Apparently its OK to use the N word

[theIowaHawk]

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

HeHate:

You used three paragraphs to say the exact same thing, so I cut it down to this and bolded the important part for my question:

Why? Why "MUST" "they"? Why can't they have it both ways? Why would it not be perfectly acceptable for a "group" to call themselves a name, yet not want others not to call there group that?

 

[DanL53]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

HeHate:

You used three paragraphs to say the exact same thing, so I cut it down to this and bolded the important part for my question:

Why? Why "MUST" "they"? Why can't they have it both ways? Why would it not be perfectly acceptable for a "group" to call themselves a name, yet not want others not to call there group that?

Ask Chris Rock why he stopped doing his popular stand up routine "N........s and Black People", he stopped using it because racists were using his routine to take license to use the word themselves.

So, why can't they have it both ways? It doesn't work. If you start burning a cross in your lawn, your neighbors will burn crosses in their lawn. Maybe only one out of ten neighbors...but you can bet that if you get uptight about it they will say that you do it as well!

 

[markfromj]

Originally posted by noStemsnoSTICKS:

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Those saying there's a difference between blacks using the word vs whites, and that people should understand that dichotomy as it relates to American history........ I say BS!!!!!!

This is an all or nothing thing. Either the word is so toxic and its use is unacceptable to ALL, or its not. You can not have part of the population using the word as part of their pop-culture, while all others are hammered relentlessly and forever labeled as racists if they use it. No. It doesn't work like that no matter what the hip-hop homies in the hood would have you believe.

If you can say it, then I can say it. Period.

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

Respectfully, I disagree.

My wife and I may call each other a female dog as a term of endearment. However, if an outsider refers to her or I as a female dog, there will be blood.

Same thing with the N word, in my opinion.

Bad analogy. You are referring to someone referring to you or your wife.

How 'bout person C referring to person D? You don't claim license to stop that, do you, just because you use the same word within your group, do you?

 

[theIowaHawk]

Originally posted by markfromj:

Originally posted by noStemsnoSTICKS:

Respectfully, I disagree.

My wife and I may call each other a female dog as a term of endearment. However, if an outsider refers to her or I as a female dog, there will be blood.

Same thing with the N word, in my opinion.

Bad analogy. You are referring to someone referring to you or your wife.

How 'bout person C referring to person D? You don't claim license to stop that, do you, just because you use the same word within your group, do you?

No, but is that what "they" are doing? "They" are a large group. So, in furthering your analogy, I think it would be a white person saying it to another white person...and then no, "they" wouldn't have "license" to stop that.

But, in NoStem's analogy, the "wife" would simply be a member of the larger group ("blacks"). Certainly a wife would make it an obvious distinction.

 

[General Roman Malaise]

Can't believe I'm diving into this one, but IMO usage of the n-word should be viewed I a case-by-case basis. It's simply too loaded and too varied a word to not embrace a huge gray area between right and wrong.

I see absolutely nothing racist with Harrison's usage in this case. Heck, it might be the most post-racial thing we hear in 2015. A young black man calling a young white man a "nigga". For anyone remotely engaged with the current culture, it's a complete non-event.

I know a mixed race couple that uses "nigga" back and forth freely, even among close friends. They have clearly reached an understanding on usage. And it's obviously millions of miles from the white BF calling the black GF a "n----r". Not hard to understand the difference.

Also, there's a whole bushel of latent racism ITT.

 

[jhawkinaz]

Originally posted by sloehawk:

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Those saying there's a difference between blacks using the word vs whites, and that people should understand that dichotomy as it relates to American history........ I say BS!!!!!!

This is an all or nothing thing. Either the word is so toxic and its use is unacceptable to ALL, or its not. You can not have part of the population using the word as part of their pop-culture, while all others are hammered relentlessly and forever labeled as racists if they use it. No. It doesn't work like that no matter what the hip-hop homies in the hood would have you believe.

If you can say it, then I can say it. Period.

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

Agreed 100%. Either get rid or it for all, or accept the usage of it for all. Either works for me, but this "I can say it because I'm black and you can't because your white" is B.S. - plain and simple.

I got a nice chuckle out of one interview I saw with Stephen A (short for a-hole I presume....). He played the black reporter response to a black transgression card to a T. Nothing to see here folks, just young black folks doing what they do. I'm sure Stephen A considers Grant Hill a sellout.

I generally make it a point to stay out of topics such as this, but my curiosity has got the better of me on this one. Sloehawk, or anyone who agrees with this bolded statement, if you would tell me.....why do you care? Does it really make you angry that some people you don't even know say a word amongst themselves that you cannot use in public without being reprimanded? A word that you almost certainly don't want to use anyway? (if you do wish you could use it publicly....well that is a different issue and I don't want to know the answer to that.) I know Harrison didn't say it to himself or his buddies in this case, but I do think that was his intent. He just screwed up big-time.

How does it affect you that thousands of people (black or white) used this word yesterday, and thousands more are going to say it tomorrow? Now if someone comes and sits down at your house for dinner, and starts spouting off this word I understand your anger.......but otherwise why do you care? Would you feel better if you could run down the street screaming it out, and Stephen A Smith just said "well that's what he does"?

I think the issue in this case is that Harrison acted like a punk, not a racist. A punk to me is someone who thinks they are entitled to do whatever they want, when ever they feel like it because they do not fear the consequences. There has certainly been consequences for him. Imagine being that age and having millions of people judging you over a heat-of-the-moment comment....that would be terrifying.

There are a lot of things that seem wrong, aren't fair, or are double standards. That is called reality.

 

[HRiscool]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

HeHate:

You used three paragraphs to say the exact same thing, so I cut it down to this and bolded the important part for my question:

Why? Why "MUST" "they"? Why can't they have it both ways? Why would it not be perfectly acceptable for a "group" to call themselves a name, yet not want others not to call there group that?

When you're shooting for a civil society . . . you want civility. America as a society caters to the lowest common denominator. Coarse language does nothing to further civil society. Apparently, the price of freedom in America is coarseness and hypocrisy. Just another reminder that freedom isn't free.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Those saying there's a difference between blacks using the word vs whites, and that people should understand that dichotomy as it relates to American history........ I say BS!!!!!!

This is an all or nothing thing. Either the word is so toxic and its use is unacceptable to ALL, or its not. You can not have part of the population using the word as part of their pop-culture, while all others are hammered relentlessly and forever labeled as racists if they use it. No. It doesn't work like that no matter what the hip-hop homies in the hood would have you believe.

If you can say it, then I can say it. Period.

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

There are lot's of words that people use that have different meanings/impact on who you're saying them to so I have no problem with the N word having a different impact depending on who's using it.

Examples: Sweety--use it on your daughter/wife o.k....use it on your boss...trouble.

Ginger...use it on a Ginger...could be trouble. Use it on a black guy....strange look and probably a laugh.

Call a girl "pretty"...o.k....call a guy pretty in a bar...could be trouble (depending on orientation)

A$$hole.....use it on your best friend...term of endearment....use it on your boss...trouble.

Clown...direct it a clown..o.k....direct it at a Clone...could be trouble...but who cares.

I could go on but hopefully you get my drift...

The N word simply has different meanings depending on how it's used. That should be obvious...

 

[OnceAhawk]

Originally posted by sloehawk:

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Those saying there's a difference between blacks using the word vs whites, and that people should understand that dichotomy as it relates to American history........ I say BS!!!!!!

This is an all or nothing thing. Either the word is so toxic and its use is unacceptable to ALL, or its not. You can not have part of the population using the word as part of their pop-culture, while all others are hammered relentlessly and forever labeled as racists if they use it. No. It doesn't work like that no matter what the hip-hop homies in the hood would have you believe.

If you can say it, then I can say it. Period.

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

Agreed 100%. Either get rid or it for all, or accept the usage of it for all. Either works for me, but this "I can say it because I'm black and you can't because your white" is B.S. - plain and simple.

I got a nice chuckle out of one interview I saw with Stephen A (short for a-hole I presume....). He played the black reporter response to a black transgression card to a T. Nothing to see here folks, just young black folks doing what they do. I'm sure Stephen A considers Grant Hill a sellout.

glad you saw that video. I can guarantee you he would be outraged if a white WI player had called a KY player the N word.

hypocrite.. You can't have it both ways and when you try to have it both ways, you are a hypocrite.

 

[DanL53]

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Originally posted by sloehawk:

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Those saying there's a difference between blacks using the word vs whites, and that people should understand that dichotomy as it relates to American history........ I say BS!!!!!!

This is an all or nothing thing. Either the word is so toxic and its use is unacceptable to ALL, or its not. You can not have part of the population using the word as part of their pop-culture, while all others are hammered relentlessly and forever labeled as racists if they use it. No. It doesn't work like that no matter what the hip-hop homies in the hood would have you believe.

If you can say it, then I can say it. Period.

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

Agreed 100%. Either get rid or it for all, or accept the usage of it for all. Either works for me, but this "I can say it because I'm black and you can't because your white" is B.S. - plain and simple.

I got a nice chuckle out of one interview I saw with Stephen A (short for a-hole I presume....). He played the black reporter response to a black transgression card to a T. Nothing to see here folks, just young black folks doing what they do. I'm sure Stephen A considers Grant Hill a sellout.

glad you saw that video. I can guarantee you he would be outraged if a white WI player had called a KY player the N word.

hypocrite.. You can't have it both ways and when you try to have it both ways, you are a hypocrite.


I take back everything I've said so far!

Search: Chris Rock, Lenny Bruce, Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, Richard Prior, Dave Chappelle ......be sure to add "N" word to each search.

When you are finished, you will realize there is no dang rule on using the "N" word. No rule at all.

 

[FranklinHawk]

Originally posted by noStemsnoSTICKS:

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Those saying there's a difference between blacks using the word vs whites, and that people should understand that dichotomy as it relates to American history........ I say BS!!!!!!

This is an all or nothing thing. Either the word is so toxic and its use is unacceptable to ALL, or its not. You can not have part of the population using the word as part of their pop-culture, while all others are hammered relentlessly and forever labeled as racists if they use it. No. It doesn't work like that no matter what the hip-hop homies in the hood would have you believe.

If you can say it, then I can say it. Period.

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

Respectfully, I disagree.

My wife and I may call each other a female dog as a term of endearment. However, if an outsider refers to her or I as a female dog, there will be blood.

Same thing with the N word, in my opinion.

Apples and oranges. By "outsider" one has to assume you are talking about anyone who is not you or your wife regardless of race.

I don't necessarily have an opinion either way on this topic, but those saying "it's ok for blacks to say it because it means something different" don't really understand the definition of racism.....

 

[Titanhawk2]

Originally posted by binsfeldcyhawk2:

Originally posted by HeHateHeels:

Those saying there's a difference between blacks using the word vs whites, and that people should understand that dichotomy as it relates to American history........ I say BS!!!!!!

This is an all or nothing thing. Either the word is so toxic and its use is unacceptable to ALL, or its not. You can not have part of the population using the word as part of their pop-culture, while all others are hammered relentlessly and forever labeled as racists if they use it. No. It doesn't work like that no matter what the hip-hop homies in the hood would have you believe.

If you can say it, then I can say it. Period.

Not that I want to. I think the word should be retired to its era in history and left there. But if the very people claiming it's so offensive insist upon making it part of their every-day lexicon then they MUST accept its use by the population at large. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

There are lot's of words that people use that have different meanings/impact on who you're saying them to so I have no problem with the N word having a different impact depending on who's using it.

Examples: Sweety--use it on your daughter/wife o.k....use it on your boss...trouble.

Ginger...use it on a Ginger...could be trouble. Use it on a black guy....strange look and probably a laugh.

Call a girl "pretty"...o.k....call a guy pretty in a bar...could be trouble (depending on orientation)

A$$hole.....use it on your best friend...term of endearment....use it on your boss...trouble.

Clown...direct it a clown..o.k....direct it at a Clone...could be trouble...but who cares.

I could go on but hopefully you get my drift...

The N word simply has different meanings depending on how it's used. That should be obvious...

No, it obvious that it's not how it's used, but by whom. You could say it with the intent of the "same meaning' and find yourself hooked up to an IV.

 

[Jan Itor]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:

Originally posted by Quintana:

of course not, but to your point and in the context of the KY incident: do you think one black man saying; "what's up my n***a?" to another black man has the same connotation as a black man saying; "f*** that n***a" in regard to a white man?

of course there are different uses of the word, I just happen to think Harrison's use of it in this case is much closer to your pic #2 than your #1.

btw, has wilbon spouted off about him being a coward or a loathsome person yet? that's when we'll know its serious.

According to my "black" friends, yes it only has one meaning. As stated before, one of my friends knocked another black guy out for saying it to him (and what he said was "what's up n****" ). So it isn't just me.

Of course Wilbon won't, it's black on white not the reverse.

Well, obviously I don't know you or your "black friend", but I'm guessing you didn't understand him correctly. But it is your anecdote, so use it however you want.

Here is the problem that Quintana has:

Believing that Harrison was saying it in the manner you claim....solely because one is black and the other white, or, even in the alternative, because they are "enemies" in the context of the game.

"of course there are different uses of the word, I just happen to
think Harrison's use of it in this case is much closer to your pic #2
than your #1." Of course that could be true, but I don't think there is evidence to suggest that is correct. You can hear, or read, what he said. You have no idea what context HE is saying it in, as the question was not posed to him.

The other thing that I think is important that is being ignored is that he didn't believe he was being recorded (however dumb that was). He did not "call" Kaminsky an N, nor did he say it to others behind his back. He muttered it, in to his hand.

Is there not a HUGE difference in these three analogies?

1. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you turn around and mutter, "f*ng B*".

2. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you say, "You are a f*ng B*" before going back to work.

3. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you turn to your co-workers and say, "f*ing B*".

Those are very different, and I, personally, am not willing to attack someone solely for #1.

This Alice person sure likes to use the word "dicking". Maybe she should choose another word or possibly face sexual harassment charges?

 

[IronFist1776]

Just out of curiosity, do the propenents of the N word

fall on the liberal end of the spectrum? And the opponents on the conservative end? It'd be interesting to see how that shakes out.

 

[Vroom_C14]

Originally posted by Jan Itor:

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:

Originally posted by Quintana:

of course not, but to your point and in the context of the KY incident: do you think one black man saying; "what's up my n***a?" to another black man has the same connotation as a black man saying; "f*** that n***a" in regard to a white man?

of course there are different uses of the word, I just happen to think Harrison's use of it in this case is much closer to your pic #2 than your #1.

btw, has wilbon spouted off about him being a coward or a loathsome person yet? that's when we'll know its serious.

According to my "black" friends, yes it only has one meaning. As stated before, one of my friends knocked another black guy out for saying it to him (and what he said was "what's up n****" ). So it isn't just me.

Of course Wilbon won't, it's black on white not the reverse.

Well, obviously I don't know you or your "black friend", but I'm guessing you didn't understand him correctly. But it is your anecdote, so use it however you want.

Here is the problem that Quintana has:

Believing that Harrison was saying it in the manner you claim....solely because one is black and the other white, or, even in the alternative, because they are "enemies" in the context of the game.

"of course there are different uses of the word, I just happen to
think Harrison's use of it in this case is much closer to your pic #2
than your #1." Of course that could be true, but I don't think there is evidence to suggest that is correct. You can hear, or read, what he said. You have no idea what context HE is saying it in, as the question was not posed to him.

The other thing that I think is important that is being ignored is that he didn't believe he was being recorded (however dumb that was). He did not "call" Kaminsky an N, nor did he say it to others behind his back. He muttered it, in to his hand.

Is there not a HUGE difference in these three analogies?

1. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you turn around and mutter, "f*ng B*".

2. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you say, "You are a f*ng B*" before going back to work.

3. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you turn to your co-workers and say, "f*ing B*".

Those are very different, and I, personally, am not willing to attack someone solely for #1.

This Alice person sure likes to use the word "dicking". Maybe she should choose another word or possibly face sexual harassment charges?

So if a guy calls your wife a "F'ing C###" it has a different meaning if a women says it to her... I think not.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:
So if a guy calls your wife a "F'ing C###" it has a different meaning if a women says it to her... I think not.

You are right. Thank you for pointing out that some words have entirely different connotations and definitions than other words. Brilliant analysis.

Would you like to compile a list full of words that don't share definition/connotation of N*****?

 

[Jan Itor]

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:

Originally posted by Jan Itor:

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by Vroom_C14:

Originally posted by Quintana:

of course not, but to your point and in the context of the KY incident: do you think one black man saying; "what's up my n***a?" to another black man has the same connotation as a black man saying; "f*** that n***a" in regard to a white man?

of course there are different uses of the word, I just happen to think Harrison's use of it in this case is much closer to your pic #2 than your #1.

btw, has wilbon spouted off about him being a coward or a loathsome person yet? that's when we'll know its serious.

According to my "black" friends, yes it only has one meaning. As stated before, one of my friends knocked another black guy out for saying it to him (and what he said was "what's up n****" ). So it isn't just me.

Of course Wilbon won't, it's black on white not the reverse.

Well, obviously I don't know you or your "black friend", but I'm guessing you didn't understand him correctly. But it is your anecdote, so use it however you want.

Here is the problem that Quintana has:

Believing that Harrison was saying it in the manner you claim....solely because one is black and the other white, or, even in the alternative, because they are "enemies" in the context of the game.

"of course there are different uses of the word, I just happen to
think Harrison's use of it in this case is much closer to your pic #2
than your #1." Of course that could be true, but I don't think there is evidence to suggest that is correct. You can hear, or read, what he said. You have no idea what context HE is saying it in, as the question was not posed to him.

The other thing that I think is important that is being ignored is that he didn't believe he was being recorded (however dumb that was). He did not "call" Kaminsky an N, nor did he say it to others behind his back. He muttered it, in to his hand.

Is there not a HUGE difference in these three analogies?

1. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you turn around and mutter, "f*ng B*".

2. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you say, "You are a f*ng B*" before going back to work.

3. Sitting in your office, in walks Alice and tells you to stop dicking around and get back to work, so you turn to your co-workers and say, "f*ing B*".

Those are very different, and I, personally, am not willing to attack someone solely for #1.

This Alice person sure likes to use the word "dicking". Maybe she should choose another word or possibly face sexual harassment charges?

So if a guy calls your wife a "F'ing C###" it has a different meaning if a women says it to her... I think not.

You asking me?