Bohannon ran the offense very well considering he's a FR. It was his and Jok's contributions (or lack there of) on the other end that cost us. We can survive with 1 poor defensive guard. No more.
Athletic PG need
- Thread starter ryno99
- Start date
We just had a poster today asking who Bohannon made better on the team. And just yesterday I brought back a post from a frequent poster who claimed that everybody on the team aside from Jok and Cook were MVC seventh and eighth guys.
As to emotions, don't you think it might be disingenuous to even bring something up like that? I'm just expressing my views.
I think the truth lies in between but explain how this Iowa team won 4 straight games 2 of which were on the road against top 4 league teams with 2 defensive liabilities on the floor which they both were?
The interesting thing is red-hot Minnesota with a very good point guard in Mason went into Wisconsin after us and got beat 66-49. The game was played in March even?
Some nights other good teams struggle. The BIG is not very good this year. Case in point, we got destroyed by Indiana in the BTT. If you can explain how we got destroyed by a mediocre Indiana team with 2 very good defensive guards like Jok and Bohannon...I'd love to hear it. We gave up 60% in FG and 3pt FG percentage to an 18-14, 7-11 BIG team.
Certainly keeping us from winning the league or making a run in March...games that actually matter.
There you have it then, it's a guarantee that JBo's production and stats will increase while being the only PG on the team while having to also play defense against more athletic PGs the next 3 years. Why utilize his strength of shooting and moving ball around and instead make him break down a defense, get layups, and dish it out. Since that is resolved, how's PG play been the prior 6 seasons?
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Can you explain how a 7-11 team also lost to Fort Wayne but beat Kansas and Kentucky? How is that possible? Same team beat the regular season winners of 2 power 5/6 leagues but lost to Fort Wayne!
My explanation for the BTT is that Indiana was hot from the perimeter and got the ball inside effectively too for easy baskets. Cook was in foul trouble, Jok did not hit and Baer had probably his worst game in several months. Add their pluses against our minuses and we got wiped out.
The problem for Indiana is those kind of performances have not been repeatable over consecutive games but that's not a typical 7-11 team devoid of talent even without OG.
I think this also shows you can win a lot of games when you hit shots more so than just being a great defensive team. Teams that win in the big dance make big shots. You see it year after year. I'd rather error on that side which is why I like a guy like Bohannen.
Add in VS didn't play more than a couple minutes in last game because his back pain flared up. His length caused Indian problems in the previous Indian game
Indiana doesn't play defense. Kentucky doesn't play defense. When you don't play defense and rely on "big shots", you have inconsistency. A good coach once told me "defense and effort are something you can provide every single night, no matter what happens. You're gonna have nights where the ball won't go in the basket but those nights will be much worse when you don't play defense too". Its something I repeat to young basketball players all the time.
Defensive is important but the teams that win in the NCAA make shots more than they play big time D. If it were a big time D exhibition Wisconsin and Virginia would square off for the title every year.
Wisconsin and Virginia have gotten farther in the past few seasons than we have in the past few decades. Probably not the argument I would make ......But you go ahead.
Defense is something you can bring even when the shots are not falling. Iowa needs to improve its man-to-man defense. I also think all the trapping we do ends up giving teams with patience a lot of wide open 3pt looks. Jok was not a good defensive player, Moss seemed to get better/give more effort towards end of season. Bohannon needs to play better on defense.
Maybe should get 5 or 6 point guards and who needs the rest of the team? At least the games I saw that were blowouts NO DEFENSE and LITTLE REBOUNDING seemed to go hand in hand. Most teams don't shoot over 45% and by limiting them to one shot goes a long way toward winning or giving yourself a chance to win. Very few fast breaks don't start out without a rebound first. (But this an old wrestlers point of view).
Mid majors...acouple
Good God the dumb that has taken over some people must be burdensome....JB is NOT a 2 guard and never was recruited to be a 2 guard. Ignorance is not a reason to post stupid stuff on here....just read a book about something other than basketball. I can not go on....
There are so few of those guys it is alarming that you think they are everywhere. JB outplayed almost every PG that he faced. You and Sadie are throwing out guys like Tyus from Omaha???? HE TURNS THE BALL OVER AT ALMOST TWICE THE RATE THAT HE ASSISTS!!! You have an archaic definition of basketball if you think that is the PG's job before anything else.
Or maybe we can have someone who can help defend in the middle or at the rim once their guy gets into the lane?
Wisky made the finals when they had 2 NBA picks and that team scored the ball. There were few 50 PT slobber knickers those years. Watch Wisky's runs and they hit big shots. Virginia had a high seed a couple of years ago and got knocked out by MSU.
If we have a team that can score the ball we'll advance.
PJ's effort in the Indiana game was very poor, to say the least. If PJ is injured and/or won't give good effort on the defensive end, Fran needs to sit him. I have been a PJ believer, but his effort in the Indiana BTT tournament game was beyond bad, imo.
Pretty much all the teams that make the sweet 16 play good D, except for the occasional fluke years where you get a cake walk like ISU last year.
You have to do both, to win it all. Nobodys just shooting their way to a title.
I agree with this. Somewhere, and I'm not going to go back and look, I remember reading that teams that do well in the Tournament tend to have both offensive and defensive ratings no higher than in the low 30's on Kenpom.
We'll see if it works out that way again this year.
Moss will be a good player next year and most improved Hawkeye. He just need to ask what marble did to improve throughout his career i see them having similar careers and similar in so many ways. I think athletically they are the same, around the same height, but did marble have a bigger wingspan?
I remember when i saw his high school highlights it looked at times it was marble in high school. But it wouldn't hurt to have another guy who can score off the dribble and drive.
Once moss can shoot he will be a first teamer once he's a senior. Iowa might have a record of 1st/2nd/3rd teamers when this group is seniors. Bet next year he's around 33 from 3 next year and improves 3-4 percent each year from 3.
I remember when i saw his high school highlights it looked at times it was marble in high school. But it wouldn't hurt to have another guy who can score off the dribble and drive.
Once moss can shoot he will be a first teamer once he's a senior. Iowa might have a record of 1st/2nd/3rd teamers when this group is seniors. Bet next year he's around 33 from 3 next year and improves 3-4 percent each year from 3.
Ok for fun. Fran typical point guard is a player who can drive with his right hand not penetrate or score at the rim. One player he had couldn't hit the lake if he was standing in a boat. But his upside was he was straight line fast and fairly good defensive player. His other point guard can shoot lights out but can only go to the right is not as fast is a liability with defense. I will give JBO his due but if anybody thinks he is a true point maybe should go back to basketball 101. You only go as far as your point guard will take you. when your offense breaks down you better have a point guard who can take it off the dribble. If you could combine CW and JBO then you are talking. CW can't shoot and JBO can't take it off the dribble.
Name one instance or game that he couldn't...or is that your assumption? In the Iowa system (see everyone has one) the PG is not that type of player. JB just had one of the most prolific Freshman PG seasons in the HISTORY of the program! He is in elite company in many combined statistics in the WHOLE COUNTRY! His ability to run the offense to get the best shot is his job. Being efficient and and asset to your team is more important...but I guess you would rather have a out of control drive to the rim 10 times a game with no flow (which yields no o-rebounding position). Sadie...you are way off base on this one. Are there more "athletic" PG running around in college basketball???? SURE! But JB is a very good freshman PG who RAN the basketball team as good as anyone in Iowa history.
We're really wasting our time with Sadie. If you look at what he/she seems to think are points, they are really just demands that Iowa have Ronnie Lester back. Who wouldn't like him back? In the meantime we gotta cut down the best point guard we have by focusing on what he doesn't do well. Doesn't matter how well Bohannon actually did, he doesn't even get to be called a point guard.
There's no fixing stupid.
Nobody seemed to be saying too much about our guard play when Iowa won its four games in a road, including wins at Maryland and Wisconsin ... Or when we beat Indiana at home ... or when we almost won at Minnesota ...
I understand the other side of the argument about our current PG situation ... I think we are going to be fine at PG ... with JB leading the way ...
I understand the other side of the argument about our current PG situation ... I think we are going to be fine at PG ... with JB leading the way ...
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He shot 35% from 3 this year.
In not sure why people keep saying he cant shoot.
Moss is a couple inches shorter but more athletic and a better finisher than Marble ever was.
His overal offensive arsenal is not nearly as good yet though. Marble had better handles, better passer and could do allot more mid range stuff.
Moss reminds me more of Ricky Davis, but not quite as athletic.
Interesting comparison. I'll have to admit that I still don't know exactly what to think Moss might become. I think he has a world of upside and he could become a defensive stopper, a scorer, even a guy that helps facilitate the offense. Just depends on how hard he works at it.
Not a criticism, but a concern, that it took some problems with guys that were playing ahead of him before he got his chance on the court. Coupled with games where he disappeared, only to be found sitting on the bench for long periods? To be quite honest I'm sensing a guy who is a gamer with loads of talent, but not bringing it every day.
And I hope I am wrong. I hope I am extremely wrong. We need him to develop, more dare I say it, than we need an athletic point guard.
Does not look in the best of shape to me....that might be the reason with some lapses mentally. He does have a huge upside to be a ...................2 guardInteresting comparison. I'll have to admit that I still don't know exactly what to think Moss might become. I think he has a world of upside and he could become a defensive stopper, a scorer, even a guy that helps facilitate the offense. Just depends on how hard he works at it.
Not a criticism, but a concern, that it took some problems with guys that were playing ahead of him before he got his chance on the court. Coupled with games where he disappeared, only to be found sitting on the bench for long periods? To be quite honest I'm sensing a guy who is a gamer with loads of talent, but not bringing it every day.
And I hope I am wrong. I hope I am extremely wrong. We need him to develop, more dare I say it, than we need an athletic point guard.
There's only one statistic in basketball that matters and that is 18-14. If that to you is elite then I'm all in. Just like Mike Gessel how many games did he win in the NCAA tournament? I hear the same arguments from the same posters. Say one bad thing about Mike and you got blasted. JBO is what he is But running the team as good as anyone in Iowa history LOL
90% of the time offense is not our problem...been that way Fran's entire time here. Although I agree having someone who can create a shot for himself and others would be great, I don't think that person needs to necessarily play PG and I don't think that having that person solves the issues our teams have had.
He's sitting at 35% this year, do you expect his % to dip next year?
Did Kobe play PG? It doesn't necessarily have to be a PG that needs to make a play off the dribble when the offense breaks down. Plus with Bohannon's ability he can just splash a three with a player right on top of him when the offense breaks down.
Goons? Do better in the future.
Connor McCaffery will be joining the Iowa program next year and provide assistance at the point guard position. Yes, he's a point guard.
It's interesting to read the desire to move Bohannon off the ball by many here. I mean, he's already set the single season record for assists by a freshman in Iowa basketball history. Given his ability to shoot coupled with the ability to pass the ball and limit turnovers, I'd think you would want him with the ball in his hands. And, he's always played his best since I've been watching him with the ball in his hands.
It's just laughable to say Hawks need to move JoBo to shooting guard and bring in an athletic "pass first" pg. The only starting "athletic pass first" pg I can think of in the B1G right now is Tum Tum Nairn( no thanks). Yes I'd love to have a quick as lightning athletic pg like Anthoney Cowan at Maryland but the were only able to play him and slide Trimble over to the 2 because Melo can defend at the 2. You can move JoBo over for some short stints but no way can you play man to man D with JoBo on a SG. The backup pg is a concern and may STILL be a weakness next year but it's crazy to say JoBo is a 2 unless the Hawks bring in Denzel Valentine to run the point but remember even the JoBo will have to more than likely defend the oppositions pg.
You guys stick to your fantasy world and I will live in reality. The reality is 2 NCAA wins in 7 years, a track record of choking in the BTT, and defensive struggles that last 3/4 of the year. If we could defend a little bit on the perimeter or had a guard who inflict the type of damage to others we get inflicted upon us, we would be in the NCAA tournament.
To be crystal clear, Bohannon exceeded my wildest expectations and I was w r o n g about his ability to contribute. With that being said, he cannot be the sole answer at PG for the next 3 years if you want to see Iowa make the tournament. He needs a back up or a co-point guard to help defend the guys he can't defend and to do give us a a dribble drive threat. Right now we fall off the cliff if CW or BE enter the game.
You and DanL are quick to critique everyone, but offer nothing in the way of intelligent responses. You both whine and snivel like little kids, then revert to the archives to prove you have nothing else to do.
Here is my challenge to you and your cohort. You tell me what happens when Bohannon rolls an ankle, gets the flu, gets in foul trouble, or has guys in his jersey next year without Jok. Since neither of you read for retention, let me reiterate this is not an anti-Bohannon statement. I am focusing on the team getting to the NCAA Tournament and having a chance to win 2 games. How do we get better if our backup PG is Williams or Ellingson, or Connor? Or is next year already about year 9?
The time honored tradition of fans running players off is underway on the message boards! Tom Crean approves.
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