I think they absolutely could contend on a regular basis with a team made up primarily of top 15 recruits. But it looks like we either don’t want to pay for their services with full rides or they’re not good fits culturally. (I don’t hear that term come out of most other camps much.)
#2 recruiting class in the nation..
- Thread starter DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs
- Start date
No offense but Bo Nickal making a statement on a podcast doesn't validate anything as to what teams have been playing with.
If you know anything about Nickals' background, his parents are doing ok financially, he didn't need a full ride.
Even then, deserve and/or earn are night and day different from need. Most parents with money don’t just say, “Nah, we don’t want money, give it to someone else…”
I think Bo wasn’t on a full ride.
I also think Bo is currently reaping the financial rewards for not being a full ride undergrad guy as an overpaid member of the NLWC.
I also think I could possibly be wrong.
There you go. All my bases are covered.
I also think Bo is currently reaping the financial rewards for not being a full ride undergrad guy as an overpaid member of the NLWC.
I also think I could possibly be wrong.
There you go. All my bases are covered.
Bo is not alone. Ed Ruth stated he was told he could 'earn' an 80% scholy with an AA. He went out and got it. Net-net Cael is very judicious with his 9.9 and wants kids to earn it in college rather than throwing out full rides to highschool P4P guys. There are a number of to recruits who passed for a guaranteed full ride elsewhere. If you really are that good, why should it discourage going to PSU?
But, in the case of Ed Ruth, that doesn't make sense. He was recruited by the coach before him. Whatever deal was made, should have been honored. Now, if he wasn't on 80% or more BEFORE Sanderson, fine. But, that is one thing any coach with INTEGRITY doesn't do. Even Brands sacrificed Blanton, because he honored Tsirtsis taking a much needed redshirt and extended his scholarship money.
In the same vein, my big issue with Sanderson has always been how he handled the Jenkins situation when he arrived. It may not have been Sanderson's PSU, but Jenkins had already taken a bullet as a true freshman wrestling up a weight. He would then take 2nd as a true sophomore. He would then wrestle well enough to get the 2 seed, cutting too much weight and visibly injured to the point he had nothing left at NCAA's. He was then promised a redshirt to heal.
In steps Sanderson. Redshirt is no longer an option. Nor is going up to 157. To me, you just don't do that to a guy that did basically EVERYTHING he could for that school. I thought that was so wrong. As a new coach your first responsibility is to show loyalty to that school. Yes, you want to build a winner, but you don't punish a guy that had already done so much for that program. Even if you don't mesh with the kid, he was a runner up and PROVED he deserved the redshirt winning it all for ASU.
For me, how Brands handled Tsirtsis shows why I went all in for him as a coach, while how Sanderson handled Bubba is why I just don't like him.
With that said, no one that matters cares what I think and Sanderson has proven to be FAR AHEAD of Brands as the most productive coach of the past 15 years...
In the first few years, maybe, but after Taylor's class got the ball rolling, plenty of kids and parents were willing to take less to be part of title or multiple title team. Success allows talent stockpiles, that is true across all sports. PSU has also had some alternative scollies via academic and ROTC increase the wealth they can spread.
I am all for creative means to compensate student athletes for tuition/school related expenses. I have no issue with that, whatsoever. I simply HATE seeing the "The parents have money, so they don't care about scholarships!" line. That is almost always pure crap. The people I know with money, didn't get there by not taking it when they can. In fact, it is usually the exact opposite...
I would also include many people "who don't matter" and all Buddhists.
Semantics. One could argue that EVERYONE matters, therefore making sure that NO ONE cares what I think!
I'm not saying these parents won't try to get as much relief as possible, but I am pretty sure they are willing to take a lot less for little Jonny to be part of a national title. At this point they are already pretty deep in a non-returning venture with their kids. There is only one return on investment that matters once they get to college, plus they are going to get A LOT of perks being part of the NLWC.
I don’t agree with your opinions, but this was a good post because you made rationale arguments for your opinions.
You couldn’t be more wrong. Some of us saved for college costs. Getting 1/2 off would’ve been a great savings .
I had twins who weren’t athletes . They took out loans, I paid , and got they had some academic scholarships. It’s how most students do it and the wrestling package stuff is nothing new.
I had twins who weren’t athletes . They took out loans, I paid , and got they had some academic scholarships. It’s how most students do it and the wrestling package stuff is nothing new.
Believe it or not, some wealthy people are willing to make donations to support their favorite programs. A significant portion of donations to a program are made by mere fans or alumni of the school with far less personal affiliations to the program than Bo's parents have.
If Bo's parents are very wealthy, I think it is totally plausible that Bo's parents were willing to pay full tuition as a form of annual donation to support the wrestling program that their son was going to be joining. If a parent is willing to contribute $ to a program, I cannot think of a better way to contribute than waiving a scholarship and making the scholarship available for other athletes in need. Paying full tuition for a child who could otherwise demand a part of the 9.9 available scholarships is a far more efficient donation than the equivalent regular $$ donation to the program.
You are kidding yourself if you believe that very wealthy people will not contribute inordinate amounts of $ to their children's athletic teams to help make these teams better.
Last edited:
There are almost always exceptions to every situation. Maybe the Nickals were. However, that is the exception to the rule. IT has been my experience that a vast majority of wealthy parents expect a return on investments, even when their children are involved. That includes scholarships.
Now, 1 of those exceptions could come from that parent already being a fan and/or alum of that school. I could see it being much easier for them to not push for the money then. But, otherwise, you don’t put all those hours into practices, private clubs, lessons and travel to just not take scholly money when you could basically demand a full ride from many programs…
Most of these people didn’t become wealthy and STAY that way by looking a gift horse in the mouth and then refusing it because you already have money. In fact, I have found that most are looking for every gift horse they can find!
You're absolutely correct in that the wealthy are typically (key word, TYPICALLY) the stingiest SOBs you can come across (especially ones that come from a middle-lower class upbringing).
I've said it before, if my son was a D1 recruit and Sanderson wanted him, he was going to PSU. Any money would have been a great help. Lehigh would be next, that's where he actually attended. They do better with financial aid with most students compared to PSU and if he went there he might not have had any out of pocket expenses.
He was an academic kid, so it didn't matter, but if he was that good he was going to PSU, first because we were alums. Second because we were closer to PSU than than any other big ten school. Lehigh is closer, Cornell would also be closer btw.
So it would most likely be PSU one, Lehigh or Cornell two. And the last two probably would be very competitive due to his academics. If we were very well off and Cael wanted him, financial aid would be the least of my worries.
Your theory often doesn’t apply to choosing a college. If it did, student debt levels would be much less.
Families of across the financial spectrum choose more expensive colleges everyday when similarly ranked, cheaper options are available. Why? Perception, prestige, location, gut feel, etc. and that’s just Billy finding his path to a Business degree.
You really think a family that dedicated every ounce of time and money the last 15 years to nurture their ultra gifted kid would choose a wrestling program based on price if they didn't have to?
First off we aren’t comparing a juco to Harvard. If you already know you are paying your kids way, most with money aren’t dumb enough to waste it on a lesser school if your kid can get a big name degree.
In a similar vein, I am not saying parents will push their kid to a middle or even low tier program just for more scholarship money. That makes no sense. But, if you could go to OkState or tOSU or similar schools a VAST majority aren’t going to ignore strong offers from them and just run to PSU for free. Now, with NIL, that may change that, but I stand firmly by most parents not just ignoring significant scholarship money from top schools just to go to PSU, if they don’t already have strong ties to that school and/or program…
I’d agree with you but then we’d both be wrong…
You’re not thinking like a family who’s life has been an all-encompassing sacrifice to help their kid become a Champion. Their mindset is to do whatever it takes to give their kid every sliver of advantage.
Don’t you think Kemerer and his family would pay $100k to rewrite history as an NCAA champion?
Now if a top recruit’s family thought PSU (or Iowa or anywhere) is THE program to put them over the top and become a Champion instead of an AA, do you think they’d pay an extra $40-$100k? That they might’ve saved for anyway?
PSU’s hit rate at turning high end recruits into NCAA champions is far better than anyone else. That only has to matter a ton to 2 elite recruits a year for it to be an advantage.
Your opening line told me all I needed to know about this conversation. I will happily agree to disagree at this point.
I speak from personal experience when I talk about wealthy parents and recruiting. Obviously, my experience doesn’t encompass PSU whatsoever, but it is a decent amount of families that put years and years and a lot of money into the sport.
Getting to scholarship status was almost always a driving point throughout. Very few of them thought it was 1 school or bust and even the ones that did were almost always convinced to still look at 5 schools to really see first hand what they have to offer.
Give it up…. MSU would argue with you if you told him, “happy Tuesday,” today.
Oh, how times change, eh?
you can go on and on about percentages of scholarships and Caels distribution of them...then you talk about wealthy parents who would pay the cost themselves just to watch their son wrestle for the Blue boys at PSU...i disagree and the reason is easy. FOLLOW THE MONEY.... The PSU kids followed a simple plan... attend PSU...work local instructional camps and get paid for their work. A local wrestling booster club gets an anonymous donation of 15,000 dollars for help in holding a Wrestling camp. The local team secures they facilities...sends out the fliers and signs up 100 kids at 100 dollars a kid this brings in an additional 10,000 dollars to the booster club...they then have 4 camp counselors (PSU wrestlers) who come and teach technique for a day . for which they received 3000 dollars. FOR 1 DAY ....maybe 4 hours of instruction,,,,,,, and after the 4 days the local kids are happy and the PSU boys were happy and 3000 dollars richer and the local booster club is now 13,000 dollars better off and they THEN use that money to pay for any interested wrestler at their high school to attend any other summer camp...and the cycle continues. some of these college kids were working 3 or 4 camps a week....in my estimation 4 camps time 3000 dollars is 12,000 dollars a week and with about 9 or 10 solid weeks of camps a summer.... it didnt matter about who got what partial scholarship and who got the full ride ....other than pride and vanity. Along comes NIL money ad it will take a while but the best method is to follow the money
$3,000/duh-duh-day? Three a week for ten weeks? But…. can they keep raking in the camp money while training post grad?
