Balance of Year Rotation

[pocha444444]

My point is that Joe T has not shown enough yet to where he should automatically play 30+ mins every night. Could he get to that level by the end of the year? Maybe I don't know.

I think the ISU game was a perfect representation of why he isn't getting more minutes. He played great but down the stretch he made poor decisions on 3 straight possessions and lead to a big ISU run. Fran has to bench him in that situation, there's no other choice. Joe's going to learn and his situational awareness will get better but right now I think that alone is going to cap his minutes at about 25. The coaches seem to roll with Joe T until he does something that forces them to pull him out of the lineup. He's going to be given every opportunity to see the court but he has to earn his minutes.

Some real revisionist history by you and others on this board. He had two back to back turnovers, not three. He did not lead to a run, the Clones run was much earlier in the second half. He did spark two runs both times he was in the game, however. It was 75-57 when he left the game, he entered the 2nd half when it was 54-41. So he was +5 during his "terrible" stretch of ball.

Meanwhile, Bohannon got 26 minutes and was 2-12 with 3 turnovers. Someone has to get minutes. Typically your top five guys will get close to 30. Are you really going to tell me Joe T isn't one of our top five guys?

 

[Hawkeyes4Life32]

Some real revisionist history by you and others on this board. He had two back to back turnovers, not three. He did not lead to a run, the Clones run was much earlier in the second half. He did spark two runs both times he was in the game, however. It was 75-57 when he left the game, he entered the 2nd half when it was 54-41. So he was +5 during his "terrible" stretch of ball.

Meanwhile, Bohannon got 26 minutes and was 2-12 with 3 turnovers. Someone has to get minutes. Typically your top five guys will get close to 30. Are you really going to tell me Joe T isn't one of our top five guys?

Whether it's 2 or 3 it doesn't matter. I'd have to go back and watch it. I do know that it did allow for the clones to go on a 7-0 run in a short period of time. Yes he played great up until that point, but he can't make those two bad plays early in the shot clock at that point in the game.

You're really not getting what I was trying to say, the minutes are going to vary from game to game, but he doesn't have the consistency yet to automatically be given 30+ mins every game. If he's playing well then yes leave him on the floor as much as possible I'm not arguing with you on that. I'm saying at crucial parts of the game he can't make those mistakes if he is going to stay on the floor.

As for Jordan, I don't know what you want me to tell you, he's a senior and probably the most clutch shooter in the history of Iowa basketball. He's going to get his minutes especially in an in-state rivalry at a venue we haven't won in in 16 years.

 

[pocha444444]

Whether it's 2 or 3 it doesn't matter. I'd have to go back and watch it. I do know that it did allow for the clones to go on a 7-0 run in a short period of time. Yes he played great up until that point, but he can't make those two bad plays early in the shot clock at that point in the game.

You're really not getting what I was trying to say, the minutes are going to vary from game to game, but he doesn't have the consistency yet to automatically be given 30+ mins every game. If he's playing well then yes leave him on the floor as much as possible I'm not arguing with you on that. I'm saying at crucial parts of the game he can't make those mistakes if he is going to stay on the floor.

As for Jordan, I don't know what you want me to tell you, he's a senior and probably the most clutch shooter in the history of Iowa basketball. He's going to get his minutes especially in an in-state rivalry at a venue we haven't won in in 16 years.

Well he had 2 total for the game, so that should be a clue right there which number it was. I'm not sure how two turnovers leads to a 7-0 run, but whatever you want to think...

I get what you're saying. You feel more comfortable with guys like Kreiner, Pemsl or Evelyn on the floor, and all I'm saying is that you're crazy.

 

[Hawkeyes4Life32]

Well he had 2 total for the game, so that should be a clue right there which number it was. I'm not sure how two turnovers leads to a 7-0 run, but whatever you want to think...

I get what you're saying. You feel more comfortable with guys like Kreiner, Pemsl or Evelyn on the floor, and all I'm saying is that you're crazy.

No, I'm saying that if he makes poor basketball decisions like that he's getting pulled regardless of who is replacing him

 

[pocha444444]

No, I'm saying that if he makes poor basketball decisions like that he's getting pulled regardless of who is replacing him

Well if anyone goes through a rough stretch they may ride pine for a little bit. Seems like an odd point to even bring up. That's how it's always worked.

 

[jdv77]

Honestly, I am not sure what the argument is about. With Bohannon shutting it down, there are 9 players who have seen minutes during meaningful game time:

Garza
Wieskamp
Fredrick
C. McCaffery
Toussaint
Kriener
Pemsl
Evelyn
Till

Every player listed (except Till) is going to get significant minutes going forward. There aren't any other guys to put on the court. Till will get minutes if there is a frontcourt injury or foul issues.

While Kriener will play more, I would anticipate the majority of replacing Bohannon's minutes will come from backcourt players. I do not anticipate Toussaint will go from 15 minutes a game to 30, but I would expect him to have the biggest increase in minutes, to 22-24 minutes per game. I would expect Fredrick to go from 26 minutes to 30-31 per game. I expect C. McCaffery and Wieskamp to each go up 2-3 minutes per game. I expect Evelyn to go up 2-3 minutes per game. That would be about 19 of the 25 minutes that Bohannon was playing per game. That leaves 6 minutes to be picked up by Kriener and Pemsl.

 

[IllQChawk]

Honestly, I am not sure what the argument is about. With Bohannon shutting it down, there are 9 players who have seen minutes during meaningful game time:

Garza
Wieskamp
Fredrick
C. McCaffery
Toussaint
Kriener
Pemsl
Evelyn
Till

Every player listed (except Till) is going to get significant minutes going forward. There aren't any other guys to put on the court. Till will get minutes if there is a frontcourt injury or foul issues.

While Kriener will play more, I would anticipate the majority of replacing Bohannon's minutes will come from backcourt players. I do not anticipate Toussaint will go from 15 minutes a game to 30, but I would expect him to have the biggest increase in minutes, to 22-24 minutes per game. I would expect Fredrick to go from 26 minutes to 30-31 per game. I expect C. McCaffery and Wieskamp to each go up 2-3 minutes per game. I expect Evelyn to go up 2-3 minutes per game. That would be about 19 of the 25 minutes that Bohannon was playing per game. That leaves 6 minutes to be picked up by Kriener and Pemsl.

My eyes do not deceive me, Till, who is on scholarship, is better then Pemsl and it's not even close. Till although no offensive juggernaut, is quicker and can at least leap and occasionally dunk the basketball which is quite the opposite of Pemsl who has absolutely no lift from his repaired knees. Both lack any confidence on the offensive end.
In today's QC Times an article about how Fran has pushed all the right buttons stated, that Pemsl is close to providing the same productivity as his freshman year.
If that isn't "Hiperbole" I don't know what is!
This is something that Fran is very good at, but it rarely becomes fact.
Iowa and this can not be disputed, has only 4 remaining available scholarship players left on the bench, of which only Kriener can provide meaningful offensive production when on the court. That does not bode well going forward unless someone can come up with some divine-Intervention.
Anyone out there have any!!!!

 

[owenhawk]

He needs to be a true point. Im very nervous with him at the point he hasnt shown the ability to run the team. Way too much over dribbling and forcing things. This offense thrives on ball movement, Luka, Joey-CJ from 3 and cutting, Connor doing all the little things that go unnoticed. Last thing we need is Joe T come in dribble dribble dribble. Move the ball get in lane and find shooters.

I agree. He has done some nice things and has a ton of potential but running the offense and valuing the ball is where he needs to improve the most. I like him out there with Connor until that’s the case because the offense runs the most efficiently - and avoids turnover - with Connor being the facilitator.

 

[owenhawk]

My eyes do not deceive me, Till, who is on scholarship, is better then Pemsl and it's not even close. Till although no offensive juggernaut, is quicker and can at least leap and occasionally dunk the basketball which is quite the opposite of Pemsl who has absolutely no lift from his repaired knees. Both lack any confidence on the offensive end.
In today's QC Times an article about how Fran has pushed all the right buttons stated, that Pemsl is close to providing the same productivity as his freshman year.
If that isn't "Hiperbole" I don't know what is!
This is something that Fran is very good at, but it rarely becomes fact.
Iowa and this can not be disputed, has only 4 remaining available scholarship players left on the bench, of which only Kriener can provide meaningful offensive production when on the court. That does not bode well going forward unless someone can come up with some divine-Intervention.
Anyone out there have any!!!!

His hyperbole on Garza and Frederick has not only proved true but exceeded expectations. Yes, he does go overboard sometimes but he’s right sometimes too. Pemsl is probably struggling health wise more than any of us know but he is a veteran and he will compete. If Iowa can get 10-15 minutes of solid defense and rebounding and occasionally providing a little offense, will be fine. I like Till for what he is but he lacks the upside that Pemsl can provide and has provided at different times in his career.

 

[owenhawk]

Connor is also 4th in the nation in assist to turnover ratio, and isn't close to the playmaker that Toussaint is. There's room for both to get close to 30 min. Just wish we could surround them with better shooting assuming JBo shuts it down.

If they both start, they are going to be surrounded by 3 of the better shooters in the Big Ten in Garza, Weezy, and Frederick.

 

[owenhawk]

In all fairness a lot of these tos are because he is surprising his teammates with no looks and hard passes. As teammates get used to his style of play his tos will also go down.

Maybe a few have been because of that but the majority is because he’s been out of control. Love what he brings to the table and his potential. But with increased time and responsibility coming, he needs to tighten up those sort of things. A big reason for Iowa’s offense being so good this year is because the team has valued the ball better then the last number of years.

 

[Legend12]

In all fairness a lot of these tos are because he is surprising his teammates with no looks and hard passes. As teammates get used to his style of play his tos will also go down.

No, a lot of those TOs are because he is careless with the basketball.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Joe T gets careless because, like most freshmen, he's adjusting to the speed of college defenses and college players. The passing lanes close much quicker. The defenders hands are much quicker. The new teammates are not where his old teammates were. A tendency to dribble into double teams and other traps that were easily broken in HS. All of that makes freshmen actually careless notwithstanding their talent. There just aren't that many freshmen point guards going deep in the NCAAs for all these reasons.

Of course there are the dumb guards that are careless and never learn the value of ball possession regardless of their experience.

Sophomore years are where the battlefield education translates into more caution with the ball. Jordan has had outstanding A/TO ratios and CMac is having a great A/TO season this year. Joe T will learn these lessons and hopefully now much faster than originally planned.

For one, I think Joe T will learn quickly and will be a four year starter here on out.

 

[fivecardstud14]

I wonder if the people who clamor about Toussaint's turnovers also think Stanzi was better as a senior.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Except when he doesn't. Hopefully as his minutes increase, he'll settle down more. His defense is already solid, but those stretches where he turns the ball over 3 times in a row will lose a tight game in crunch time. Still he's the best option for increased playing time, unless he shows otherwise, and Fran has to pull him late in games.

don't care if he turns the ball over a little more than others when: he is the best on ball defender, causes havoc for the other team, and creates some easy points for the other 4. Part of being a good coach is getting him to know when it is time to settle down, without necessarily taking him out.
If anything needs to be cleaned up at the end of halves it's the coaching and play calling. I'd bet anything that Iowa leads the nation ,under fran, giving the opponent a shot when we have possession with the shot clock turned off. Heck we probably give up more points in those situations than we score. It's the equivalent (possibly worse) of Kirks clock management. Maybe he should keep a guy like joe t in to run the clock down and dish to someone else. It couldn't possibly be worse.

 

[pocha444444]

don't care if he turns the ball over a little more than others when: he is the best on ball defender, causes havoc for the other team, and creates some easy points for the other 4. Part of being a good coach is getting him to know when it is time to settle down, without necessarily taking him out.
If anything needs to be cleaned up at the end of halves it's the coaching and play calling. I'd bet anything that Iowa leads the nation ,under fran, giving the opponent a shot when we have possession with the shot clock turned off. Heck we probably give up more points in those situations than we score. It's the equivalent (possibly worse) of Kirks clock management. Maybe he should keep a guy like joe t in to run the clock down and dish to someone else. It couldn't possibly be worse.

No disagreements here. It's not specific to a few years or PGs either, although it seems to have gotten a little better. I think it was the worst when Gesell was pg.