A conversation about police and violence....
- Thread starter Kinnick.At.Night
- Start date
You got a pair of Ryan handles to respond. Not what you were hoping for?
Flick,
Did you watch the video? It challenges a narrative, with facts. It's actually quite interesting.
Did you watch the video? It challenges a narrative, with facts. It's actually quite interesting.
- Very little emotionalism and sensationalism, so right off the bat I can appreciate dialog and data.
- Good to see the numbers going down.
- Can this guy moderate HROT?
- Oh, and I've been stating not ALL police are bad for years:
Warning - graphic Police camera from yesterday
Imagine if the shitheads in Uvalde would have engaged like these officers did. Maybe, less than 19 children and 2 adults would have died.
iowa.forums.rivals.com
My numbers were pretty darn close here. He says 65mil, I said 61mil:
Our nationwide Police force is nearly beyond reform
There are endless stories about things like this. What the **** is the answer?!
iowa.forums.rivals.com
Meh. His argument is incomplete as it only includes statistics around deaths. I get what he’s trying to infer in a broader sense, but the problems and bias in policing goes beyond just deaths.
In general, his argument does not change my opinion that police need to be held to a higher standard as they are given immense power over citizens, they need to police themselves better than they currently do, they need to be uber transparent (cameras NEVER “off”), we need to move away from militarization, we need more people who understand mental health involved in some way, they need more training, they need more pay, they need to be held accountable, and when they do something wrong the accountability needs to come swift and direct.
I’m not ACAB. But I don’t consider the police to be heroes. They’re citizens that took a job they chose. They don’t deserve a medal or some special recognition just for pulling a paycheck in the job they picked. Instead, they should strive towards All Cops Are Good and just do their job without abusing their power.
In general, his argument does not change my opinion that police need to be held to a higher standard as they are given immense power over citizens, they need to police themselves better than they currently do, they need to be uber transparent (cameras NEVER “off”), we need to move away from militarization, we need more people who understand mental health involved in some way, they need more training, they need more pay, they need to be held accountable, and when they do something wrong the accountability needs to come swift and direct.
I’m not ACAB. But I don’t consider the police to be heroes. They’re citizens that took a job they chose. They don’t deserve a medal or some special recognition just for pulling a paycheck in the job they picked. Instead, they should strive towards All Cops Are Good and just do their job without abusing their power.
There is some truth to what you're saying and cops aren't heroes by default, BUT those who act bravely in the face of danger can certainly be heroes...as can your average, every day citizen. If you watched the entire video, he accredits the demonstrations with holding police accountable and subsequently deaths are coming down.
IMO, "hero worship" is misplaced--teachers, police, fire, EMT, etc...those people contribute more than movie stars, musicians, athletes, etc.
Yep. Heroism is not unique to cops. They’re not special.
How many times have you had to confront violent people jacked up on booze or drugs in your job?
Not my problem. I didn’t choose that job. Are policeman getting drafted against their will now? You’re no hero for doing what you signed up for.
But it's a problem for all of us.
There are evil people out there who need to be stopped.
Part of the problem is that police training should be longer and much more in depth.
No, that's not my thought (well, it kind of is) that's my BiLs thoughts. Considering he taught both Army MP courses and Missouri Law Enforcement courses, I'll take his word for it.
He thought the police/LE certification course should be at least a year to cover everything thoroughly enough.
No, that's not my thought (well, it kind of is) that's my BiLs thoughts. Considering he taught both Army MP courses and Missouri Law Enforcement courses, I'll take his word for it.
He thought the police/LE certification course should be at least a year to cover everything thoroughly enough.
But then you go onto technical training and depending on the specialty could be weeks or over a year (it's that way in all branches).
So, let's say no one chooses that job. Then what happens?
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Yes, Yeoman "Class A" school was another 10 weeks, but while waiting for that, I was armed and boarding boats as an E-2 Seaman.
Also, as to the violence...
Yes, this is a dog, but it's also a very useful example. A police officer should not draw and fire their weapon unless there is an immediate, ongoing, violent threat to the community. Doing so should, at minimum, be grounds for removing from the street and sending back for re-training. And a large % of the time, should be grounds for immediate dismissal and punitive action such as fines or criminal charges.
Yes, this is a dog, but it's also a very useful example. A police officer should not draw and fire their weapon unless there is an immediate, ongoing, violent threat to the community. Doing so should, at minimum, be grounds for removing from the street and sending back for re-training. And a large % of the time, should be grounds for immediate dismissal and punitive action such as fines or criminal charges.
I guess I was hoping people would watch the video. That contains factual information.
A poster brought up Missouri. A search revealed that the Missouri State Highway Patrol academy is 6 months in length followed by months of a field training program and a probationary period. Starting pay is $58,000.
Add in the current toxic environment, the inability to find new applicants and to fill applicant classes and it's a pipedream to expect them to increase the length of training.
Add in the current toxic environment, the inability to find new applicants and to fill applicant classes and it's a pipedream to expect them to increase the length of training.
Right. Some people like that kind of work. And that’s why we pay them. That’s why people choose / take the job. In no way am I saying police aren’t an important part of society. But you’ll get no special recognition from me for making that choice. You’re free to feel differently but I’m going to draw the line if you start asking for a trophy for being a life long middle manager in HR.
Yet, you'll sit safely on your high horse and call out any and every police injustice you perceive.
A big part of the toxic environment is undertrained officers hitting the streets and interacting with the community. And many times, the field training is conducted by officers who really shouldn't be training new officers on the way they perform duties.
Again, my BiL's thoughts. He pushed his department, KCPD, to vet training officers and field trainers much more intensely, even giving temporary raises or better duty assignments for those who volunteer and meet stricter requirements.
He didn't do a bad job with that. Approaches the questions the right way, challenges assumptions. Pretty good for 2023.
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Well, no... I used to be in the Coast Guard which is a law enforcement agency.
We used to board commercial fishing boats from a 41' rescue boat with a crew of only FOUR people. The Boatswain had to stay on the boat so the boarding party was only three Coasties.
We're talking about LARGE fishing barges with dozens of crewmembers from the Philippines or some similar hellhole, and there were weapons everywhere.... knives, machetes, fish gaffes and of course, there were guns onboard, too.... but not laying around.
Anyway, little ol' me is keeping these people on the bow of the boat while the other two guys are down in the holds inspecting for fishery violations.
The captain and the crew would look at me like I would make good bait.
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I didn’t plan to deal in hyperbolic scenarios in this thread, but I already said we need to pay them more, train them more, etc. so we get good applicants instead of meatheads with low self esteem and an inferiority complex. If not, Judge Smails said it best…
I didn’t plan to deal in hyperbolic scenarios in this thread, but I already said we need to pay them more, train them more, etc. so we get good applicants instead of meatheads with low self esteem and an inferiority complex. If not, Judge Smails said it best…
Yet, you know nothing about police hiring standards, training standards, education....none of it. How fair of you.
Do I? Link?
You’re the one who came here begging for thoughts on your OP. I watched the propaganda video from your conservative bubble and gave them to you. But here you are whining about me giving you what you asked for.
The professor gave factual information. And offered open discussion. What facts can you offer? Or open discussion? Do you have any real thoughts on the video?
Your feelings are really hurt, aren’t they?
Just like the black person I’m sure you claim you know when discussions about race come up, I know a number cops (family and friends). I formed my opinions based on discussions with those people and my own personal interactions and what I see around me.
If you can’t handle the discussion, don’t come asking for it bub.
I provided plenty to discuss in post #8 about the video and my thoughts on general. Just because you’re seeing red and can’t continue the conversation isn’t my problem.
