VOTE: Should Folkstyle be eliminated in the USA? After all there is no Folkstyle World Championship

[SansSouci]

Hell no. Folk is where it's at for me. Our clubs work freestyle all summer. Freestyle is just watered down wrestling. It's made great wrestlers out of wrestlers that can't wrestle all the aspects of real, folkstyle, wrestling, but have quickness. It's a different sport.

I love freestyle, but I couldn't imagine life without folkstyle.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Are you Spooner? That’s not what I said or meant what I was referring too is the 5 point feet too back as in freestyle not traditional back points, just for big moves like a big headlock or lat drop where the opponent leaves his feet and exposer happens but not necessarily ends up with “back Points”. A perfect example is what Dake did this morning with his chest wrap arch. I know this would change folk considerably I’m just looking for more big moves and less stalling. Bring the hips too the party kind of stuff I also know this would make the sport more dangerous that is why I said at the college level..

And as far as more points for throws freestyle that was in conjunction with more points then 10 needed for the tech. Now that I had to explain myself why don’t you tell me how you would improve things I know my ideas are not perfect maybe yours are..

Awarding as many points for feet to back and not holding them for a count as you get for holding them for a count... I like things as they are now.

 

[Inthecircle]

Just as freestyle changed rules to make it more exciting, I think folkstyle could change some rules to improve the crossover to freestyle (although our current crop of talent seems to be doing fine). I love the passivity/activity clock. It doesn’t leave the second stalling call in the hands of the official to award a point. Either the guy scores or not. I also like the push out point. I wouldn’t want to change everything though. For instance, freestyle doesn’t seem to allow the guy on top time to grind for a pin as much as folkstyle. I’d miss that. I’m just a fan who loves the Hawks and enjoys college wrestling, but I’ve thoroughly enjoyed watching this World Cup as well. I had never really given freestyle a close look except when former Hawkeyes were competing or the Olympics aired a match or two. This has been pretty fun!

Great Post! I like both styles as well. I took a friend who has had Hawkeye season tickets for quite some time. This weekend was his first world freestyle event. He absolutely loved it and said he will definitely attend more often. He just simply loved the action and the fact that if you even look away for a second you can miss something big.
Two Folkstyle rule changes to consider. The push out should be one. At what age do you implement this! This rule would force a wrestler to really work on positioning and development of a good stance. Perhaps after one minute of riding time you have earned a point, then go back to your feet, if you have earned your point, on your next takedown you have 20 seconds to turn your opponent or it’s back to your feet?

 

[TailgateTom]

I might be in the minority for my opinion on this, but if we did away with folkstyle I would probably lose interest in wrestling. Freestyle seems to be too subjective and inconsistent.

 

[harf]

Freestyle gets rid of a lot of the issues that people have with Folkstyle. Not enough action? Shot clock. Guy continuously running to the edge to avoid getting scored on? Push out point.

Folkstyle for the most part is becoming score early and hold on for two plus periods instead of encouraging wrestling and attacking through all three periods.

Before the rules changes, Freestyle was terrible, but in both their current states, Freestyle is much better at rewarding the aggressive wrestler and Folkstyle allows guys to be much more conservative.

 

[TailgateTom]

Freestyle gets rid of a lot of the issues that people have with Folkstyle. Not enough action? Shot clock. Guy continuously running to the edge to avoid getting scored on? Push out point.

Folkstyle for the most part is becoming score early and hold on for two plus periods instead of encouraging wrestling and attacking through all three periods.

Before the rules changes, Freestyle was terrible, but in both their current states, Freestyle is much better at rewarding the aggressive wrestler and Folkstyle allows guys to be much more conservative.

Honest question...how do you explain the Gilman match yesterday?

 

[Ohio_Hawk]

Honest question...how do you explain the Gilman match yesterday?

Exactly. Freestyle can be a very boring competition if both wrestlers just hang onto each others' necks.

I like many things about folkstyle, some of these which have been nicely elaborated:

1) I think three periods makes for some great comeback possibilities. I love the drama of choice (up, down, neutral) as it plays into wrestler strengths for period 2 and 3 strategies.

2) I also really like the "escape point." It is a skill--power and speed--that ought to be rewarded. (BUT...there ought to be more clearly defined and enforced rules about stalling on top! Some have suggested a 30-second limit for getting a turn, otherwise both wrestlers go back to their feet. Would need some refinements, but it's a good conversation starting point.)

3) I like Folkstyle scoring, where a strong opponent can strategize (and risk!)giving up points for a chance at takedowns. It makes for competitive pressure on both wrestlers. On the other side, one good gut wrench can end a Freestyle match too quickly as the dominant wrestler just spins his opponent over 5 consecutive times. Not what I call a full match. Folkstyle allows more of a chance at coming back from an early mistake.

In short, I don't think Folkstyle is "broken." Like all great sporting contests, it can always use some improvements. (Name the sport where there aren't continuous needs/desires for rules changes and I will show you a virtually dead sport!)

 

[jvclark]

If Iowa was winning NCAA Championships this wouldn't even be a thread on the forum right now.

Huh?? This has nothing to do with Iowa wrestling.

First of all, I would bet just about anything that if we switched to freestyle tomorrow, PSU would be beating us worse than they are now. Secondly they only reason this a topic right now is because of how well received the World Cup was yesterday(although it should a relevant discussion independent of this past weekend)

Come on

 

[jvclark]

This. The rules are fine now, but at any given moment they could become horrible. We should use the rules that we like. Undoubtedly this hurts us a bit on the world stage, but that's a damn small stage. We have hundreds of thousands of wrestlers in this country. Do we really want to change the rules for the handful that compete at worlds?

Your question begs the thought that we don't have the same rules for college and high school already. Granted they are similar but not the same.

With that said, I don't think they rule changes would be that big of a deal. But technique and coaching would be.

To your point, if freestyle(as it stands) is really only an issue with the elite wrestlers, so, how many lower level coaches(grade school to high school) have little or even NO freestyle experience? I think the number would surprise even me and I'm he one bringing it up. Every coach at these levels wrestled folkstyle during their careers, where a significantly smaller percentage wrestled freestyle and an even smaller number excelled at it.

With that said, I myself never wrestled freestyle in high school as I was too busy playing baseball. And early in adulthood I got bored watching freestyle, partially because of the jacked up rules. But I have watched a fair amount over the past two years and I really love it.

I would be in favor of this change(as both folkstyle and freestyle rules stand today), but only partially because it would help us(the USA) compete internationally, but mostly because it is so fun to watch(and I think to compete in as well based on what I see and hear)

 

[Crossface22.0]

I don't understand this thread? What evidence is there that folkstyle hurts our freestyle results on the international stage?

 

[artradley]

I don't understand this thread? What evidence is there that folkstyle hurts our freestyle results on the international stage?

I think it's impossible for it not to hurt. The skill sets are significantly different, so a guy who spends most of his wrestling career emphasizing the acquisition of folkstyle skills is at a big disadvantage to somebody who has spent their life training for freestyle. It's not like college vs high school, where the differences are relatively minor.

And that's before you even consider the amount of talent that chooses to not even pursue freestyle, such as Suriano.

 

[HawkeyeDenny]

But have the coaches ever undressed in FolkStyle..?? lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/22/sports/olympics/rio-games-final-day-roundup.html

 

[jvclark]

I don't understand this thread? What evidence is there that folkstyle hurts our freestyle results on the international stage?

Like empirical evidence derived from years of studies?

Of course none, but if one competing group competes in sport 1 for most of their careers and are then asked to compete in sport 2 vs the rest of world(that only competes in sport 2), it would at least be fair to say that the "sport 2" group would have more experience, right?

But if you need some non scientific evidence, how about the fact that the US won their first world team title last year since the Brands brothers were still competing

 

[Crossface22.0]

I think it's impossible for it not to hurt. The skill sets are significantly different, so a guy who spends most of his wrestling career emphasizing the acquisition of folkstyle skills is at a big disadvantage to somebody who has spent their life training for freestyle. It's not like college vs high school, where the differences are relatively minor.

And that's before you even consider the amount of talent that chooses to not even pursue freestyle, such as Suriano.

If the skill sets are significantly different, what's the explanation for athletes coming off the college season and consistently winning world medals immediately (i.e. Gilman, Cox, Snyder, Burroughs, Green, etc...)? Perhaps it's the RTC model and not the actual style the guys are focusing on? Not sure but it's a fun conversation to have.

 

[Crossface22.0]

Like empirical evidence derived from years of studies?

Of course none, but if one competing group competes in sport 1 for most of their careers and are then asked to compete in sport 2 vs the rest of world(that only competes in sport 2), it would at least be fair to say that the "sport 2" group would have more experience, right?

But if you need some non scientific evidence, how about the fact that the US won their first world team title last year since the Brands brothers were still competing

I'm not sure this is true. The USA has plenty of guys that have recently come off college seasons and immediately won world medals. I don't think it's the style, I think it's the RTC model, change in freestyle rules, and pure talent more than anything.

Also, in the inverse direction there are plenty of examples of athletes having early success after college, then fading as they "focus" on training freestyle (i.e Metcalf and/or Herbert). Fun conversation though!

 

[jammenz]

The folkstyle Rutgers-Princeton dual meet drew almost 3x as many fans as the WTT's at Carver. Case closed.

 

[jvclark]

The folkstyle Rutgers-Princeton dual meet drew almost 3x as many fans as the WTT's at Carver. Case closed.

I see what you are trying to say, but just don't agree with it. Apples and oranges.

Now if you were to ask the question: "would there have been more people watch Rutgers-Princeton outdoors in a football field wrestling folkstyle or freestyle?" That would have been relevant, not that we know that answer

 

[24 so far]

I see what you are trying to say, but just don't agree with it. Apples and oranges.

Now if you were to ask the question: "would there have been more people watch Rutgers-Princeton outdoors in a football field wrestling folkstyle or freestyle?" That would have been relevant, not that we know that answer

What more do you need other than a lifetime of evidence that the American fans hands down prefer Folkstyle?

When Carver is 1/2 full and the wrestlers rave about the crowd, that tells you all you need to know about how well Freestyle events are attended in the U.S.A.

I watched 3 of the World Cup matches and thought it was fine, but actually attending I have very little interest in any type of Freestyle. The people that claim to understand the rules don't even understand it, and then add International Judges to the mix and you'll get all kinds of crazy shit happening. Weird rulings happen in Folkstyle too, but not at near the pace of Freestyle.

To each his own, but it's a no-brainer which style I will prefer all the way to the grave.

 

[jvclark]

What more do you need other than a lifetime of evidence that the American fans hands down prefer Folkstyle?

When Carver is 1/2 full and the wrestlers rave about the crowd, that tells you all you need to know about how well Freestyle events are attended in the U.S.A.

I watched 3 of the World Cup matches and thought it was fine, but actually attending I have very little interest in any type of Freestyle. The people that claim to understand the rules don't even understand it, and then add International Judges to the mix and you'll get all kinds of crazy shit happening. Weird rulings happen in Folkstyle too, but not at near the pace of Freestyle.

To each his own, but it's a no-brainer which style I will prefer all the way to the grave.

23. I love folkstyle. And would be perfectly fine watching it the rest of my life. Been playing devils advocate most of this thread.

Will continue to do so here. Regarding officiating, don't we regularly question both rules, interpretations of rules as well as ref's piss poor decisions in this board all the time? And that's With folkstyle, The sport we all claim to know so well. Officiating will always be an issue, but true, we Americans know folkstyle rules better than freestyle. But that would change in a very short period of time

Regarding a half full Carver, we only averaged about 60% full for our regular season Hawkeye FOLKSTYLE schedule this year. I have a feeling if the NCAA adopted freestyle as its sport, we would still average about the same. People would still want to see the Hawks wrestle, not matter the style

But as you said, to each is own. There are nuances to both styles that I love. No doubt. But the freestyle is growing on me quickly.

 

[purescurve]

Is there any evidence out there that Free style is safer than Folk? I'm talking specifically back and knee injuries.

 

[Franisdaman]

its been a really interesting discussion and it appears folkstyle is going no where.

stubborn b@$t@rds!!!

 

[grapplefann]

its been a really interesting discussion and it appears folkstyle is going no where.

stubborn b@$t@rds!!!

No, it's staying put where it belongs.
Stubborn b@$t@rds!!!

 

[24 so far]

its been a really interesting discussion and it appears folkstyle is going no where.

stubborn b@$t@rds!!!

You also have to remember that a good portion of "the World" is a dump in many forms. Why we would want to emulate anything they do is beyond me.