Are Gay Men Misogynists?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I'm seeing a growing hostility from some lefty women toward Bernie Sanders.

Most recently, this was expressed when Bernie said he wasn't surprised when Planned Parenthood and some other prominent women's group endorsed Hillary, suggesting that they are part of the Dem "establishment" and it makes sense that they would endorse the establishment candidate.

That was taken as an attack on women and women's groups. And in its more extreme form, I was told that men who prefer Bernie over Hillary just don't and never will recognize their closet misogyny.

To which I responded by referring to this piece by Glenn Greenwald:

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/31...squerading-as-journalism-and-social-activism/

That was greeted with silence. I suspect they thought it proved their point.

But I find myself wondering if liberal women - often the loudest supporters of gay rights among the hetero community - think that gay men are misogynists. I mean they don't like women, right?

Sure, I'm suggesting that partly in jest. But only partly. Like it or not, men are always going to be susceptible to the argument that, at some deep level, we'll never really understand how a woman feels. But at least most of us want to, and spend a lot of our lives trying to figure women out.

 

[The Tradition]

Paging natural.....

 

[KitingHigh]

some yes, some no.

 

[The Tradition]

I don't think it's fair to accuse gay men of "not liking" women. Sure, they're not sexually attracted to women, but they seem to love hanging around with women, talking about clothes, and interior design, and generally gossiping about people. And women seem to love hanging around gay guys, too, because they're not threatened by them... no worries that the guy will want to take "friendship" to the next level.

Heck, there was even a movie about this:

 

[KitingHigh]

I don't think it's fair to accuse gay men of "not liking" women. Sure, they're not sexually attracted to women, but they seem to love hanging around with women, talking about clothes, and interior design, and generally gossiping about people. And women seem to love hanging around gay guys, too, because they're not threatened by them... no worries that the guy will want to take "friendship" to the next level.

Heck, there was even a movie about this:

I have a gay friend and my wife has a gay uncle that are not interested in hanging with girls and gossiping. They do guy stuff and act like regular guys and you wouldn't ever guess they were gay if you didn't know. The uncle is married and his partner fits the stereotype you described exactly. He dresses flamboyantly and at family events always does the women stuff with the ladies. They totally fit the roles of husband and wife. It's a lot like The Birdcage. I've also met gay guys that don't really like women at all and think less of them than any straight guy ever could.

 

[thewop]

I'm seeing a growing hostility from some lefty women toward Bernie Sanders.

Most recently, this was expressed when Bernie said he wasn't surprised when Planned Parenthood and some other prominent women's group endorsed Hillary, suggesting that they are part of the Dem "establishment" and it makes sense that they would endorse the establishment candidate.

That was taken as an attack on women and women's groups. And in its more extreme form, I was told that men who prefer Bernie over Hillary just don't and never will recognize their closet misogyny.

To which I responded by referring to this piece by Glenn Greenwald:

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/31...squerading-as-journalism-and-social-activism/

That was greeted with silence. I suspect they thought it proved their point.

But I find myself wondering if liberal women - often the loudest supporters of gay rights among the hetero community - think that gay men are misogynists. I mean they don't like women, right?

Sure, I'm suggesting that partly in jest. But only partly. Like it or not, men are always going to be susceptible to the argument that, at some deep level, we'll never really understand how a woman feels. But at least most of us want to, and spend a lot of our lives trying to figure women out.

Most gay men I've ever known had great relationships with women. They're great sounding boards for all your relationship questions regarding women, and are securely locked into the "Friend zone" with the ladies, so they won't steal your woman either. Lefty women (ball-hating lesbians) have never been a favorite group of mine, they can take their ill-conceived view of gay men and shove it (I think they'd like that anyway).

 

[BrianNole09]

I have a gay friend and my wife has a gay uncle that are not interested in hanging with girls and gossiping. They do guy stuff and act like regular guys and you wouldn't ever guess they were gay if you didn't know. The uncle is married and his partner fits the stereotype you described exactly. He dresses flamboyantly and at family events always does the women stuff with the ladies. They totally fit the roles of husband and wife. It's a lot like The Birdcage. I've also met gay guys that don't really like women at all and think less of them than any straight guy ever could.

What reason did the gay guys give you for disliking women?

 

[KitingHigh]

What reason did the gay guys give you for disliking women?

I didn't really get into deep discussions with them. These were people I met out with my friends. In a nutshell they just made it clear that women pretty much disgust them in every way. Kinda like the male equivalent of an uber feminist lesbian. Funny enough I met them when out wife my girlfriend and her "girlfriend" (gay co worker fitting the stereotype trad posted). Maybe Natural can explain. I'm not an expert by any means.

 

[naturalmwa]

How did gay get weaved into the OP logic string? Bernie isn't gay, PP isn't gay and gay activists aren't mentioned in the OP. This thread appears built on a suspect premise. Now Bernie did support gay rights long before Hillary. So any preference the gay community might have for Bernie is certainly logical, but that wasn't even the point of the OP.

 

[IamHawkeye]

I'm seeing a growing hostility from some lefty women toward Bernie Sanders.

Most recently, this was expressed when Bernie said he wasn't surprised when Planned Parenthood and some other prominent women's group endorsed Hillary, suggesting that they are part of the Dem "establishment" and it makes sense that they would endorse the establishment candidate.

That was taken as an attack on women and women's groups. And in its more extreme form, I was told that men who prefer Bernie over Hillary just don't and never will recognize their closet misogyny.

To which I responded by referring to this piece by Glenn Greenwald:

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/31...squerading-as-journalism-and-social-activism/

That was greeted with silence. I suspect they thought it proved their point.

But I find myself wondering if liberal women - often the loudest supporters of gay rights among the hetero community - think that gay men are misogynists. I mean they don't like women, right?

Sure, I'm suggesting that partly in jest. But only partly. Like it or not, men are always going to be susceptible to the argument that, at some deep level, we'll never really understand how a woman feels. But at least most of us want to, and spend a lot of our lives trying to figure women out.

Didn't read the article but gay men are quite often good friends with women. And stereotypically adore their mothers.

 

[KitingHigh]

How did gay get weaved into the OP logic string? Bernie isn't gay, PP isn't gay and gay activists aren't mentioned in the OP. This thread appears built on a suspect premise. Now Bernie did support gay rights long before Hillary. So any preference the gay community might have for Bernie is certainly logical, but that wasn't even the point of the OP.

Dunno, but we knew the claim of misogyny was forthcoming. It's no different than the claims of racism against those who don't like Obama.

 

[BrianNole09]

How did gay get weaved into the OP logic string? Bernie isn't gay, PP isn't gay and gay activists aren't mentioned in the OP. This thread appears built on a suspect premise. Now Bernie did support gay rights long before Hillary. So any preference the gay community might have for Bernie is certainly logical, but that wasn't even the point of the OP.

Do many gay men dislike women and if so, why?

 

[naturalmwa]

Do many gay men dislike women and if so, why?

Not in my experience. While we don't want to sleep with them, the notion that women are inferior, deserving of less consideration or are here to serve isn't a widely held belief IMO. The opinion that women are heroic, worthy of being idolized or especially praised is much more common in the gay circles I move in. Now all that said, women aren't at the top of our food pyramid so thinking on them for ill or good is rather secondary.

 

[naturalmwa]

I didn't really get into deep discussions with them. These were people I met out with my friends. In a nutshell they just made it clear that women pretty much disgust them in every way. Kinda like the male equivalent of an uber feminist lesbian. Funny enough I met them when out wife my girlfriend and her "girlfriend" (gay co worker fitting the stereotype trad posted). Maybe Natural can explain. I'm not an expert by any means.

I've seen two flavors of this this. You have the almost juvenile vag is icky reaction, often exaggerated for effect. Then you have the exaggerated masculinity guy who feeds off testosterone like a drug. Some in the gay community take a sort of pride in having been with women at some point in their sexual exploration. Some take the opposite view where they are proud that they came to terms early. As with most groups that share just one thing in common, you will have variety.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

How did gay get weaved into the OP logic string? Bernie isn't gay, PP isn't gay and gay activists aren't mentioned in the OP. This thread appears built on a suspect premise. Now Bernie did support gay rights long before Hillary. So any preference the gay community might have for Bernie is certainly logical, but that wasn't even the point of the OP.

It was a follow-on thought from the experience of being told I really can't get it (the woman's point of view on Bernie's establishment comment) because I'm a man. Sort of like saying if you disagree with a black person you must be a racist unless you are black.

So that just made me wonder if the crime of not being a woman, might apply even more so to gay men. Gay men, of course, face their own kind of discrimination. But also being a victim of discrimination doesn't mean you "get" someone else's victimhood.

So then I thought of you and your acquiescence to the argument that women aren't really discriminated against in the workplace. And I imagined that if you tried to explain to these same liberal women that they are wrong about women being unfairly under-compensated, you would probably be told that you are a misogynist and can't understand because you are a man, and can't even sympathize because your rights as a gay man are now protected.

 

[naturalmwa]

It was a follow-on thought from the experience of being told I really can't get it (the woman's point of view on Bernie's establishment comment) because I'm a man. Sort of like saying if you disagree with a black person you must be a racist unless you are black.

So that just made me wonder if the crime of not being a woman, might apply even more so to gay men. Gay men, of course, face their own kind of discrimination. But also being a victim of discrimination doesn't mean you "get" someone else's victimhood.

So then I thought of you and your acquiescence to the argument that women aren't really discriminated against in the workplace. And I imagined that if you tried to explain to these same liberal women that they are wrong about women being unfairly under-compensated, you would probably be told that you are a misogynist and can't understand because you are a man, and can't even sympathize because your rights as a gay man are now protected.

I didn't realize the charge of gender workplace discrimination was one based on feelings. If that is what proponents are trying to communicate with all the talk about equal pay, the message has gotten lost with the focus on money. See I thought the discrimination was one based on wage data. Wage data that must be deliberately manipulated to get the results the proponents claim. Wage data that if controlled for non-gender factors that traditionally determine wage rates like education and time on the job favors females.

I do appreciate that the motivation for this was a thought that gay men are more masculine than hetero men as the opposite view is often expressed. I'd correct you however. Gay rights in the workplace or other public spheres are not protected universally but gender rights are.

 

[Greenway4Prez]

If I were a gay man, I'd be pretty annoyed with straight, white women following me around like a puppy.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

It's pretty ironic that the dems are now having to deal with this BS within it's own party.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I didn't realize the charge of gender workplace discrimination was one based on feelings. If that is what proponents are trying to communicate with all the talk about equal pay, the message has gotten lost with the focus on money. See I thought the discrimination was one based on wage data. Wage data that must be deliberately manipulated to get the results the proponents claim. Wage data that if controlled for non-gender factors that traditionally determine wage rates like education and time on the job favors females.

I do appreciate that the motivation for this was a thought that gay men are more masculine than hetero men as the opposite view is often expressed. I'd correct you however. Gay rights in the workplace or other public spheres are not protected universally but gender rights are.

I was hypothesizing the woman's point of view, not expressing my own. Not being a woman, I obviously have no competence at it - at least that's what I'm told on the Hillary-vs-Bernie thing - so take my hypothesizing with a grain of salt.

 

[Jan Itor]

How did gay get weaved into the OP logic string? Bernie isn't gay, PP isn't gay and gay activists aren't mentioned in the OP. This thread appears built on a suspect premise. Now Bernie did support gay rights long before Hillary. So any preference the gay community might have for Bernie is certainly logical, but that wasn't even the point of the OP.

OP = Homophobic.

 

[moral_victory]

I have a gay friend and my wife has a gay uncle that are not interested in hanging with girls and gossiping. They do guy stuff and act like regular guys and you wouldn't ever guess they were gay if you didn't know.

Sounds awesome.

 

[Herkmeister]

Isn't this just another effort to categorize people?

Any person who knows a woman well has had a problem with her at some point.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

It's pretty ironic that the dems are now having to deal with this BS within it's own party.

Yep. Crappy thought processes may be owned by the right, but some on the left lease the rights.

It's embarrassing.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Yep. Crappy thought processes may be owned by the right, but some on the left lease the rights.

It's embarrassing.

Uh huh.

 

[The Tradition]

Yep. Crappy thought processes may be owned by the right, but some on the left lease the rights.

It's embarrassing.

Yeah, kinda like the delusion that we can control the climate.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Yeah, kinda like the delusion that we can control the climate.

Again, educate yourself.

Unless of course you enjoy being willfully ignorant and having every sensible person feel embarrassed for you.

You have mental bad breath on this. And we are telling you. Please do something about it.

 

[The Tradition]

Again, educate yourself.

Unless of course you enjoy being willfully ignorant and having every sensible person feel embarrassed for you.

You have mental bad breath on this. And we are telling you. Please do something about it.

You're a member of the Church of Climate Change. I don't expect you to be able to have rational thoughts about this.

If you really think controlling a single variable will enable us to maintain a Goldilocks climate, then you're the one who needs mental mouthwash.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

You're a member of the Church of Climate Change. I don't expect you to be able to have rational thoughts about this.

If you really think controlling a single variable will enable us to maintain a Goldilocks climate, then you're the one who needs mental mouthwash.

Again, an educated, honest person wouldn't make such dumb statements.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Again, an educated, honest person wouldn't make such dumb statements.

One man's "education and honesty" is another man's naivety.

 

[The Tradition]

Again, an educated, honest person wouldn't make such dumb statements.

Again, a rational person certainly would make such obviously-true statements.

We can do this all day.

You're dumb

You're delusional

Nanny-nanny-boo-boo

Insulting people and calling them dumb doesn't win a debate. It just proves you have nothing to bring to the table except slurs.

You're like the Donald Trump of the left.

 

[IACub]

How the hell did a thread about sexist gay men turn into a climate change debate?

 

[naturalmwa]

Again, a rational person certainly would make such obviously-true statements.

We can do this all day.

You're dumb

You're delusional

Nanny-nanny-boo-boo

Insulting people and calling them dumb doesn't win a debate. It just proves you have nothing to bring to the table except slurs.

You're like the Donald Trump of the left.

While I support this change of topic, this isn't a debate. Neither of us or most posters here have any unique take on the climate change topic. All we can do is report what the experts think. And the experts agree the debate is resolved in favor of AGW being real and significant. What's left is to change outcomes and on that front name calling can play a role.

 

[naturalmwa]

How the hell did a thread about sexist gay men turn into a climate change debate?

I can see how thinking about this could heat the place up.

 

[The Tradition]

How the hell did a thread about sexist gay men turn into a climate change debate?

Par for the course on this forum.

 

[IACub]

I can see how thinking about this could heat the place up.

/Screeching halt.

 

[naturalmwa]

/Screeching halt.

If it works, I'm going to post that anytime I want the last word.

 

[The Tradition]

I can see how thinking about this could heat the place up.

Great, now I'm going to have to call myself into the HR office and have some explaining to do....

 

[naturalmwa]

Great, now I'm going to have to call myself into the HR office and have some explaining to do....

If spanking is involved, I'll help. I'm more masochist than misogynists.

 

[lawsonhawk]

I can see how thinking about this could heat the place up.

I'm going home . . .