Amari Spievey's view

[jvjhawk]

This link is to an interview with Amari Spievey, NFLer and one of the best DBs ever at Iowa. The interviewer does a great job and Amari comes across as so thoughtful, balanced, and credible. Even though his take on some things (like DJK) went against my feelings, I found Amari Spievey to be incredibly fair and very impressive. Proud to call him a Hawkeye. One of the most compelling pieces I have heard to date.

Tough on Doyle. Generally good on Kirk. Much, much love for Phil and Norm. Please listen if you are interested in a good, fair, inside analysis.

http://www.storycounty.news/podcast/week-119-bradas-branded-thoughts-ft-amari-spievey/

1

 

[CleteyColgate]

This link is to an interview with Amari Spievey, NFLer and one of the best DBs ever at Iowa. The interviewer does a great job and Amari comes across as so thoughtful, balanced, and credible. Even though his take on some things (like DJK) went against my feelings, I found Amari Spievey to be incredibly fair and very impressive. Proud to call him a Hawkeye. One of the most compelling pieces I have heard to date.

Tough on Doyle. Generally good on Kirk. Much, much love for Phil and Norm. Please listen if you are interested in a good, fair, inside analysis.

http://www.storycounty.news/podcast/week-119-bradas-branded-thoughts-ft-amari-spievey/

1

Most of the players are pretty easy on Kirk. Worst they say is that Kirk didn't police his coaches enough, let them do what they wanted.

 

[jvjhawk]

My summary for those who don't want to take the time to listen:

Said Doyle was really hard on some guys - too much so. Hard from them being from different place, different racial composition, different style -- and to have Doyle ride guys on certain things seemed wrong. Said it was never him -- but noted his personality and approach are very direct and practical and he never had a problem.

He said "they" were way too hard on DJK. He did not defend DJK in any way but said he witnessed the garbage can on his head -- and he felt like it was done to humiliate DJK. It made Spievey mad.

He said Doyle seemed to think he was a comedian but that a lot of what he did was not funny and was offensive. Said all the players had to deal with subverting their ego -- and following the Iowa Way -- but Doyle was all ego and power and Spievey was not a fan of that.

He liked Kirk. He was not full of praise for him, but liked him. Good man.

He was effusive in praising Norm and especially Phil -- who he said really looked out for him, cared for him, and was like a father figure.

No axe to grind. Direct and fair in his analysis. Very credible and very impressive. Did not call for Doyle's head but seemed to doubt much could change if he stayed. Ouch

Pretty ambivalent when directly asked whether he was confident Kirk could turn it around. No shots at Kirk. Just no full throated endorsement.

Very credible guy in my opinion -- even though I had a hard time hearing that he thought the coaches were too hard on DJK. No bitching about petty things, lots of praise where warranted, and honest assessment even when tough. He even seemed like he agreed with most of us on these boards on what we could do as an offense and defense to be better.

Again, proud to call him a Hawkeye. And FWIW the interviewer did a great job even though he is from Cyclone country

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Nice.

 

[luvmyhawks]

My summary for those who don't want to take the time to listen:

Said Doyle was really hard on some guys - too much so. Hard from them being from different place, different racial composition, different style -- and to have Doyle ride guys on certain things seemed wrong. Said it was never him -- but noted his personality and approach are very direct and practical and he never had a problem.

He said "they" were way too hard on DJK. He did not defend DJK in any way but said he witnessed the garbage can on his head -- and he felt like it was done to humiliate DJK. It made Spievey mad.

He said Doyle seemed to think he was a comedian but that a lot of what he did was not funny and was offensive. Said all the players had to deal with subverting their ego -- and following the Iowa Way -- but Doyle was all ego and power and Spievey was not a fan of that.

He liked Kirk. He was not full of praise for him, but liked him. Good man.

He was effusive in praising Norm and especially Phil -- who he said really looked out for him, cared for him, and was like a father figure.

No axe to grind. Direct and fair in his analysis. Very credible and very impressive. Did not call for Doyle's head but seemed to doubt much could change if he stayed. Ouch

Pretty ambivalent when directly asked whether he was confident Kirk could turn it around. No shots at Kirk. Just no full throated endorsement.

Very credible guy in my opinion -- even though I had a hard time hearing that he thought the coaches were too hard on DJK. No bitching about petty things, lots of praise where warranted, and honest assessment even when tough. He even seemed like he agreed with most of us on these boards on what we could do as an offense and defense to be better.

Again, proud to call him a Hawkeye. And FWIW the interviewer did a great job even though he is from Cyclone country

I would also recommend listening to Marvin mcnutts interview. Very similar to amari’s interview. great listens and there is no doubt Doyle is done at Iowa, IMO.

edit: here is the link to marvins interview, courtesy of oit. I recommend you listen to it.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/487-...wkeye-marvin-mcnutt-discusses-iowas-63711569/

 

[iahawks10]

So the “Iowa Way” is that ALL players were equal and treated equally. In the same breath, black players were treated differently and punished harder. Have no ego, but Doyle had the biggest ego of anyone.

If I missed Spivey’s message, I apologize. Thanks for sharing that interview.

 

[hawkeye_1997]

So the “Iowa Way” is that ALL players were equal and treated equally. In the same breath, black players were treated differently and punished harder. Have no ego, but Doyle had the biggest ego of anyone.

If I missed Spivey’s message, I apologize. Thanks for sharing that interview.

Talk about not getting someone message, try reading your own post.

nothing wrong with a former player being conflicted on the situation. I bet most are.

 

[iahawks10]

Talk about not getting someone message, try reading your own post.

nothing wrong with a former player being conflicted on the situation. I bet most are.

Was my post inaccurate? Did Spivey not say what I posted?

“not getting someone message, try reading your own post.” Glass houses, brother.

I’m sure a majority of the players are torn. I didn’t fault him for being conflicted. Spivey was basically saying that coaches preached the “Iowa Way”, but didn’t practice it themselves. They said, don’t have an ego, but Coach Doyle had the biggest ego. That is what I took from Spivey’s interview. That and Coach Doyle mostly picked on players he knew he could bully. Spivey said he wasn’t one of those players. Amari really liked both Parkers, especially Norm.

 

[Hawkeyenuts66]

Sounds a lot like boot camp.

 

[Stormn Norman]

I agree with Amari when he touched on some keys to winning with Iowa on offensive predictably, speed and individuality. I do think some things in that regard are heading in the right direction..

Deff not funny or cool or should be acceptable to demoralize, humiliate or kinda haze players as coaches as well.. seems like some of those things seemed to be the “norm”... having been in that situation before even with fairly thick skin you tend to move on from things like that BUT you don’t always forget. It can however make you angry and when used properly can help while playing football, STILL VERY WRONG. What Amari talks about kids from inner city areas having “culture shock” seems like it could possibly be remedied by staff diversity and having staff that kids from other places can relate too...

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

I didn't listen to the interview, but the "summary" was good--thanks.
Here's my honest question: when you're dealing with as many kids as they are, don't you somewhat HAVE to control the egos in order to have a cohesive team? You're--the team--trying to accomplish the same goal: win. So don't you need to work hard with and for the guy next to you in order to achieve that? I know in my years in sports, that's what it was.
Now, I also admit that you can't single-out and beat down certain individuals, and it's very possible Doyle went too far with certain ones--I wasn't there. And teams HAVE to have leaders from within, which means those leaders have to have the ego and personality to lead, but you can't have the "look at me" egos if you're going to be successful, you have to have the "look TO me" egos.

 

[PerkyForHerky]

I'll have to listen to the interview. On Facebook he has come across as very judgmental and closed minded. To the point that I decided to unfriend who was once a pretty good friend back in the day, just to eliminate more of the FB negativity that I come across.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

I'll have to listen to the interview. On Facebook he has come across as very judgmental and closed minded. To the point that I decided to unfriend who was once a pretty good friend back in the day, just to eliminate more of the FB negativity that I come across.

If I may good sir, delete the whole account. I deleted my Twitter account about a two weeks ago after becoming fried over all of the stupidity that got shoved in my face, and I feel 15 years younger.

 

[icantfindausernamethatisntused]

My summary for those who don't want to take the time to listen:

Said Doyle was really hard on some guys - too much so. Hard from them being from different place, different racial composition, different style -- and to have Doyle ride guys on certain things seemed wrong. Said it was never him -- but noted his personality and approach are very direct and practical and he never had a problem.

He said "they" were way too hard on DJK. He did not defend DJK in any way but said he witnessed the garbage can on his head -- and he felt like it was done to humiliate DJK. It made Spievey mad.

He said Doyle seemed to think he was a comedian but that a lot of what he did was not funny and was offensive. Said all the players had to deal with subverting their ego -- and following the Iowa Way -- but Doyle was all ego and power and Spievey was not a fan of that.

He liked Kirk. He was not full of praise for him, but liked him. Good man.

He was effusive in praising Norm and especially Phil -- who he said really looked out for him, cared for him, and was like a father figure.

No axe to grind. Direct and fair in his analysis. Very credible and very impressive. Did not call for Doyle's head but seemed to doubt much could change if he stayed. Ouch

Pretty ambivalent when directly asked whether he was confident Kirk could turn it around. No shots at Kirk. Just no full throated endorsement.

Very credible guy in my opinion -- even though I had a hard time hearing that he thought the coaches were too hard on DJK. No bitching about petty things, lots of praise where warranted, and honest assessment even when tough. He even seemed like he agreed with most of us on these boards on what we could do as an offense and defense to be better.

Again, proud to call him a Hawkeye. And FWIW the interviewer did a great job even though he is from Cyclone country

Couple of additional tidbits I found interesting:

• Amari played 3 seasons with the Detroit Lions - when asked if he's still a Lions fan, he said he's never been a Lions fan. He didn't enjoy his time there.
• Regarding the DJK incident, Amari said no way Doyle would have made him do that if DJK were white.
• Amari left Iowa after his junior season and was drafted in the 3rd round. He said he probably would have came back for his senior season if he felt more appreciated by the Iowa coaching staff.
• When asked if he's still an Iowa fan, Amari said yes he's still an Iowa fan.

I think his experience is similar to what I've heard from a lot of players. Enjoyed his time at Iowa, but it was still a mixed bag. In the last few years, we've seen a large amount of players choose to leave early for the NFL. How much of them feel the same way Amari did, wherein maybe they would have stayed if they felt more appreciated? For projected first or second rounders (e.g., Hockenson, Fant, Wirfs, Epenesa) I doubt this was much of a deciding factor. But what about Amani Hooker? Stone?

I get coaches wanting to run a tight ship. But if you're going to do that, you need to be able to lift the players up as well and make them feel appreciated. It also is a failure that Ferentz and the staff did not have a pulse for this being a general feeling among players, especially black players. It's not that surprising that players might not want to bring up these issues while they're still in the program. There should be protocols for anonymous upward feedback so these types of issues can be brought up without fear of retaliation. I expect that KF will be able to make the necessary changes, but it sounds like Doyle will not be part of that future.

 

[David1979]

I agree with Amari when he touched on some keys to winning with Iowa on offensive predictably, speed and individuality. I do think some things in that regard are heading in the right direction..

Deff not funny or cool or should be acceptable to demoralize, humiliate or kinda haze players as coaches as well.. seems like some of those things seemed to be the “norm”... having been in that situation before even with fairly thick skin you tend to move on from things like that BUT you don’t always forget. It can however make you angry and when used properly can help while playing football, STILL VERY WRONG. What Amari talks about kids from inner city areas having “culture shock” seems like it could possibly be remedied by staff diversity and having staff that kids from other places can relate too...

Agree. And as far as staff adversity that has gotten better recently with the addition of Copeland, Foster and Bell moving to coaching position. It probably should be a surprise that the RB and WR recruiting has gotten better the last few years with those guys. Also think it helps having Binns as director of player development. Having these guys on staff I am sure has helped in trying to loosen some of the restrictions that can seem targeted to the black athletes in the program.

 

[Titanhawk2]

The coaches better have an ego, they're the ones teaching and leading and if they don't believe their ways are right/the best, the team isn't going to be anything. Agree their "way" may not be right, that's got nothing to do with ego. And if ego is the problem then this is much ado about nothing.

 

[David1979]

Couple of additional tidbits I found interesting:

• Amari played 3 seasons with the Detroit Lions - when asked if he's still a Lions fan, he said he's never been a Lions fan. He didn't enjoy his time there.
• Regarding the DJK incident, Amari said no way Doyle would have made him do that if DJK were white.
• Amari left Iowa after his junior season and was drafted in the 3rd round. He said he probably would have came back for his senior season if he felt more appreciated by the Iowa coaching staff.
• When asked if he's still an Iowa fan, Amari said yes he's still an Iowa fan.

I think his experience is similar to what I've heard from a lot of players. Enjoyed his time at Iowa, but it was still a mixed bag. In the last few years, we've seen a large amount of players choose to leave early for the NFL. How much of them feel the same way Amari did, wherein maybe they would have stayed if they felt more appreciated? For projected first or second rounders (e.g., Hockenson, Fant, Wirfs, Epenesa) I doubt this was much of a deciding factor. But what about Amani Hooker? Stone?

I get coaches wanting to run a tight ship. But if you're going to do that, you need to be able to lift the players up as well and make them feel appreciated. It also is a failure that Ferentz and the staff did not have a pulse for this being a general feeling among players, especially black players. It's not that surprising that players might not want to bring up these issues while they're still in the program. There should be protocols for anonymous upward feedback so these types of issues can be brought up without fear of retaliation. I expect that KF will be able to make the necessary changes, but it sounds like Doyle will not be part of that future.

I have been thinking about this too in terms of Hooker and Stone. Fant probably wasn't that happy but he was a first rounder so no question he should leave but guys like Stone and Hooker might have been guys that would have stuck around if they felt better inside the football building.
Totally agree about being able to lift players up as well. It seemed that at some point in the program it just turned way too negative.

 

[Hendy hawk]

Sounds a lot like boot camp.

Every bit!!!

 

[David1979]

I didn't listen to the interview, but the "summary" was good--thanks.
Here's my honest question: when you're dealing with as many kids as they are, don't you somewhat HAVE to control the egos in order to have a cohesive team? You're--the team--trying to accomplish the same goal: win. So don't you need to work hard with and for the guy next to you in order to achieve that? I know in my years in sports, that's what it was.
Now, I also admit that you can't single-out and beat down certain individuals, and it's very possible Doyle went too far with certain ones--I wasn't there. And teams HAVE to have leaders from within, which means those leaders have to have the ego and personality to lead, but you can't have the "look at me" egos if you're going to be successful, you have to have the "look TO me" egos.

I like that distinction, look at me vs look to me.

 

[Hawkeyenuts66]

Every bit!!!

Separating the men from the boys.

 

[naturalmwa]

Sounds a lot like boot camp.

It sounds like a Vietnam era boot camp. Even the military has cleaned things up since then.

 

[Rustys Dad]

If I may good sir, delete the whole account. I deleted my Twitter account about a two weeks ago after becoming fried over all of the stupidity that got shoved in my face, and I feel 15 years younger.

Yeah ... I've been spending way too much time on Twitter (against my better judgement) ... I may take your path and just delete it.

Edit/update: I did delete Twitter. I've been too engaged in all the recent Hawk talk ... Not good for my mental energy ...

 

[Hawkeyenuts66]

It sounds like a Vietnam era boot camp. Even the military has cleaned things up since then.

As if you have any idea what boot is like. When did you serve?

 

[naturalmwa]

As if you have any idea what boot is like. When did you serve?

I was out at Ft Lewis crawling around the termite mounds. Boot camp isn’t degrading, it’s very professional. You don’t need to belittle people to motivate them.

 

[DewHawk]

I was out at Ft Lewis crawling around the termite mounds. Boot camp isn’t degrading, it’s very professional. You don’t need to belittle people to motivate them.

Seriously, your DI's did not belittle you? They called us every name in the book and rode us the entire 10 weeks at Fort Bliss in 1968. But, they did it to weed out weak folks and instill discipline in the ranks. Not overly fond of any of them, but would not trash their lives.

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

I was out at Ft Lewis crawling around the termite mounds. Boot camp isn’t degrading, it’s very professional. You don’t need to belittle people to motivate them.

[insert joke about surprised you weren't in the Navy here]

Good post, and very true. I'm all for hard discipline in the program. Some of the shit I've seen from Doyle, even if not overtly racist, is far from that.

 

[naturalmwa]

Seriously, your DI's did not belittle you? They called us every name in the book and rode us the entire 10 weeks at Fort Bliss in 1968. But, they did it to weed out weak folks and instill discipline in the ranks. Not overly fond of any of them, but would not trash their lives.

That’s not a thing anymore. Most of the motivation was centered around peer pressure. If you failed to make the mark, the whole group was corrected, usually by doing push-ups. The desire to get along with your soldiers was motivating. There were also ladies in the same group, perhaps that’s what football needs.

 

[ltsimmer]

I was out at Ft Lewis crawling around the termite mounds. Boot camp isn’t degrading, it’s very professional. You don’t need to belittle people to motivate them.

There's no boot camp in Fort Lewis. I agree that Iowa football seems like boot camp/basic training. I disagree that boot camp/basic training isn't degrading, because it can be for some.

 

[naturalmwa]

There's no boot camp in Fort Lewis. I agree that Iowa football seems like boot camp/basic training. I disagree that boot camp/basic training isn't degrading, because it can be for some.

It wasn’t for me and that’s where I was. It’s hard work, but no one calls you names.

 

[JRHawk2003]

So much of this is really a change in times. Many of us that grew up in the 70's or 80's or before had coaches who really rode us. Said all kinds of insensitive things. Doyle and KF come from that. The times changed on them.

 

[CuttyDoesIt]

Sounds a lot like boot camp.

And that's ok? because training college kids for a football game should be the same as training people to go to war

 

[ltsimmer]

It wasn’t for me and that’s where I was. It’s hard work, but no one calls you names.

I was just nitpicking, since boot camp is a term for Navy and Marines and basic training is used by Air Force and Army. I also don't remember Fort Lewis being a basic training center, though maybe it is now. Everybody called everybody names. Drill Sergeants had a nickname for almost everyone, some of which were demeaning (though I don't know if that's a thing anymore). These nicknames became your identify and everybody thrived on them. Soldiers could overcome that a demeaning nickname by hard work, but the name would stick with you and you wore it with a badge of honor. Peer pressure was always there but you can be sure that a pack of drill sergeants would converge on you if you were openly belligerent to them and they would have lots of colorful things to say.

 

[Hkfan23]

Not sticking up for Kirk or Doyle in this. But I will say this whole KF “blackballed” certain players for the NFL doesn’t really make sense. Kirk may be a lot of things that are viewed as negative, but getting players black or white to the NFL is not one of them. That is the one area of constant praise by NFL execs and coaches. In fact, there have been a ton of quotes that Iowa players get drafted a lot of times cause they are “NFL ready” if they played at Iowa. So I’m sorry if DJK or Wadley aren’t starting on Sundays but to say KF is the reason is crazy. KF has credibility in the NFL probably in large part cause he is honest with the NFL people. DJK ran a drug house and Wadley was small. Leaving race aside a couple things. They both had red flags and BTW the NFL has made it clear if you can play we ignore much of the baggage. So don’t tell me KF “made sure” DJK and Wadley wouldn’t play on Sundays. DJK couldn’t stick in the CFL or Arena League. So come on.

 

[ltsimmer]

And that's ok? because training college kids for a football game should be the same as training people to go to war

The end goal of winning is the important part. You can't win if there is not unity and mentally and physically not ready. That's the coaches/drill sergeants job. If a player or a soldier steps too far away, you can be sure that they will bring you back by motivating (good and bad) you. If they couldn't be brought back (weeding out the weak), they were let go.

The training is obviously different, but the interaction between coaches to players and drill sergeants to soldiers are similar. I think that is what some are saying.

 

[naturalmwa]

I was just nitpicking, since boot camp is a term for Navy and Marines and basic training is used by Air Force and Army. I also don't remember Fort Lewis being a basic training center, though maybe it is now. Everybody called everybody names. Drill Sergeants had a nickname for almost everyone, some of which were demeaning (though I don't know if that's a thing anymore). These nicknames became your identify and everybody thrived on them. Soldiers could overcome that a demeaning nickname by hard work, but the name would stick with you and you wore it with a badge of honor. Peer pressure was always there but you can be sure that a pack of drill sergeants would converge on you if you were openly belligerent to them and they would have lots of colorful things to say.

They just called us by our last names. Very little joking, yelling or teasing. I describe it as very professional.

 

[Hawkeyenuts66]

And that's ok? because training college kids for a football game should be the same as training people to go to war

Boot/Basic is more about team building than you realize. And no football camp isn't anything close to basic.

 

[hawkfeever]

KOK was O Coordinator during DJK's time, would love to hear what he would say. Was Soup Campbell the WR coach yet then? He seemed very laid back on sideline like KOK is.

 

[ichawk24]

Agree. And as far as staff adversity that has gotten better recently with the addition of Copeland, Foster and Bell moving to coaching position. It probably should be a surprise that the RB and WR recruiting has gotten better the last few years with those guys. Also think it helps having Binns as director of player development. Having these guys on staff I am sure has helped in trying to loosen some of the restrictions that can seem targeted to the black athletes in the program.

I agree that the trajectory of the program was already moving in a better direction. Iowa had atrocious retention of skill players in the 2012 to 2016 range, lets just call it the Greg Davis era. The Copeland/Foster/Bell/Woods/Binns group appears to have made it a lot more comfortable for black players at Iowa.

There are a lot of quality black voices in the management ranks. Kirk has shown flexibility. If Doyle leaves, and Braithwaite becomes head S&C, the leadership is even more diverse.

Copeland seems like a star. So does Bell. The OnIowa guys suggested they name Bell assistant head coach. He sounds a lot like Kirk. People person, connects with everyone. Very smart, he has a math degree from Iowa.

If Kirk makes the right steps, this can truly be a positive change.

 

[hawkedoff]

I was out at Ft Lewis crawling around the termite mounds. Boot camp isn’t degrading, it’s very professional. You don’t need to belittle people to motivate them.

Part the army, air force, or the correctional facility?

 

[hawkedoff]

It wasn’t for me and that’s where I was. It’s hard work, but no one calls you names.

So you didn't serve? Or you did? Which is it?

Civilian attached to the base?