A Southwest flight attendant suspected human trafficking. It was just a mixed-race family flying to a funeral

[alaskanseminole]

As long as the questioning was respectful the mom has no beef and the flight attendant is certainly in the clear. The mother can talk all she wants about them being exhausted and upset over their circumstances but there's no way for the FA to know that and even if told, no way to verify it.

Would she have made the same call were the mother and daughter the same race? *shrug* Who knows.

All depends on whether the behavior alone was suspect enough...possibly it was the combination of all circumstances. Sad the mother couldn't have been more supportive, "I understand that was likely a difficult call, ma'am, but I appreciate you looking out for my daughter's well being or any young girl for that matter."

Again, flight attendant looking out for a young girl, a black girl too. With the information we have so far, I say kudos.

 

[IACub]

Yep. This training and acting on it is extremely important.

Activate operation Blue Lightning.

 

[IACub]

All depends on whether the behavior alone was suspect enough...possibly it was the combination of all circumstances. Sad the mother couldn't have been more supportive, "I understand that was likely a difficult call, ma'am, but I appreciate you looking out for my daughter's well being or any young girl for that matter."

Again, flight attendant looking out for a young girl, a black girl too. With the information we have so far, I say kudos.

Totally agree that the flight attendant reacted properly. What bothers me is the lack of any apology, explanation, or any sort of follow up from Southwest. Just a 911 call and a f**k you.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Can anyone post an actual documented example of human trafficking working in the way this flight attendant suspected? I’m wondering if some people are perhaps a bit too paranoid and misinformed about such things.

Heroic Flight Attendant Rescues Teenage Human Trafficking Victim

A heroic flight attendant is helping change the way her industry trains its employees, as lessons learned from that flight are being shared with flight attendants everywhere.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Titus Andronicus]

So they put the flight attendants through a little training class on how to spot human trafficking? and a year or so later, after encountering thousands of passengers of all colors and in all sorts of combinations of race and ethnicity, this is the situation that jumps out at her? The behavior of the passengers does not even sound odd to me and that is what they are attempting to hang this on.

Everyone wants to be a hero and no one considers that they could wind up being just a regular arsehole.

 

[alaskanseminole]

So they put the flight attendants through a little training class on how to spot human trafficking? and a year or so later, after encountering thousands of passengers of all colors and in all sorts of combinations of race and ethnicity, this is the case that jumps out at her? The behavior of the passengers does not even sound odd to me and that is what they are attempting to hang this on.

Everyone wants to be a hero and no one considers that they could wind up being just a regular arsehole.

Good thing is the message has been sent...mind your own damn business. The flight attendants got the message loud and clear as have traffickers.

 

[Titus Andronicus]

Good thing is the message has been sent...mind your own damn business. The flight attendants got the message loud and clear as have traffickers.

They could have figured out the truth easily by checking various data bases on the mother/daughter travelers, and since it was a big deal and worth investigation, the pilot himself could have glad-handed people in that part of the plane paying particular to the little girl. A lot of background would have come out simply through chit chat. Were they traveling on a bereavement fare? Likely, they were and this would have explained a lot in itself.

Getting this wrong became a problem and that needn't have happened.

 

[hawkifann]

That's a really bad situation for everyone involved. It's sad that racial profiling and human trafficking are common enough that it's not really that surprised that a situation like this could happen. Had the flight attendant been correct about the situation, she'd be a hero.

Agreed, this is a sad case. If there are legitimate reasons to suspect trafficking, I want flight attendants to say something……but I also know a lot of mixed-race families, whether by marriage or adoptions. I’d be curious as to the ”strange” behavior. Maybe it really was strange, but obviously the flight attendant read this one wrong.

 

[hawkifann]

Good thing is the message has been sent...mind your own damn business. The flight attendants got the message loud and clear as have traffickers.

Exactly. If that’s the ultimate outcome of this case, we’ve failed.

The failure that I see here so far is Southwest Airlines. If the FA had concerns, I’m glad she voiced them. It sucks for the mom & daughter, but this could have been handled better by Southwest. They could have potentially done a fair amount of research while the plane was still in the air.

 

[Tfxchawk]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you've never been racially profiled or wrongfully accused of anything by someone in authority.

You need to revisit your understanding of 'Karen'.

Right? We don't protect young black girls in this country. Jesus flight attendant get with the program.

Do we think that Brian guy is actually dead or not? The one that killed his pretty blinded white girlfriend?

 

[NoleATL]

from what I'm seeing in the picture they look nothing alike

They do have the same forehead.

 

[NoleATL]

Flight attendants receive training on recognizing human trafficking situations and a lot of emphasis is placed on it. If these 2 fit the profile of what FAs are taught, then the FA did absolutely nothing wrong. Sit the mother down in a seminar on human trafficking and the training FAs go through and hopefully she will see that not every instance of profiling (racial or otherwise) is a bad thing and can lead to good outcomes.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Flight attendants receive training on recognizing human trafficking situations and a lot of emphasis is placed on it. If these 2 fit the profile of what FAs are taught, then the FA did absolutely nothing wrong. Sit the mother down in a seminar on human trafficking and the training FAs go through and hopefully she will see that not every instance of profiling (racial or otherwise) is a bad thing and can lead to good outcomes.

If the flight attendants are trained to report suspicious circumstances in this regard they're going to make mistakes....

I'd rather have a few mistakes if in the end it saves a few kids from sex trafficking ect.....people aren't perfect but if we make it less likely that suspicious activity gets reported because of the mistakes....ultimately that's a bad thing IMO.

 

[seminole97]

The behavior of the passengers does not even sound odd to me and that is what they are attempting to hang this on.

Please provide your training, experience and expertise on human trafficking to explain why your opinion on this subject is noteworthy.

 

[NoleATL]

If the flight attendants are trained to report suspicious circumstances in this regard they're going to make mistakes....

I'd rather have a few mistakes if in the end it saves a few kids from sex trafficking ect.....people aren't perfect but if we make it less likely that suspicious activity gets reported because of the mistakes....ultimately that's a bad thing IMO.

Totally agree. And, if she went 100% according to the training as far as what to look for, SHE didn't make a mistake.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Totally agree. And, if she went 100% according to the training as far as what to look for, SHE didn't make a mistake.

Agree....I have to say I understand the Mom being upset, she was basically accused of something heinous but hopefully she can come to understand that it was a mistake and maybe down the road another kid get's saved.

 

[NoleATL]

Agree....I have to say I understand the Mom being upset, she was basically accused of something heinous but hopefully she can come to understand that it was a mistake and maybe down the road another kid get's saved.

Perhaps there could be better training on what to say, how to act, etc, when confronting a potential trafficking situation.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Exactly. If that’s the ultimate outcome of this case, we’ve failed.

The failure that I see here so far is Southwest Airlines. If the FA had concerns, I’m glad she voiced them. It sucks for the mom & daughter, but this could have been handled better by Southwest. They could have potentially done a fair amount of research while the plane was still in the air.

I guess it depends on at what point the FA reported it. Maybe she waffled back and forth, I know I would. One thing I'd venture to say was true, she wasn't out to get the mom, scare the girl, or just be some butthole Karen.

If I'm SW airlines, I'm using this as a training opportunity to iron out wrinkles in the processes of identifying potential trafficking. I don't think SW owes the woman an apology, but certainly some dadgum sympathy and maybe reach out with some free stuff to smooth things over. It's just hard for me (without more information) to be upset at a woman for looking out for the wellbeing of a young black girl.

 

[NoleATL]

I don't think SW owes the woman an apology

I see no reason for them to not apologize for the situation while explaining why they did it...

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Perhaps there could be better training on what to say, how to act, etc, when confronting a potential trafficking situation.

Good point...

Not sure how you sugarcoat the accusation but a attempt should be made..

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

I see no reason for them to not apologize for the situation while explaining why they did it...

True....I just hope they don't put pressure on the FA's to not report it. Kind of a difficult needle to thread here.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I see no reason for them to not apologize for the situation while explaining why they did it...

Again, had the FA been right she's be lauded a hero. Why apologize for that? ...or are you saying apologize for the how, but not the why? Probably a game of verbal semantics like, "I'm sorry you're upset." vs "I'm sorry I upset you."

 

[SB_SB]

Whether the flight attendant's actions were right or wrong shouldn't be based on how upset the mom and daughter were. Most people are going to be upset when they're accused of something, especially in a public area.

 

[Titus Andronicus]

Please provide your training, experience and expertise on human trafficking to explain why your opinion on this subject is noteworthy.

Lots of time spent in airports, on airplanes, in shopping malls, sitting in traffic looking around, and walking the streets of NYC during rush hour with nothing to do other than to watch those around me. Spend a little time doing this and you will notice that the mix of folks is different than what was extant 30-40 years back ... a lot different. A white woman traveling with a mixed-race child is not even noticed any more, particularly if the white woman is speaking California-style English.

They called America a "Melting Pot" when I was in high school, and I am reminded of that perspective often when I am out and about.

........................................................

This was a clear over reaction in my view and reminds me of the time our (first day on the job) mail room clerk called in an anthrax alert when he spotted sugar on the floor in our coffee room. He called the NYC police department without even alerting anyone in our office. The entire 20 story office building was locked down for about ten hours and they even showed our building on CNBC.

 

[Hawki97]

Lots of time spent in airports, on airplanes, in shopping malls, sitting in traffic looking around, and walking the streets of NYC during rush hour with nothing to do other than to watch those around me. Spend a little time doing this and you will notice that the mix of folks is different than what was extant 30-40 years back ... a lot different. A white woman traveling with a mixed-race child is not even noticed any more, particularly if the white woman is speaking California-style English.

They called America a "Melting Pot" when I was in high school, and I am reminded of that perspective often when I am out and about.

........................................................

This was a clear over reaction in my view and reminds me of the time our (first day on the job) mail room clerk called in an anthrax alert when he spotted sugar on the floor in our coffee room. He called the NYC police department without even alerting anyone in our office. The entire 20 story office building was locked down for about ten hours and they even showed our building on CNBC.

From the story, these are the indicators that made the FA report:

"But a flight attendant thought MacCarthy's actions were suspicious, according to a police report. The attendant, who is not named in the report, said MacCarthy and her daughter were the last passengers to board the plane, and MacCarthy was "demanding" she sit next to her daughter. The flight attendant also alleged that MacCarthy did not speak to her daughter during the flight and found it "odd" that she did not allow the girl speak to the flight crew, the report states. So the flight attendant wanted airline management to follow up with MacCarthy when the plane landed."

No mention of melting pot, no mention of mixed-race, no mention of race in general. Bummer too, because it would make her social media victim campaign so much more impactful.

 

[Titus Andronicus]

From the story, these are the indicators that made the FA report:

"But a flight attendant thought MacCarthy's actions were suspicious, according to a police report. The attendant, who is not named in the report, said MacCarthy and her daughter were the last passengers to board the plane, and MacCarthy was "demanding" she sit next to her daughter. The flight attendant also alleged that MacCarthy did not speak to her daughter during the flight and found it "odd" that she did not allow the girl speak to the flight crew, the report states. So the flight attendant wanted airline management to follow up with MacCarthy when the plane landed."

No mention of a melting pot, no mention of mixed-race, no mention of race in general. Bummer too, because it would make her social media victim campaign so much more impactful.

Each of those "indicators" is lame. The reasons for this detention lie elsewhere. Allow me to note that the act of "Making demands" is a giveaway of self-assuredness, and an expectation of being treated well. She was not attempting to hide anything. She was rather, drawing attention to herself. Sex Traffickers would (I think) make more of an attempt to blend in and not draw attention to themselves.

With the record number of flight cancellations lately, my guess is that demanding passengers are having a hard time of it ... exhaustion, discomfort, anger at missing connections or simply from sitting around on planes and in airports for endless hours makes everyone angry and demanding. An FA who is oblivious to what is going on in air travel at the present time is not particularly worth what she is being paid.

That FA managed to waste a lot of other peoples' time, along with aggravating at least two paying customers.

 

[hawkifann]

If the flight attendants are trained to report suspicious circumstances in this regard they're going to make mistakes....

I'd rather have a few mistakes if in the end it saves a few kids from sex trafficking ect.....people aren't perfect but if we make it less likely that suspicious activity gets reported because of the mistakes....ultimately that's a bad thing IMO.

I’d be careful to call these ”mistakes” if the flight attendant followed training guidelines. I manage a monitoring function at work and some of that monitoring leads to investigations - some things that get escalated for investigation turn out to be no big deal, but that doesn’t mean that the person who elevated it made a mistake.

It gets back to the problem of false positive vs. false negative. For any given problem, an evaluation has to be made about which is more harmful - falsely identifying something as bad or falsely identifying something as fine/good. With flight attendants being asked to watch for characteristics that could indicate child trafficking, I’d argue that the false negative (actual trafficker not identified by the flight attendant) carries far more risk to society than a false positive (a case like the OP where a parent is questioned about trafficking, but proves not to be).

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

I’d be careful to call these ”mistakes” if the flight attendant followed training guidelines. I manage a monitoring function at work and some of that monitoring leads to investigations - some things that get escalated for investigation turn out to be no big deal, but that doesn’t mean that the person who elevated it made a mistake.

It gets back to the problem of false positive vs. false negative. For any given problem, an evaluation has to be made about which is more harmful - falsely identifying something as bad or falsely identifying something as fine/good. With flight attendants being asked to watch for characteristics that could indicate child trafficking, I’d argue that the false negative (actual trafficker not identified by the flight attendant) carries far more risk to society than a false positive (a case like the OP where a parent is questioned about trafficking, but proves not to be).

I agree it probably shouldn’t be termed a “mistake”. You’d like to keep false accusations to a minimum though just to keep scrutiny off the process

 

[doughuddl2]

Seems like if airlines can figure out who's being trafficked it should happen before their planes are boarded, no?

No. Wow! You didn't read any of the story and what they look for when they board the plane and their actions.

 

[doughuddl2]

We can shame them if their criteria is different for mixed race families.
Nothing she described sounded weird at all.

You got one side of the story, offended Karen.

 

[doughuddl2]

Lol at thinking your story is similar

Lol at you for thinking there not.

 

[doughuddl2]

Lots of time spent in airports, on airplanes, in shopping malls, sitting in traffic looking around, and walking the streets of NYC during rush hour with nothing to do other than to watch those around me. Spend a little time doing this and you will notice that the mix of folks is different than what was extant 30-40 years back ... a lot different. A white woman traveling with a mixed-race child is not even noticed any more, particularly if the white woman is speaking California-style English.

They called America a "Melting Pot" when I was in high school, and I am reminded of that perspective often when I am out and about.

........................................................

This was a clear over reaction in my view and reminds me of the time our (first day on the job) mail room clerk called in an anthrax alert when he spotted sugar on the floor in our coffee room. He called the NYC police department without even alerting anyone in our office. The entire 20 story office building was locked down for about ten hours and they even showed our building on CNBC.

So you have none.

You and Karen are doing all the over reacting.

 

[hawkifann]

I agree it probably shouldn’t be termed a “mistake”. You’d like to keep false accusations to a minimum though just to keep scrutiny off the process

And also to avoid the “boy who cried wolf” scenario.

I think the examples laid out make sense in a trafficking scenario, but yet I think I’ve also done the same things when traveling with my own kids.

• Insist to sit with child: The trafficker isn’t going to want the child out of their control to potentially report the trafficking. The parent may need to tend to certain needs the kid has or, if the child is too young to sit alone, the parent will absolutely want to sit next to the child. It’s easy when the kid is young, as nobody wants to be sitting with an unattended 5yo.
• Not talking to the child: The trafficker may just have a locked-in control relationship over the kid. A parent may just be sick of the child’s crap that day (been there).
• Not letting child speak: Again, a trafficker will want to control any messaging. The parent may speak for the child generally anyway.
• Last to get on the plane: This is the weakest one, but I’m sure their guidance ties this in with other behaviors. I could see a trafficker wanting as little interaction with flight crew as possible….and yet every flight has someone who gets on last.

I’d be curious what kind of guidance they’re given overall, but it’s important to remember that this training is to identify a very real (albeit rare) situation of serious harm, so the customer service angle would only play so far into this. Any accusations or escalations for investigation are going to be uncomfortable and some portion of them will absolutely not be trafficking situations.

If Southwest assigned me the task of building a process for this, I’d want a multi-tiered approach, if at all possible, prior to confronting the individual. The airplane passenger is effectively a captive for the length of the flight - there’s nowhere for that person to go, which means there’s time for additional checking. The airlines have the manifests. I’d want a scenario where the FA can report (maybe through the captain, maybe separately) back to the airline that there are concerns about a woman, young girl pair sitting in whatever seats they’re in. The airline can cross check the names of the passengers and probably has security teams that could at least do some quick public records searches to see if they match as parent/child - if there are any images as a part of this (passport or government ID photos, for instance), perhaps these can be made viewable by the FA as an attempt to positively ID. If these types of efforts don’t clear things up, then pull the passengers aside after landing for additional questioning.

A process like this would allow the FAs to report things that catch their attention and also allow at least a basic level vetting of the report prior to pulling someone out. Maybe that’s in place at Southwest today and it didn’t go far enough to clear this woman and her daughter or maybe that’s the next step of maturity. I would just think that some of these false positives could be identified as such before the passenger is even aware of the situation, which would allow them to carry on and never know there was even a flag thrown.

 

[hawkifann]

No. Wow! You didn't read any of the story and what they look for when they board the plane and their actions.

Maybe the airlines just need to offer really low “child trafficking” fares so that they can identify the proper cases. Traffickers want to minimize costs as much as anyone else.

 

[hawkifann]

Lots of time spent in airports, on airplanes, in shopping malls, sitting in traffic looking around, and walking the streets of NYC during rush hour with nothing to do other than to watch those around me. Spend a little time doing this and you will notice that the mix of folks is different than what was extant 30-40 years back ... a lot different. A white woman traveling with a mixed-race child is not even noticed any more, particularly if the white woman is speaking California-style English.

They called America a "Melting Pot" when I was in high school, and I am reminded of that perspective often when I am out and about.

........................................................

This was a clear over reaction in my view and reminds me of the time our (first day on the job) mail room clerk called in an anthrax alert when he spotted sugar on the floor in our coffee room. He called the NYC police department without even alerting anyone in our office. The entire 20 story office building was locked down for about ten hours and they even showed our building on CNBC.

The question of over-reaction really comes down, as I pointed out earlier, to which is worse - a false positive or a false negative?

If the ideal state is to not have any legitimate travelers questioned about potential trafficking (minimizing/eliminating false positives), then we’d put a huge burden on the report side and err on the side of letting suspicions slide because they can’t be proven.

If the ideal state is to do our absolute best to identify potential traffickers (minimizing false negatives), then there are going to be some times where a passenger is suspected and then ultimately found not to be involved in trafficking (OP example).

Traffickers don’t exactly wear labels and hand out business cards, so in order to identify them, you do have to look at behaviors and squishy criteria. I don’t know where I’d draw the line at an “ok” false positive rate, but I do think a few allegations that prove to be unsubstantiated are worth hauling in a couple child traffickers.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

And also to avoid the “boy who cried wolf” scenario.

I think the examples laid out make sense in a trafficking scenario, but yet I think I’ve also done the same things when traveling with my own kids.

• Insist to sit with child: The trafficker isn’t going to want the child out of their control to potentially report the trafficking. The parent may need to tend to certain needs the kid has or, if the child is too young to sit alone, the parent will absolutely want to sit next to the child. It’s easy when the kid is young, as nobody wants to be sitting with an unattended 5yo.
• Not talking to the child: The trafficker may just have a locked-in control relationship over the kid. A parent may just be sick of the child’s crap that day (been there).
• Not letting child speak: Again, a trafficker will want to control any messaging. The parent may speak for the child generally anyway.
• Last to get on the plane: This is the weakest one, but I’m sure their guidance ties this in with other behaviors. I could see a trafficker wanting as little interaction with flight crew as possible….and yet every flight has someone who gets on last.

I’d be curious what kind of guidance they’re given overall, but it’s important to remember that this training is to identify a very real (albeit rare) situation of serious harm, so the customer service angle would only play so far into this. Any accusations or escalations for investigation are going to be uncomfortable and some portion of them will absolutely not be trafficking situations.

If Southwest assigned me the task of building a process for this, I’d want a multi-tiered approach, if at all possible, prior to confronting the individual. The airplane passenger is effectively a captive for the length of the flight - there’s nowhere for that person to go, which means there’s time for additional checking. The airlines have the manifests. I’d want a scenario where the FA can report (maybe through the captain, maybe separately) back to the airline that there are concerns about a woman, young girl pair sitting in whatever seats they’re in. The airline can cross check the names of the passengers and probably has security teams that could at least do some quick public records searches to see if they match as parent/child - if there are any images as a part of this (passport or government ID photos, for instance), perhaps these can be made viewable by the FA as an attempt to positively ID. If these types of efforts don’t clear things up, then pull the passengers aside after landing for additional questioning.

A process like this would allow the FAs to report things that catch their attention and also allow at least a basic level vetting of the report prior to pulling someone out. Maybe that’s in place at Southwest today and it didn’t go far enough to clear this woman and her daughter or maybe that’s the next step of maturity. I would just think that some of these false positives could be identified as such before the passenger is even aware of the situation, which would allow them to carry on and never know there was even a flag thrown.

Southwest needs to hire you

 

[hawkifann]

Southwest needs to hire you

There’s a very high likelihood I know just enough to cause legal problems and break stuff.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Southwest needs to hire you

I agree! Hired!

 

[alaskanseminole]

Mother who was accused by Southwest of trafficking her biracial daughter files federal discrimination suit

A white mother who was suspected of trafficking her biracial daughter in October 2021 by Southwest Airlines employees has filed a racial discrimination suit against the company.

www.yahoo.com

Mother who was accused by Southwest of trafficking her biracial daughter files federal discrimination suit​

A white mother who was suspected of trafficking her biracial daughter in October 2021 by Southwest Airlines employees has filed a racial discrimination suit against the company.

Mary MacCarthy was traveling to Denver from Los Angeles with her 10-year-old daughter to attend her brother's funeral, she told NBC News nearly two years ago. Upon landing in Denver, MacCarthy and her daughter were confronted by police officers because a flight attendant suspected her of potential human trafficking.

Mary MacCarthy and her daughter Moira. (Courtesy Mary MacCarthy)

A federal lawsuit filed Thursday in the District Court of Colorado accused Southwest Airlines of racial discrimination. MacCarthy accused the airline staff of flagging her as suspicious "based on a racist assumption about a mixed‐race family."

"The officers began questioning Ms. MacCarthy and made it clear that they were given the racially charged information that Ms. MacCarthy’s daughter was possibly being trafficked by her simply because Ms. MacCarthy is White and her daughter is Black," the lawsuit said.

David Lane, the attorney representing MacCarthy, said that the suit is designed to bring accountability and to have the airline re-examine its own training. He said that the use of racial profiling in this case has attempted to address a serious crime with a "stereotypical, easy formula."

"Just as the police are constitutionally not permitted to stop-and-frisk young men of color based upon their race, corporate America is similarly not permitted to resort to such profiling in using law enforcement to stop and question racially diverse families simply based upon their divergent races, which is what Southwest did," Lane said in a statement.

MacCarthy said that her daughter broke down in tears during the questioning and remains traumatized by the incident almost two years later. In an interview in 2021, MacCarthy said her daughter was "sobbing" throughout the encounter.

“She unfortunately already has had charged encounters with police. Any kid’s going to be scared in a situation like this,” MacCarthy said.

According to a police report, the flight attendant said she flagged the family as suspicious because they were the last to board the plane and asked other passengers to change seats so they could sit together. The flight attendant didn’t see the mother and daughter speak on the plane and claimed MacCarthy told her daughter not to talk to the flight crew, the report said.

MacCarthy denied the claims that she and her daughter didn’t talk on the flight or that she prohibited her daughter from speaking to the flight crew. She also said she was called 10 days after the incident by a human trafficking unit investigator from the Denver Police Department.

The incident was closed as “unfounded” with no further action necessary, according to the police report.
Southwest Airlines declined to comment on the litigation Sunday. The company said in 2021 that it was conducting a review of the incident, but the airline did not answer questions as to the results of its review on Sunday.

The lawsuit demands a jury trial, attorney costs and fees, as well as damages that will be established during trial.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

I totally understand this mother being upset.

Unfortunately something like this will probably inhibit flight attendants reporting something like this when their antenna go up and it's a real case...