43 Percent of White Students Harvard Admits Are Legacies, Jocks, or the Kids of Donors and Faculty

[BelemNole]

Man, don't you just hate Affirmative Action?

This month, a group of researchers have delivered a sobering look at how affirmative action works for affluent whites at America’s most prestigious university.

From 2009 until 2014, the paper “Legacy and Athlete Preferences at Harvard” finds, 43 percent of the Caucasian applicants accepted at Harvard University were either athletes, legacies, or the children of donors and faculty.Only about a quarter of those students would have been accepted to the school, the study concludes, without those admissions advantages.

The paper is based on data that emerged during the controversial lawsuit that accused the university of discriminating against Asian applicants, which gave the public an unprecedented look behind the scenes of the school’s admissions process. (Closing arguments in that case wrapped in February, but the judge has not rendered a decision.) The study’s lead author, Duke University economist Peter Arcidiacono, served as an expert witness for the case’s plaintiffs, who are seekingto eliminate the consideration of race in university admissions. But the new research was conducted independently without any funding from the plaintiffs, according to a disclosure. And while that suit is attempting to end affirmative action policies aimed at helping blacks and Hispanics, this study focuses on mechanisms that most often give a leg up to Caucasians.

https://slate.com/business/2019/09/harvard-admissions-affirmative-action-white-students-legacy-athletes-donors.html?fbclid=IwAR3b5d6j6R2qdEwQdnJKtCcH8zf_p8nhOiKNBFlL2vX-LbzT9Q2PDdVbG8A

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

When I saw 3% in the title I thought that seemed awefully small. 43 percent makes more sense.

Goes to show how you get ahead in this country. Be an athlete or have rich parents. Being actually smarter or more capable doesn't actually do much.

 

[BelemNole]

When I saw 3% in the title I thought that seemed awefully small. 43 percent makes more sense.

Goes to show how you get ahead in this country. Be an athlete or have rich parents. Being actually smarter or more capable doesn't actually do much.

Thanks, fixed

 

[h-hawk]

This is why I don't think those actor cheaters should go to jail - they just did their bribing the wrong way. Just tell USC you want to donate a new football scholarship to them and those kids would have gotten in easily.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Legacies are such a joke, as are children of donors and faculty. I would say the same about athletes but if they field athletic teams, they have to have athletes.

 

[Run&Blade]

So if you are white and smart you are screwed unless you are an athlete or connected ?

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

So if you are white and smart you are screwed unless you are an athlete or connected ?

apparently

 

[Run&Blade]

apparently

Ok, I assumed that.

Would it help if I was1/1024 Native American ?

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Ok, I assumed that.

Would it help if I was1/1024 Native American ?

it might

I'm apparently 30% French.....I should get something for havin that stain on my reputation right?

 

[LuteHawk]

Harvard is not alone in this particular profile. There
are certainly other prestigious universities who have
similar statistics.

As we learned in the film "Animal House" Legacies
are here to stay. Children of big donors are in the
same category. Nothing new or shocking in this
43% stat.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Harvard is not alone in this particular profile. There
are certainly other prestigious universities who have
similar statistics.

As we learned in the film "Animal House" Legacies
are here to stay. Children of big donors are in the
same category. Nothing new or shocking in this
43% stat.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

So if you are white and smart you are screwed unless you are an athlete or connected ?

I wouldn't say screwed but the point is that you are behind the 8-ball.

This is why I don't think those actor cheaters should go to jail - they just did their bribing the wrong way. Just tell USC you want to donate a new football scholarship to them and those kids would have gotten in easily.

I think they should but I also think they where stupid because you are right. They could have just offered to donate the money to the school right as their children are having their applications processed and that probably would have gotten them in.

The only way that what they did makes sense is if their children's real grades and test scores where so bad that even with a big pile of cash in front of them the college could not create a good enough sounding excuse to let a person in with those grades.

The other issue is who is going to undo the long multi year sentence that Tanya McDowell got for sending her child to the wrong PUBLIC ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

 

[unIowa]

Why are we blaming these parents that want the best for their kids? Sounds like we should be discussing Harvards poor enrollment practices then again they are not a public university so why do we GAF who they admit and how they are doing it? It is 100% Harvard's call.

 

[Urohawk]

Just be careful of stereotypes. I think my story illustrates a point:

1. Father is first guy in family to go to college. Did so by joining the marines during Vietnam. Got a purple heart. Went to school on the GI bill.
2. Generation 2- I go to med school. Sister is a teacher. Brother has some college but did not graduate and has a good job in car industry
3. Generation 3- I marry a doctor (fellow classmate). Her family owned a gas station in small town Iowa which was the family business for 40+ years (no college). We have 3 boys. My wife and I are very fortunate to be where we are and can afford to have all our kids go to college. However, we can't foot the bill for paying Ivy league tuition since are still paying off student loans.

Does that sound like the story of entitled legacy kids? I'm sure people will make assumptions about my kids when they apply to college. I'm well aware that if my Dad didn't go to Vietnam, I would not have had his influence about education.

The stupid thing about Harvard is they have so much money, all their students can go to school for free. Legacy and donors don't matter. At some point they should be considered a for profit institution. Not sure why they don't fund some inner city magnet high schools to develop talent that otherwise doesn't have an opportunity and give them guaranteed admission.

 

[Ban Meat]

Well, look at their test scores and let the chips fall where they may.

Of course that would mean lots more Asian kids and less AA or Spanish kids.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Just be careful of stereotypes. I think my story illustrates a point:

1. Father is first guy in family to go to college. Did so by joining the marines during Vietnam. Got a purple heart. Went to school on the GI bill.
2. Generation 2- I go to med school. Sister is a teacher. Brother has some college but did not graduate and has a good job in car industry
3. Generation 3- I marry a doctor (fellow classmate). Her family owned a gas station in small town Iowa which was the family business for 40+ years (no college). We have 3 boys. My wife and I are very fortunate to be where we are and can afford to have all our kids go to college. However, we can't foot the bill for paying Ivy league tuition since are still paying off student loans.

Does that sound like the story of entitled legacy kids? I'm sure people will make assumptions about my kids when they apply to college. I'm well aware that if my Dad didn't go to Vietnam, I would not have had his influence about education.

The stupid thing about Harvard is they have so much money, all their students can go to school for free. Legacy and donors don't matter. At some point they should be considered a for profit institution. Not sure why they don't fund some inner city magnet high schools to develop talent that otherwise doesn't have an opportunity and give them guaranteed admission.

But that's the point your kids will have the jump on other kids in huge part not to their own efforts but the efforts of their ancestors (You, their mom and their grandparents). And there is a chance that they will be getting there taking the place of kids who actually should have earned the shot through their own efforts.

I don't blame you for trying to do best for your kids but at the same time it goes to show that we are the shadow of a meritocracy. We pretend to be one but when you look deeper the places and the things you do to obtain merit, you get into those heavily based upon who your mom and dad are and who their friends are.

That doesn't take away from what their grandparents did and what you and their mom have done. But if we where a meritocracy those things wouldn't define them, they would succeed or fail based on their own abilities.

If mom and dad are well connected and well off, you can be below average and get ahead. If your mom and dad are poor without connections, being above average just isn't good enough. You have to be flat out exceptional.

Why are we blaming these parents that want the best for their kids? Sounds like we should be discussing Harvards poor enrollment practices then again they are not a public university so why do we GAF who they admit and how they are doing it? It is 100% Harvard's call.

It goes to show how little merit actually means in this country and how the primary decider of where you end up in life isn't hard work or your capabilities. But good old fashioned "who your parents where".

We basically have a less formal version of the European nobility system that they carried on for like 800 years.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Just be careful of stereotypes. I think my story illustrates a point:

1. Father is first guy in family to go to college. Did so by joining the marines during Vietnam. Got a purple heart. Went to school on the GI bill.
2. Generation 2- I go to med school. Sister is a teacher. Brother has some college but did not graduate and has a good job in car industry
3. Generation 3- I marry a doctor (fellow classmate). Her family owned a gas station in small town Iowa which was the family business for 40+ years (no college). We have 3 boys. My wife and I are very fortunate to be where we are and can afford to have all our kids go to college. However, we can't foot the bill for paying Ivy league tuition since are still paying off student loans.

Does that sound like the story of entitled legacy kids? I'm sure people will make assumptions about my kids when they apply to college. I'm well aware that if my Dad didn't go to Vietnam, I would not have had his influence about education.

The stupid thing about Harvard is they have so much money, all their students can go to school for free. Legacy and donors don't matter. At some point they should be considered a for profit institution. Not sure why they don't fund some inner city magnet high schools to develop talent that otherwise doesn't have an opportunity and give them guaranteed admission.

I don’t see your story as equivalent unless you or your kids were/are unqualified and still admitted based on legacy status.

 

[hawkedoff]

Just be careful of stereotypes. I think my story illustrates a point:

1. Father is first guy in family to go to college. Did so by joining the marines during Vietnam. Got a purple heart. Went to school on the GI bill.
2. Generation 2- I go to med school. Sister is a teacher. Brother has some college but did not graduate and has a good job in car industry
3. Generation 3- I marry a doctor (fellow classmate). Her family owned a gas station in small town Iowa which was the family business for 40+ years (no college). We have 3 boys. My wife and I are very fortunate to be where we are and can afford to have all our kids go to college. However, we can't foot the bill for paying Ivy league tuition since are still paying off student loans.

Does that sound like the story of entitled legacy kids? I'm sure people will make assumptions about my kids when they apply to college. I'm well aware that if my Dad didn't go to Vietnam, I would not have had his influence about education.

The stupid thing about Harvard is they have so much money, all their students can go to school for free. Legacy and donors don't matter. At some point they should be considered a for profit institution. Not sure why they don't fund some inner city magnet high schools to develop talent that otherwise doesn't have an opportunity and give them guaranteed admission.

Harvard's endowment exceeds 30 billion dollars. Their undergraduate enrollment is around 5k students. That is truly insane

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

Why are we blaming these parents that want the best for their kids? Sounds like we should be discussing Harvards poor enrollment practices then again they are not a public university so why do we GAF who they admit and how they are doing it? It is 100% Harvard's call.

It would be helpful if society would stop worshipping these schools and treating their graduates as if they are somehow superior to the rest of us who didn't have parents that attended. The statistics on Supreme Court justices who attended Harvard and Yale versus the entire rest of the universe of law schools is shocking. Apparently very few smart lawyers went to any other law schools. I worked with a Harvard law grad in my department years ago. She was canned for performance reasons. My point is, a Harvard degree has value because we all assume that these people are the best of the best due to the Harvard brand. U.S. News and World Report has done more harm to education than can be measured.

I had two very good friends in high school whom both wanted very badly to attend Notre Dame. One was in the top 10 of our class, took all accelerated and AP classes, did outstanding on the SAT, was in honor society, and was involved in more activities. The other was maybe in the top quarter of our class, didn't take the accelerated and AP tracks, didn't do all that well on the SATs, was not in any academic clubs or societies, and his activities consisted solely of football and basketball. But his father and his grandfather both went to Notre Dame and his family were big boosters. Guess which one got into Notre Dame and which went to Marquette? I was offended when it happened. As a friend to both, it was obvious who deserved it more.

 

[Urohawk]

We basically have a less formal version of the European nobility system that they carried on for like 800 years.

But that is the point of my story....we don't have a European nobility system (or at least we didn't). The American dream works for many but not all. Even the poorest in this country have it better off than 90% of the rest of the world. I think people forget that or have never traveled overseas. A little perspective would go along way.

The great thing about America is economic mobility. Many people will go in and out of the top 20%. See the following:
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/...it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while
I think the big issue today is the wealth gap. The distance between rich and middle class has never been further. Mostly this is exacerbated by globalization, cheap labor, and poor economic policies. The margin for middle class is shrinking.

We should focus less on the successful and focus more on the poor. A kid raised in inner city Detroit to a crack whore isn't ever going to have a chance at life. Someone who gets cancer without having insurance is almost guaranteed to go bankrupt. We need a better safety net. I like the Joe Rogan idea, "We need to have America have less losers." Stop worrying about Harvard and worry about why the high schools in KC, MO aren't even accredited by the state of Missouri. Get poor kids to tech schools. Get people drug rehab. Etc.

 

[Run&Blade]

Harvard's endowment exceeds 30 billion dollars. Their undergraduate enrollment is around 5k students. That is truly insane

Sounds like he national debt police could take a slice of that.

 

[Urohawk]

I don’t see your story as equivalent unless you or your kids were/are unqualified and still admitted based on legacy status.

You're correct, but the automatic assumption by people is that I myself must be entitled because I'm a doctor and my kids certainly more so. My point was in reference to Hoosier's statement above, "Goes to show how you get ahead in this country. Be an athlete or have rich parents." That's not the case with me.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

But that is the point of my story....we don't have a European nobility system (or at least we didn't). The American dream works for many but not all. Even the poorest in this country have it better off than 90% of the rest of the world. I think people forget that or have never traveled overseas. A little perspective would go along way.

The great thing about America is economic mobility. Many people will go in and out of the top 20%. See the following:
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/...it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while
I think the big issue today is the wealth gap. The distance between rich and middle class has never been further. Mostly this is exacerbated by globalization, cheap labor, and poor economic policies. The margin for middle class is shrinking.

We should focus less on the successful and focus more on the poor. A kid raised in inner city Detroit to a crack whore isn't ever going to have a chance at life. Someone who gets cancer without having insurance is almost guaranteed to go bankrupt. We need a better safety net. I like the Joe Rogan idea, "We need to have American have less losers." Stop worrying about Harvard and worry about why the high schools in KC, MO aren't even accredited by the state of Missouri. Get poor kids to tech schools. Get people drug rehab.

And those are fair enough ideas and we do have to concentrate on the less successful. The problem is that we are ignoring a big giagantic problem in that the successful arn't earning it because they have merit. They are earning it because of who mom and dad are.

And it's that problem that is causing the middle class to shrink.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

You're correct, but the automatic assumption by people is that I myself must be entitled because I'm a doctor and my kids certainly more so. My point was in reference to Hoosier's statement above, "Goes to show how you get ahead in this country. Be an athlete or have rich parents." That's not the case with me.

Maybe an overstatement but it certainly is a strong path to success in this country.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Yep, until they start cracking down on this type of shit I'm not going to get bent out of shape about affirmative action.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Yep, until they start cracking down on this type of shit I'm not going to get bent out of shape about affirmative action.

That's a fair enough point. But the problem is that this needs to be cracked down on anyways. Not every white male have parents who have the money to be big time donors or has a legacy with the school.

You want me to believe we live in a meritocracy then this stuff has to just stop plain and simple.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

That's a fair enough point. But the problem is that this needs to be cracked down on anyways. Not every white male have parents who have the money to be big time donors or has a legacy with the school.

You want me to believe we live in a meritocracy then this stuff has to just stop plain and simple.

I don't disagree.

 

[Kenneth Griffin]

I don't think people realize how much needs to be donated to make sure your kid gets in, its easily into the 7 figures. im sure if aunt becky could have afforded to donate a building she would have. I fully admit I would not have been admitted to Harvard if I wasn't a legacy but I don't care.

 

[lawsonhawk]

They are earning it because of who mom and dad are.

And it's that problem that is causing the middle class to shrink.

That's an overstatement if not complete bullshit. The two greatest predictors of success are IQ and attitude. On that, you can blame mom and dad.

Worrying about not being one of the 5000 that got into Harvard it stupid. The numbers don't justify the qualm.

My oldest worked her ass off, didn't get into Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Wash U, or U of Chicago. After undergrad she created a resume that got her into a Harvard Master's project. She got her attitude . . . from her mom . . .

I have a friend that makes 2 million a year that went to Toledo. A friend that has 70 plumbers that work for him. A friend that went to Kansas and quit that was probably #3 at Cerner and has switched consulting job after job and just keeps working because he a guy that has to be productive. My wife went to Wyoming and makes 300k/year.

If you look at poor neighborhoods you'll find a congregation of lower IQ's and lower ambition. It's not the fault of people that have bred success. I'm empathetic, but I'm not naive. People need to recognize they are in charge of their lives.

The reason "white privilege" to the extent that it does or doesn't exist, is such a crap narrative is because it creates a victim attitude which wipes out half of the two greatest predictors of success.

 

[runkpanole]

Harvard is a private institution. I’m not sure government could force affirmative action upon them. Not sure this is the best test case, OP.

 

[stout1]

I appreciate being lectured about meritocracy by a guy who can’t use proper grammar.

 

[LuteHawk]

The issue of legacies is not really a problem for most
people. A college has a built in recruitment process
with legacies and it can extend for several generations.
If the legacies have high ACT/SAT scores and are
students who want to learn, then there should be no
problem.

 

[UNIowaHawk]

The 43% number has nothing to do with Affirmative Action— for or against.

 

[Gonolz]

It would be helpful if society would stop worshipping these schools and treating their graduates as if they are somehow superior to the rest of us who didn't have parents that attended. The statistics on Supreme Court justices who attended Harvard and Yale versus the entire rest of the universe of law schools is shocking. Apparently very few smart lawyers went to any other law schools. I worked with a Harvard law grad in my department years ago. She was canned for performance reasons. My point is, a Harvard degree has value because we all assume that these people are the best of the best due to the Harvard brand. U.S. News and World Report has done more harm to education than can be measured.

I had two very good friends in high school whom both wanted very badly to attend Notre Dame. One was in the top 10 of our class, took all accelerated and AP classes, did outstanding on the SAT, was in honor society, and was involved in more activities. The other was maybe in the top quarter of our class, didn't take the accelerated and AP tracks, didn't do all that well on the SATs, was not in any academic clubs or societies, and his activities consisted solely of football and basketball. But his father and his grandfather both went to Notre Dame and his family were big boosters. Guess which one got into Notre Dame and which went to Marquette? I was offended when it happened. As a friend to both, it was obvious who deserved it more.

Sounds like you ended up going to an average public school like Iowa State and resent not getting into a good school.

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

Sounds like you ended up going to an average public school like Iowa State and resent not getting into a good school.

Actually, I originally went to school at Annapolis and transferred after two years when I realized 8 more years of military life wasn’t for me. And one thing I found out is that there are lots of smart people at ISU also. I thought I would go there and skate to good grades. But it turns out I had to study just as hard at ISU to do well. I’m not saying that schools are created equal, but I am saying that we need to take academic ratings with a grain of salt.

 

[Gonolz]

Actually, I originally went to school at Annapolis and transferred after two years when I realized 8 more years of military life wasn’t for me. And one thing I found out is that there are lots of smart people at ISU also. I thought I would go there and skate to good grades. But it turns out I had to study just as hard at ISU to do well. I’m not saying that schools are created equal, but I am saying that we need to take academic ratings with a grain of salt.

I take everything with a grain of salt. That is why I have high blood pressure.

 

[DavidHawk324]

That's an overstatement if not complete bullshit. The two greatest predictors of success are IQ and attitude. On that, you can blame mom and dad.

Worrying about not being one of the 5000 that got into Harvard it stupid. The numbers don't justify the qualm.

My oldest worked her ass off, didn't get into Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Wash U, or U of Chicago. After undergrad she created a resume that got her into a Harvard Master's project. She got her attitude . . . from her mom . . .

I have a friend that makes 2 million a year that went to Toledo. A friend that has 70 plumbers that work for him. A friend that went to Kansas and quit that was probably #3 at Cerner and has switched consulting job after job and just keeps working because he a guy that has to be productive. My wife went to Wyoming and makes 300k/year.

If you look at poor neighborhoods you'll find a congregation of lower IQ's and lower ambition. It's not the fault of people that have bred success. I'm empathetic, but I'm not naive. People need to recognize they are in charge of their lives.

The reason "white privilege" to the extent that it does or doesn't exist, is such a crap narrative is because it creates a victim attitude which wipes out half of the two greatest predictors of success.

Are there studies showing that the greatest indicators of success are IQ and attitude or did you just make it up and then pick a few anecdotal stories to support your claim?

 

[lawsonhawk]

Are there studies showing that the greatest indicators of success are IQ and attitude or did you just make it up and then pick a few anecdotal stories to support your claim?

https://google.com

 

[lawsonhawk]

Actually, I originally went to school at Annapolis and transferred after two years when I realized 8 more years of military life wasn’t for me. And one thing I found out is that there are lots of smart people at ISU also. I thought I would go there and skate to good grades. But it turns out I had to study just as hard at ISU to do well. I’m not saying that schools are created equal, but I am saying that we need to take academic ratings with a grain of salt.

my bil finished there, went to med school at Georgetown
They move EVERY two years to different Naval bases. I guess that's part of the program. You made a good choice.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

That's an overstatement if not complete bullshit. The two greatest predictors of success are IQ and attitude. On that, you can blame mom and dad.

Worrying about not being one of the 5000 that got into Harvard it stupid. The numbers don't justify the qualm.

My oldest worked her ass off, didn't get into Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Wash U, or U of Chicago. After undergrad she created a resume that got her into a Harvard Master's project. She got her attitude . . . from her mom . . .

I have a friend that makes 2 million a year that went to Toledo. A friend that has 70 plumbers that work for him. A friend that went to Kansas and quit that was probably #3 at Cerner and has switched consulting job after job and just keeps working because he a guy that has to be productive. My wife went to Wyoming and makes 300k/year.

If you look at poor neighborhoods you'll find a congregation of lower IQ's and lower ambition. It's not the fault of people that have bred success. I'm empathetic, but I'm not naive. People need to recognize they are in charge of their lives.

The reason "white privilege" to the extent that it does or doesn't exist, is such a crap narrative is because it creates a victim attitude which wipes out half of the two greatest predictors of success.

Meanwhile in the real world.

https://www.wnpr.org/post/georgetown-study-wealth-not-ability-biggest-predictor-future-success

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3088-american-dream-wealthy-parents.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/parents-determine-child-success-income-inequality-2014-1

For the record I'm not saying success is entirely impossible if you don't have family wealth. But it's a lot tougher and the more your parents lack the tougher and tougher it is. Because at every turn there is something in the way. Even if you manage to pull off getting into college after going to a crap public school and you manage to pay for college likely with a ton of student loans. You graduate with your degree and suddenly you are trying to find your way in a world where no one knows who you are. So much about getting a job is knowing someone. When your parents are poor and they have never even met someone with a college degree much less know them real well. It's pretty tough.

And I'm also saying every silver spoon rich white kid always thinks they got ahead because they where smarter and worked harder. Because they did in fact work for it, but the thing that they have neglected to notice is that their family wealth bulldozed the way for them, so for them it was just a simple stroll while other people where going over a massive obstacle course straight out of American Nina Warrior. Then they often turn around look at everyone behind them and lecture them on hard work and ambition.

If you want to talk about stories, I knew someone who went to college for 7 years straight and changed majors like 6 different times. Graduated with no student debt.

On the other hand I went one extra semester (not even an entire year) because changed majors one time and a full third of my student loan debt came from that one semester.

Remember this: Almost every one of the kids who's parents cheated their way into those schools thought they belonged there and that they got in of their own merits.