An argument why I wouldn't want Charlie Moore

[Suterman]

Dan I usually agree with you but not today.

1) Sapp would not sit still for a redshirt, nor should he. We will need him THIS year to make the dance with our schedule.
2) I will be very pleased if we get Jordan Bohannon. I will be ECSTATIC if we get Charlie Moore. He is no Tyler Ulis but he has the quicks unlike any we've seen here in a long time. Fran has hand picked Charlie and he wants him (Ain't gonna happen)
3) If Charlie Moore takes his 5th official somewhere other than Iowa, I hope his offer is pulled and Jordan gets his offer that second.

 

[DanL53]

I've had some fun playing Devil's Advocate today.

Let's just say that I'm still a member of the "Trust in Fran" club. I do however believe that Moore is very concerned with playing right away and knowing Conner McCaffery is coming for the 2017/18 and beyond may be a concern for him.

I think most of us know Fran isn't going to sell a kid on what isn't going to happen. And Moore isn't going to be promised Carte Blanche the starting point guard spot. Not with Williams (who if you've not seen, don't assume he is just an option...the kid has very real potential to be a good one.) And Conner in the mix. It's going to be play hard and earn the minutes.

As to Fleming, I don't recall seeing him play point for Oak Hill and I watched every game I could. I think in a pinch he could suffice but his skills are much more useful in the shooting guard role where his excellent passing can only be a help to whoever our point guard happens to be.

It's been fun today, and my compliments to some knowledgeable posters for calling me out and making outstanding points!

 

[DanL53]

Dan I usually agree with you but not today.

1) Sapp would not sit still for a redshirt, nor should he. We will need him THIS year to make the dance with our schedule.
2) I will be very pleased if we get Jordan Bohannon. I will be ECSTATIC if we get Charlie Moore. He is no Tyler Ulis but he has the quicks unlike any we've seen here in a long time. Fran has hand picked Charlie and he wants him (Ain't gonna happen)
3) If Charlie Moore takes his 5th official somewhere other than Iowa, I hope his offer is pulled and Jordan gets his offer that second.

Just for clarifications sake, I don't advocate for redshirting Clemmons. Not at all.

 

[RefinedBean]

I don't see Connor immediately playing ahead of Moore. They're about equal, it seems, and Moore would have a year on him. Connor would toe the line and come off the bench.

Maybe Moore is worried about Williams, but that seems a wee bit ludicrous.

 

[freemanbrenner]

Would not be shocking to see Connor McCaffery start as a freshman. Think he won't be competing with Charlie Moore because I think he goes to Cal.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

This is all going to be over soon, and as usual, some of you will think the sky is falling.

 

[RefinedBean]

This is all going to be over soon, and as usual, some of you will think the sky is falling.

Not the sky is falling. Just an unhappy reminder that despite our recent success, we can't seem to turn that into the big recruiting wins that seem to come much easier to other programs.

 

[HeRKeYHoPeFuL]

Can we put to bed the myth that we ever had Ulis? He said in an interview that it was MSU until UK came in.

 

[Myvue]

Dan has many good posts. I think he is reading into things a bit much here though.

He basically called-out 12 D1 coaches. For one, Shaka Smart is a darn good coach, and probably more highly regarded nationally than Fran.
.

Shaka Smart is no longer the men's basketball coach at VCU though. He got the coaching job at Texas as soon as it came open after the end of last season.

 

[RocknRollface]

Besides being ridiculous, it would be a complete slap in the face to ask Clemmons to redshirt.

Asking him to sit out a year, postpone his life, not finish what he started with the guys he started it with who are all working towards a goal of advancing to an NCAA tournament win.

And instead sacrifice to play one year with a largely new group of mostly inexperienced players in what could likely be a rebuilding year.

Not a chance.

 

[DodgerHawki]

First let me say that if McCaffery wants a kid, I want him. That goes for if we offer a Bohannon just as much as that we've offered and pursued Moore. McCaffery's success has been a dang site better than anything we couch coaching posters can claim.

But, I'm going to get negative on this Moore kid, and I'm not going to be upset at all if he goes elsewhere. Why?

Offers: Georgia Tech, Cal, VCU, Pitt, Nevada, Ol' Miss, Iowa, Memphis, UIC, St. Johns, Illinois, DePaul.

I don't see a lot of coaches there, outside of McCaffery, that trip my "If HE wants him!" alarm. No Beilein, Izzo, or Ryan? In fact, personally I don't see a coach, besides McCaffery, that I would consider the kind to push a kid to better things.

Then there is the Iowa offer on 4/13/2015. At that time I see only offers from UIC, DePaul and St. Johns. That tells me coaches were watching the kid, not ready to make the leap. And it is a long time between April 13th and today. Much of what is getting coaches excited is Moore's play in AAU ball in the spring and summer.

A point guard, a scorer, is going to show quite a bit in AAU ball if he wants. And especially playing for Mac Irvin, Nick Irvin is by the way Moore's high school and AAU coach.

I know the kid is talented. And like I say, if McCaffery wants him I'm not dumb enough to not want him. But his trips? Cal, Pitt, Illinois, Memphis? I'm not so sure I'm getting the pattern unless it is one of wanting to play where there is no competition to earn minutes.

That's not Iowa, not with Williams already set to learn the point for a year. Not with Conner McCaffery coming up. And, I'd rather a kid have the urge to play with the best, not be anointed the starter.

We just went through having a guy that couldn't figure out why he wasn't getting minutes. Trey is gone now. I'm not so sure we wouldn't see the same with Moore.

And, bottom line. I want a guy more concerned with winning than with how often he's on the court.

Moore reminds me of the kind of player that ends up scoring 1500 or more points at his second school of choice after a transfer. The kind of kid that we meet in the nonconference and shut down or beat his team by 30 points. Or, he can decide to get with a program, ours or someone else's, and be more than an exciting to watch little guy that scores a lot and gets killed by a taller guard shooting over him.

Just my opinion.

Dan, I'm all for seeing the positive but this is a reach. Why go negative on a kid? Just because a guy doesn't immediately commit to Iowa doesn't make him a bad guy. And the list of coaches you had, the last 10-15 years Pitt has certainly had a far, far better program than has Iowa.

There is no other way to spin this than a disappointment if Iowa doesn't even get an official visit after the priority and time the staff spent on Moore. It is certainly true that no one player makes or breaks a program, and I DO have faith in Fran's ability to put together a competitive roster. All myself and some others are saying is that if Iowa wants to really content for a conference title, Fran needs to land an upper-tier point. That's it. I don't think Moore or anyone else is scared off by having Christian Williams on the roster or Connor McCaffery in another year. My opinion, but Connor's best position in college won't be as a full time point. He's just not quick enough. He has good enough size and a well-rounded game (he can really pass the ball) where he can be a successful "guard," which to me means he can do a little bit of everything. But asking him to be the primary ball-handler on a B1G team would be a mistake (in my opinion).

It certainly looks as if Fran is making the contingency plans by offering Jackson and keeping Bohannon updated and engaged. And if Bohannon is given the scholly, I'm fine with that too. But there is a reason Fran was in on Moore so early (much like Ulis). It's because he can play. If Moore was a bad egg, Iowa wouldn't have offered him and made him a priority.

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

Is Bohannon even the fallback recruit? It seems to me, we have some posters on here really advocating for Bohannon but I haven't heard a peep about him being actively recruited by Iowa.

 

[lenoxhawks]

I've had some fun playing Devil's Advocate today.

Let's just say that I'm still a member of the "Trust in Fran" club. I do however believe that Moore is very concerned with playing right away and knowing Conner McCaffery is coming for the 2017/18 and beyond may be a concern for him.

I think most of us know Fran isn't going to sell a kid on what isn't going to happen. And Moore isn't going to be promised Carte Blanche the starting point guard spot. Not with Williams (who if you've not seen, don't assume he is just an option...the kid has very real potential to be a good one.) And Conner in the mix. It's going to be play hard and earn the minutes.

As to Fleming, I don't recall seeing him play point for Oak Hill and I watched every game I could. I think in a pinch he could suffice but his skills are much more useful in the shooting guard role where his excellent passing can only be a help to whoever our point guard happens to be.

It's been fun today, and my compliments to some knowledgeable posters for calling me out and making outstanding points!

No you aren't. This whole thread was disrespectful to Fran and his staff and to a high school recruit that you don't personally know, but were willing to call a name. You are normally my favorite basketball poster but this thread was garbage. You should delete it and earn your way back into the trust Fran camp. Anyone who trusts are staff wouldn't make a garbage thread like this.

 

[lenoxhawks]

With that said I love what Williams brings to the table. I think he could be a star by his Jr year.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Is Bohannon even the fallback recruit? It seems to me, we have some posters on here really advocating for Bohannon but I haven't heard a peep about him being actively recruited by Iowa.

He is.

 

[DanL53]

No you aren't. This whole thread was disrespectful to Fran and his staff and to a high school recruit that you don't personally know, but were willing to call a name. You are normally my favorite basketball poster but this thread was garbage. You should delete it and earn your way back into the trust Fran camp. Anyone who trusts are staff wouldn't make a garbage thread like this.

Guilty as charged. I'm lucky to have had so many great fans call me out on my negativity on this thread. I hope I got it out of my system.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

So if Moore to Iowa falls through, why not redshirt Clemmons. Have Gessell and Williams(get his feet wet with an experienced guard) in 15-16. Clemmons and Williams in 16-17. Then Williams and McCaffrey or Bohannon after that.

Interesting. That is a good idea. Good for AC on a couple of areas. Redshirt AC if the right PG does not show up. Williams can get his feet wet this year, AC could start next year. Sitting would be tough, but I would think he would love to have it be "his team" for a year. Then Williams will be primed and ready to go after that.

AC is going to have a good year this season. He would have a better season next year with another year under his belt. Plus another year of free education to pick up a minor or another major, or work on a graduate degree. That would be good for him on a couple of fronts. Good for the Hawks, too.

 

[revkev73]

Seldom has one person written so much to say so little...

 

[Cydkar]

Fran has seen Moore play more than everyone else on this board combined. Trust him...it's that simple.

P.S. - Redshirting a healthy Clemmons is an insane idea. It's time to play for NOW.

 

[hawkfan1963]

Interesting. That is a good idea. Good for AC on a couple of areas. Redshirt AC if the right PG does not show up. Williams can get his feet wet this year, AC could start next year. Sitting would be tough, but I would think he would love to have it be "his team" for a year. Then Williams will be primed and ready to go after that.

AC is going to have a good year this season. He would have a better season next year with another year under his belt. Plus another year of free education to pick up a minor or another major, or work on a graduate degree. That would be good for him on a couple of fronts. Good for the Hawks, too.

Finally somebody gets it. His team, another year of free education. 5th year Senior leadership.

 

[AZmess]

Actually it's 2 people that don't.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

Finally somebody gets it. His team, another year of free education. 5th year Senior leadership.

Just think if we didn't have Uthoff this year. Or if we had Gabe one more year. Redshirting is not a bad thing. That said, I think Fran will finally land the PG he wants. So, this rambling will be just that.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Not getting Moore isn't bad, but getting bohannon instead is.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Not getting Moore isn't bad, but getting bohannon instead is.

Says a 'clone fan....

 

[HawkeyeFB4]

Not getting Moore isn't bad, but getting bohannon instead is.

Bohannons offers >>> Brady Ernsts offers

 

[Cydkar]

Says a 'clone fan....

And most Iowa fans. I've seen him play numerous times and I never thought he was a P5 conference guy. This next year may change my mind. He can sure shoot.

 

[clickhere 01]

Bohannons offers >>> Brady Ernsts offers

What does that have to do with anything? BTW, that isn't true.

 

[WORTHYWISH]

Remember when Washpun was a fallback recruit and he shunned us as well?

 

[Ronman]

Remember when Washpun was a fallback recruit and he shunned us as well?

He was another kid sold on Cuonzo Martin. Heard Moore might be as well. Who knows where Martin might be in a couple of years. He doesn't seem to stay anywhere very long for whatever reasons.

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

Bohannons offers >>> Brady Ernsts offers

Exactly, and getting Ernst as opposed to the other guys they wanted is a bad thing.

 

[Hawkfest]

I like Moore's skills, but Craft, Mateen Cleaves, Eric Snow, etc., are still pgs that would lock someone like Moore down. Moore ends up being a change of pace guy but splits minutes with our other big pgs. Not that concerned with Moore.