COVID-19 Thread

[SPOONER]

"the Dems" mean who? Got some fringers in there, got some mainstream types, too. I'm not a Democrat, but If the mainstream scares you crapless, seek medical help. Not even a lying narcissist with delusions of dictatorship scares me crapless, and it won't get worse than that.

Also, if ISU plays Greeen Bay, you still pull for the Hawkeyes or the Bears. I'm from Eastern Iowa. Where have you been?

Joe Biden is a fringer? (And before anyone loses their poop, I refuse to vote for Trump. We aren’t talking about him here.)

Republican Governor of Iowa just ordered a partial shut down 🤷‍♂️

Not that I have a high opinion of Reynolds, but targeted, more localized measures are far more sensical than a nationwide shut down.

 

[SPOONER]

Just to be clear on that incidence of myocarditis story...

In the original story, on Monday, Sebastianelli, Penn St's director of athletic medicine said he'd been told by someone, that about one third of B10 athletes who got covid had evidence of myocarditis on MRI scans.

Sebastianelli was unaware that the study about myocarditis had already been published, and the "one third of covid patients got myocarditis" statement was not accurate. It was actually about 15% of the cases that went on to show evidence of myocarditis.

15% is not one third, but it is still high enough, and the long term outlook on these myocarditis cases is not well known yet. So caution is still warranted.

Because of this uncertainty, B10 and Pac 12 have postponed the start of football.

Myocarditis is a common condition associated with respiratory illness. In otherwise healthy, young people it is a temporary condition that rarely leads to further, long term issues.

Hundreds of thousands or young athletes have spent the spring and summer playing sports. From wrestling to basketball to baseball and beyond. If this was a dangerous issue to be worried about it would have already reared it’s ugly head. And never mind the already well known, inherent risks associated with playing football.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

We are all going to die.

View embedded media

Pull the finger at your own risk.

 

[crablegs1]

Joe Biden is a fringer? (And before anyone loses their poop, I refuse to vote for Trump. We aren’t talking about him here.)





Not that I have a high opinion of Reynolds, but targeted, more localized measures are far more sensical than a nationwide shut down.

There has never been a nationwide shut down, nor have I seen one proposed. Please show me.

 

[rossel 33]

Myocarditis is a common condition associated with respiratory illness. In otherwise healthy, young people it is a temporary condition that rarely leads to further, long term issues.

Hundreds of thousands or young athletes have spent the spring and summer playing sports. From wrestling to basketball to baseball and beyond. If this was a dangerous issue to be worried about it would have already reared it’s ugly head. And never mind the already well known, inherent risks associated with playing football.

Your comments regarding myocarditis make it sound rather harmless, which is misleading.

While it can be relatively harmless in some, it can be serious in others, and sometimes can be fatal. The incidence of myocarditis following covid may be higher than with other types of viruses. Since covid is so new, there are many unknowns.

The Pac 12 recently published a guide for its schools, in planning for sports. They took into account advice from MD's, including experts in cardiology, infectious diseases and epidemiology. Here is what they said:

<<"We are concerned about health outcomes related to the virus. Among these, there is new and evolving information regarding potential serious cardiac side effects in elite athletes.">>

 

[IAChief32]

if Biden gets elected, will wearing of Depends be mandated?

Haha...it's all fun and games until you shart yourself.

 

[rossel 33]

Not that I have a high opinion of Reynolds, but targeted, more localized measures are far more sensical than a nationwide shut down.

Biden and the dem leadership have made it very clear they are willing to do another shut down.

Are you talking about a national shutdown?

We've never had a national shutdown, and I'm not aware of Biden or any other democrat politician advocating one. Source?

Shutdowns are recommended in specific areas that are having significant spikes in covid.

 

[SPOONER]

Your comments regarding myocarditis make it sound rather harmless, which is misleading.

That’s the whole discussion. The number of other medical professionals who think the P12 and others have overreacted and used poor studies and data to support their opinions. And again, I ask...given the hundreds of thousands of athletes that have been playing sports over the past several months: wrestling tournaments, basketball tournaments, preseason football workouts, the NBA, the NHL, MLB, etc. where are all the instances of myocarditis taking people down? Shouldn’t there be a myocarditis epidemic?

Are you talking about a national shutdown?

We've never had a national shutdown, and I'm not aware of Biden or any other democrat politician advocating one. Source?

Shutdowns are recommended in specific areas that are having significant spikes in covid.

Not sure how you missed this. It was all over the news two weeks ago.

Biden

 

[1032004]

Just to be clear on that incidence of myocarditis story...

In the original story, on Monday, Sebastianelli, Penn St's director of athletic medicine said he'd been told by someone, that about one third of B10 athletes who got covid had evidence of myocarditis on MRI scans.

Sebastianelli was unaware that the study about myocarditis had already been published, and the "one third of covid patients got myocarditis" statement was not accurate. It was actually about 15% of the cases that went on to show evidence of myocarditis.

15% is not one third, but it is still high enough, and the long term outlook on these myocarditis cases is not well known yet. So caution is still warranted.

Because of this uncertainty, B10 and Pac 12 have postponed the start of football.

Are you referring to the study by a doctor at tOSU referenced in this NYT article?

Doctors Enter College Football’s Politics, but Maybe Just for Show (Published 2020)

Universities have had mixed messages, competing agendas and a lack of transparency as they consider whether to hold college football in the fall, with billions of dollars at stake.

www.nytimes.com

The study doesn’t appear to be published yet.

 

[1032004]

That’s the whole discussion. The number of other medical professionals who think the P12 and others have overreacted and used poor studies and data to support their opinions. And again, I ask...given the hundreds of thousands of athletes that have been playing sports over the past several months: wrestling tournaments, basketball tournaments, preseason football workouts, the NBA, the NHL, MLB, etc. where are all the instances of myocarditis taking people down? Shouldn’t there be a myocarditis epidemic?

Reading between the lines a little, it sounds like what the tOSU doc referenced above is implying is that he is performing a test using an “expensive and sparingly used tool” that many others may not have access to.

However, I would think the pro leagues would, and I kinda agree with you, I think if the % was really that high we’d have heard of more instances of it by now. That said, there have been a few including some mentioned in the NYT article I wasn’t aware of.

Eduardo Rodriguez of the Red Sox has been mentioned several times, but apparently a Georgia State QB is out for the season with it as well. And a 27-year old former FSU basketball player playing in Serbia died of a heart attack which there is concern about whether his previous covid infection was a factor.

 

[dciowa]

But cases.

 

[thom67]

That’s the whole discussion. The number of other medical professionals who think the P12 and others have overreacted and used poor studies and data to support their opinions. And again, I ask...given the hundreds of thousands of athletes that have been playing sports over the past several months: wrestling tournaments, basketball tournaments, preseason football workouts, the NBA, the NHL, MLB, etc. where are all the instances of myocarditis taking people down? Shouldn’t there be a myocarditis epidemic?



Not sure how you missed this. It was all over the news two weeks ago.

Biden

How many of the thousands doing well are competing with Covid? If they have Covid, they are not competing.

 

[rossel 33]

That’s the whole discussion. The number of other medical professionals who think the P12 and others have overreacted and used poor studies and data to support their opinions. And again, I ask...given the hundreds of thousands of athletes that have been playing sports over the past several months: wrestling tournaments, basketball tournaments, preseason football workouts, the NBA, the NHL, MLB, etc. where are all the instances of myocarditis taking people down? Shouldn’t there be a myocarditis epidemic?



Not sure how you missed this. It was all over the news two weeks ago.

Biden

Looking for myocarditis incidence in the "hundreds of thousands of athletes that have been playing sports over the last few months" is the wrong idea.

You should be looking for myocarditis incidence in athletes who previously had covid.

There have been precious few (maybe zero in pros?) playing sports following being infected with covid. Huge difference. Until more is known about the incidence of myocarditis following covid, caution is warranted. I suspect any pro athlete that gets covid will probably get an MRI exam and have to sit out a while before playing again.

As far as Biden instituting a national shutdown, Biden said first and foremost that he would follow the advice of the scientific experts. Maybe you missed that part.

If any particular county or town has significant upticks, there would likely be local or regional shutdowns. Which businesses are affected would depend on the prevalence of disease and its trend. It is not a one size fits all. Reopenings would occur as conditions improved.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Looking for myocarditis incidence in the "hundreds of thousands of athletes that have been playing sports over the last few months" is the wrong idea.

You should be looking for myocarditis incidence in athletes who previously had covid.

There have been precious few (maybe zero in pros?) playing sports following being infected with covid. Huge difference. Until more is known about the incidence of myocarditis following covid, caution is warranted. I suspect any pro athlete that gets covid will probably get an MRI exam and have to sit out a while before playing again.

As far as Biden instituting a national shutdown, Biden said first and foremost that he would follow the advice of the scientific experts. Maybe you missed that part.

If any particular county or town has significant upticks, there would likely be local or regional shutdowns. Which businesses are affected would depend on the prevalence of disease and its trend. It is not a one size fits all. Reopenings would occur as conditions improved.

While your response seems reasonable on its face, a non-partisan person with real skin in the game would never write your post. Your reply is completely disconnected from other realities that exist because you’re focused solely on Covid. Covid is competing with other issues such as personal bankruptcies, domestic violence, disruption of medical advice for other lethal diseases, suicides. The list goes on and on. Fixating on Covid to the exclusion of all else makes all those other issues worse. Some of those other issues are worse than Covid long term. Shutdowns don’t work to reduce anything other than Covid and even then doesn’t solve Covid. Why don’t we try something more novel like isolating the at risks groups for a few weeks and letting everyone else live their lives with lessening impacts? What would be wrong with that?

 

[SPOONER]

Looking for myocarditis incidence in the "hundreds of thousands of athletes that have been playing sports over the last few months" is the wrong idea.

You should be looking for myocarditis incidence in athletes who previously had covid.

There have been precious few (maybe zero in pros?) playing sports following being infected with covid. Huge difference. Until more is known about the incidence of myocarditis following covid, caution is warranted. I suspect any pro athlete that gets covid will probably get an MRI exam and have to sit out a while before playing again.

As far as Biden instituting a national shutdown, Biden said first and foremost that he would follow the advice of the scientific experts. Maybe you missed that part.

If any particular county or town has significant upticks, there would likely be local or regional shutdowns. Which businesses are affected would depend on the prevalence of disease and its trend. It is not a one size fits all. Reopenings would occur as conditions improved.

I think you missed the correlation. Given the high number of athletes that have been playing sports for months we would have seen a large among of spread and in turn a large number of serious myocarditis cases. And again, note most myocarditis cases are mild and have no serious long term affects.

I’m particularly curious about this statement:

There have been precious few (maybe zero in pros?) playing sports following being infected with covid.

Where to begin? Athletes everywhere and at all levels are returning to to the field, court and ice after being infected. Not sure how you aren’t aware of this? And that’s just the ones who had it and knew it. Many did not.

And on Biden, I totally noticed the scientist part. Scientists should have a voice in, but shouldn’t be setting, public policy. And it is already painfully obvious covid doesn’t require a nationwide shutdown.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

While your response seems reasonable on its face, a non-partisan person with real skin in the game would never write your post. Your reply is completely disconnected from other realities that exist because you’re focused solely on Covid. Covid is competing with other issues such as personal bankruptcies, domestic violence, disruption of medical advice for other lethal diseases, suicides. The list goes on and on. Fixating on Covid to the exclusion of all else makes all those other issues worse. Some of those other issues are worse than Covid long term. Shutdowns don’t work to reduce anything other than Covid and even then doesn’t solve Covid. Why don’t we try something more novel like isolating the at risks groups for a few weeks and letting everyone else live their lives with lessening impacts? What would be wrong with that?

While your response seems reasonable on its face, it ignores the reality that Covid is the main cause of the INCREASE in these other issues such as personal bankruptcies, domestic violence, disruption of medical advice for other lethal disease, suicides, on and on. Without fixating on eliminating Covid you can't begin to bring down the INCREASE in the incidence of these other long standing issues within our society. Eliminate the cause for the extra stress (Covid) and you bring down the stress on these other situations.

No one is fixating on Covid to the exclusion of these other issues. Of course shutdowns don't solve Covid. Who suggests shutdowns solve Covid? And I don't know of anyone suggesting we need more shutdowns right now.

Another problem with your reasoned thinking is that not everyone will cooperate. You see how hard it has been to get people to do such a simple thing as wear masks to protect themselves and others. It has been politicized beyond common sense. It is a health issue, not a political statement. And at this stage we have not much else to protect ourselves and others until and IF a credible vaccine or vaccines are developed.

Even if some vaccines are developed that are effective, how many people will be willing to take them? Will any of the maskless mob be interested in getting innoculated? If it is so hard to get them to do a simple, easy thing like wearing a mask that protects themselves and their loved ones, why would you think they would cooperate on any other plan you would advocate.

And without full cooperation from everyone in society you can't "isolate the at risk groups for a few weeks and let everyone else live their lives with lessening impacts." Your suggestion is noble, but not realisticly practical and overly simplistic.

Seems like most every young person right now would ignore you and your ideas completely. Party on dude is the theme of the day. Some of the young people are still saying they believe the virus is a hoax.

My personal belief is that if the President and the Government had come out strongly and forcefully with a National Mask mandate and other measures right from the begining and we got good compliance from society we might have been able to avoid some shutdowns or maybe just isolated ones in hot spots like in NYC, And then again maybe not.

It may have been too late already to stop or even slow the virus down very much. Read an article about someone's experience at the January 7-10 2020 Consumer Electonics show in Las vegas. There were a lot of exhibitors from Wuhan present. People were commenting about all the coughing going on and how it seemed more like a hospital ward rather than an electronics show. A week later this person and his coworker got really, really sick with the worst "flu" he had ever had, Several months later when they could get tested, his friend came back as having had Covid-19 and his test result was not back yet.

Couple months ago read about a U.S. citizen who had lived in China for 10 years and recently moved back to St. Louis permantly had stated that rumors were going around China back in November of last year of a very serious flu going around. Sounds like Covid was on the loose earlier than we thought and was already spreading. We may not have been able to stop it, but we should have been able to slow it down more than we have.

 

[js8793]

While your response seems reasonable on its face, a non-partisan person with real skin in the game would never write your post. Your reply is completely disconnected from other realities that exist because you’re focused solely on Covid. Covid is competing with other issues such as personal bankruptcies, domestic violence, disruption of medical advice for other lethal diseases, suicides. The list goes on and on. Fixating on Covid to the exclusion of all else makes all those other issues worse. Some of those other issues are worse than Covid long term. Shutdowns don’t work to reduce anything other than Covid and even then doesn’t solve Covid. Why don’t we try something more novel like isolating the at risks groups for a few weeks and letting everyone else live their lives with lessening impacts? What would be wrong with that?

This is incredibly rich coming from you.

Covid is not "competing" with other issues. This isn't a market. Covid is exacerbating those issues. If I'm a hemophiliac and I cut myself in the kitchen, my hemophilia isn't competing with my cut, it's making it worse. I can bandage the wound, but if I don't also have measures to address the underlying condition, I will always be susceptible minor cuts becoming serious. You can't address the things you listed without also addressing covid.

To answer your last question, I understand why a lot of people want to believe this, but it's naive and unworkable. The reason this virus is so serious is because we don't actually know much about it and it's impact on people has been incredibly unpredictable. We can't simply "isolate at risk groups" because we don't yet know who is at risk or the long term damage the virus does.

You also keep talking about shut downs as if the entire country has been confined to their homes for the last 6 months. It's a ridiculous straw man/fantasy. What we're actually talking about are mask mandates to protect yourself and others while you're in public and to keep public spaces socially distanced. It's about as minimally invasive as one can imagine, and the people throwing fits sound like the toddlers they are. More significant shut downs in areas with spikes that threaten hospital capacity have occurred as needed (often instituted by republican governors by the way), but most of the country has been mostly open for a while now. My gym has been open since June for example.

 

[Pennstate1985]

CDC Said There Have Been More Suicides Than Death By COVID-19 | Armstrong Economics

The Director of the CDC has come out and bluntly stated that there have been far more deaths from suicides and drug overdoses than from COVID-19. The leftist

www.armstrongeconomics.com

The Director of the CDC said: “But there has been another cost that we’ve seen, particularly in high schools.” Mr. Redfield continued: “We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from COVID. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose that are above excess that we had as background than we are seeing the deaths from COVID. So this is why I keep coming back for the overall social being of individuals, is let’s all work together and find out how we can find common ground to get these schools open in a way that people are comfortable and their safe.”

 

[js8793]

CDC Said There Have Been More Suicides Than Death By COVID-19 | Armstrong Economics

The Director of the CDC has come out and bluntly stated that there have been far more deaths from suicides and drug overdoses than from COVID-19. The leftist

www.armstrongeconomics.com

The Director of the CDC said: “But there has been another cost that we’ve seen, particularly in high schools.” Mr. Redfield continued: “We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from COVID. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose that are above excess that we had as background than we are seeing the deaths from COVID. So this is why I keep coming back for the overall social being of individuals, is let’s all work together and find out how we can find common ground to get these schools open in a way that people are comfortable and their safe.”

There have been 190k suicides in this country?

 

[Pennstate1985]

There have been 190k suicides in this country?

You have better data than the CDC?? Bravo on you.

 

[js8793]

You have better data than the CDC?? Bravo on you.

Did a quick google search and it looks like there were an estimated 47k suicides in 2017 and 48k in 2018. Are you suggesting that there have been nearly 4x the usual annual total in the just the last few months?

Keep in mind that Redfield is a political appointee and the administration has reason to try to downplay covid. There have been several CDC officials who have leaked to the press that they think he's acting as a political pawn. I think a democrat administration would probably do the same thing.

When people say things like this that are frankly patently absurd from a factual basis, take a second to ask why they would say it.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

CDC Said There Have Been More Suicides Than Death By COVID-19 | Armstrong Economics

The Director of the CDC has come out and bluntly stated that there have been far more deaths from suicides and drug overdoses than from COVID-19. The leftist

www.armstrongeconomics.com

The Director of the CDC said: “But there has been another cost that we’ve seen, particularly in high schools.” Mr. Redfield continued: “We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from COVID. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose that are above excess that we had as background than we are seeing the deaths from COVID. So this is why I keep coming back for the overall social being of individuals, is let’s all work together and find out how we can find common ground to get these schools open in a way that people are comfortable and their safe.”

Following your CDC quote back to Armstong Economics where you quoted from, they do not appear to be a very neutral observer. They still call the virus a hoax and want the Attorney General to investigate Zucker, Soros, Fauci and others. About the only thing they didn't mention is when the Fauci's lynching is scheduled for......

Following their quote back further to Townhall, another conservative website we see the information from the CDC director in a different light.

The Headline reads......"CDC Director Compares Rate of Suicides to Covid-19 Deaths. The story quotes Dr. Redfield as saying in a Buck Institute webinar that suicides and drug overdoses have surpassed the death rate for Covid-19 among high school students. Notice the word "rate" in the article title and in context of his sentence.

The article goes on to show your quote with the context being Dr. Redfield talking about high school students. In other words more suicides and drug overdoses among HS students than Covid-19 deaths among HS students. Not a lot of HS students have died from Covid-19 yet. Schools closed down very early on in the Pandemic. A bit different than you and Armstrong seem to be suggesting.

There may be more deaths among HS students from suicide and drug overdoses than anything else in the world for them. They are most susceptible to it. More deaths from those 2 things for them than car accidents...maybe? Alcohol .....maybe? Myocarditis...maybe? The Flu....maybe? Other Hoaxes....maybe?

CDC Director Compares Rate of Suicides to COVID-19 Deaths

townhall.com

 

[js8793]

Following your CDC quote back to Armstong Economics where you quoted from, they do not appear to be a very neutral observer. They still call the virus a hoax and want the Attorney General to investigate Zucker, Soros, Fauci and others. About the only thing they didn't mention is when the Fauci's lynching is scheduled for......

Following their quote back further to Townhall, another conservative website we see the information from the CDC director in a different light.

The Headline reads......"CDC Director Compares Rate of Suicides to Covid-19 Deaths. The story quotes Dr. Redfield as saying in a Buck Institute webinar that suicides and drug overdoses have surpassed the death rate for Covid-19 among high school students. Notice the word "rate" in the article title and in context of his sentence.

The article goes on to show your quote with the context being Dr. Redfield talking about high school students. In other words more suicides and drug overdoses among HS students than Covid-19 deaths among HS students. Not a lot of HS students have died from Covid-19 yet. Schools closed down very early on in the Pandemic. A bit different than you and Armstrong seem to be suggesting.

There may be more deaths among HS students from suicide and drug overdoses than anything else in the world for them. They are most susceptible to it. More deaths from those 2 things for them than car accidents...maybe? Alcohol .....maybe? Myocarditis...maybe? The Flu....maybe? Other Hoaxes....maybe?

CDC Director Compares Rate of Suicides to COVID-19 Deaths

townhall.com

So in summary, the guy who came onto the thread and opened with "While your response seems reasonable on its face, a non-partisan person with real skin in the game would never write your post" spouted off about a data point that anybody who thought about it for 2 seconds would realize was impossible and that he got from a right wing conspiracy site.

 

[Pennstate1985]

So in summary, the guy who came onto the thread and opened with "While your response seems reasonable on its face, a non-partisan person with real skin in the game would never write your post" spouted off about a data point that anybody who thought about it for 2 seconds would realize was impossible and that he got from a right wing conspiracy site.

You’re misunderstanding the article and I’ll explain it in the morning when I have time.

 

[rossel 33]

You’re misunderstanding the article and I’ll explain it in the morning when I have time.

Kwoodhawk already laid things out nicely, but you, Spooner and some others portray the choice as all one or the other .... focus on covid and save some lives vs open things up and have a functioning economy.

It's not a simple binary choice. If covid runs rampant, as would happen if there were no mitigation measures, then businesses will suffer regardless of whether someone decrees they can stay open. Most people stay away from places that threaten to expose them to covid. People don't go on cruises, don't want to fly on packed planes, or sit in crowded movie theatres. Businesses suffer greatly and for longer, if the virus spreads.

Sweden, which was more open than its neighbors Finland and Norway, suffered far more covid cases and deaths.

covid cases/deaths:

Sweden 85,000/5835
Finland 8,300/366
Norway 11,400/265

Sweden also had their economy impacted despite the more open rules.

From NYT, July 15th:

<<
LONDON — Ever since the coronavirus emerged in Europe, Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered.

This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.

“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”>>

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale (Published 2020)

Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

 

[js8793]

You’re misunderstanding the article and I’ll explain it in the morning when I have time.

No, I understand the article just fine.

It's arguing that the cure is worse than the disease. It's using a quote from the CDC director (which is itself completely misleading and without any statistical citation) further out of context to claim that there have been more drug overdoses/suicides than covid deaths. This obviously, or at least it should be obvious, not true. In its most sympathetic reading the original quote, which this article misrepresents, only refers to high school students and says nothing about the overall response to the virus.

And in between the faulty quotes and conclusions are sprinkled phrases like "these Marxist media organizations from the New York Times, Washington Post, and CNN." Yes, these multi-million dollar corporations are "marxist." If you believe that, you're too far gone for reasonable debate. And I'm sure that the author's naming of Jeff Zucker and Klaus Schwab as "these people" who are engaged in a conspiracy to destroy the world has nothing to with them being Jewish.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

You’re misunderstanding the article and I’ll explain it in the morning when I have time.
[/QUOTe)

Don't bother explaining. Just wear a mask and stay safe.

It really is very simple and I don't understand why so many people fight it so hard. There is a new virus that we don't have any vaccine protection from going around. It is very easy to transmit and is not well understood. It can affect some people mildly and some have no synptoms at all. It has very unusual and dangerous complications for some and for others it can be fatal. Even those who are asymptomatic can still have tissue and organ damage taking place in their bodies without them even knowing it. Some seem to already have antibodies to it and may already be immune without ever having contracted the virus. It is very unpredictable and that makes it dangerous. You don't know how it will affect you or anyone you pass it on to.

So far the best practices to stay safe and protected is to wear a mask, wash hands, and be careful getting too close to strangers particularly while indoors. Currently approved drugs are being tested for efficacy and medical procedures are being refined as more is learned about how to treat this virus. We don't know yet if a vaccine that is to be developed will confer any protection for more than a couple months or hopefully longer. The experts are hping that anyvaccinedevelopedwill be at least 50% effective. Those odds are just a coin flip. Everything is still an evolving situation with this virus.

We know now it is not going away in the summer or that it will just disappear as if by miracle. We also know you can't stop it by drinking disinfectant. It doesn't appear to be going away by ignoring it or talking about how well we are handling it. However calling it a Hoax does seem to have helped it spread wider and possibly faster.

About the only thing we as individuals can do to slow the spread of this virus is wear a mask, wash hands, distance. And wait for science to come up with better solutions and answers. It is really not that hard. Not that much is being asked of you. Why so much anger and venom about these simple actions is confusing. Failing to take these simple actions only adds to its spread. Why is that so hard to understand and act upon?

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Covid-19 prevention tip: Just wear a Chicago Cubs jersey around at all times.........

because then you can never catch anything...................

 

[1032004]

Kwoodhawk already laid things out nicely, but you, Spooner and some others portray the choice as all one or the other .... focus on covid and save some lives vs open things up and have a functioning economy.

It's not a simple binary choice. If covid runs rampant, as would happen if there were no mitigation measures, then businesses will suffer regardless of whether someone decrees they can stay open. Most people stay away from places that threaten to expose them to covid. People don't go on cruises, don't want to fly on packed planes, or sit in crowded movie theatres. Businesses suffer greatly and for longer, if the virus spreads.

Sweden, which was more open than its neighbors Finland and Norway, suffered far more covid cases and deaths.

covid cases/deaths:

Sweden 85,000/5835
Finland 8,300/366
Norway 11,400/265

Sweden also had their economy impacted despite the more open rules.

From NYT, July 15th:

<<
LONDON — Ever since the coronavirus emerged in Europe, Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered.

This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.

“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”>>

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale (Published 2020)

Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

This. Not sure why people think if nothing closed there would have been little impact to the economy. Even if 50% of people don’t care about covid (which is a high number), you still have the other 50% who do so places like bars, movie theaters, shopping malls, gyms etc. were still going to see huge sales declines anyway. And more people probably would’ve died.

I think the only reasonable argument I see is that maybe schools should have reopened or reopened sooner, but you still have the same arguments you do now as far as teachers/staff that are at risk or kids bringing it home to family members so I see both sides of that argument.

I could more see colleges as staying open because at least the kids that live on campus aren’t going home to at risk family members every night. But I bet you still would’ve had schools or conferences like the Ivy League cancel stuff on their own.

 

[Nat Algren]

Following your CDC quote back to Armstong Economics where you quoted from, they do not appear to be a very neutral observer. They still call the virus a hoax and want the Attorney General to investigate Zucker, Soros, Fauci and others. About the only thing they didn't mention is when the Fauci's lynching is scheduled for......

Following their quote back further to Townhall, another conservative website we see the information from the CDC director in a different light.

The Headline reads......"CDC Director Compares Rate of Suicides to Covid-19 Deaths. The story quotes Dr. Redfield as saying in a Buck Institute webinar that suicides and drug overdoses have surpassed the death rate for Covid-19 among high school students. Notice the word "rate" in the article title and in context of his sentence.

The article goes on to show your quote with the context being Dr. Redfield talking about high school students. In other words more suicides and drug overdoses among HS students than Covid-19 deaths among HS students. Not a lot of HS students have died from Covid-19 yet. Schools closed down very early on in the Pandemic. A bit different than you and Armstrong seem to be suggesting.

There may be more deaths among HS students from suicide and drug overdoses than anything else in the world for them. They are most susceptible to it. More deaths from those 2 things for them than car accidents...maybe? Alcohol .....maybe? Myocarditis...maybe? The Flu....maybe? Other Hoaxes....maybe?

CDC Director Compares Rate of Suicides to COVID-19 Deaths

townhall.com

You are absolutely in bounds to cast a discerning eye upon Armstrong Econ. I only ask you do the same on the flip side so as not to be guilty of confirmation bias. That is, Fauci has written glowing and guffawing e-mails to Hillary in the past. Fauci and Birx have leadership positions on The Gates Foundation. Therefore, having conflicting biases.

The CDC this past week ratched down those inflated Covid deaths to 9.800 minus comorbidities. No doubt some played a role in the deaths with other ailments. Covid deaths are more like 54,000. In '18, flu deaths were 80K. So, in reality, this is just a normal flu season.

 

[rossel 33]

A little note of caution for my friends back in Iowa. Iowa has seen an uptick in covid recently. In the last week the 3 states with highest new covid cases per capita are #1 ND, # SD, #3 IA. After those 3 come southern states - AL, MO, TN, MS, OK and AR.

A big chunk of the increase in cases in Iowa are driven by outbreaks at the Univ of Iowa with 962 cases and ISU with 852 cases. There are only a handful of universities in the U.S. with bigger outbreaks - Alabama, UNC, SC, and Illinois St.

 

[dciowa]

A little note of caution for my friends back in Iowa. Iowa has seen an uptick in covid recently. In the last week the 3 states with highest new covid cases per capita are #1 ND, # SD, #3 IA. After those 3 come southern states - AL, MO, TN, MS, OK and AR.

A big chunk of the increase in cases in Iowa are driven by outbreaks at the Univ of Iowa with 962 cases and ISU with 852 cases. There are only a handful of universities in the U.S. with bigger outbreaks - Alabama, UNC, SC, and Illinois St.

Iowa month by month, year to year deaths chart. Shocking. Not.

https://idph.iowa.gov/health-statistics/data/preliminary-data

 

[rossel 33]

The CDC this past week ratched down those inflated Covid deaths to 9.800 minus comorbidities. No doubt some played a role in the deaths with other ailments. Covid deaths are more like 54,000. In '18, flu deaths were 80K. So, in reality, this is just a normal flu season.

Interesting ...and did you know that on 9/11, those 2900 who supposedly died in the World Trade buildings from a terrorist attack... didn't really die from that. See, some of them had hypertension, diabetes, asthma, atherosclerosis as well. Therefore only 7 people were actually killed by the terrorists.

 

[rossel 33]

You are absolutely in bounds to cast a discerning eye upon Armstrong Econ. I only ask you do the same on the flip side so as not to be guilty of confirmation bias. That is, Fauci has written glowing and guffawing e-mails to Hillary in the past. Fauci and Birx have leadership positions on The Gates Foundation. Therefore, having conflicting biases.

The CDC this past week ratched down those inflated Covid deaths to 9.800 minus comorbidities. No doubt some played a role in the deaths with other ailments. Covid deaths are more like 54,000. In '18, flu deaths were 80K. So, in reality, this is just a normal flu season.

You cannot find a more qualified and intelligent expert on pandemics than Fauci. Graduated first in his class at Cornell Medical College, and has been a leading researcher for decades, often referenced in medical journals. He has served the U.S. since joining the NIH in 1968.

Fauci has served as a high level advisor under 6 presidents, republican and democrat alike. He's helped guide U.S. and global efforts in dealing with HIV, SARS, Swine Flu, MERS, and Ebola. And now Covid 19. No one has ever questioned his advice.... until our current president.

As far as CDC "rached down" covid death numbers... that is mostly BS propagated by QAnon and a few fringe websites and social media, and retweeted by Trump. If interested in the details:

No, the CDC Has Not “Quietly Updated” COVID-19 Death Estimates

An online conspiracy theory retweeted by President Donald Trump misconstrued data regarding the number of people who have died from the coronavirus.

www.the-scientist.com

.


The U.S. has had ~ 190,000 deaths from covid, and most experts say that is likely an undercount. The Univ of Washington Health Institute model (used by the White House Corona task force) predicts the number could be over 400,000 by January, due to seasonality and declining of mask wearing, social distancing, etc.

U.S. coronavirus deaths projected to more than double to 410,000 by January

U.S. deaths from the coronavirus will reach 410,000 by the end of the year, more than double the current death toll, and deaths could soar to 3,000 per day in December, the University of Washington's health institute forecast on Friday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Nat Algren]

Interesting ...and did you know that on 9/11, those 2900 who supposedly died in the World Trade buildings from a terrorist attack... didn't really die from that. See, some of them had hypertension, diabetes, asthma, atherosclerosis as well. Therefore only 7 people were actually killed by the terrorists.

That's a fair comparison. 😡😡

 

[Nat Algren]

You cannot find a more qualified and intelligent expert on pandemics than Fauci. Graduated first in his class at Cornell Medical College, and has been a leading researcher for decades, often referenced in medical journals. He has served the U.S. since joining the NIH in 1968.

Fauci has served as a high level advisor under 6 presidents, republican and democrat alike. He's helped guide U.S. and global efforts in dealing with HIV, SARS, Swine Flu, MERS, and Ebola. And now Covid 19. No one has ever questioned his advice.... until our current president.

As far as CDC "rached down" covid death numbers... that is mostly BS propagated by QAnon and a few fringe websites and social media, and retweeted by Trump. If interested in the details:

No, the CDC Has Not “Quietly Updated” COVID-19 Death Estimates

An online conspiracy theory retweeted by President Donald Trump misconstrued data regarding the number of people who have died from the coronavirus.

www.the-scientist.com

.


The U.S. has had ~ 190,000 deaths from covid, and most experts say that is likely an undercount. The Univ of Washington Health Institute model (used by the White House Corona task force) predicts the number could be over 400,000 by January, due to seasonality and declining of mask wearing, social distancing, etc.

U.S. coronavirus deaths projected to more than double to 410,000 by January

U.S. deaths from the coronavirus will reach 410,000 by the end of the year, more than double the current death toll, and deaths could soar to 3,000 per day in December, the University of Washington's health institute forecast on Friday.

www.reuters.com

No, you cannot find a more corrupted expert and double talking tool than this bought and paid for shill of Bill Gates. What he did with AIDS was criminal. You don't survive in that swamp unless you know who to stab in the back and when.

 

[js8793]

You are absolutely in bounds to cast a discerning eye upon Armstrong Econ. I only ask you do the same on the flip side so as not to be guilty of confirmation bias. That is, Fauci has written glowing and guffawing e-mails to Hillary in the past. Fauci and Birx have leadership positions on The Gates Foundation. Therefore, having conflicting biases.

The CDC this past week ratched down those inflated Covid deaths to 9.800 minus comorbidities. No doubt some played a role in the deaths with other ailments. Covid deaths are more like 54,000. In '18, flu deaths were 80K. So, in reality, this is just a normal flu season.

This is what a mind that has been melted by the internet looks like.

First, the 80k deaths from flu in 2018 was an outlier, the highest by far in 4 decades, so using that as a "normal flu season" is incredibly dishonest. Normal years have half that number.

And even if your CDC thing was true (it's not), do you think the 80k flu deaths were without comorbidities? News flash: healthy people don't usually die from the flu. If you were to eliminate comorbidities from the flu number, it would be way smaller. Even by your own bad logic, covid is much more dangerous than flu.

 

[thom67]

No, you cannot find a more corrupted expert and double talking tool than this bought and paid for shill of Bill Gates. What he did with AIDS was criminal. You don't survive in that swamp unless you know who to stab in the back and when.

Is this a joke? Or more conspiracy theories from the fringe right wing? Do you believe that Obama is not a citizen?

 

[pablow]

You cannot find a more qualified and intelligent expert on pandemics than Fauci. Graduated first in his class at Cornell Medical College, and has been a leading researcher for decades, often referenced in medical journals. He has served the U.S. since joining the NIH in 1968.

Fauci has served as a high level advisor under 6 presidents, republican and democrat alike. He's helped guide U.S. and global efforts in dealing with HIV, SARS, Swine Flu, MERS, and Ebola. And now Covid 19. No one has ever questioned his advice.... until our current president.

As far as CDC "rached down" covid death numbers... that is mostly BS propagated by QAnon and a few fringe websites and social media, and retweeted by Trump. If interested in the details:

No, the CDC Has Not “Quietly Updated” COVID-19 Death Estimates

An online conspiracy theory retweeted by President Donald Trump misconstrued data regarding the number of people who have died from the coronavirus.

www.the-scientist.com

.


The U.S. has had ~ 190,000 deaths from covid, and most experts say that is likely an undercount. The Univ of Washington Health Institute model (used by the White House Corona task force) predicts the number could be over 400,000 by January, due to seasonality and declining of mask wearing, social distancing, etc.

U.S. coronavirus deaths projected to more than double to 410,000 by January

U.S. deaths from the coronavirus will reach 410,000 by the end of the year, more than double the current death toll, and deaths could soar to 3,000 per day in December, the University of Washington's health institute forecast on Friday.

www.reuters.com

 

[rossel 33]

Iowa month by month, year to year deaths chart. Shocking. Not.

https://idph.iowa.gov/health-statistics/data/preliminary-data

Even though it's not dramatic, that chart shows that monthly #deaths in Iowa from all causes have been higher in 2020 than in any of the previous 4 years.

Keep in mind that those data only through July.

Rising case numbers precede rising death numbers. August and September have seen spikes in cases in Iowa, so that doesn't look like good news.