VOTE: Should Folkstyle be eliminated in the USA? After all there is no Folkstyle World Championship

[Franisdaman]

Some great coverage of the World Cup by the Des Moines Register (see link at end) and the author brings up an interesting discussion.

Are we as a country too stubborn to ditch folkstyle for freestyle? Should we? Why or why not? This kinda reminds me of the metric system debate; the USA was going to join the rest of the world and change to the metric system but we were too stubborn to ever do it.

As you can see from the coverage, the fans seem to love freestyle. The wrestlers also seem to love freestyle. And as you can see, "freestyle's alluring action won the day in Iowa City." Would wrestling's popularity in the USA increase if we made the switch?

The discussion:

Leistikow: American pride, freestyle's alluring action win the day in Iowa City

Chad Leistikow, cleistik@dmreg.com

Freestyle vs. folkstyle

From a young age, I loved watching folkstyle wrestling. I grew up around it; my hunch is many of you reading this can relate.

Now, covering that style is part of my profession today. I still very much enjoy it.

But, boy, an eight-hour day of immersion in the aspects of freestyle — and it’s easy to wonder why the college system in the U.S. hasn’t switched to freestyle.

I get it: nostalgia, tradition, maybe even stubbornness to change. But the U.S. remains the only country in the world that places an emphasis on folkstyle. (There's no such thing as a folkstyle world championship.)

The best part of freestyle: Action is always moving.

Wrestlers are repeatedly kept on their feet by the referee, summoned to the middle of the mat if there's no quick action after a takedown.

There is no riding time, no escapes — not even overtime. If you get pushed out of bounds, you surrender a point. If you’re well behind, you can rally in a hurry. Scoring can come quickly, as Kyle Dake showed against India — scoring a four-point throw and two back-exposure points for a 6-0 lead in the first nine seconds!

What I like most: It feels like someone’s always in frantic, comeback mode from their feet — instead of being helpless while being ridden on the bottom. And if the final score is 4-4 with two takedowns each, the last wrestler to score is the winner.

Anyway, the fans I spoke with who showed up as freestyle novices really seemed to enjoy it once they figured out the scoring.

And no doubt in my mind, wrestlers (if you polled them) would say they prefer it, too.

“I love freestyle wrestling,” Olympic champion Kyle Snyder said. “… A lot more fun for me.”

The most electric moment of the day, when Dake successively tossed Japan's Sohsuke Takatani behind his head and to the mat for two four-point throws? That would've netted zero points in folkstyle — and maybe a disqualification.

Here is that move:

LINK TO ENTIRE STORY: https://www.hawkcentral.com/story/s...rroughs-kyle-dake-folkstyle-debate/496445002/

 

[LaxHawk174]

I don't think so, many foreign countries also wrestle their own folkstyle of wrestling that is native to their country, in addition to freestyle and greco. Folkstyle doesn't seem to hinder us in freestyle, all it took was a rededicated effort on the part of USAW and the different college programs across the country to get to the top once again. Our age level teams, Cadets and Juniors are stronger than ever, and kids going up through the HS ranks want to be world champions as opposed to Fargo champs like the past. The RTCs popping up all over the country only help the cause. All of these things in conjunction have led to us becoming comparable to Russian and Iran on an international level. No need to fix something that isn't broken, many fans and wrestlers still love folkstyle.

Also my opinion is probably biased, as I love folkstye. I feel it allows for a greater variety of wrestlers to be successful, you can be good on top and bad on your feet and still be a dominant wrestler. I really enjoy the scrambling in folkstyle, though freestyle still has excellent scrambles. Whereas in Freestyle you essentially have to be top notch in neutral to have any kind of success, which is still exciting, but different.

I still really enjoy freestyle, is very exciting to watch and has come a long way since the ball grab days, and though I love folkstyle, I would probably still watch just as much wrestling if college and HS switched over to Freestyle. The main difference I don't like is that one 'fluke' move in FS can end the match in 10 seconds with a trap arm gut, and sometimes a TF isn't indicative of the skill level of the two wrestlers, whereas there is often no doubt who the better wrestler is in folkstyle when the match ends in TF.

 

[Hawkeye1991]

I'm in favor of the change. I still enjoy folkstyle but I find Freestyle to be more action packed and entertaining.

 

[Mustangdog]

Ask Spencer. He'll tell us what to do.

 

[fufighters]

Personally love both but would love to see some changes that would make us even better on world stage...I think most would agree incorporate the zone/step out rule and freestyle mat...

 

[Franisdaman]

Ask Spencer. He'll tell us what to do.

Love it!

Note that Kyle Snyder prefers freestyle, for what that is worth.

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

No.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

Freestyle is great at dictating the pace. The "shot clock" after another passivity warning is absolutely a great idea, as is the 1 point push out rule. However, I too think multiple exposures are far too overvalued. I prefer the controlled back points of folkstyle, and how that encourages the pin. The pin makes for a better climax. I also prefer the period structure and escape points in folkstyle.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

No.

 

[Grip220]

My opinion is keep both, for youth wrestlers folkstyle is better in my opinion with legal slams and big moves as Dake showed there is less chance of injury with the rules of folk. Plus I believe young athletes benefit from all the different positions in the top bottom game of folk.

Folkstyle needs some more new rules to make It closer to Freestyle maybe a more straight forward push out rule so wrestlers cannot play the edge the one in place leaves to much for interpretation. I for one think there should be a feet too back rule implemented at the college level with a little more restrictions. Also riding time needs to be changed and some of the stalling type of rides need to be eliminated. If there is no attempt to score put them back on there feet or something I’m not sure how to fix this exactly.

Freestyle should be changed a bit also to benefit a offensive wrestler the passivity rule needs to be altered and more aggressive. And again I’m sure exactly how but there should be more bonus points for “big” moves when some goes after it and hits a big time throw or toss it makes the sport more exciting as we all know and have very recently seen. I think a tech should be more like a 15 point advantage in Free also.

I think young wrestlers are a lot more exposed too freestyle nowadays, the training in private clubs,camps and during the off-season is so much greater then previous decades and the US will be making big leaps in the international scene moving forward.

As a former wrestler and now even a bigger fan I enjoy both styles the transition also keeps it fresh for young wrestlers and there is less chance of burnout. The sport is growing the girls and women’s wrestling is picking up steam. I would like to see more D1 wrestling teams and I believe this helps. USA wrestling is doing well I would just make small improvements and keep moving forward.

 

[Notsure75]

If Iowa was winning NCAA Championships this wouldn't even be a thread on the forum right now.

 

[Pennstate1985]

The answer is NO because we cannot control the freestyle rules like we can folkstyle. Do you really want someone in Italy passing down asinine new freestyle rules every year. Remember the ball grab? Why would we trust any organization (UWW) that came up with that stinker with anything else? Freestyle is more fun to watch today than it was, but it was only a few years ago that it was so unwatchable that the Olympics considered eliminating the oldest sport in the world from the Games.

 

[grapplefann]

Some great coverage of the World Cup by the Des Moines Register (see link at end) and the author brings up an interesting discussion.

Are we as a country too stubborn to ditch folkstyle for freestyle? Should we? Why or why not? This kinda reminds me of the metric system debate; the USA was going to join the rest of the world and change to the metric system but we were too stubborn to ever do it.

As you can see from the coverage, the fans seem to love freestyle. The wrestlers also seem to love freestyle. And as you can see, "freestyle's alluring action won the day in Iowa City." Would wrestling's popularity in the USA increase if we made the switch?

The discussion:

Leistikow: American pride, freestyle's alluring action win the day in Iowa City

Chad Leistikow, cleistik@dmreg.com

Freestyle vs. folkstyle

From a young age, I loved watching folkstyle wrestling. I grew up around it; my hunch is many of you reading this can relate.

Now, covering that style is part of my profession today. I still very much enjoy it.

But, boy, an eight-hour day of immersion in the aspects of freestyle — and it’s easy to wonder why the college system in the U.S. hasn’t switched to freestyle.

I get it: nostalgia, tradition, maybe even stubbornness to change. But the U.S. remains the only country in the world that places an emphasis on folkstyle. (There's no such thing as a folkstyle world championship.)

The best part of freestyle: Action is always moving.

Wrestlers are repeatedly kept on their feet by the referee, summoned to the middle of the mat if there's no quick action after a takedown.

There is no riding time, no escapes — not even overtime. If you get pushed out of bounds, you surrender a point. If you’re well behind, you can rally in a hurry. Scoring can come quickly, as Kyle Dake showed against India — scoring a four-point throw and two back-exposure points for a 6-0 lead in the first nine seconds!

What I like most: It feels like someone’s always in frantic, comeback mode from their feet — instead of being helpless while being ridden on the bottom. And if the final score is 4-4 with two takedowns each, the last wrestler to score is the winner.

Anyway, the fans I spoke with who showed up as freestyle novices really seemed to enjoy it once they figured out the scoring.

And no doubt in my mind, wrestlers (if you polled them) would say they prefer it, too.

“I love freestyle wrestling,” Olympic champion Kyle Snyder said. “… A lot more fun for me.”

The most electric moment of the day, when Dake successively tossed Japan's Sohsuke Takatani behind his head and to the mat for two four-point throws? That would've netted zero points in folkstyle — and maybe a disqualification.

Here is that move:

LINK TO ENTIRE STORY: https://www.hawkcentral.com/story/s...rroughs-kyle-dake-folkstyle-debate/496445002/

These are two different sports. Freestyle is about initiation and action. Folkstyle is about domination. Some people like only action. I also like drama. Some people like acrobatic thrills. I also like a good solid ride. I would miss the ride. Sometimes, I just don't get freestyle scoring either. Too arbitrary. The better guy can lose more easily in Freestyle than Folkstyle.
Although I can enjoy freestyle, I like folkstyle best. Let's not screw it up.

 

[rustynailhawk]

The answer is NO because we cannot control the freestyle rules like we can folkstyle. Do you really want someone in Italy passing down asinine new freestyle rules every year. Remember the ball grab? Why would we trust any organization (UWW) that came up with that stinker with anything else? Freestyle is more fun to watch today than it was, but it was only a few years ago that it was so unwatchable that the Olympics considered eliminating the oldest sport in the world from the Games.

Well if we did change it, it’s not like we would have to adopt all the rules that are terrible. We could have our own freestyle.

 

[93hawkeye]

Waaaaay too much opportunity for legal stalling in folkstyle. e.g. rides designed to gain that 1-minute point rather than expose the opponent's back.

 

[McCulloughd]

Love it!

Note that Kyle Snyder prefers freestyle, for what that is worth.

Kyle Snyder prefers freestyle? Well then lets change if Kyle Snyder prefers it. I was going to find out what Spencer thinks but hell if Kyle Snyder prefers it then so be it.

 

[dunkej01]

All the guys on the current team had success in folk (HS & college). Kyle has showed how a person can do both in season with success (hes a freak I get that but he didnt burn out is what Im driving at).

The young guys are coming on strong and they are kids finding success doing both without the full time attention to a single style.

I agree with the one poster above in that, having two styles or seasons, helps to not burn the young kids out. Keeping it fresh and new and some will have more success in a style than another style. This might keep them in the sport longer.

USA wrestling currently has the secret sauce and I think we are in for a great quad. Change for the sake of change seems misguided, but i love the open discussion!

 

[tigerguy_]

Yesterday was very entertaining, but it wasn’t too many years ago that freestyle was almost unwatchable. Anybody remember the ball grab where a blue ball could be considered a good thing?

The new rules have improved this style making it more fan friendly and hopefully folk style makes some of the aforementioned changes to improve too.

 

[Eph97]

This can be debated all day, but if you want USA wrestling to get better against the likes of Iran and Russia its best that US wrestlers are trained in freestyle from day 1 and compete under freestyle in college.

 

[McCulloughd]

This can be debated all day, but if you want USA wrestling to get better against the likes of Iran and Russia its best that US wrestlers are trained in freestyle from day 1 and compete under freestyle in college.

So what your saying is that Freestyle USA Wrestling is the way to go and to hell with the wrestling you grew up with? To hell with Iran and Russia. I'm not going to tell my nephew that concentrating on freestyle in 6th grade and beating those nasty Iranians and Russians is more important than beating the kid in a neighboring town.

 

[wyldhawk9]

If Iowa was winning NCAA Championships this wouldn't even be a thread on the forum right now.

I completely disagree. Team USA just won the freestyle world championships for the first time since 1995 (when Brands was in the team), they are the clear favorite to win the world cup which is being held in CHA...it is a natural topic of discussion at the moment. Additionally, the recent rules changes in freestyle have made it much more sspectator-friendly. All signs indicate that wrestling in our country is improving compared to the best teams in the world. I wish the Hawks we're winning NCAA titles too, but the resurgence of freestyle in the US is a big deal and the story of the day. I personally appreciate the discussion about how folks rules could be further adjusted to help US wrestlers be maximally competitive internationally.

 

[artradley]

The answer is NO because we cannot control the freestyle rules like we can folkstyle. Do you really want someone in Italy passing down asinine new freestyle rules every year. Remember the ball grab? Why would we trust any organization (UWW) that came up with that stinker with anything else? Freestyle is more fun to watch today than it was, but it was only a few years ago that it was so unwatchable that the Olympics considered eliminating the oldest sport in the world from the Games.

This. The rules are fine now, but at any given moment they could become horrible. We should use the rules that we like. Undoubtedly this hurts us a bit on the world stage, but that's a damn small stage. We have hundreds of thousands of wrestlers in this country. Do we really want to change the rules for the handful that compete at worlds?

 

[woodsiding]

Nobody wanted to copy the ball grab era of freestyle.

 

[bdcolt45er]

Both styles have their strengths and weaknesses. My preference is for folk. For me sometimes freestyle scoring feels a bit cheap. In freestyle I don't think there is much incentive to work for pins. It's just not worth the risk or the effort when you rack up exposures.
I do think folk needs to encourage more action. The top position is the most problematic to me. There's a lot of parallel riding that is never called. I would argue that at times the bottom guy gets dinged for stalling erroneously. When a guy has both legs in and gets you flat I feel like you're pretty limited on what you can do. So I would make an effort to make guys uncover the hips. You could add a warning and a count with stalling.

 

[artradley]

Both styles have their strengths and weaknesses. My preference is for folk. For me sometimes freestyle scoring feels a bit cheap. In freestyle I don't think there is much incentive to work for pins. It's just not worth the risk or the effort when you rack up exposures.
I do think folk needs to encourage more action. The top position is the most problematic to me. There's a lot of parallel riding that is never called. I would argue that at times the bottom guy gets dinged for stalling erroneously. When a guy has both legs in and gets you flat I feel like you're pretty limited on what you can do. So I would make an effort to make guys uncover the hips. You could add a warning and a count with stalling.

Agree with all of that.

 

[natchrlman]

I think they should start kids out on freestyle and wrestle it through high school and college....since the new rules took effect freestyle is a lot more exciting.... I hate all the stalling in folk style....playing the edge.... backing up....riding parallel.... freestyle forces the action.... and if our kids grow up on freestyle we would be more competitive internationally which is really the pinnacle of the sport

 

[jammenz]

So the World freestyle championship draws 6,388 at Carver when the Hawkeyes average more than that during the college season. At least when Council Bluffs WTT's drew only 200 people I didn't have to listen to freestyle crazies.

 

[cidhawkeye]

If I were Kyle Snyder I would like freestyle as well. Folk style wrestling guys 50 pounds heavier and having a guy like Coon ride or wrestling guys your own size and not getting ridden. Easy choice.

 

[24 so far]

This can be debated all day, but if you want USA wrestling to get better against the likes of Iran and Russia its best that US wrestlers are trained in freestyle from day 1 and compete under freestyle in college.

I'm far more concerned about beating the Oklahoma State's and Minnesota's in Folkstyle.

 

[texas twister]

I much prefer folkstyle. It could be tweeked to be much better with looser stalling calls and the pushout rule.

 

[Grip220]

This can be debated all day, but if you want USA wrestling to get better against the likes of Iran and Russia its best that US wrestlers are trained in freestyle from day 1 and compete under freestyle in college.

I dont agree our guys are competing at the highest levels currently and they all grew up with folk style. The small changes-in training have made the differences adapting Folk style to be successful in freestyle. Its working and I see our guys using there Ncaa experience really paying off. Its been done in the past its just now more top US guys are doing it

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

My opinion is keep both, for youth wrestlers folkstyle is better in my opinion with legal slams and big moves as Dake showed there is less chance of injury with the rules of folk. Plus I believe young athletes benefit from all the different positions in the top bottom game of folk.

Folkstyle needs some more new rules to make It closer to Freestyle maybe a more straight forward push out rule so wrestlers cannot play the edge the one in place leaves to much for interpretation. I for one think there should be a feet too back rule implemented at the college level with a little more restrictions. Also riding time needs to be changed and some of the stalling type of rides need to be eliminated. If there is no attempt to score put them back on there feet or something I’m not sure how to fix this exactly.

Freestyle should be changed a bit also to benefit a offensive wrestler the passivity rule needs to be altered and more aggressive. And again I’m sure exactly how but there should be more bonus points for “big” moves when some goes after it and hits a big time throw or toss it makes the sport more exciting as we all know and have very recently seen. I think a tech should be more like a 15 point advantage in Free also.

I think young wrestlers are a lot more exposed too freestyle nowadays, the training in private clubs,camps and during the off-season is so much greater then previous decades and the US will be making big leaps in the international scene moving forward.

As a former wrestler and now even a bigger fan I enjoy both styles the transition also keeps it fresh for young wrestlers and there is less chance of burnout. The sport is growing the girls and women’s wrestling is picking up steam. I would like to see more D1 wrestling teams and I believe this helps. USA wrestling is doing well I would just make small improvements and keep moving forward.

Folkstyle- you want more for feet to back than the 4 or 6 point moves that they already are?

Freestyle- more bonus for throws than the 4 or 5 points that already get you halfway to a tf?

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Well if we did change it, it’s not like we would have to adopt all the rules that are terrible. We could have our own freestyle.

That's called folkstyle.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

This can be debated all day, but if you want USA wrestling to get better against the likes of Iran and Russia its best that US wrestlers are trained in freestyle from day 1 and compete under freestyle in college.

That's not important to most wrestlers and fans in the US.

 

[Gjderaad]

Freestyle rules are good right now, but for most of my life they have been somewhere between questionable and terrible. I prefer folk style because you actually have to control someone and you have to wrestle neutral, top, and bottom. If you have a weakness in folk style it’s either exposed or you have to find a way to overcome it. I feel it’s a more complete form of wrestling. We’ve managed to be pretty competitive without letting UWW call all the shots.

 

[IamHawkeye]

If I were Kyle Snyder I would like freestyle as well. Folk style wrestling guys 50 pounds heavier and having a guy like Coon ride or wrestling guys your own size and not getting ridden. Easy choice.

So have another weight in NCAA, although hard to do with football dominating college sports.

 

[IamHawkeye]

Some great coverage of the World Cup by the Des Moines Register (see link at end) and the author brings up an interesting discussion.

Are we as a country too stubborn to ditch folkstyle for freestyle? Should we? Why or why not? This kinda reminds me of the metric system debate; the USA was going to join the rest of the world and change to the metric system but we were too stubborn to ever do it.

As you can see from the coverage, the fans seem to love freestyle. The wrestlers also seem to love freestyle. And as you can see, "freestyle's alluring action won the day in Iowa City." Would wrestling's popularity in the USA increase if we made the switch?

The discussion:

Leistikow: American pride, freestyle's alluring action win the day in Iowa City

Chad Leistikow, cleistik@dmreg.com

Freestyle vs. folkstyle

From a young age, I loved watching folkstyle wrestling. I grew up around it; my hunch is many of you reading this can relate.

Now, covering that style is part of my profession today. I still very much enjoy it.

But, boy, an eight-hour day of immersion in the aspects of freestyle — and it’s easy to wonder why the college system in the U.S. hasn’t switched to freestyle.

I get it: nostalgia, tradition, maybe even stubbornness to change. But the U.S. remains the only country in the world that places an emphasis on folkstyle. (There's no such thing as a folkstyle world championship.)

The best part of freestyle: Action is always moving.

Wrestlers are repeatedly kept on their feet by the referee, summoned to the middle of the mat if there's no quick action after a takedown.

There is no riding time, no escapes — not even overtime. If you get pushed out of bounds, you surrender a point. If you’re well behind, you can rally in a hurry. Scoring can come quickly, as Kyle Dake showed against India — scoring a four-point throw and two back-exposure points for a 6-0 lead in the first nine seconds!

What I like most: It feels like someone’s always in frantic, comeback mode from their feet — instead of being helpless while being ridden on the bottom. And if the final score is 4-4 with two takedowns each, the last wrestler to score is the winner.

Anyway, the fans I spoke with who showed up as freestyle novices really seemed to enjoy it once they figured out the scoring.

And no doubt in my mind, wrestlers (if you polled them) would say they prefer it, too.

“I love freestyle wrestling,” Olympic champion Kyle Snyder said. “… A lot more fun for me.”

The most electric moment of the day, when Dake successively tossed Japan's Sohsuke Takatani behind his head and to the mat for two four-point throws? That would've netted zero points in folkstyle — and maybe a disqualification.

Here is that move:

LINK TO ENTIRE STORY: https://www.hawkcentral.com/story/s...rroughs-kyle-dake-folkstyle-debate/496445002/

That move looks dangerous. There was one move yesterday( US vs Japan), and I don't remember which match, that had me gasping in fear for the wrestler. Of course, it turned out all right, and I am certainly not any expert in wrestling styles(cue here sarcasm I'm sure), but I don't remember seeing something that scary in college matches. And sure, we need more refs giving points.

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

Just as freestyle changed rules to make it more exciting, I think folkstyle could change some rules to improve the crossover to freestyle (although our current crop of talent seems to be doing fine). I love the passivity/activity clock. It doesn’t leave the second stalling call in the hands of the official to award a point. Either the guy scores or not. I also like the push out point. I wouldn’t want to change everything though. For instance, freestyle doesn’t seem to allow the guy on top time to grind for a pin as much as folkstyle. I’d miss that. I’m just a fan who loves the Hawks and enjoys college wrestling, but I’ve thoroughly enjoyed watching this World Cup as well. I had never really given freestyle a close look except when former Hawkeyes were competing or the Olympics aired a match or two. This has been pretty fun!

 

[Grip220]

Folkstyle- you want more for feet to back than the 4 or 6 point moves that they already are?

Freestyle- more bonus for throws than the 4 or 5 points that already get you halfway to a tf?

Are you Spooner? That’s not what I said or meant what I was referring too is the 5 point feet too back as in freestyle not traditional back points, just for big moves like a big headlock or lat drop where the opponent leaves his feet and exposer happens but not necessarily ends up with “back Points”. A perfect example is what Dake did this morning with his chest wrap arch. I know this would change folk considerably I’m just looking for more big moves and less stalling. Bring the hips too the party kind of stuff I also know this would make the sport more dangerous that is why I said at the college level..

And as far as more points for throws freestyle that was in conjunction with more points then 10 needed for the tech. Now that I had to explain myself why don’t you tell me how you would improve things I know my ideas are not perfect maybe yours are..

 

[Grip220]

So have another weight in NCAA, although hard to do with football dominating college sports.

There should be a 220lb class added imo guys are getting bigger and there is a resurgence of bigger guys that stay with Wrestling.