Audio guys - who is up for being peppered with a million questions?

[SoDakHawk]

Ok, that was the specs on the Onkyo. So I am reading the specs for the Yamaha receiver and it is written up this way:

5-channel powerful surround sound
115 W per channel (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9% THD, 1 ch driven)
80 W per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.09% THD, 2 ch driven)

So what does that mean?

 

[longliveCS40]

From what you've posted, the apples to apples comparison is 2 channels driven at 8 ohms between the two:

Yamaha
80 W per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.09% THD, 2 ch driven)

Onkyo
65 W/Ch (8 Ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.7% THD, 2 ChannelsDriven, FTC)

So the Yamaha puts out more power (80 watts per channel vs. 65 watts per channel), and is cleaner (0.09% Total Harmonic Distortion vs 0.7% Total Harmonic Distortion)

However, I question the THD specs on the Yamaha because they claim the receiver has lower distortion while driving 2 channels 20hz-20khz than it does driving 1 channel at 1khz. It's quite possible those values a simply transposed.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the power or distortion ratings, honestly. They'll both drive speakers well and reasonably distortion free. To me, it's more about the features provided when you're looking at equipment at this price point.

When you get into the high dollar amps/speakers, then it begins to make a difference more.

 

[SoDakHawk]

Thanks for the help guys. I've got a better understanding now. From what I am reading, and what you are telling me, I shouldn't worry too much about power ratings, etc. as any of these receivers are capable for what I want them to do and, let's be real here, they are lower end units. I'll instead focus on the features that are important to me. In that case the Onkyo is the front runner due to the built in Bluetooth.

 

[ChipHilton]

Those Lepai amps are intriguing...never heard of them before this thread.

They're "T" amps. I've pretty much forgotten the history, but a bunch of these digital chips were made years ago (and I think they then stopped), but a bunch of them were made into amps under various badges/brands. This one has a 20 watt chip and there are 15 and 25ers and (maybe others) out there, too. Topping, SMSL and a couple other brands come to mind. Toppings seem to be nice. They all do their own thing with the other circuitry besides the basic amp chip, I guess.

The 20wpc in the Lepai's is with 10% distortion, so the real spec is probably something like 7-8 watts of clean power. They do seem to be stable into 4 ohms, however and put out 12 wpc or so there.

The 15 wpc amps are said to be smoother and almost tubier sounding, while the 20s allegedly have more oomph, though a little drier or whatever.

 

[h-hawk]

Found some comparisons mentioning some models being considered. It appears the reviewer is basing his ratings on the specs and features only. Didn't see any mention of oh..say... sound quality

http://hometheater.about.com/od/avreceiversreviews/tp/budgetreceiver.htm

 

[ChipHilton]

Chip, I pulled the trigger on the audio-technica at-lp120-usb direct-drive professional turntable, the lepai amp and the Fluance speakers. Yeah, I know, I went the basic ( cheap ) mode, but it should be a good starter setup until I become more knowledgable about what is out there and how I can gradually upgrade in the future.

Forgot to ax- beech or black on the speakers?

 

[sultanofsuede]

receiver buzz update - couldn't find any good/easy fixes, so just shot the c-list seller a note to see if he knew about it. i got the thing for a song, so i guess if i got stuck, no big damage except that i have some polks setting in the closet, ready to go..... and the receiver search starts again....

as for the buzz - i did kind of locate where its coming from. pressed my ear against the top of the receiver in a few locations, and it appears to be coming from the area by the antennae outlets.

 

[HawkFanatik]

Forgot to ax- beech or black on the speakers?

I went black baby.

 

[h-hawk]

receiver buzz update - couldn't find any good/easy fixes, so just shot the c-list seller a note to see if he knew about it. i got the thing for a song, so i guess if i got stuck, no big damage except that i have some polks setting in the closet, ready to go..... and the receiver search starts again....

as for the buzz - i did kind of locate where its coming from. pressed my ear against the top of the receiver in a few locations, and it appears to be coming from the area by the antennae outlets.

I don't remember ever hearing about a buzz actually coming from the chassis! Found a thread and they mentioned trying to raise one corner of the receiver over the others to see if that would make any mechanical resonance go away. Another person thought the buzz being discussed was from the transformer and suggested applying resin to the metal laminations in an attempt to repair the transformer. (Over my head They said if that did not work to repair or replace the transformer but you probably would not want to go to the trouble or expense in this case.

 

[ChipHilton]

I went black baby.

Goes with everything.

Remember to "break 'em in" by playing something on repeat at moderate levels whenever you can while gone or in other part of house. That first listen can be a letdown- they may sound hollow, stiff, harsh, bassless, etc. Even the table's stylus will need some hours.

 

[sultanofsuede]

I don't remember ever hearing about a buzz actually coming from the chassis! Found a thread and they mentioned trying to raise one corner of the receiver over the others to see if that would make any mechanical resonance go away. Another person thought the buzz being discussed was from the transformer and suggested applying resin to the metal laminations in an attempt to repair the transformer. (Over my head They said if that did not work to repair or replace the transformer but you probably would not want to go to the trouble or expense in this case.

yeah - that was the first i actually notices it. i pressed my ear up tight to the chassis last night so see if i could pick up anything. it was slight, but it was there. now, maybe all receivers have a slight electrical hummmmmm if you put your ear up to it (who knows). thanks for the input though - think i'll check with a local shop to see if they'll take a look.

 

[HawkFanatik]

Goes with everything.

Remember to "break 'em in" by playing something on repeat at moderate levels whenever you can while gone or in other part of house. That first listen can be a letdown- they may sound hollow, stiff, harsh, bassless, etc. Even the table's stylus will need some hours.

I just got everything today ( turntable, speakers and that spunky little amp ). I have to work the next few days so I'm probably not going to make much progress on getting it all set up. Any tips you might have would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[ChipHilton]

I just got everything today ( turntable, speakers and that spunky little amp ). I have to work the next few days so I'm probably not going to make much progress on getting it all set up. Any tips you might have would be greatly appreciated!!

Well, I hope you have some wire.

Placement makes a big difference, though.

1- Those ports on the back of the speakers help to make bass, but too close to the back wall and that bass can get boomy and the overall sound, well, kinda muddled. Farther away allows the speakers to "image"; to throw up an image of people playing in front of you, often behind the plane of the speakers. But go too far away and you lose the boundary bass reinforcment and the sound gets lean. In that dumb video I posted on page 1, I had the speakers 5'+ plus from the back wall and was getting bass and a vivid, sonic image and soundstage. But doing that isn't usually possible without a dedicated, you-only room. (And that room is only about 9 X 16 and pretty bass friendly.)

2- If the room is rectangular, you'd want the speakers in front of the narrow walls if possible. Yields much fuller, more focused sound.

3- You could start out with a "triangle" placement, depending on the room. That is, if the speakers are 7-8' apart, then the main listening spot could be 7-8' from each one in an equilateral triangle. From there, you could move back to wherever all seems most correct sounding. In my lair, if I actually sit down and listen for a while, I move the sacred chair ahead or back a a couple of feet, depending on whether it's vinyl or CD. (Closer for vinyl.)

3- Towing/pointing speakers right at your face will yield the most focused, pinpoint sound. You'll get the strongest central image of a vocalist or whatever. Pointing them straight ahead will make them sound a little more expansive. If the sound seems bright, pointing the speakers straight ahead will help. If you want 'em a little brighter/detailed, point 'em at ya. And there's always somewhere in between- some like having them firing at a spot right behind their heads.

4- Grilles on if the highs are a little hot. Grilles off for more detail.

5- Speakers roughly at ear height, if possible.

And there you have a little geekery 101.

 

[HawkFanatik]

Status Report#1

Ok, ( after much swearing and wild gyrations ) I've learned how to properly strip speaker wire and I've managed to connect the ends to banana plugs for the Fluances and the other into the Lepai. I'm doing a test run with the music from my phone....I have to say it sounds pretty damn good. Later tonight, I will get the turntable in action ( hopefully). So far so good.

NOTE: I'm actually waiting for something to blow up or catch on fire. LOL

 

[ChipHilton]

Status Report#1

Ok, ( after much swearing and wild gyrations ) I've learned how to properly strip speaker wire and I've managed to connect the ends to banana plugs for the Fluances and the other into the Lepai. I'm doing a test run with the music from my phone....I have to say it sounds pretty damn good. Later tonight, I will get the turntable in action ( hopefully). So far so good.

NOTE: I'm actually waiting for something to blow up or catch on fire. LOL

Well, jes remember to turn the amp down to zero each time you change music or sources! Turn it off when plugging or unplugging something into the RCA inputs. My little Lepai is on 24-7, perched on a MacMini, and never even gets warm, so I think you're pretty safe re: fire.

 

[HawkFanatik]

Well, jes remember to turn the amp down to zero each time you change music or sources! Turn it off when plugging or unplugging something into the RCA inputs. My little Lepai is on 24-7, perched on a MacMini, and never even gets warm, so I think you're pretty safe re: fire.

Status Report #2

Ok, I have the turntable up and running. That's the good news. The semi-bad news ( because you know it couldn't possibly go smoothly ) is that the sound is not very loud. Is this because it takes time to warm up with some use or did I possibly not connect something correctly? Something else?

Is it simply possible that I really need a top notch amplifier to get some real noise??

***Never mind, I figured it out. I'm a dumbass.

BTW, thanks for all the tips/advice Chip. You've been a lifesaver! Let me know when you come to an Iowa football game next. You can stop/hang out at our tailgate.

 

[ChipHilton]

Status Report #2

Ok, I have the turntable up and running. That's the good news. The semi-bad news ( because you know it couldn't possibly go smoothly ) is that the sound is not very loud. Is this because it takes time to warm up with some use or did I possibly not connect something correctly? Something else?

Is it simply possible that I really need a top notch amplifier to get some real noise??

***Never mind, I figured it out. I'm a dumbass.

BTW, thanks for all the tips/advice Chip. You've been a lifesaver! Let me know when you come to an Iowa football game next. You can stop/hang out at our tailgate.

i too am a dumbass, having replied with some questions, before actually noticing that you figured it out.

Was it a matter of engaging the table's phono stage?

 

[HawkFanatik]

i too am a dumbass, having replied with some questions, before actually noticing that you figured it out.

Was it a matter of engaging the table's phono stage?

Yes, I believe so.

 

[sultanofsuede]

reviving this thread for a moment - that beauty marantz receiver that i procured for so little truly was too good to be true. got it in for an assessment and it'll be about $300 or more to fix. so i'm starting from scratch on the receiver search. have some killer (looking) polk speakers that are waiting in the wings. i'll start up another thread later to give you guys some updates on how it all sounds (or hell, maybe i'll end up needing more help along the way).

 

[longliveCS40]

What model Marantz receiver?

 

[h-hawk]

reviving this thread for a moment - that beauty marantz receiver that i procured for so little truly was too good to be true. got it in for an assessment and it'll be about $300 or more to fix. so i'm starting from scratch on the receiver search. have some killer (looking) polk speakers that are waiting in the wings. i'll start up another thread later to give you guys some updates on how it all sounds (or hell, maybe i'll end up needing more help along the way).

I hope who sold it to you did not realize it was so damaged. You may be able to make some of the purchase price back on Ebay or Audiogon. Some people buy old equipment to restore. Here is a link to Audiogon. http://app.audiogon.com/

 

[sultanofsuede]

What model Marantz receiver?

It's an SR5600, and I think it's about 9 years old.

Good point bout trying to sell - repair guy charged $50 estimate the job, so I thought about seeing if he wanted the unit and we just call it square.

 

[bagdropper]

In Iowa, where do people take receivers etc to get fixed nowadays?

I have my Sony STR-DA5ES that needs some work. At the time it was one of the finest home theater receivers in the world. I have a main speaker output that goes out now and then and the last time I used it, after about an hour it went into protection mode - and I want to get it checked out.

I just cannot take it to the dump for recycling...it'd break my heart, even though I don't use it any more.

There just isn't a place in CR to have stuff like this done - at least that I know of. Not sure if there's a place in IC that still does this type of work. I've also heard there's a place or two in DM that does work (Traviss?).

 

[longliveCS40]

It's an SR5600, and I think it's about 9 years old.

Good point avoid trying to sell - repair guy charged $50 estimate the job, so I thought about see if he wanted the unit and we just call it square.

Gotcha, that's a bummer. I have a 70's era Marantz 2235b that I use in my office. Their older stuff is bulletproof.

 

[sultanofsuede]

found an audio repair guy at west music in iowa city. not going to pay for the repair though, as it will cost me enough that i should just grab a different receiver.

as for receivers - what do you guys think about buying a factory refurb that is about a year old and has a one year manufacturer warranty? feels like if the thing works a month, it should go on to last me a few years (no?).

i found the receiver i want on that accessories4less.com site - its about half price as 'new'.

 

[ChipHilton]

reviving this thread for a moment - that beauty marantz receiver that i procured for so little truly was too good to be true. got it in for an assessment and it'll be about $300 or more to fix. so i'm starting from scratch on the receiver search. have some killer (looking) polk speakers that are waiting in the wings. i'll start up another thread later to give you guys some updates on how it all sounds (or hell, maybe i'll end up needing more help along the way).

Noooo! This thread needs to live on! It might be the longest audio thread in HROT history.

found an audio repair guy at west music in iowa city. not going to pay for the repair though, as it will cost me enough that i should just grab a different receiver.

as for receivers - what do you guys think about buying a factory refurb that is about a year old and has a one year manufacturer warranty? feels like if the thing works a month, it should go on to last me a few years (no?).

I found the receiver I want on that accessories4less.com site - its about half price as 'new'.

That's what I'd do. (Yeah, I know, big whoop... ) Which unit you talkin', Clark?



How's the vinyl spinning going, Fanatic?

 

[h-hawk]

Had good success with refurbs until one of those I bought at Accessories 4 Less - the Denon. A story I have probably told too many times but I received 1 lemon from them and 2 from Denon themselves. The odds of that have to be as high as winning any lottery.
Another place to look is on Amazon. They have dealers advertising demo units as well as returns that may have come back in perfect working order from people who could not figure them out.
And as was probably mentioned before but Harmon Kardon sells refurbs on Ebay and on their own site.


http://www.harmanaudio.com/refurbished-speakers/

 

[sultanofsuede]

looking at a maratnz sr5008 or sr5009 on that accessories4less site. i also see a 5008 on ebay that bidding is about to close on (less than accessories4less)

 

[h-hawk]

Looks like the seller has 100% satisfaction so far. If you bid on it hope you don't get sniped! See where he doesn't offer returns (not unusual) but Ebay will give you some coverage. Fortunately I have never had to find out how good that coverage is

 

[sultanofsuede]

yeah - i guess my expecation is that if the thing works when i plug it in, done deal. if it goes out in 10 months, so be it - that risk is on me for a used unit.

 

[sultanofsuede]

went ahead and bought the factory refurb Marantz SR5008 (accessories4less). has a 1 year warranty and if it shows up damaged from shipping, i can send back at no cost to me. so, here's hoping i can start blasting some tunes in the near future.

 

[h-hawk]

Congratulations! Hard to go wrong with a (working Marantz. Besides the lower level receiver in my bedroom, I used two have two Marantz mono power amps (MA500s) and a NAD preamp. Great combination recommended and sold to me by one of the audio stores here in Des Moines.

 

[sultanofsuede]

so - the updates as promise (first of many):

the sr5008 showed up yesterday, plugged it in and it works great. hooked it up for first sound check to CD player and some 35 year old RTR floor speakers. took the speakers a little while to warm up, but was able to crank them up a bit (dropped Weezer's "back to the shack"). overall first impression was positive. i think the receiver is going to be great, and i'm excited to get it hooked up to the TV and more importantly - the polks that you guys suggested.

really just was a huge relief to hit the 'power' button on the unit and not have the 'hum' that i had experienced on the previous c-list purchase (i waited for it, just ready for dissapointment).

next update when i get the speakers connected.

no phono input so it looks like i'll be needing a preamp or some conversion when i add the turntable.

 

[HawkFanatik]

Noooo! This thread needs to live on! It might be the longest audio thread in HROT history.



That's what I'd do. (Yeah, I know, big whoop... ) Which unit you talkin', Clark?



How's the vinyl spinning going, Fanatic?

Great Chip! Got it all set up (did I post a picture of the set-up?? I can't remember )

Just recently bought Abbey Road, Revolver, and Rumours...

 

[ChipHilton]

Great Chip! Got it all set up (did I post a picture of the set-up?? I can't remember )

Just recently bought Abbey Road, Revolver, and Rumours...

No, you didn't. A pic would be great!

 

[sultanofsuede]

The thread is back - I'm getting close to being able to share some real news/reviews of the set up.

So far, I have been really happy with the SL5008. Its been pretty easy to use, and sounds great with my modest (hand me down )speakers.

I still have the Polks waiting in the wings. Just haven't had time to set up the living room & system up in a way that I'm ready to fire them up. Plus, i finally found a turntable (a 25 year old technics SL-D2). bought it from a guy on craigslist and he warned that the stylus hadn't been touched since he shut it down in the mid-90's, so i need to add that (starting to look for a decent option here, just to get me going - i can upgrade to something nicer, if necessary, later).

wife and kids are going to be out of town in a couple weekends, so i think i'll work on the set up them. just need to get the stylus here soon.

 

[ChipHilton]

Suspense!!! (Of a good kind.)

I suspect that a new cartridge period might be in order (and you may have meant that). Or not.

Budget king.

http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATC95EB.html

2X the $, but perhaps worth it. Features a mellower sound, makes lots of stuff sound good. Great tracker, indestructible, etc.

http://www.lpgear.com/product/SHEC03.html

More extended treble than the Shure. This one has a spunky output voltage of 5.5 mV, which could be handy if the phono stage is a bit wimpy, maybe overpowering if not. (Marantz would have a better stage than a typical AV receiver, but still likely not a powerhouse.) The Shure puts out 4.0 mV and the AT 3.5 mV, which may be enough, too.

http://www.lpgear.com/product/OR2MRED.html

This one allegedly adds more treble detail and overall sophistication vs the Ortofon and also has the rep of being great tracker. Puts out 5.0 mV, so it's also pretty spunky in that regard. Could sound bright in some systems (they say).

http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATC06.html

There are a million opinions and reviews on these things, though. Some people get really snotty about it.

 

[ChipHilton]

Do you hear differences? (Turn it up!) The 440 is a $200 cart.

 

[sultanofsuede]

amazing what kind of engineering can go into such a tiny element. i think i might go for that shure unit. about what i want to spend to see what this turn table is all about.

i didn't get a chance to turn it up (just listening on the an HP laptop, i kind of liked the audiophile sound better - i know that doesn't count, but just fun to take the time - btw, those steely dan tracks are going to get some airplay on my system at some point).

 

[ChipHilton]

amazing what kind of engineering can go into such a tiny element. i think i might go for that shure unit. about what i want to spend to see what this turn table is all about.

i didn't get a chance to turn it up (just listening on the an HP laptop, i kind of liked the audiophile sound better - i know that doesn't count, but just fun to take the time - btw, those steely dan tracks are going to get some airplay on my system at some point).

A buddy on another site will definitely applaud the choice, though he also likes the AT95 and has an Ortofon 2M Blue as his first stringer. But he also has-and loves-the Shure. (He has a Technics SL-1200 Mk2.) I'd rather turn the treble control up than be constantly trying to tone it down.

At some point, depending on whether you have many rougher albums, you could even grab an extra headshell and AT95 for use on the less pristine ones. (I do enjoy spending other people's money.)

Can't produce better sound than Messrs. Fagen and Becker.