working with an L-shaped living room/dining room combo (with a fireplace about where i'd really want to put the set up). not a terribly large area, so pulling these off the wall more the 1' would look awkward.
Audio guys - who is up for being peppered with a million questions?
- Thread starter sultanofsuede
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working with an L-shaped living room/dining room combo (with a fireplace about where i'd really want to put the set up). not a terribly large area, so pulling these off the wall more the 1' would look awkward.
i had to share this (just so you guys know that i'm not some lazy leach, and only relying on HR for info)
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/157475/rti8-or-monitor-75t
its a discussion of the comparison between the speakers i'm bouncing around.....
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/157475/rti8-or-monitor-75t
its a discussion of the comparison between the speakers i'm bouncing around.....
Pretty good discussion. Appears you are leaning toward the more popular model. I think they mention the speakers require 20-25 watts and despite what the one person said, you should be fine with the Marantz and its 90 watts into the front and center channels. (I use my receiver in phantom anyway so don't spend any power there.)
Also saw where you asked about wires. That subject can cause a lot of arguments but if you buy regular 14-16 gauge speaker wire (no higher) you should be fine. I have a roll I bought on Amazon probably 10 years ago and still am using that for some situations. (Though I admit I have tried making my own wire as well as buying the less expensive exotic brands as an experiment.)
Also saw where you asked about wires. That subject can cause a lot of arguments but if you buy regular 14-16 gauge speaker wire (no higher) you should be fine. I have a roll I bought on Amazon probably 10 years ago and still am using that for some situations. (Though I admit I have tried making my own wire as well as buying the less expensive exotic brands as an experiment.)
I see the B(right) word was mentioned by the one guy. Polk gets some of that sometimes- though not in comparison to something like Klipsch, for example. Some of it could/can be system matching. Brighter electronics and harsh or compressed recordings wouldn't help. Again, I think the Marantz should be a helper and not a hindrance.
Bass, especially as in low bass from a sub, also balances things out.
The room is a big factor, too. Hard floors, stark furnishings can be deadly in terms of brightness. Carpet, couches, books, etc damps things and a little treble boost helps avoid being too mellow or even dead.
I bought Little Chip a pair of RTi4s- the baby of the family- a few years ago when he blew another speaker. They seemed like the deal of the day then at $150. I got to play with them in my basement for a few weeks and liked them pretty well. They had an extended treble, but it seemed smooth and didn't "hurt". (I've always reacted to excessive treble like a vampire to light.) The current models in the line seem to have more upper treble boost.
This was about the only major mag review of that 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 series.
http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1004polk/index.html
good to know, chip - i'm kind of the same way with treble. i like some clarity, and i'm not looking to make sure my neighbors know i have bass for the sake of everyone else's hearing - but i do like a deeper sound. sounds like getting those ebay polks and adding a sub would be right in my sweet spot (cost and sound combo).
for the time being, i'm hooking up some early 80's RTR exp-8's. nosed around my dads basement and came up with these. i used to turn these up to 11 as a kid when my dad wasn't home, so we'll see how they sound for a few weeks.....
for the time being, i'm hooking up some early 80's RTR exp-8's. nosed around my dads basement and came up with these. i used to turn these up to 11 as a kid when my dad wasn't home, so we'll see how they sound for a few weeks.....
i can't really tell which one is the most popular set. i'm leaning toward the ebay set, i guess i could throw out an offer on the local polks and see if it is too good of a deal to pass up. probably throw out a figure and if they don't like it, i'll order that set of ebay (probably the better thing to do either way)
h
One thing about the RTi8s is that, if they didn't suit your taste or you just decided to try something else, you should be able to get a big chunk of the investment back, assuming you don't throw crap at it during Hawkeye games.
I think a foot from the wall would be OK, though probably not ideal. But you'll have that issue with most any floor stander- even the smaller Pioneers. I tend to think that the speaker with fewer drivers would create less potential for boominess or muddiness. A too big speaker in a too small a room just can't perform as designed. You don't get the full "picture" if you have to sit too closely to a big 'un, for example, in addition to issues of bass and tonal balance. The only thing worse than not enough bass is too much, or at least it can be.
One thing about the RTi8s is that, if they didn't suit your taste or you just decided to try something else, you should be able to get a big chunk of the investment back, assuming you don't throw crap at it during Hawkeye games.
I think a foot from the wall would be OK, though probably not ideal. But you'll have that issue with most any floor stander- even the smaller Pioneers. I tend to think that the speaker with fewer drivers would create less potential for boominess or muddiness. A too big speaker in a too small a room just can't perform as designed. You don't get the full "picture" if you have to sit too closely to a big 'un, for example, in addition to issues of bass and tonal balance. The only thing worse than not enough bass is too much, or at least it can be.
OK, I'm not very observant. Foxclone mentioned getting a set of Energy RC-70s for $500 and I assumed they weren't still around. But they are, or at least I hope they are. (They were a highly regarded 2006ish speaker, had been been closed out and gone for a good while and seem to have reappeared, at least in black oak. They used to come in beautiful cheery and rosenut, but no longer. I'm assuming (hoping) the guts are still the same. Hopefully, they were able to still machine the same stuff in the factory in China. No apparent complaints on the 1800 page eEnergy owners thread at AVS forum.) Anyway $500/pair thru Saturday.
http://www.frys.com/product/7386304#detailed
They were originally $2K and very well regarded.
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_rc70.htm
Looks like they were used in a 12 X 16 room- not exactly cavernous.
http://www.voxxintlcorp.com/docs/energy/news/reviews/rc-70-lcr-rc-r-s10-3-home-theater-may-07.pdf
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/energy-reference-connoisseur-rc-70-surround-speaker-system
These would have a markedly different sonic signature. Much more the mellow, warm type compared to the Polks' lively signature. One (more, actually) poster at AVS Forum didn't like them; thought they were dull and lifeless. These measurements of a descending graph as you move toward the treble area would no doubt explain his disappointment. A Paradigm or a Polk might feature a spike up at the 10K area. So, dull and lifeless to some ears, seductive and non-fatiguing to others. Horses for courses.
Here's a Stereophile graph of the Polk RTiA3, the largish bookshelf with a 6.5" woofer. There's a rise in the 1-2000 Hz area and spike around 10,000 Hz. This is pretty day-night.
Here's that AVS Forum thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1475346-energy-rc-70-i-thought-they-re-really-good.html
It should be pointed out that this RC line was said to have required 100 hours of break-in time before they showed their true selves.
http://www.frys.com/product/7386304#detailed
They were originally $2K and very well regarded.
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_rc70.htm
Looks like they were used in a 12 X 16 room- not exactly cavernous.
http://www.voxxintlcorp.com/docs/energy/news/reviews/rc-70-lcr-rc-r-s10-3-home-theater-may-07.pdf
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/energy-reference-connoisseur-rc-70-surround-speaker-system
These would have a markedly different sonic signature. Much more the mellow, warm type compared to the Polks' lively signature. One (more, actually) poster at AVS Forum didn't like them; thought they were dull and lifeless. These measurements of a descending graph as you move toward the treble area would no doubt explain his disappointment. A Paradigm or a Polk might feature a spike up at the 10K area. So, dull and lifeless to some ears, seductive and non-fatiguing to others. Horses for courses.
Here's a Stereophile graph of the Polk RTiA3, the largish bookshelf with a 6.5" woofer. There's a rise in the 1-2000 Hz area and spike around 10,000 Hz. This is pretty day-night.
Here's that AVS Forum thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1475346-energy-rc-70-i-thought-they-re-really-good.html
It should be pointed out that this RC line was said to have required 100 hours of break-in time before they showed their true selves.
Those Energy speakers look like a fantastic deal. I think speakers out of Canada are like guitarists out of Great Britain - they are all at the least very good and some are among the best ever. Canadian PSBs are my favorite speaker line of all time. We have half a dozen pairs around the house
Paradigm is another excellent Canadian brand. I would think those Energy speakers would please you for a very long time.
Paradigm is another excellent Canadian brand. I would think those Energy speakers would please you for a very long time.It's just a shame that Klipsch (itself now owned by Recoton, unless someone else yet has swooped in) has destroyed the Energy brand. They still make the Take 5 mini system and must have some RC components left, but the most recent Energy products aren't up to snuff. The old API talent has left the building
well now i have some thinking to do (not one of my strengths).
was kind of thinking the impulse $300 wouldn't be noticed by the wife. now $500 means i might have to mention it to her......
and actually - thinking back to my receiver - will i need to get an amp to make those energys run?
and/or would i be able to get by without a sub with the energy set? trying to look big picture cost (AKA, selling story to the wife) for the right tower/sub/amp combo.
was kind of thinking the impulse $300 wouldn't be noticed by the wife. now $500 means i might have to mention it to her......
and actually - thinking back to my receiver - will i need to get an amp to make those energys run?
and/or would i be able to get by without a sub with the energy set? trying to look big picture cost (AKA, selling story to the wife) for the right tower/sub/amp combo.
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There is a bit more speaker to drive. I presume the 5600 puts out more power in stereo mode than surround. (?) A quick PM to Foxclone perhaps? h? Bueller?
Certainly no sub needed for music, if you're not into pipe organ.
music is my A#1 wish for this set up. movies and gaming is a far second (no one else in the house cares that much - they'll be happy with whatever i put together)
I think you will be fine as far as the power. Most speakers will only require a fraction of that even at loud levels.
The trade off will be will you be happier starting out with just the $500 two front speakers which appear to be excellent, or would you rather get the more affordable set with the additional speakers (right - or am I misremembering
You can get the thrill of surround sound right away or get higher quality music. With the latter you would probably want to find some Energy (or whatever brand you decide on if purchasing the front speakers only) bookshelf speakers for the surrounds (and center if you like) as you can afford it.
The trade off will be will you be happier starting out with just the $500 two front speakers which appear to be excellent, or would you rather get the more affordable set with the additional speakers (right - or am I misremembering
You can get the thrill of surround sound right away or get higher quality music. With the latter you would probably want to find some Energy (or whatever brand you decide on if purchasing the front speakers only) bookshelf speakers for the surrounds (and center if you like) as you can afford it.
ok - gonna pull the trigger tonight -
but going to throw one more wrench in the works. just browsing the polk ebay site, and i see their RTi10's are going for $525 (pair).
what do you think - if i step up to the energy set, or possibly these 10's - which is the better deal? and would either one 'need' a sub and/or amp to get me going? $25 isn't a big difference, so i figured i'd just go with the 'best' option here. you're right h-h, i'd prefer to pick up a set now, and not have to add anything (a sub or amp) for a while (maybe for xmas???)
but going to throw one more wrench in the works. just browsing the polk ebay site, and i see their RTi10's are going for $525 (pair).
what do you think - if i step up to the energy set, or possibly these 10's - which is the better deal? and would either one 'need' a sub and/or amp to get me going? $25 isn't a big difference, so i figured i'd just go with the 'best' option here. you're right h-h, i'd prefer to pick up a set now, and not have to add anything (a sub or amp) for a while (maybe for xmas???)
Couldn't find a review of the RTI10. FWIW if the model is similar to the reviewed RTI A9 they are almost the same efficiency (91 and 92) as the Energy and either one should be easy to drive. http://hometheaterreview.com/polk-rti-a9-floorstanding-loudspeakers-reviewed/
You will not need a sub at first. They do add the earth shaking super low end but I imagine any of the two tower speakers you are considering will have pretty good bass even for movies. I think you will be impressed with either model.
You will not need a sub at first. They do add the earth shaking super low end but I imagine any of the two tower speakers you are considering will have pretty good bass even for movies. I think you will be impressed with either model.
nice - thanks - getting excited for this. going to marinade on this over a few beers.... you guys have been a ton of help.
No doubt more power would slap 'em around more, but the speakers won't fry the Marantz. Later on, a sub would actually make the receiver more "powerful" by relieving it of the hardest part of its job- powering the low frequencies. It can concentrate on just driving "part" of the speakers.
Note that the 70s come with foam plugs for the rear ports, so they can be tamed if they boom.
I would think it would come down to looks and sonic preference- brighter vs warmer. Break-in patience would be needed for both, probably more so for the Energys in terms of time. (Play 'em when you're gone whenever possible; something bassy and busy with horns, percussion, etc.)
Note that the 70s come with foam plugs for the rear ports, so they can be tamed if they boom.
I would think it would come down to looks and sonic preference- brighter vs warmer. Break-in patience would be needed for both, probably more so for the Energys in terms of time. (Play 'em when you're gone whenever possible; something bassy and busy with horns, percussion, etc.)
And to build on what Chip said, to get even a slight increase in loudness (3dB) over whatever level you are listening at, with whatever equipment you have now, you would have to double the watts per channel of the new amp/receiver.
Watts per channel is probably the most over worried about aspect of audio, unless you happen to have have a hard system to drive.
Powerful amps as Chip said do you give you more headroom. And usually a more powerful amp is also sold as able to provide cleaner power. But many "experts" consider amp differences to be minimal and I would not worry about it as you start out. Marantz is a very good brand.
Chip, I and the others on here will be more than happy to help you spend your money when (if) you decide to get a subwoofer
Watts per channel is probably the most over worried about aspect of audio, unless you happen to have have a hard system to drive.
Powerful amps as Chip said do you give you more headroom. And usually a more powerful amp is also sold as able to provide cleaner power. But many "experts" consider amp differences to be minimal and I would not worry about it as you start out. Marantz is a very good brand.
Chip, I and the others on here will be more than happy to help you spend your money when (if) you decide to get a subwoofer
It's probably more fun than spending our own! But the game of "best bang for the buck" is something I always enjoy. The question is who's gonna start a "Help me assemble a $50K system" thread?
hey chip - still stewing on the 8's, 10's or energy set, and read back to this post. say $500 is my top spend, is it between the 10's or energys? or should i go with the 8's and a sub?
To me, it would be a battle of RC-70 vs RTi8 & sub. I think the RC70 offers the higher ceiling long term, though.
I have been in the market for an entry level table for awhile now and have had my eye on this one. My question with is, with the built in pre-amp, do I need to have a separate amplifier along with speakers or could this system operate with some sort of powered speakers alone without the separate amplifier?
Yep, powered speakers would work. Either that or plug into an RCA into an amp or receiver. Do you have a system of any kind right now?
No, I don't actually. I'm a vinyl novice. I found some albums in a box I had in storage and thought I might start this up as a hobby.
What kind of speakers would you recommend?
It kind of depends on the type of setup that would happen. A person could start off with a $25 amp and $125ish speakers in a smaller area. That is cheaper than a good powered speaker.
The amp.
http://www.amazon.com/Lepai-LP-2020...F8&qid=1429987013&sr=8-1&keywords=lepai+t-amp
It's not going to break any leases, but it is an amazing little thing. I have one at the computer desk. There are nicer versions of this type of amp, but this is a fine starter unit.
These speakers go reasonably deep for their size and are pretty "sensitive", meaning they don't take many watts to get decently loud.
http://fluance.com/product/SX6_High_Definition_Two_way_Bookshelf_Loudspeakers.eng-12.html
Pioneer makes this great bookshelf speaker, too, but it does take more power to get reach similar volume.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS...d=1429987824&sr=8-1&keywords=pioneer+sp-bs22-
The amp.
http://www.amazon.com/Lepai-LP-2020...F8&qid=1429987013&sr=8-1&keywords=lepai+t-amp
It's not going to break any leases, but it is an amazing little thing. I have one at the computer desk. There are nicer versions of this type of amp, but this is a fine starter unit.
These speakers go reasonably deep for their size and are pretty "sensitive", meaning they don't take many watts to get decently loud.
http://fluance.com/product/SX6_High_Definition_Two_way_Bookshelf_Loudspeakers.eng-12.html
Pioneer makes this great bookshelf speaker, too, but it does take more power to get reach similar volume.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS...d=1429987824&sr=8-1&keywords=pioneer+sp-bs22-
One thing about vinyl (and this is directed at the Sultan as well) is that it needs to be clean. Dirty sounds bad and hurts a stylus. This is the simplest and easiest thing, but of course requires an expenditure.
http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-CLEAN-ST...8110&sr=8-1&keywords=spin+clean+record+washer
There are some home brew things on youtube, I imagine.
A basic brush like this would be an essential for each time an album is spun.
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-LP...88237&sr=8-1&keywords=audioquest+record+brush
And ideally, keep the stylus clean so it'll last. (It has a little dry stylus brush, too.)
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i:aps,k:stylus+stylus+cleaner&keywords=stylus+stylus+cleaner&ie=UTF8&qid=1429988421
(A little art brush, bristles chopped a bit for stiffness,would work as a stylus brush to start with.)
http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-CLEAN-ST...8110&sr=8-1&keywords=spin+clean+record+washer
There are some home brew things on youtube, I imagine.
A basic brush like this would be an essential for each time an album is spun.
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-LP...88237&sr=8-1&keywords=audioquest+record+brush
And ideally, keep the stylus clean so it'll last. (It has a little dry stylus brush, too.)
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i:aps,k:stylus+stylus+cleaner&keywords=stylus+stylus+cleaner&ie=UTF8&qid=1429988421
(A little art brush, bristles chopped a bit for stiffness,would work as a stylus brush to start with.)
One little addendum on the little Lepai amp. I'm not sure how much "gain"- how strong a signal- the A-Ts phono amp puts out. If it's rather weak, that puts more pressure on the little fella to pump volume. But at $26, it's kinda what you call low risk.
I almost forgot- I did a (bad) youtube vid a few years back when I grabbed the Lepai and found a nice little pair of older Energy speakers for $60, for a little system for my daughter. We're down in Little Chip's cave for this. My recording is bad (didn't know what I was doing) but it sounded amazingly good in real life. The brass, bass, piano, voice all sounded pretty big and bold and 3 D. The speakers were way out into the room, but the music soundstage was back by the amp and CD player and spread out pretty much wall to wall. (The light wasn't that dim, but it made for ambience, I guess.) That is the Hamms bear behind the amp.
I retired after this production.
Just wanted to add that if you spring for the two front speakers, you can use old floor standing or bookshelf speakers for the surrounds. You would more than likely eventually want to get a speaker from the same company as whatever your front speakers are (for closer voicing) but most of what is in the rear channels for movies is sound effects and ambiance where the differences shouldn't be that big of deal and certainly listenable.
I've got a question for Chip.Didn't some company buy up Klipsch,Energy and Jamo?I've been looking for some higher end Jamo's and it doesn't seem they are a presence much in the US anymore.
It's really too bad.They are great speakers and I've been shilling them for years on various forums.
It's really too bad.They are great speakers and I've been shilling them for years on various forums.
I think it was Klipsch swallowing up API, the parent company of Energy, Mirage and Athena, and then Jamo and then Recoton buying Klipsch. Athena was closed down when Klipsch took over, IIRC.
So Chip, if I went with the Lepai and the Fluance speakers together with the Audio Technica table, would you recommend that as a good solid starter set up?
I should add that I'm looking to this set up in my upstairs living room. It isn't a very large room. I assume that I would get good sound results with the set up described above?
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For some reason I remember the Audiovox name being tossed around as an overall owner of all these speaker companies.I could be wrong,and probably am.Such a shame about Jamo.They truly made some really good speakers.I'm listening to 2 E660 floor standers,C400 center channel and 2 C403 rear book shelf speakers.
I love these type of threads.I learn something all the time.
Yeah- unless you want to go bigger, spend more, etc. I may have wrongly assumed you were thinking smaller & cheaper when you mentioned powered speakers, so I didn't mean to pigeon hole you. (We can make it more ambitious for a couple hundy more.)
For example, there's only one set of RCA jacks on the back of the Lepai, so if you want to bang something else onto it, it gets the boot.
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