A Season On The Mat

[Gusaford]

Last night I treated myself and reread parts of A Season on the Mat, the book on the Hawks' 1997 title run. A fun book to read this time of year. A few observations.

1. As great as they were in 1997, the Hawks as a team underperformed in the Big 10 tourney. Fullhart, Whitmer and Williams, each of whom would win NCAA titles that year, did not win Big 10 titles. Mena, who would be an NCAA finalist that year, was not a Big 10 finalist.

2. The refs used to call stalling a lot more. I did not recall this but in the NCAA finals between Mena and Guerrero, both wrestlers had a stall point awarded against him. Holy cow. There's an official who didn't take any crap. In his finals match, Fullhart got a stall call awarded in his favor with 10 seconds to go, which put the match into overtime and enabled Fullhart to eventually win. That also took serious guts for the official to call. Hard to imagine that ever happening now. Is that guy still officiating? Let's get him back.

3. Gable was constantly calling for the wrestlers to shoot more, even then. The book recounts a couple of great scenes of Gable screaming at Wes Hand to pull the trigger and fire off a shot.

4. Lastly, the gap between wrestlers in terms of talent was clearly greater 18 years ago than it is today. If you compare many of the scores, even in the finals, more guys were able to separate themselves from the pack back then. Now, if Kokesh beats Brown 7-3, we think Kokesh dominated.

 

[pablow]

Originally posted by Gusaford:
Last night I treated myself and reread parts of A Season on the Mat, the book on the Hawks' 1997 title run. A fun book to read this time of year. A few observations.

1. As great as they were in 1997, the Hawks as a team underperformed in the Big 10 tourney. Fullhart, Whitmer and Williams, each of whom would win NCAA titles that year, did not win Big 10 titles. Mena, who would be an NCAA finalist that year, was not a Big 10 finalist.

2. The refs used to call stalling a lot more. I did not recall this but in the NCAA finals between Mena and Guerrero, both wrestlers had a stall point awarded against him. Holy cow. There's an official who didn't take any crap. In his finals match, Fullhart got a stall call awarded in his favor with 10 seconds to go, which put the match into overtime and enabled Fullhart to eventually win. That also took serious guts for the official to call. Hard to imagine that ever happening now. Is that guy still officiating? Let's get him back.

3. Gable was constantly calling for the wrestlers to shoot more, even then. The book recounts a couple of great scenes of Gable screaming at Wes Hand to pull the trigger and fire off a shot.

4. Lastly, the gap between wrestlers in terms of talent was clearly greater 18 years ago than it is today. If you compare many of the scores, even in the finals, more guys were able to separate themselves from the pack back then. Now, if Kokesh beats Brown 7-3, we think Kokesh dominated.

If my memory is correct [somebody let me know] McIlravy gave up a late stalling point which put he and Bono into overtime. That call was gutty. And, I don't recall a negative reaction from the crowd.

 

[255]

Great points. I did a thread like this a month or so ago. In the book, Gable had many if not all the same issues we are concerned about with Brands and the team today. Guys not scoring in the first period, guys not able to get it going, two wrestlers consistently under-preforming, weight issues, Mac's injury, an unexpected loss to OSU, many lack luster performances in duals and tournaments and guys not seeming to be 100% engaged. In the book he even comments that he had many teams with these issues.

Gable was/is a once in a life time coach. Personally, I don't expect Brands to be a Gable. I know for a personal fact Brands is working as hard as he can to pull this all together and shares many of the concerns we talk about. It is a tired thing to say college wrestling has changed so much in parity since Gable but it really has. Today, there is no "Gable" out there.

I still believe in Brands 110% and the team. If it can be done he will do it. I believe it is foolish to even suggest a change in leadership of the team as I don't know of ANYONE out there who could do a better job without totally changing the culture of the Hawks and I don't that is needed either. Under-performing, they co-won the Big10. They are not up to the high standards of the fan base but they are a great team in many respects. Yes, we have had 3 years of the team crashing at the NCAA tournament but still in the top 4. none of us or Brands should lower our standards one bit however I think a recognition that the old days were far more difficult and not frustration free as we tend to remember them. We remember the titles, the best matches or the unusually great individuals the team had.

I say we continue to discuss the frustrations and concerns but also let things unfold. If the team places 4th again and the University starts a discussion of change then that would be an extremely foolish act. I do agree with some who believe some changes in the staff would help. Strength and conditioning is an area of concern that needs to be addressed.

Think about it though, Gable had an very unusual staff. the Gable/J.Rob combo was a perfect storm. He had a couple of conditioning coaches that were out of this world. I sometimes wonder if there is truly assistant coaching talent of that magnitude out there right now. I do not really know because I don't see any one team dominating in any of the three keys areas let alone all three. (Technique, conditioning and just plain coaching) There are teams that have high levels of these but have we not beaten most all of them? And if you do get that staff, I think it is harder to keep them together now than before. I don't have the answers here. Just thoughts.

 

[Gusaford]

Originally posted by 255:

Great points. I did a thread like this a month or so ago. In the book, Gable had many if not all the same issues we are concerned about with Brands and the team today. Guys not scoring in the first period, guys not able to get it going, two wrestlers consistently under-preforming, weight issues, Mac's injury, an unexpected loss to OSU, many lack luster performances in duals and tournaments and guys not seeming to be 100% engaged. In the book he even comments that he had many teams with these issues.

Gable was/is a once in a life time coach. Personally, I don't expect Brands to be a Gable. I know for a personal fact Brands is working as hard as he can to pull this all together and shares many of the concerns we talk about. It is a tired thing to say college wrestling has changed so much in parity since Gable but it really has. Today, there is no "Gable" out there.

I still believe in Brands 110% and the team. If it can be done he will do it. I believe it is foolish to even suggest a change in leadership of the team as I don't know of ANYONE out there who could do a better job without totally changing the culture of the Hawks and I don't that is needed either. Under-performing, they co-won the Big10. They are not up to the high standards of the fan base but they are a great team in many respects. Yes, we have had 3 years of the team crashing at the NCAA tournament but still in the top 4. none of us or Brands should lower our standards one bit however I think a recognition that the old days were far more difficult and not frustration free as we tend to remember them. We remember the titles, the best matches or the unusually great individuals the team had.

I say we continue to discuss the frustrations and concerns but also let things unfold. If the team places 4th again and the University starts a discussion of change then that would be an extremely foolish act. I do agree with some who believe some changes in the staff would help. Strength and conditioning is an area of concern that needs to be addressed.

Think about it though, Gable had an very unusual staff. the Gable/J.Rob combo was a perfect storm. He had a couple of conditioning coaches that were out of this world. I sometimes wonder if there is truly assistant coaching talent of that magnitude out there right now. I do not really know because I don't see any one team dominating in any of the three keys areas let alone all three. (Technique, conditioning and just plain coaching) There are teams that have high levels of these but have we not beaten most all of them? And if you do get that staff, I think it is harder to keep them together now than before. I don't have the answers here. Just thoughts.

I agree that as well spelled out in the book, Gable was dealing many of the same issues as Brands, certainly in kind if not to the same exact degree: guys not being as offensive as they should, guys not believing in themselves, injuries, underperformance, etc. Having McIravy, Ironside and Williams on the 1997 roster compensated for a lot of flaws, but even McIravy and Williams gave Gable plenty of agita that year. The difference is that Tom doesn't have those three big studs who lost a total of one match among them in 1997.

As for the Brands brothers, who are you going to get that is better than Tom and Terry? To be sure, some of their guys have underperformed, but over the past five/six years they have repeatedly gotten many of their wrestlers to reach heights those wrestlers had no business reaching. Their list of such wrestlers is very long, and I suspect it's a lot longer than the list any other coach can put together, including J Robinson or Cael. That's the measure of good coaching in my view. Their recruiting has sometimes been spotty, but we've been over that ground many times on this board.

 

[Jar-hawk]

Well said all. I hate to say it and will be heavily pilloried, but that's wrestling. Gable had to deal with the same issues we are all bitching about on this board. Guys sometimes are frustrating to watch, but Gable had a way to get the best out of most of them at the right time. He had his disappointments too.