

You’re an idiot

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I have most PSU trolls on ignore but some of their idiocy is hard to ignore completely. Is it just me, or are they reaching a new level of Neanderthal?

 

[snotknockerhawk]

I have most PSU trolls on ignore but some of their idiocy is hard to ignore completely. Is it just me, or are they reaching a new level of Neanderthal?

I hit the ignore on one of our own "fake" fans today....all you guys struggling with the f*** bunch need to use it!....makes things way more tolerable...

 

[PSUer1989]

Let's make no mistake here. Carl and Uncle Ira used this playbook, modified, to give dark money to PSU wrestlers up till NIL made it legal. There's no debate on that, as it's been admitted by the Unc.

Level playing field again though

You’re a clown. You state things as facts to elevate your sense of importance to a message board that prides itself on its cesspool moniker. You would have people believe that not only was Lubert aware of “cheating”, he openly told one of the benefactors of PSU’s main competitors. So yes, there is a debate here. It is called providing facts, documented facts, before you state something as beyond debate.

 

[bnicolls]

You’re a clown. You state things as facts to elevate your sense of importance to a message board that prides itself on its cesspool moniker. You would have people believe that not only was Lubert aware of “cheating”, he openly told one of the benefactors of PSU’s main competitors. So yes, there is a debate here. It is called providing facts, documented facts, before you state something as beyond debate.

If it makes you feel better to spew this BS, have at it. The truth is in the puddin.

See ya (engage ignore)

 

[GlenHawk]

You’re a clown. You state things as facts to elevate your sense of importance to a message board that prides itself on its cesspool moniker. You would have people believe that not only was Lubert aware of “cheating”, he openly told one of the benefactors of PSU’s main competitors. So yes, there is a debate here. It is called providing facts, documented facts, before you state something as beyond debate.

So you’re of the belief that all these top wrestlers were going to PSU for next to nothing before NIL? Lol there is only one clown in this conversation and it’s not bnicolls lol.

 

[SPOONER]

You’re a clown. You state things as facts to elevate your sense of importance to a message board that prides itself on its cesspool moniker. You would have people believe that not only was Lubert aware of “cheating”, he openly told one of the benefactors of PSU’s main competitors. So yes, there is a debate here. It is called providing facts, documented facts, before you state something as beyond debate.

@RossWB

 

[PSUer1989]

So you’re of the belief that all these top wrestlers were going to PSU for next to nothing before NIL? Lol there is only one clown in this conversation and it’s not bnicolls lol.

And yet, Iowa got so many recruits during Gables time. Yes, they go where they think they can be developed the best. Even Iowa fanboy Pyles can see it

 

[js8793]

So you’re of the belief that all these top wrestlers were going to PSU for next to nothing before NIL? Lol there is only one clown in this conversation and it’s not bnicolls lol.

This board use to brag about this happening at Iowa. It was an accepted fact. And it still does happen at Iowa btw.

When one team wins 30% of the individual titles over a decade, guys are going to line up to go there. And the guys who can afford to will take less. We see youth and high school wrestlers pay exorbitant amounts of money to gain access to the best competition and training. And now you think that behavior just stops in college where the stakes are highest? It's delusional.

If the pay offs are really true, why wouldn't the recruits who turned it down say so? Why doesn't Spencer tell everybody what Cael offered him? Why aren't coaches naming names?

 

[GlenHawk]

And yet, Iowa got so many recruits during Gables time. Yes, they go where they think they can be developed the best. Even Iowa fanboy Pyles can see it

View embedded media

You're showing us all what little you know about Iowa wrestling and the sport prior to 2011.

Iowa wrestling, and really any other D1 program, has never recruited the way PSU and Carl are recruiting. There was a thread on here from a couple of years ago that broke it down, and Gable averaged something like 0.75 top 10 recruits per class, even with the extra scholarship money in the 80s. Carl is averaging like 2-3 per class lol. Someone who cares enough can probably look it up to lay it out for you, but I doubt it changes your fanboy perspective.

Also, did you really bring a CP tweet to the conversation in some attempt to prove your wildly uneducated point? So much failure in one post lol.

 

[GlenHawk]

This board use to brag about this happening at Iowa. It was an accepted fact. And it still does happen at Iowa btw.

When one team wins 30% of the individual titles over a decade, guys are going to line up to go there. And the guys who can afford to will take less. We see youth and high school wrestlers pay exorbitant amounts of money to gain access to the best competition and training. And now you think that behavior just stops in college where the stakes are highest? It's delusional.

If the pay offs are really true, why wouldn't the recruits who turned it down say so? Why doesn't Spencer tell everybody what Cael offered him? Why aren't coaches naming names?

I've been on this board a hell of a lot longer than you, and I don't ever remember this being discussed let alone bragged about. Maybe you can provide a few examples to back up this claim?

 

[js8793]

I've been on this board a hell of a lot longer than you, and I don't ever remember this being discussed let alone bragged about. Maybe you can provide a few examples to back up this claim?

You're just playing stupid then.

Is it your contention that nobody ever accepts a lower offer at a school they'd rather be at?

 

[GlenHawk]

You're just playing stupid then.

Is it your contention that nobody ever accepts a lower offer at a school they'd rather be at?

Playing stupid? I read this board every single day and have for years. I am a reasonable poster who can admit when I am wrong. Not once can I remember Iowa fans bragging on this board about getting top recruits for less money, as you claim.

Again, if I am truly playing stupid, it shouldn't be too hard for you to find a couple of examples to prove me wrong.

 

[js8793]

Playing stupid? I read this board every single day and have for years. I am a reasonable poster who can admit when I am wrong. Not once can I remember Iowa fans bragging on this board about getting top recruits for less money, as you claim.

Again, if I am truly playing stupid, it shouldn't be too hard for you to find a couple of examples to prove me wrong.

So you think nobody ever accepted an offer at Iowa for less money than they were offered elsewhere?

Families spend thousands and thousands of dollars on training expenses growing up, but you can't possibly fathom they'd spend a little extra to wrestle at the program that produces the most champions? That's just stupid.

Gable used to talk about this. Tom Ryan just showed up at practice one day. He wanted to be a champ and Iowa was where champions were made, so he made the sacrifices and showed up. Iirc, @TarpHawk just showed up at Iowa to train to be an AA in freestyle. I doubt he was getting much money, but maybe he can speak for himself.

 

[GlenHawk]

So you think nobody ever accepted an offer at Iowa for less money than they were offered elsewhere?

No, I never said that. I said I have never read any posts from Iowa fans bragging on this board about getting top recruits for less money, as you claimed. You said it was an accepted fact, which again, I've never seen here.

Have kids taken less money to join the Iowa program? Absolutely. Has Iowa ever assembled 15-20 top 10 recruits on a roster with 10 available scholarships? Absolutely not. As I said, they didn't even do that in the 80s with the extra scholarship money.

 

[UndercoverHawk]

And yet, Iowa got so many recruits during Gables time. Yes, they go where they think they can be developed the best. Even Iowa fanboy Pyles can see it

View embedded media

“Iowa fanboy Pyles” 😂😂😂

Pyles is the biggest Cael nut hugger on the planet.

 

[js8793]

No, I never said that. I said I have never read any posts from Iowa fans bragging on this board about getting top recruits for less money, as you claimed. You said it was an accepted fact, which again, I've never seen here.

Have kids taken less money to join the Iowa program? Absolutely. Has Iowa ever assembled 15-20 top 10 recruits on a roster with 10 available scholarships? Absolutely not. As I said, they didn't even do that in the 80s with the extra scholarship money.

Well this might be the hang up. Neither has PSU.

 

[GlenHawk]

“Iowa fanboy Pyles” 😂😂😂

Pyles is the biggest Cael nut hugger on the planet.

CP is a big Spencer fan, so the insecure Kitties just assume he's all Iowa. They don't call him Penn State Pyles on FRL for nothing lol.

 

[GlenHawk]

Well this might be the hang up. Neither has PSU.

Oh dang, you got me on a technicality. It's not currently 15, but I can count ten top 10 guys on their 2022-23 roster right now. They also have 5 committed for 2024.

What are the most top 10 kids Iowa has ever had on a roster at the same time? Name literally any program that comes close to 10 guys on a roster. You can't.

 

[GlenHawk]

Hey @PSUer1989, since you only hit the laugh emoji and never actually responded to my post (gee, I wonder why lol), I figured I dig up the thread I was mentioning to show you how wrong you are.

Gable had sixteen top-10 recruits in 21 years of coaching. Carl has 10 on his current roster and 5 committed for 2024

Gable/Sanderson - Recruiting Comparison

I reviewed top 10 high school wreslter rankings going back to 1976. What I found was a little surprising. Gable recruited only 16 concensus top ten high school wrestlers in his 21 year coaching career. Cael will pass that total this year - so he's out recruiting the Iowa Gable dynasty nearly 3...

iowa.forums.rivals.com

 

[js8793]

Oh dang, you got me on a technicality. It's not currently 15, but I can count ten top 10 guys on their 2022-23 roster right now. They also have 5 committed for 2024.

What are the most top 10 kids Iowa has ever had on a roster at the same time? Name literally any program that comes close to 10 guys on a roster. You can't.

Name any program that wins like they do.

Do you acknowledge that families spend thousands to travel across the country to compete and train? If so, why do you think that behavior would stop?

I mean, there's literally a kid at Sebolt who travels hours from Wisconsin to train when his home state already has a nationally elite club. But a kid won't accept a few grand less per year to wrestle at PSU? It's absurd.

 

[GlenHawk]

Name any program that wins like they do.

Do you acknowledge that families spend thousands to travel across the country to compete and train? If so, why do you think that behavior would stop?

I mean, there's literally a kid at Sebolt who travels hours from Wisconsin to train when his home state already has a nationally elite club. But a kid won't accept a few grand less per year to wrestle at PSU? It's absurd.

Lol you can't be serious. Iowa and Okie State have both put together significantly more dominant stretches than we've seen from PSU, and they didn't need 10+ top 10 recruits to do it.

I am not saying what PSU is doing is wrong. Recruiting is a big piece of the puzzle and Carl is doing it better than anyone before him. Not all dynasties are built alike.

 

[bourbon n blues]

This board use to brag about this happening at Iowa. It was an accepted fact. And it still does happen at Iowa btw.

When one team wins 30% of the individual titles over a decade, guys are going to line up to go there. And the guys who can afford to will take less. We see youth and high school wrestlers pay exorbitant amounts of money to gain access to the best competition and training. And now you think that behavior just stops in college where the stakes are highest? It's delusional.

If the pay offs are really true, why wouldn't the recruits who turned it down say so? Why doesn't Spencer tell everybody what Cael offered him? Why aren't coaches naming names?

They don't get it. When my son was looking at colleges he applied to PSU but went to Lehigh, arguably a better engineering school.
He was no D1 wrestler but we could have afforded to send him to PSU with a little scholarship money. He was more academics and he studied hard and tested out of 25 credits of science and math.
Lehigh offered him a better financial aid package, so he went there instead of psu.
But if he was a D1 prospect and Sanderson wanted him he would've jumped at it. It would be close to him, he'd get great training, and the cost would've been similar to his academic route at Lehigh .

 

[12tdsaw]

everybody knows js is undercover pst

 

[js8793]

They don't get it. When my son was looking at colleges he applied to PSU but went to Lehigh, arguably a better engineering school.
He was no D1 wrestler but we could have afforded to send him to PSU with a little scholarship money. He was more academics and he studied hard and tested out of 25 credits of science and math.
Lehigh offered him a better financial aid package, so he went there instead of psu.
But if he was a D1 prospect and Sanderson wanted him he would've jumped at it. It would be close to him, he'd get great training, and the cost would've been similar to his academic route at Lehigh .

Hell I dropped a few grand on club training/camps in high school and I wasn't even good!