Sorry for derailing us. This isn't the thread for a philosophical discussion of the realtive merits of various sporting formats. Both systems are flawed, and the flaws go deeper than just the postseason.
40 years of being an Iowa fan is depressing....truly
- Thread starter JRHawk2003
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Sorry for derailing us. This isn't the thread for a philosophical discussion of the realtive merits of various sporting formats. Both systems are flawed, and the flaws go deeper than just the postseason.
Too bad you don't go back far enough to remember when Iowa beat UCLA and broke their winning streak.
Chris Williams said to Iowa State fans: "You don't root for Iowa State because it's easy. You root for Iowa State because it's awesome." (or something like that). Same can be said for Iowa fans.
I do. In fact basketball got so little coverage on TV back then all you had was Zabel and WHO. I can remember getting a college scorebook for Christmas and I would try to follow along and keep score. Very hard with Zabel. I specifically remember that Gail Goodrich was the UCLA star at the time. I'm not sure about their winning streak but the game was at a neutral site ( Chicago, I think ). '64 or '65 perhaps at the start of UCLA's 10 year total dominance. It was terrible for basketball actually. Lew Alcindor ( Karem Abdul Jabber ) went to UCLA without even a visit from Wooden.
Lew Alcindor visited UCLA and met John Wooden.
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2014/8/17/6027723/ucla-basketball-wooden-part-4-recruiting-lew-alcindor
Finally, Alcindor met Wooden in his office. Though his initial impression of Wooden was that of a square, bespectacled little old man with a Midwestern twang, Alcindor liked Wooden. He had been promised the moon by almost every college coach in America, but Wooden, who called him Lewis, only promised him a quality education. Wooden told him that was impressed by his grades and that he would do well at UCLA. Alcindor felt respected by Wooden. Everyone said they liked big Lew, but Alcindor thought Wooden was the only one who meant it.
Alcindor made his college decision there and then in Wooden's office. On May 4, 1965, in the Powell Memorial gym, in front of 80 members of the media, Alcindor announced that he would be attending UCLA.
That is one cool piece of trivia I had never heard of.
I wonder if they got scrapped, probably did. Might not have been much to look at, but they'd be pretty to me in my game room.
Part of the problem is what the benchmarks are for success in the modern era of CBB. They are:
1) NCAA tourney appearances
2) Final Fours
3) Sweet 16's
4) Top recruiting classes with players from prep schools
5) League titles
6) Conference tourney winners
Point is that there are over 300 D-1 teams and only 1 winner. You have a 1/75 chance of the final 4. In football, there is 115 or so D-1 teams with 80 going to bowl games.
Think about how CBB is covered. What do you hear? You hear the pimping of the blue bloods...Kansas, Duke, MSU and Kentucky. You hear about the recruiting...Vitale's stupid diaper dandies...But how much do you really hear about teams that have lots of 4 year players?
Wisconsin has never come close to getting the respect they deserve until last year and it took them getting to the final. Teams like Gonzaga, Xavier, Utah, Arizona are always good and nearly always in the tourney but they get little national publicity.
I guess whatever success we are all seeking will only go to soothe our own ego's because I am not sure even a few years of success is going to elevate our national status much.
1) NCAA tourney appearances
2) Final Fours
3) Sweet 16's
4) Top recruiting classes with players from prep schools
5) League titles
6) Conference tourney winners
Point is that there are over 300 D-1 teams and only 1 winner. You have a 1/75 chance of the final 4. In football, there is 115 or so D-1 teams with 80 going to bowl games.
Think about how CBB is covered. What do you hear? You hear the pimping of the blue bloods...Kansas, Duke, MSU and Kentucky. You hear about the recruiting...Vitale's stupid diaper dandies...But how much do you really hear about teams that have lots of 4 year players?
Wisconsin has never come close to getting the respect they deserve until last year and it took them getting to the final. Teams like Gonzaga, Xavier, Utah, Arizona are always good and nearly always in the tourney but they get little national publicity.
I guess whatever success we are all seeking will only go to soothe our own ego's because I am not sure even a few years of success is going to elevate our national status much.
hawkisak nailed it. The only thing I'd say differently is that for me personally a Big Ten Title is the goal. Anything that happens in the NCAA's, which I do expect us to make most of the time, is gravy.
But back to his excellent post, some random thoughts:
1) Unlike the pros, if you have a bad team you don't get to draft early. You get to recruit from a worse position than the winners. Like golf, the worse you play, the worse your lie.
2) Speaking of lies, there is one heII of a lot of cheating in recruiting. So don't even think we're on a level field.
3) And many cheaters have it down to such science that it isn't even cheating. Like 9 million dollar dorms that house a basketball team and 27 other people.
4) As mentioned, the media wants it just like it is, the pro model of elite teams and also appearing types.
5) Television money and markets is the driving force and if one can't see the advantages given, which all go back to recruiting, one is blind.
So here we are in Iowa where we don't merit a pro team and what makes us think we'll merit anything but also ran status from the powers that be? Again, between schedules and favoritism among refs how are we supposed to out recruit our opponents or beat them, especially in close games? (Hint!!!!!) Ask Pat Chambers about the officials! And why does the Big Ten have to have large fines to hold over the heads of coaches, to keep them quiet?!?!? And how did you like your no Saturday home game schedule? How did you like the Big ten breaking one of their main points of emphasis in scheduling to have Iowa play on a Sunday and a Tuesday?!?!
Did the Big Ten care how much time Iowa had to get ready? (I don't know how much it mattered) The point is...was it fair!?!?
So what the heck do people expect? If one wants to follow a team that should have expectations of winning just as much as other team they face? Follow the pros! We, here at Iowa, just like many other teams, many we are not the persecuted minority here, we are the 99% to the 1% elite. If one wants to be an Iowa fan one needs to understand that on the PRO-WRESTLING card that is put out by the powers that be in college basketball, we are supposed to lose.
We are the Amateurs at the U.S. Open.
We are the untrained poorly armed rebels facing the King's men.
We are the breedless mutt in the pound.
We are NOT Vitale's favorite or the team Delaney wants winning.
Should we feel down about it? No. We should enjoy every time we manage to beat one of these big shots, one of these cheaters, and hang onto it for the David vs. Goliath unlikeliness that it is! I'm still enjoying the victory over UNC last year. "Hey cheaters!!! Did you notice Jarrod Uthoff made the National Academic Player of the Year this year!!! You #$$ing bunch of cheaters!!"
I have no problem being proud of our Iowa Hawkeyes. I'm not trying to pick on anyone but in fact I hope I've said something somewhere in this mess that helps point out why we've got a lot to be proud of. Perfect? No. But remember that graphic from the Indiana game that showed Iowa has "only" won eight Big Ten Basketball Titles? We'd have nine if it weren't for Minnesota's cheating. How come they get away with that!?!?
No, we're just playing basketball, following the rules, putting out good graduates. I think that for the most part we do pretty well.
But back to his excellent post, some random thoughts:
1) Unlike the pros, if you have a bad team you don't get to draft early. You get to recruit from a worse position than the winners. Like golf, the worse you play, the worse your lie.
2) Speaking of lies, there is one heII of a lot of cheating in recruiting. So don't even think we're on a level field.
3) And many cheaters have it down to such science that it isn't even cheating. Like 9 million dollar dorms that house a basketball team and 27 other people.
4) As mentioned, the media wants it just like it is, the pro model of elite teams and also appearing types.
5) Television money and markets is the driving force and if one can't see the advantages given, which all go back to recruiting, one is blind.
So here we are in Iowa where we don't merit a pro team and what makes us think we'll merit anything but also ran status from the powers that be? Again, between schedules and favoritism among refs how are we supposed to out recruit our opponents or beat them, especially in close games? (Hint!!!!!) Ask Pat Chambers about the officials! And why does the Big Ten have to have large fines to hold over the heads of coaches, to keep them quiet?!?!? And how did you like your no Saturday home game schedule? How did you like the Big ten breaking one of their main points of emphasis in scheduling to have Iowa play on a Sunday and a Tuesday?!?!
Did the Big Ten care how much time Iowa had to get ready? (I don't know how much it mattered) The point is...was it fair!?!?
So what the heck do people expect? If one wants to follow a team that should have expectations of winning just as much as other team they face? Follow the pros! We, here at Iowa, just like many other teams, many we are not the persecuted minority here, we are the 99% to the 1% elite. If one wants to be an Iowa fan one needs to understand that on the PRO-WRESTLING card that is put out by the powers that be in college basketball, we are supposed to lose.
We are the Amateurs at the U.S. Open.
We are the untrained poorly armed rebels facing the King's men.
We are the breedless mutt in the pound.
We are NOT Vitale's favorite or the team Delaney wants winning.
Should we feel down about it? No. We should enjoy every time we manage to beat one of these big shots, one of these cheaters, and hang onto it for the David vs. Goliath unlikeliness that it is! I'm still enjoying the victory over UNC last year. "Hey cheaters!!! Did you notice Jarrod Uthoff made the National Academic Player of the Year this year!!! You #$$ing bunch of cheaters!!"
I have no problem being proud of our Iowa Hawkeyes. I'm not trying to pick on anyone but in fact I hope I've said something somewhere in this mess that helps point out why we've got a lot to be proud of. Perfect? No. But remember that graphic from the Indiana game that showed Iowa has "only" won eight Big Ten Basketball Titles? We'd have nine if it weren't for Minnesota's cheating. How come they get away with that!?!?
No, we're just playing basketball, following the rules, putting out good graduates. I think that for the most part we do pretty well.
A couple years ago we got knocked out in the semi-final of the BTT in a total screw job vs MSU. I'd consider that a very strong sniff.
You're already famous for overreacting. Don't make it any worse on yourself.
40 years of seeing this is hardly overreacting.
I will be watching it again tomorrow night hoping for a different result.
I will be watching it again tomorrow night hoping for a different result.
Stepping back a bit, while the end of season collapse is tough to watch, I can't claim it's any harder to be a Hawk fan than the numerous other schools that will make the NCAA tourney and exit early.
I expected a team this year that would be on the positive side of the bubble. Well, as bad as they've been lately, they are still safely in. Even losing tomorrow and first round BTT won't change that.
Two things make this slump disappointing. First, they got my hopes up with a great January and then promptly yanked the rug out. Second, the trajectory of the season is the opposite of what I'd hope for with the NCAA tourney coming up.
While the bottom line wouldn't look much different, I'd trade some January wins for ones now.
I expected a team this year that would be on the positive side of the bubble. Well, as bad as they've been lately, they are still safely in. Even losing tomorrow and first round BTT won't change that.
Two things make this slump disappointing. First, they got my hopes up with a great January and then promptly yanked the rug out. Second, the trajectory of the season is the opposite of what I'd hope for with the NCAA tourney coming up.
While the bottom line wouldn't look much different, I'd trade some January wins for ones now.
