All 4 teams with a bye in the CFP lost

[torbee]

Let this discussion serve as proof to all who wonder if there would ever be a system that satisfies people.
No matter how many teams, no matter the format, there will always be people that want to crown their own Champion or 'best team', based on whatever criteria they think up.

Disagree.

Any sport that uses a series format to crown a champion - MLB, NBA, NHL - definitely identifies the best team of that given season.

In addition, European Soccer - where you clerly delineate trophies (you get 1 for winning the league table, you get 1 for winning an in-season tournament) also more accurately determine true "best" teams based on criteria.

NCAA basketball and NFL and now NCAA football award a championship to an excellent team best able to get on a hot streak.

 

[Pinehawk]

Disagree.

Any sport that uses a series format to crown a champion - MLB, NBA, NHL - definitely identifies the best team of that given season.

In addition, European Soccer - where you clerly delineate trophies (you get 1 for winning the league table, you get 1 for winning an in-season tournament) also more accurately determine true "best" teams based on criteria.

NCAA basketball and NFL and now NCAA football award a championship to an excellent team best able to get on a hot streak.

MLB, NBA and NHL teams don't 'get on a hot streak' in the playoffs? And, play the playoffs differently than they do during the regular season? Of course they do.
In the NBA, the top teams barely care what seed they get. Knowing they can 'turn it on' when needed.
Despite the format, the teams that win it all, have proven themselves to be the best. Any other claims are sour grapes.

 

[torbee]

MLB, NBA and NHL teams don't 'get on a hot streak' in the playoffs? And, play the playoffs differently than they do during the regular season? Of course they do.
In the NBA, the top teams barely care what seed they get. Knowing they can 'turn it on' when needed.
Despite the format, the teams that win it all, have proven themselves to be the best. Any other claims are sour grapes.

To be honest, that's why I opposed playoff expansion in baseball.

Take every team that won its division over 162 games, then see which one could beat the other 4 out of 7 times and call that the one true champion. Probably the last "pure" championship in team sports.

 

[ThorneStockton]

I guess I just don't understand the point you were trying to make in this paragraph:


You seem to be saying that Oregon should still be regarded as better than Ohio State or something. It really doesn't matter, only one team is playing another game. Oregon should have won when it mattered. Just like all the teams that lost.

What in that paragraph got you thinking about disregarding the games and going by recruiting rankings and financial incomes? I'm still perplexed by that.

And no, I'm not saying Oregon should still be regarded as better than Ohio State. I'm saying that Oregon should still be regarded as a very deserving and worthy contender in a hypothetical BCS style national championship despite losing a game. I feel that way based on for one thing... the games played during the season. You know, the season where Oregon beat Ohio State once, and lost to Ohio State once. Only a sample size of two, but still an indication of an excellent team. Oh, and they also beat PSU for a conference championship, sure only a one game sample size, but that's another nice win. Oh and a win against another playoff team. That and every other team also has blemishes on their records.

Said another way: Oregon had an excellent season, losing a single game doesn't invalidate it, it only means they won't win the playoff.

If this is still a difficult concept to understand, I forfeit.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

.

Is that actually how you think about these things? The playoff era is going to put two of these teams in the National Championship game:

- A two loss OSU team, which we now know would have been the wrong decision, after they lost to a one loss Oregon team, who was crushed in their lone loss, and a mid-Michigan team.

- A two loss PSU team, which we now know would have been the wrong decision, after they lost to a two loss OSU team, who lost to a one loss (crushing) Oregon team.

- A two loss Texas team, which we now know would have been the wrong decision, after they lost twice to a three loss Georgia team.

- A one loss Notre Dame team, which we now know would have been the wrong decision, after they lost to the five loss Idaho Potato bowl winner.


People put too much stock into the results of one game. Ohio State beating Oregon doesn't invalidate Oregon's successful season or retroactively make them the 'wrong' choice to appear in a hypothetical National Championship game. It just means that Ohio State won that day, it's an indication that they were better that day, and an indication that they are a better team than Oregon. Play it again, and it might go Oregon's way - and all of the sudden putting Oregon in a hypothetical National Championship looks less 'wrong' - it turns out they did play before, and Oregon won.

Greg Sankey, is that you?

I mean, if its all about the best team on paper, then you should just crown Bama or UGA in the summer and have them opt out the whole season, while they ride around in their Lambos with one finger in the air.

 

[ThorneStockton]

.

Greg Sankey, is that you?

I mean, if its all about the best team on paper, then you should just crown Bama or UGA in the summer and have them opt out the whole season, while they ride around in their Lambos with one finger in the air.

Who said anything about best team on paper? Why would I crown Bama or UGA in the summer when I prefer to judge the teams based on the results of the games they play - even if they are too few in number - to definitively state who is the 'best' team?

Did you quote the wrong post?

 

[BioHawk]

What in that paragraph got you thinking about disregarding the games and going by recruiting rankings and financial incomes? I'm still perplexed by that.

I was providing made up examples on what creates bias for ESPN.

Said another way: Oregon had an excellent season, losing a single game doesn't invalidate it, it only means they won't win the playoff.

If this is still a difficult concept to understand, I forfeit.

Right. That's how playoffs work. Nobody talks about how the NFC or AFC championship game loser was a terrible team, but they aren't Super Bowl teams either.

 

[ThorneStockton]

I was providing made up examples on what creates bias for ESPN.

Right. That's how playoffs work. Nobody talks about how the NFC or AFC championship game loser was a terrible team, but they aren't Super Bowl teams either.

And the post that started all of this stated that Oregon shouldn't have been in a hypothetical BSC national championship game because they lost to OSU... ignoring the fact that all the other teams still left, have their own losses too. Accordingly, it's an example of people putting too much stock on one game, a game that can often go either way. Which, of course happened this year, with Oregon and OSU, splitting the games they played against each other.

I'm not sure what you're trying to describe with your NFL example, maybe you could rephrase it for clarity.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

Who said anything about best team on paper? Why would I crown Bama or UGA in the summer when I prefer to judge the teams based on the results of the games they play - even if they are too few in number - to definitively state who is the 'best' team?

Did you quote the wrong post?

It's Greg! I knew it!

 

[RileyHawk]

Let this discussion serve as proof to all who wonder if there would ever be a system that satisfies people.
No matter how many teams, no matter the format, there will always be people that want to crown their own Champion or 'best team', based on whatever criteria they think up.

Serious question - do you understand that "best" is a subjective term that can be logically argued from different perspective? Likewise, do you understand that the winner of a championship game is not subjective and can't be logically argued?

 

[ThorneStockton]

It's Greg! I knew it!

Is this an FSU joke or is there something I am missing that makes it make sense or funny?

 

[BioHawk]

And the post that started all of this stated that Oregon shouldn't have been in a hypothetical BSC national championship game because they lost to OSU... ignoring the fact that all the other teams still left, have their own losses too. Accordingly, it's an example of people putting too much stock on one game, a game that can often go either way. Which, of course happened this year, with Oregon and OSU, splitting the games they played against each other.

I'm not sure what you're trying to describe with your NFL example, maybe you could rephrase it for clarity.

I guess I missed the post you were referring too. I generally agree with you that a team shouldn't have to go undefeated to be in the playoffs. The problem is people will say Oregon didn't deserve to be there in the same sentence they will make the argument that Alabama does. Hence the comments about money and ratings.

 

[FranklinHawk]

This is one of many reasons I see the schools getting together and revolting against the traditional bowls. The schools are gonna want the money a home playoff game brings and it’s absurd that these games are being played at neutral sites. Only the championship game should be a “bowl”

I could very well be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the gate revenues, etc. for the home playoff games still went into the CFP $$ pool and not the home team.

 

[BioHawk]

I could very well be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the gate revenues, etc. for the home playoff games still went into the CFP $$ pool and not the home team.

I don't know if you are right or wrong on this but they would still get concessions and parking fees for hosting. I'm sure they would get their expenses covered as well. Or maybe not, I know FIFA would just tell them to stick it so it's not unheard of.

 

[ThorneStockton]

I guess I missed the post you were referring too. I generally agree with you that a team shouldn't have to go undefeated to be in the playoffs. The problem is people will say Oregon didn't deserve to be there in the same sentence they will make the argument that Alabama does. Hence the comments about money and ratings.

I certainly didn't intend to defend a 9-3 now 9-4 Bama team by my defense of Oregon.

 

[BioHawk]

I certainly didn't intend to defend a 9-3 now 9-4 Bama team by my defense of Oregon.

I didn't say you were. I was speaking in generalities. Mainly the same media members that have a big chunk of creating these messes in the first place.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I would argue that 12 is too many. If your regular season resume doesn’t clearly establish you as one of the top eight teams in the country then what right do you have to call yourself ‘national champion’ even if you get hot and pull off three or four straight playoff wins?

According to Pinehawk...

Despite the format, the teams that win it all, have proven themselves to be the best. Any other claims are sour grapes.

The team that wins the game IS the national champion. The debate about who is the best team never ends.

 

[SolarHawk]

I get that you like the playoffs and the "championship" being decided on the field, but why the anger toward the other bowl games? Why do you think it's important they cease to be played? What's wrong with having both like this year?

I was pretty clear that I just don’t care for them and I believe they will slowly go away. Never advocated they should cease to exist. And uh, why do you have championship in parentheses? Please dont be dumb.

 

[SolarHawk]

Pointing out its boring, greed-driven and less compelling is merely observation.

And accurate.

A game to determine the "best team" on a given day?

Isn't that YOUR definition of a "meaningless exhibition?"

Torbs, you’re such a clown. How’s Tuesdays with torbs going? I don’t actually care so don’t bother answering.

 

[gohawks50]

I was pretty clear that I just don’t care for them and I believe they will slowly go away. Never advocated they should cease to exist. And uh, why do you have championship in parentheses? Please dont be dumb.

You're right I shouldn't have put championship in parentheses. Whatever team wins the tournament is the CF playoff champion, whether they were the best team for 2024 season is debatable.

 

[Pinehawk]

Yeah. The team that won 3+ playoff football games might not be the best team.
It could be a team that lost and was eliminated.

 

[RileyHawk]

Yeah. The team that won 3+ playoff football games might not be the best team.
It could be a team that lost and was eliminated.

Serious question - do you understand that "best" is a subjective term that can be logically argued from different perspective? Likewise, do you understand that the winner of a championship game is not subjective and can't be logically argued?

 

[Pinehawk]

Of course. Do you understand that the winner of the tournament is actually the best team, who accomplished the entire point of the season long sporting event. And, that any other interpretation of the ‘best’ is basically worthless opinions?

 

[RileyHawk]

Of course. Do you understand that the winner of the tournament is actually the best team, who accomplished the entire point of the season long sporting event. And, that any other interpretation of the ‘best’ is basically worthless opinions?

Your post demonstrates that you don't understand which is completely unsurprising.

 

[Pinehawk]

Your post demonstrates that you don't understand which is completely unsurprising.

You can name your own best team if it makes you feel better.

 

[RileyHawk]

You can name your own best team if it makes you feel better.

You're finally getting it.

Except I doubt you are.

 

[Pinehawk]

If you think about it, isn’t every team really ‘the best’ in their own unique way?

 

[RileyHawk]

If you think about it, isn’t every team really ‘the best’ in their own unique way?

That's debatable. But who won the championship isn't.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Yeah. The team that won 3+ playoff football games might not be the best team.
It could be a team that lost and was eliminated.

*sigh* So whoever wins the game is the best team in the country. That means the very next week they could play anyone and undoubtedly win. The best team wins, right? So explain, please, how the very best team in the entire country...lost this season? And don't f'n quibble...it's YOUR claim.

 

[gohawks50]

*sigh* So whoever wins the game is the best team in the country. That means the very next week they could play anyone and undoubtedly win. The best team wins, right? So explain, please, how the very best team in the entire country...lost this season? And don't f'n quibble...it's YOUR claim.

It's funny how the best team (Conference championship game winner) in every conference lost and the playoff is still continuing. Oregon won the Big Ten championship game on December 7th, but apparently they were only the best team in the Big for less than a month when they lost to OSU on New Years Day.