Apparently, the Germans were the good guys in WWII? At least according to this moron.

[Jimmy McGill]

WWII had just a bunch of tough SOBs. The world was their obligation.

Bonespurs can't fathom the saying "service above self"

 

[jonesy5960]

It’s important to understand that Dresden ended up in the East, after WW2.

A friend of mine happened to be a young boy that lived in the east. (He was head of Interteam in Brazil and I worked for them)

The only reason I heard his story was because I made whole wheat cookies and took some to him. He took a bite and flung it across the room. He apologized and told me the story of growing up on the opposite side of the wall.

He said that the west was fed by the allies, the east had no food. He rummaged in garbage for something to eat. I’m sure that most, can’t even imagine having to do that.

I’m not surprised that the descendants would feel the way they do, much like the descendants of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

The major difference is what happened after the war. Many European allies, as well as Asians affected by the Japanese invasion, still have hostilities towards those that inflicted mass casualties.

If you handed me a whole wheat cookie I'd probably fling it across the room too.

 

[goldmom]

My grandfather was captured in the Battle of the Bulge. His tank group ran out of gas because Patton outran their logistics. One guy from his tank starved or froze to death in the camp. They lived off of rats they trapped near the end. They were in there with Serbians whose families had all been murdered by the Nazis when they learned the men were fighting with the allies.

He moved to Treasure Island with a bunch of the guys he served with, because they were scarred by the cold. I still remember visiting him when I was little and half the license plates on his street were Ex-POW plates. His plates (registration was free for ex-POWs) and the fact that he ate a stick of butter with every meal were the only signs of that part of his life.

He wouldn’t talk about it. The Battle of the Bulge and the aftermath were bad stuff.

My Dad had sort of a similar experience. He was with the Second Armored Hell on Wheels tank division. A 19 year old kid and the eldest of ten who’d never been out of New York, the son of Irish immigrants. He was in France and one Saturday he helped the company chaplain serve Mass. As he was walking away when the Mass was over he got a few hundred yards from the truck where the priest was when a mortar shell came in and hit the truck and the priest. Pieces of the priests body landed all around my Dad along with the truck. He told me about it one night when I was grown and he started crying as he talked.

Came home with a lot of back pay plus money he and some of his buddies made when they went to Switzerland one weekend and pooled some money to buy a bunch of watches from several Swiss jewelers who were happy to see American dollars. They then sold them to British and Russian soldiers in Berlin and came home with enough cash to head down to Miami where they stayed drunk and partied for a year. That was as close to therapy as any of them got for their PTSD which no one knew about in 1946.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

My Dad had sort of a similar experience. He was with the Second Armored Hell on Wheels tank division.
Came home with a lot of back pay plus money he and some of his buddies made when they went to Switzerland one weekend and pooled some money to buy a bunch of watches from several Swiss jewelers who were happy to see American dollars. They then sold them to British and Russian soldiers in Berlin and came home with enough cash to head down to Miami where they stayed drunk and partied for a year. That was as close to therapy as any of them got for their PTSD which no one knew about in 1946.

Yes, they knew about PTSD. They just called it by a different term.

 

[goldmom]

Yes, they knew about PTSD. They just called it by a different term.

I think a couple of terms - battle fatigue was one.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

I think a couple of terms - battle fatigue was one.

shell schock

 

[bcherod]

I think a couple of terms - battle fatigue was one.

Shell shock.

 

[pjhawk]

To be fair, the fire bombing of Dresden's civilian population is indefensible.

It was a FAFO. Just like the atomic bombs. That's how its defensible.

But you probably (hah! I make myself laugh!) support the dropping of the atomic bombs while to you the deaths of members of the Aryan master race for any reason is indefensible.

 

[preshlock]

I think a couple of terms - battle fatigue was one.

I'm trying to think of the book I read over 20 years ago for a Roman History class. But the Roman Army knew about PTSD, people are people.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

It was a FAFO. Just like the atomic bombs. That's how its defensible.

But you probably (hah! I make myself laugh!) support the dropping of the atomic bombs while to you the deaths of members of the Aryan master race for any reason is indefensible.

If only you were well read.

Same with Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I sort of lean that way but not absolutely

All three are indefensible.

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

It was a FAFO. Just like the atomic bombs. That's how its defensible.

No matter how much revenge you seek, firebombing women and children is never defensible.

 

[mnole03]

No matter how much revenge you seek, firebombing women and children is never defensible.

I don’t agree with revenge as a motivation in war.

The end of WW2 was total war. The only way to save civilians was through German capitulation.

Before his suicide, Hitler ordered the destruction of any useful infrastructure and for the war to be conducted without consideration for German civilians. Jojo Rabbit was pretty accurate about the Battle of Berlin in that they literally handed children Panzerfausts and grenades and told them to do their duty. They put children 10+ on artillery. The civilian death toll in Berlin was significantly higher than in Dresden.

 

[bcherod]

I don’t agree with revenge as a motivation in war.

The end of WW2 was total war. The only way to save civilians was through German capitulation.

Before his Suicide, Hitler ordered the destruction of any useful infrastructure and for the war to be conducted without consideration for German civilians. Jojo Rabbit was pretty accurate about the Battle of Berlin in that they literally handed children Panzerfausts and grenades and told them to do their duty. The civilian death toll in Berlin was significantly higher than in Dresden.

Thank you for the history lesson. I did not know this My specialty in history is colonial.

 

[goldmom]

Thank you for the history lesson. I did not know this My specialty in history is colonial.

Did you take any of Ammerman’s Williamsburg courses?

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

I don’t agree with revenge as a motivation in war.

The end of WW2 was total war. The only way to save civilians was through German capitulation.

Before his suicide, Hitler ordered the destruction of any useful infrastructure and for the war to be conducted without consideration for German civilians. Jojo Rabbit was pretty accurate about the Battle of Berlin in that they literally handed children Panzerfausts and grenades and told them to do their duty. They put children 10+ on artillery. The civilian death toll in Berlin was significantly higher than in Dresden.

You simply can't campare Berlin, the heart and leadership of fanaticism, with other German cities.

 

[mnole03]

You simply can't campare Berlin, the heart and leadership of fanaticism, with other German cities.

80k civilians were killed in the Siege of Breslau, a city smaller than Dresden.

 

[GolfHacker1]

Thank you for the history lesson. I did not know this My specialty in history is colonial.

Back to being a historian today I see. Why didn't you ever respond when I posted links about Jack Smith's prosecutorial misconduct? Let me answer for you. You are used to not being questioned on here (it's an echo chamber filled full of wishful thinking), even when you are obviously incorrect. Which happens a lot.

 

[preshlock]

Allied bombing killed around 500,000 Germans that number is pretty widely agreed upon

However the number of German civilians killed during the Red Army advance on the Eastern Provinces is widely debated and ranges from 300,000 to over 2,000,000. From what I've read the number is probably around 1,000,000.

Keep in mind that when Dresden was bombed the Red Army had invaded East Prussia, Silesia, & reached Frankfurt-am-Oder about 50 miles from Berlin. In the west the Allied armies were still west of the Rhine River. Overall about 10-15% of Germany had actually been conquered by mid-February 1945. At the time the Germans were still putting up tough & effective defense.

 

[GolfHacker1]

Allied bombing killed around 500,000 Germans that number is pretty widely agreed upon

However the number of German civilians killed during the Red Army advance on the Eastern Provinces is widely debated and ranges from 300,000 to over 2,000,000. From what I've read the number is probably around 1,000,000.

Keep in mind that when Dresden was bombed the Red Army had invaded East Prussia, Silesia, & reached Frankfurt-am-Oder about 50 miles from Berlin. In the west the Allied armies were still west of the Rhine River. Overall about 10-15% of Germany had actually been conquered by mid-February 1945. At the time the Germans were still putting up tough & effective defense.

Better check with @bcherod as she is an expert historian today. Better ask quickly though, she might be back to a legal expert, or whatever other identity she assumes. It changes quickly some days. She does a fair job with Google searches. When she is caught making things up she disappears. And when asked for links to her lies, she also disappears. That way she never loses a fallacious argument. Not that she would on this echo chamber anyway.