SIAP- Hall to OTC?

[CatCoach]

Is this common knowledge. Not going back to Apple Valley for his senior year?

http://gazette.com/new-otc-wrestler-puts-hurt-on-junior-field/article/1553660#.VX3NHeMbWPQ.facebook

 

[Knight563]

Don't care as long as he ends up with the Hawks

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

I stand corrected.

 

[TarpHawk]

"Hall will return to the OTC after traveling to the senior world championships in Las Vegas in September to practice against the men. He will stay for at least another year, finishing high school online, while soaking up experience and technical know-how from the U.S. men."

Definitely news to me.

 

[Azchief32]

Makes sense...why not train with JB and the crew. Snyder did it and look at him. Sucks that he won't make history in Minnesota but he is a mature, big-picture, young man.

 

[AFHawk86]

Hawks fans won't mind getting another quality wrestler from the OTC

 

[sloehawk]

Makes sense...why not train with JB and the crew. Snyder did it and look at him. Sucks that he won't make history in Minnesota but he is a mature, big-picture, young man.

Isn't he on pace to be the 1st 6 time Champ in Minnesota? If that is indeed true, I thought there was a semi-recent interview that made it sound like that was a big deal to him and he was certainly going to be there to give it a shot? Forever and ever he would be the 1st to do it. That's a hell of lot more important than whatever "gain" he thinks he'll get training at the OTC, IMO (besides the fact he's already doing it somewhat, so...............).

And Snyder of course is really, really good, but there are a few others who went the OTC route and didn't fare anywhere near as well (and Mr. Gadson didn't appear to care much about where Synder went when he gave him "The Gadson" in the NCAA Finals). My personal opinion is it would be silly for him to try and NOT make History in Minnesota, similar to the post a week or so ago about the "rumor" that Mejia was going to leave California while on pace to be the 2nd 4 timer, which I think is a pretty big deal as well, particularly in that state, with that population, and 1 class. That's nothing to mess with.

Call me old fashioned I guess, but there are a hell of a lot more NCAA Champions that have went the traditional route than there are otherwise since the OTC has been around. If your goal is to be some Freestyle phenom, then that's probably the way to go, otherwise I wouldn't be an advocate personally. But as per normal, to each his own I guess.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

Snyder's decision is looking better all the time Sloe. What is he 19 and on our Senior World Team!? He's already a two-time world medalist. It'd be absolutely amazing if he came home with a world medal. I heard an interview where he said that he's learning towards an Olympic redshirt next year. Which helps the Hawks chances in March. Some guys place a lot more importance on freestyle than folk. I think our Senior and Junior Teams our looking pretty solid up and down the lineups and I'm pumped for the future of USA wrestling. Pretty amazing that a guy as good as David Taylor is only our 3rd best guy at 74kg and a 4-timer (Stieber) is only our 4th best guy at 65kg.

 

[sloehawk]

Snyder's decision is looking better all the time Sloe. What is he 19 and on our Senior World Team!? He's already a two-time world medalist. It'd be absolutely amazing if he came home with a world medal. I heard an interview where he said that he's learning towards an Olympic redshirt next year. Which helps the Hawks chances in March. Some guys place a lot more importance on freestyle than folk. I think our Senior and Junior Teams our looking pretty solid up and down the lineups and I'm pumped for the future of USA wrestling. Pretty amazing that a guy as good as David Taylor is only our 3rd best guy at 74kg and a 4-timer (Stieber) is only our 4th best guy at 65kg.

Sure it is, if you're talking Freestyle, which is what goes on at the OTC. Snyder is an outlier in my opinion. If his goal is International hardware, then great for him. Happy for him, absolutely. However, we're talking the benefits of the OTC for college athletes in Folkstyle. Snyder is just good and I'm confident he would have been whether he went to the OTC or not, and his results would be just as good. I don't even consider that my opinion FWIW.

Nathan Burak and Montell Marion were there also. They're quite good, but both were beat many times by people who never set foot in Colorado to wrestle.

 

[el dub]

I really fail to see the advantage in beating up on high school kids for a season even if it brings a sixth state title. Hall could win his sixth state title with little or no effort for an entire wrestling season. Or he could leave home and scrap with the big dogs for a year. The second option would seem to have the potential to lead to more growth in that time frame. It would also prepare him for stepping on the mat in college and competing his freshman year.

The kid has bigger fish to fry than a high school tournament. He's already proven himself in that arena.

 

[Azchief32]

Mark Hall isn't Burak or Montell...he is one of those outlier's you speak of

 

[SPOONER]

Sure it is, if you're talking Freestyle, which is what goes on at the OTC. Snyder is an outlier in my opinion. If his goal is International hardware, then great for him. Happy for him, absolutely. However, we're talking the benefits of the OTC for college athletes in Folkstyle. Snyder is just good and I'm confident he would have been whether he went to the OTC or not, and his results would be just as good. I don't even consider that my opinion FWIW.

Nathan Burak and Montell Marion were there also. They're quite good, but both were beat many times by people who never set foot in Colorado to wrestle.

Snyder made the NCAA finals at 197 just two years out of HS and you don't think his year at the OTC helped him at all? And Burak went from relative unknown as a recruit to the round of 12 in the same time period but the OTC wasn't helpful for him? I know you don't like freestyle but...c'mon, man.

 

[sloehawk]

Snyder made the NCAA finals at 197 just two years out of HS and you don't think his year at the OTC helped him at all? And Burak went from relative unknown as a recruit to the round of 12 in the same time period but the OTC wasn't helpful for him? I know you don't like freestyle but...c'mon, man.

I'm not saying it didn't "help him at all", I'm saying he could have done the same thing without it. Why? Because he's better at Wrestling than most people on the planet, and most likely would have been if he'd have skipped wrestling his Senior Year of High School and played only Soccer and video games. He didn't suck and magically transform in 1 year. He'd already won everything under the sun in the U.S. prior to going there. Now he's some juggernaut because he went there? C'mon man indeed.

How many years were the True Freshman that won NCAA Titles out of High School? Pretty sure it's less than two. How many of them ever sniffed a wrestling mat in Colorado prior to winning that Title? I'm gonna suggest it's real close to 0. So apparently whatever they were doing was better than going to the "almighty" OTC. Boring stuff like winning multiple State Titles in their every day run of the mill High School room.

Last time I saw Snyder on a Folkstyle mat I vividly remember him getting his ass tossed and drilled by a guy that I assume has never been on a mat at the OTC, and I'm pretty sure graduated from his High School and went straight to Iowa State. Maybe Gadson just didn't know how it was supposed to end.

The OTC isn't the "magic pill" for College Folkstyle Wrestlers and never has been. And that isn't changing anytime soon.

 

[SPOONER]

I'm not saying it didn't "help him at all", I'm saying he could have done the same thing without it. Why? Because he's better at Wrestling than most people on the planet, and most likely would have been if he'd have skipped wrestling his Senior Year of High School and played only Soccer and video games. He didn't suck and magically transform in 1 year. He'd already won everything under the sun in the U.S. prior to going there. Now he's some juggernaut because he went there? C'mon man indeed.

How many years were the True Freshman that won NCAA Titles out of High School? Pretty sure it's less than two. How many of them ever sniffed a wrestling mat in Colorado prior to winning that Title? I'm gonna suggest it's real close to 0. So apparently whatever they were doing was better than going to the "almighty" OTC. Boring stuff like winning multiple State Titles in their every day run of the mill High School room.

Last time I saw Snyder on a Folkstyle mat I vividly remember him getting his ass tossed and drilled by a guy that I assume has never been on a mat at the OTC, and I'm pretty sure graduated from his High School and went straight to Iowa State. Maybe Gadson just didn't know how it was supposed to end.

The OTC isn't the "magic pill" for College Folkstyle Wrestlers and never has been. And that isn't changing anytime soon.

I really don't see anyone claiming it is a magic pill. That seems like a red herring someone with an agenda inserted into the conversation. There have only been a handful of kids give up their senior year of HS to train in Colorado Springs before wrestling in college versus the number that wrestle as true freshman so such a comparison is woefully short on data.

Snyder spent an entire year at Colorado Springs focusing on wrestling and working out every day against older, more mature wrestlers than himself. If you think he would have been good enough to even make the NCAA finals as a true freshman had he stayed in HS I guess that's your prerogative. But I bet you he thinks differently and so does most everyone else who believes in the concept that "iron sharpens iron."

 

[so cal hawkfan]

I think I'm missing something here. I don't think any of the wrestlers who decide to go to the OTC for a year with the mindset of getting better at folk style for college. They are interested in the international styles and have medal aspirations. Sloe don't you think Snyder's international competition helped him reach the NCAA finals as a freshman? I can't imagine he'd be the same wrestler if you eliminate his two Junior World medals and all the training that went with that and replaced it with him smashing fat 220 lb high school kids from Maryland. He's absolutely better cause he spent a year scrapping with men like Dustin Kilgore, JD Bergman, Wynn Michalak etc. instead of with kids.

 

[sloehawk]

I think I'm missing something here. I don't think any of the wrestlers who decide to go to the OTC for a year with the mindset of getting better at folk style for college. They are interested in the international styles and have medal aspirations. Sloe don't you think Snyder's international competition helped him reach the NCAA finals as a freshman? I can't imagine he'd be the same wrestler if you eliminate his two Junior World medals and all the training that went with that and replaced it with him smashing fat 220 lb high school kids from Maryland. He's absolutely better cause he spent a year scrapping with men like Dustin Kilgore, JD Bergman, Wynn Michalak etc. instead of with kids.

My position is Kyle Snyder and other dominate kids like him would be just as good in College Folkstyle Wrestling whether the OTC existed or not. I couldn't care less what it does for his Freestyle career. It's his life, he can do what he wants with it.

People go to the OTC for a number of reasons, IMO, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest it doesn't do you much good if there are others around that are just plain better than you. You could train there for 5 years running and if you run into Brent Metcalf or Kyle Dake it isn't going to do you a damn bit of good.

The proof is there are thousands that have come before him that have been successful as underclassmen that have never stepped foot in the state of Colorado. People are making it sound like these High School kids should all pick up and leave their families to go train in Colorado and skip things like the first to be a 6 Time Champion in the History of a State. I think that's INSANE! Be a kid, hang out with your friends, wrestle with the locals. It's been proven time and time again that will work just fine in pursuit of NCAA Titles and dare I say Olympic Gold.

If the intent is International success, then by all means skip High School and go to the OTC. I'm not an advocate and will never be for children leaving their families and friends for a year or more as a teenager in pursuit of sports glory. Glory with no guarantee. There are wrestling camps up the ying-yang, and in Hall's case he wrestles for one of the powerhouse High Schools in the entire nation, 15 miles from the University of Minnesota.

 

[sloehawk]

I really don't see anyone claiming it is a magic pill. That seems like a red herring someone with an agenda inserted into the conversation. There have only been a handful of kids give up their senior year of HS to train in Colorado Springs before wrestling in college versus the number that wrestle as true freshman so such a comparison is woefully short on data.

Snyder spent an entire year at Colorado Springs focusing on wrestling and working out every day against older, more mature wrestlers than himself. If you think he would have been good enough to even make the NCAA finals as a true freshman had he stayed in HS I guess that's your prerogative. But I bet you he thinks differently and so does most everyone else who believes in the concept that "iron sharpens iron."

It's woefully short on data because it doesn't fit your argument.

Snyder didn't win a National Title as a Freshman by moving across the country and presumably doing nothing but wrestling, and others have done so without doing it. Your position is apparently that Synder wouldn't have been in the NCAA Finals without moving to Colorado. To that I say bullshit.

I guess Dustin Schlatter, Kyle Dake, Kendirck Maple, etc. found plenty of "iron" in there High School rooms and subsequent College rooms and managed just fine.

 

[el dub]

I'm guessing there is more than one way to reach a goal. What is right for one may not be for another. Hall will do just fine no matter the route, imo. That sixth state high school title seems to matter more to Sloe than Mark.

 

[TarpHawk]

I have read the debate in this thread (thank you, gentlemen), and I have made my decision: I support Hall's decision to go to the OTC. The sole issue is whether it's likely to make him a better wrestler than if he stayed at Apple Valley HS for another year. His aspirations have out-grown the goal of becoming a 6-time HS state champ; to stay and do that would be taking his foot off the gas, and I like the fact that he wants to step on the gas.

 

[yoces51]

I'm not sure if the author of this article has this right. I have no inside info at all but Mark has gone to the OTC and did his classes online for years during the school year. He has always came back to Apple Valley during the season. I'll be a little supprised if this year is different. This isn't to say I would disagree with his decision either way, Mark is surrounded by great people who will help him with this decision.

 

[TarpHawk]

Oh.

 

[andegre]

I'm not sure if the author of this article has this right. I have no inside info at all but Mark has gone to the OTC and did his classes online for years during the school year. He has always came back to Apple Valley during the season. I'll be a little supprised if this year is different. This isn't to say I would disagree with his decision either way, Mark is surrounded by great people who will help him with this decision.

Yep, I swear I read an article/interview, no more than 3 or 4 months ago stating Mark REALLY wants that 6th title.

 

[SPOONER]

It's woefully short on data because it doesn't fit your argument.

Snyder didn't win a National Title as a Freshman by moving across the country and presumably doing nothing but wrestling, and others have done so without doing it. Your position is apparently that Synder wouldn't have been in the NCAA Finals without moving to Colorado. To that I say bullshit.

I guess Dustin Schlatter, Kyle Dake, Kendirck Maple, etc. found plenty of "iron" in there High School rooms and subsequent College rooms and managed just fine.

No, it is woefully short because the number of guys to skip their senior year of HS, go to the Training Center then on to D-1 is probably about 3.

If you think Snyder didn't get any better by going there and training against top level US athletes then I guess that's your opinion. Pretty much everyone is going to disagree with you, however.

 

[Cal98]

It's woefully short on data because it doesn't fit your argument.

I guess Dustin Schlatter, Kyle Dake, Kendric Maple, etc. found plenty of "iron" in there High School rooms and subsequent College rooms and managed just fine.

One of these things is not like the other.

Of course there are plenty of guys who entered college as true freshman and excelled right away. But that doesn't minimize the gains Snyder may have made at the OTC training with the "big boys" year round. I think most would postulate that kind of environment would more likely breed success. Although the OTC is in Colorado. A strict regimen of medicinal greenery could have the opposite effect.

 

[lookleft goright]

I am not a big fan of going to the OTC either after high school for a year and then to college. I say go to college and find a place that helps you achieve your dreams. Iowa, OSU, PSU, tOSU, Nebby or even ASU now.

However, if you can do it instead of going to high school, that is even more worrisome. Be a kid for a while. You will be grown up for the rest of your life, enjoy the time of your youth. On the other hand, you almost have to be obsessed to win an Olympic medal or even make a team.

I know I would want my kid to stay in school and be with his friends. I think they can learn enough life lessons in school.

I know that by agreeing with you sloehawk, you are probably going to want to change your opinion. Sorry!!

 

[SPOONER]

However, if you can do it instead of going to high school, that is even more worrisome. Be a kid for a while. You will be grown up for the rest of your life, enjoy the time of your youth. On the other hand, you almost have to be obsessed to win an Olympic medal or even make a team.

I know I would want my kid to stay in school and be with his friends. I think they can learn enough life lessons in school.

I know that by agreeing with you sloehawk, you are probably going to want to change your opinion. Sorry!!

For the record, I agree with everything in this message. It is what I would want for my kids. I don't think that's really the debate but an interesting opinion, regardless.

 

[GG121AND2]

Kids in other sports, notably tennis and gymnastics, frequently leave home to achieve their goals (see Chow's Gymnastics in West Des Moines). Not judgin' - just sayin'.

 

[sloehawk]

Kids in other sports, notably tennis and gymnastics, frequently leave home to achieve their goals (see Chow's Gymnastics in West Des Moines). Not judgin' - just sayin'.

That is true, doesn't make it a good idea however.

Happens all the time in China and the old USSR, East Germany, etc. Good enough for them good enough for the U.S.A. I guess.........................

 

[sloehawk]

I'm guessing there is more than one way to reach a goal. What is right for one may not be for another. Hall will do just fine no matter the route, imo. That sixth state high school title seems to matter more to Sloe than Mark.

Just be a kid. Go to prom, hang out with your friends, wrestle everyday with your buddies if you must and go to tournaments every weekend if that's what trips your trigger, have a life. Hell, play some Baseball or Football (anything but Soccer).

I'm too old fashioned apparently, wanting children to stay at home until they head off for College (and we all know that isn't long enough for many................). And without question the results will vary on those that attend the OTC.

There is no GUARANTEE that going there will make them exponentially better, or better at all. None. But some folks have made up there mind that is true. It isn't. For every Kyle Snyder there are plenty of examples of those that seemingly didn't do anything for them. Either that or they really sucked to begin with (and most of those cats sans Burak, had scholarships in hand or multiple offers to wrestle DI before they went there).

I'm also guessing winning 6 State Titles in Minnesota would be a lot more meaningful to Mark Hall if he were actually a Minnesota kid.............................(and I think the jury is still out on what's going to happen there).

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

I have been reading all the posts on this thread and wasn't going to reply to anything but I can't take it any more. Any of you that don't understand that wrestling with the best guys in the country on a daily basis is far superior than wrestling with high school kids that you can pin or tech fall every time just don't get it. The training Mark will get at the OTC will put him light years ahead of where he would be just staying at Apple Valley. Iron does truly sharpen iron and nothing can compare to world class workout partners.

 

[lookleft goright]

I suppose that if Mark Hall is going to bored out of his mind in his senior year of high school and he just can't stand not being challenged, which he would not be on the wrestling mat, then going to OTC may be the best thing for him.

I can't help but think he is still a kid though and he needs to finish being a kid before he becomes a man. What is the big hurry?

Who can say what happened to Destin McCauley? Did going to the OTC have a negative impact on him because he was not ready to be there at that young of an age? I have no clue, but it does not seem like the kind of place a high school "kid" would thrive at.

I agree that, if he went to OTC, he would be ahead of where he be if he stayed at Apple Valley. I agree that iron sharpens iron and world class work out partners and world class people have a phenomenal effect on kids - hell adults for that matter. I am just not sure I would want it for my kid, not that he will be good enough to have to make this decision.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I have been reading all the posts on this thread and wasn't going to reply to anything but I can't take it any more. Any of you that don't understand that wrestling with the best guys in the country on a daily basis is far superior than wrestling with high school kids that you can pin or tech fall every time just don't get it. The training Mark will get at the OTC will put him light years ahead of where he would be just staying at Apple Valley. Iron does truly sharpen iron and nothing can compare to world class workout partners.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

Yeah, as I said, the distance from where he would have been to the top of the podium at D1 Nationals. Is that the distance you were thinking of also?

 

[theIowaHawk]

Works.

 

[moosemonster]

I just re-read the original Gazette article. It does not say anywhere that Hall will stay at the OTC and skip his senior season. It simply says he will return to train in Colorado before and after Worlds in Brazil while taking his Apple Valley classes online.

In a separate April article, he says he has been training there since he won state in February. And as of April, his top priority was winning that sixth state title. He can train at the OTC right up until wrestling season begins.

 

[el dub]

My latest guess is they Hall goes to the OTC, wins his sixth state title in Minnesota and then comes to Iowa City and earns a spot his true freshman year.

 

[jammenz]

Elwood says that Hall will be back at AV going for his 6th title. You can take his word to the bank.

 

[sloehawk]

I have been reading all the posts on this thread and wasn't going to reply to anything but I can't take it any more. Any of you that don't understand that wrestling with the best guys in the country on a daily basis is far superior than wrestling with high school kids that you can pin or tech fall every time just don't get it. The training Mark will get at the OTC will put him light years ahead of where he would be just staying at Apple Valley. Iron does truly sharpen iron and nothing can compare to world class workout partners.

Sounds like we need to greatly expand the OTC and get rid of High School wrestling all together. No reason to have the middle schoolers wasting time in the local room either. Would hate to have all the "can't miss" phenoms get bored after all.................

Especially since no one that has ever wrestled at their High School, then went straight to College and either redshirted or didn't, has had any success in College or afterwards. Too bored I suppose. If only they had chosen the OTC route, man, what could have been.

And I vividly remember OTC members Derek Garcia and Destin McCauley's epic NCAA Finals last year at 165, after McCauley stuck Alex Dieringer in the Semi's, and Garcia tech falled Isaac Jordan on the other side. That was some awesome wrestling....................

Yep, better hit the OTC or you'll fall by the wayside. LOL! Too late for Kemerer I suppose, who's gonna tell him not to bother showing up in Iowa City next year?

 

[wasdt21]

jammer I belive and appreciate your post. my explanation was he is ready to commit and not to minny,so he wanted to get outta there before all the fine folks of Minnesota turned on him and of course I got this from a very reliable insider..

 

[el dub]

My latest guess is they Hall goes to the OTC, wins his sixth state title in Minnesota and then comes to Iowa City and earns a spot his true freshman year.

Sounds like we need to greatly expand the OTC and get rid of High School wrestling all together. No reason to have the middle schoolers wasting time in the local room either. Would hate to have all the "can't miss" phenoms get bored after all.................

Especially since no one that has ever wrestled at their High School, then went straight to College and either redshirted or didn't, has had any success in College or afterwards. Too bored I suppose. If only they had chosen the OTC route, man, what could have been.

And I vividly remember OTC members Derek Garcia and Destin McCauley's epic NCAA Finals last year at 165, after McCauley stuck Alex Dieringer in the Semi's, and Garcia tech falled Isaac Jordan on the other side. That was some awesome wrestling....................

Yep, better hit the OTC or you'll fall by the wayside. LOL! Too late for Kemerer I suppose, who's gonna tell him not to bother showing up in Iowa City next year?

Wow…….