That religious crap should be expressed in church on Sunday morning. Not on some wrestling podcast.
No different than some guys here getting worked up when someone expresses a political POV.
Religion and politics fall under the same umbrella.
Aaron Nagao in the Portal
- Thread starter Sdwrestler_20
- Start date
No different than some guys here getting worked up when someone expresses a political POV.
Religion and politics fall under the same umbrella.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but missing on Nagao should not be considered as a make or break to Iowa's upcoming year. Yes, he got hot at the end of the year and rode RBY like a pony. Is he really that much of an upgrade over a healthy Teske? Was he just a bit worried that the spot was not going to be just handed over to him? He did lose to Cannon (Fix 2x) and several of his wins (Byrd) were in OT. He also missed several mid season matches so who knows how that record would have looked like? A 2nd at the Big Ten's and 5th at Nationals is certainly impressive. I just wonder if that was due to a hot streak or improvement. Good for him - he struck gold while the iron was hot.
Agreed. Outside of Spencer Lee, Iowa hasn’t had memorable stars that can awestruck a recruit if they see them on a visit.
I doubt many of them know who Morningstar or Telford are.
They know names like Nolf, Retherford, and Nickal.
We have guys like that but their names are Ironsides, Williams, and Mcllravy. Names decades before Instagram came along.
It's interesting that no matter the sport, you have a knack of proving complete lack of knowledge.
I'm still with Tom and will be until he decides. You really believe you know more about wrestling and specifically Iowa wrestling than Tom?
Kids do want to wrestle in the best facilities and in front of the largest crowds. Money has just been speaking louder in the wrestling world for awhile now. A chance to be paid after college to do what you love was speaking through the loudest bullhorn at Penn State. Everyone wants that job they love, the girl they love, the car they love, the house they love and on and on. Penn State was the path to the job they loved.
Penn State will stop Penn State and the rest better be ready to step up. I think Iowa, tOSU, and Michigan are staying close as they can. Shiny objects tarnish with time and the sport of wrestling is going to even out again soon. We don't need David Taylor to even the playing field.
I'm still with Tom and will be until he decides. You really believe you know more about wrestling and specifically Iowa wrestling than Tom?
Kids do want to wrestle in the best facilities and in front of the largest crowds. Money has just been speaking louder in the wrestling world for awhile now. A chance to be paid after college to do what you love was speaking through the loudest bullhorn at Penn State. Everyone wants that job they love, the girl they love, the car they love, the house they love and on and on. Penn State was the path to the job they loved.
Penn State will stop Penn State and the rest better be ready to step up. I think Iowa, tOSU, and Michigan are staying close as they can. Shiny objects tarnish with time and the sport of wrestling is going to even out again soon. We don't need David Taylor to even the playing field.
He beat Mendez 5-0 in March when everyone is supposedly peaking. Him and Mendez have 3 years left.
Mendez was an elite blue chip recruit.
So in my mind, Penn st nabbed an even more elite recruit than a Mendez who’s proven himself in March and has the same remaining years of eligibility left as Mendez. That’s huge.
Yep, you are correct. There is NO correlation between the recruiting level and the amount of wins PSU has. I mean, the top 10 recruits for PSU(Taylor, Ruth, Wright, Retherford, Nickal, RBY, Lee, Starocci and Brooks) don't go undefeated multiple seasons and run away as prohibitive favorites. That simply CAN NOT have anything to do with why they win at a much higher rate. I mean I did a stat earlier where the average Iowa recruit for last season was 30.XX and the PSU recruit was 5.XX, but why would that matter....
Meanwhile, Iowa has had plenty of 30ish or so ranked kids that are "produced" to be "capable" of winning it. But, they fall SOOO far short by having their highest ranked recruits go 1st,1st,1st,6th or 3rd, 4th, 2nd, 4th or 7th,4th,2nd,5th.
Again, the fact that PSU has more top 10 recruits on this season's roster than Iowa has had under Brands CAN NOT have anything to do with it either...
Mind you, I STILL said PSU would almost certainly have produced more Champs if both Iowa and PSU had the same number of high end recruits. However, you are a COMPLETE MORON if you do not think Iowa's Individual Titles would be considerably higher with the same level of recruits over that same timeframe...
put him on ignore and quit responding to him….. every time you respond those of us that ignored him years ago have to still see it…… I promise you ….. you will not ever get through to him arguing with him on a message board
the clutter these PSU trolls create on here is getting tiresome…..
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Teske has proven over multiple seasons he is not AA level. Nagao proved he is and beat some good wrestlers along the way plus made RBY work pretty hard. It's a lot better odds that Nagao is really what he showed last year than Teske being something he has never showed.
Higher? Sure, maybe they have a couple more. But Iowa's had top 10 recruits and most of them didn't win titles whereas most of of PSU's top recruits win titles. It's recruiting AND coaching, and when you de-emphasize the coaching aspect, you fail to understand why they're never going to catch up on the recruiting trail if that isn't addressed.
The first step to fixing this is producing with the elite recruits they do get. That means Ayala, Chittum, Arnold, and Kueter (if he wrestles) have to win titles. Woods and Cass need to win next year. Give recruits a reason to believe in your program.
Here is a better way to look at it and see if you can honestly, maintaining integrity, answer if recruiting matters:
Switch rosters for every season from 2011 until now. How many NCAA Team Titles do you think each team has? How many Individual Titles?
Again, PSU IS doing more than just recruiting. It is just the most GLARING difference. PSU is still doing enough of the other things that I feel confident saying they would still be the #1 team over that timespan(meaning if the recruiting was equal). They ARE the best overall team and I wouldn't debate otherwise. However, the Individual Titles argument is LAME. PSU has so many more because they have had so much more talent.
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Covid year senior who had yet to be an AA vs a guy who placed 5th as a RS Frosh.
If you can't see which one is better I'm but sure what to tell you.
Who are their top 10's that have finished their careers and didn't produce?
Metcalf went 1,2,1 and got cheated out of a year.
I don't remember if Borschel was quite top 10, but he won a title.
Lee went 1,1,1,6
Kemerer went 4,3,2,4
Warner went 7,4,2,5
Who else is there even that finished their career with Iowa so far?
Did I say he wasn't better? I'm just quite frankly embarrassed for Iowa Wrestling and specifically its fans for losing their collective sh$t over someone who finished 5th at the NCAAs.
Covid year senior who had yet to be an AA vs a guy who placed 5th as a RS Frosh.
If you can't see which one is better I'm but sure what to tell you.
"maintaining integrity" lol you are such an arrogant prick
and more importantly, wrong.
you act like they were runaway favorites every year. wrong! they were in heated battles most years and won because they elevated at the tournament.
switch the rosters and iowa wins titles, but certainly not 11 and they don't win 30+ individual titles. and AGAIN, you ignore that they recruit so well because they coach so well.
2/5 you listed didn't win titles lol that's my whole point. add gilman and marinelli. and metcalf and borschel were almost 15 years ago.
Cass was top 15, so pretty close. Kennedy was top 10 and he's off to a bad start.
so in short, for every 5 elite recruits iowa gets, maybe 1 wins a title. PSU is the reverse. for every 5 they get, 4 win titles.
Aside from the obvious part where recruiting is a huge part of the game. Look at Football? I see what you mean though. But if we talked the same way about say football I think the conversation would be different since the numbers allow you to overcome a wash easier if recruiting is on point.
In wrestling every recruiting matters more to the overall team success because a miss or injury issue affects 1/10 of your lineup. Lose 2 top starters on one or both sides of the ball total and it can be handled if the starter wasn't a person who was hard to replace.
Lose a finalist in wrestling and you lost a lot of team points for the next championship.
I checked PSU's wins, about three were close, OSU, tOSU, and Minnesota I believe. 3 were solid wins but a misstep here and there and others would have a shot and 4 were easy wins.
here's a better way to look at it:
tOSU has recruited almost as well as PSU. They've had several #1 ranked classes and consistently land top 10 P4P recruits. And guess what? They have 1 title to show for it. And the 1 title was the year PSU redshirted a bunch of their best guys. Why? Because they don't develop like PSU.
You keep saying that I'm saying "recruiting doesn't matter." You're either stupid or being disingenuous because I'm pretty clear that it does. But PSU also is better at coaching. And you can't expect to catch them on the trail if that doesn't change.
All part of the payback for your football fans booing our injured players at Kinnick Stadium in 2021. The ultimate payback will be at Beaver Stadium on September 23, 2023. A date that will live in infamy.
True, and the year they thought they had it they were neck and neck with PSU and Bo pulled that crazy move , pinning Martin and sealing the championship. So they were still right in it on OSU's other year.
My argument was over Individual Titles often being runaways. How many true upsets did PSU guys pull of when they won their titles? Molinaro, Taylor(2x), Ruth(3x), Retherford(3x), Nolf(3x), Starocci(2of3), Brooks(3x) were all solid to prohibitive favorites going into the Tournament. Megaludis won it as the 3 seed with both the 2nd and 3rd seeds getting upset before him. Wright was undefeated the year he beat Kilgore. Kokesh lost to Wilps the year Brown won it as the 2 seed. Lee and Starocci beat their Iowa opponents in OT as the 2 seeds, but did also have more than 1 win against those guys in their careers. Joseph is probably the 1 guy(even though he was still the 3 seed when he did it) who stepped it up big time to beat IMAR both times in the Finals.
Other than Wright the one funky year, all the PSU champs came from the top 3 seeds except Hall(5 seed) and a LOT were 1 seeds. Yes, they still produced at an AMAZING rate, but "elevated" is a term you used that very loosely fits...
To be fair fair you asked is it really that big of a difference between Nagao and Teske. He answered. I think it was a fair response. Nagao has much better upside and is already a mid range AA with presumptively the ability to climb higher as he continues to progress.
I think Iowa fans are losing their “shit” over the 4 top five recruits, and three solid transfers psu has pulled in this year. Nagao represented our lighthouse in the distance while we navigated these choppy waters. It’s been quiet on the western front when all we hear is top athlete after top athlete head east to our enemies doorstep.
Nagao isn’t the sole reason for panic, but he is the most recent and brightest light we’ve seen that was supposedly very interested in us. I think most of us here wanted good news. We didn’t get it.
Couple this off-season with Spencer and Reals lost a month ago and it’s been a trying month plus, for a very passionate and prideful fan base. Feathers have been ruffled. The response hasn’t been great, but it’s what I’ve come to expect when things do poorly.
If you actually read my responses EVERY time I say that PSU is also better at coaching.
As far as tOSU goes, that is about as red herring as it gets. tOSU is NOT Iowa. I think Ryan is a hell of a guy, but that coaching staff can't sniff Iowa's jockstraps. Once Rosselli left they were crushed and Dlagnev leaving ended any chances.
It's the same tired old BS: "but..but..recruiting" is your exact quote. You want to call me "stupid" or disengenuous" for arguing over recruiting being the biggest difference, when you use that response? Two things to that, Sanderson started off recruiting that well at ISU RIGHT AWAY. He had yet to even prove he had the great coaching staff he has shown to have and STILL recruited that well basically every year since.
Here is something we can see if we can atleast agree upon:
1.) PSU is winning so many NCAA Titles because they have the best overall coaching staff at nearly every facet.
2.) PSU has so many more Individual Titles than Iowa because they have had so much more ridiculously high end talent than Iowa.
Is it possible that BOTH can be true?
1) Wright got pinned by Wilps in the all star match the year he beat Kilgore. That was a big time upset. Kilgore had mauled everybody that year. Then you have Nickal upsetting Dean right after getting beat by Martin at big tens, Lee and Starocci reversing convincing losses from a week earlier (unbelievably disingenuous to count Starocci's win over a one-armed Kemerer the next year as if that proved the finals match wasn't a huge upset. He got dominated a week before). Ruth avenged his loss to Dean earlier in the season.
2) You're ignoring that most of those guys were not destroying everybody when they came out. DT lost to DSJ and Conrad Polz in freestyle after his redshirt year. Retherford was in OT matches with Ashnault and had other close high school matches. Brooks got beat soundly by Ryan Christenson. Nickal by McNally. Joseph got teched at fargo by Isaiah White.
PSU made those guys transcendent. They made them the "runaways" that you try to handwave away.
#1 is true. There is no reason to believe #2 is true. Proportionally, if you even out the recruiting PSU is still winning double if not triple the amount of titles.
You keep typing out these long responses without addressing any of the *actual real world results* that I'm citing. You want to live in fantasy thought experiment world. We can't know what Iowa would do with PSU's recruits. But we do know what they've done with the top 10 recruits they got vs. what PSU's done with theirs and the results are clear.
There are 2-3 other guys I would rather have from their alumni. Nolf would be my first choice. Taylor is not the type I would want in Iowa, and I speak of personalities as much as wrestling knowledge.
Welp, then we reached a clear point to end our debate. We agree on 1, but fully disagree on 2. You even got to call me a name in the process. Thanks, have great rest of your day...
From a PSU fan, can I just wish you away? It's even annoying to me. I can't imagine how annoying it is for the rest of these guys. Go back the the PSU Football Forum.
*implies debate partner lacks integrity during a respectful exchange then pouts when he gets the same treatment back*
thank you for literally addressing nothing that *actually happened* this entire time
based on what happened on the first "day that will live in infamy" I'm a little worried about this guy's plans for Beaver Stadium....
give me Buchanan and maybe picklo for 184
I agree that Cael is an ice cold killer on the recruiting trail but it seems as if he does a pretty decent job of helping kids get to where they want to be while at Penn State. If he was selling recruits bags of shit, wouldn't that eventually come out? Because that's what your post seems to be saying...that he's doing something unscrupulous to get kids.
I ask this because I often consider it when people bad mouth Franklin and recruits always talking about "family." I'm not saying Franklin is a great coach but he's a pretty damn good recruiter and I've not heard boo about him being sleazy on the trail. That stuff generally has a way of getting out or causing a divided house.
The God thing does seem weird from some kids but I don't think Cael is jamming God down their throat or telling them what to say. In fact, it seems to be something a lot of kids from a lot of different programs are talking about. Didn't the N. Co. kid also refer to God?
I didn't "imply" anything. I stressed taking your time to fully assess the situation without bias. As far as pouting goes, it was the literal opposite. I find namecalling the #1 sign of a weak mind. I pointed it out because I actually laughed out loud when you said it.
And if you think everything I typed addressed nothing of what "actually happened", I am even more happy to have "wasted" your time. Again, have a great rest of your day!
