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Betrayed by the Dems

That's great that you and Patton Oswald are voting this way, but do you honestly believe that is how the rest of the voting population is voting? Not even the whole voting population, but the numbers it would take to get Joe the victory?

If the Dems run Biden, they will lose; denying that at this point makes them look foolish.

Time to make a call to the bullpen, Mrs. Obama.
 
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Go read what Project 2025 is and get back to me. If you had, you'd be scared shitless right now.
I am well in the republican camp at this point I I have never heard of this before. I googled it, but there is a lot to read.

Can you tell me what you think it is and what you object to so i can look into them?
 
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Last night was not great but my mother in law has dementia and Joe is not anything close to what we see from her. He is more like my father in law, who happens to be the same age, and mostly just slower in reaction and comprehension. Like his processing time is slower. I can certainly see where a slower processing time coupled with a timed debate would mess with him. But I do believe that he is capable of understanding and making decisions. I also believe that he is far more willing to take counsel from experts than Donald Trump and would be a far better person to lead. I also believe Kamala Harris is a far better choice than Donald Trump.
 
Biden has a 38 percent approval rate. At this point in time, he's starting to lose significant leads in blue states. This is going to be like Reagan/Mondale.
Are you becoming delusional?

Yes, Biden has issues and yes he is going to lose but Trump is hated by a majority of the country. He will likely win similarly to how he did in 2016.
 
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I am well in the republican camp at this point I I have never heard of this before. I googled it, but there is a lot to read.

Can you tell me what you think it is and what you object to so i can look into them?

I don't think you're as on the inside as you'd like to think if you're not up to date on what The Heritage Foundation is doing or their role in GOP policy and strategy. They've been crafting the legislation and vetting the judges you've been voting for for decades.
 
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Only against Trump. Trump is still a convicted felon and not even his Supreme Court can change that.
But you just said in your first post that we are “voting for platforms” now. Not the candidate. Trump’s platform is way less offensive than him as a person/ candidate.

Seems you want us to ignore Biden as a candidate/ person but focus on Trump as a candidate/ person. Eff that. I’m not voting for someone on the hope that they have good handlers. Too many qualified people in this country to lead to pull that shit. Get out of the way and let people who are reasonably fit to run the country.
 
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I don't think you're as on the inside as you'd like to think if you're not up to date on what The Heritage Foundation is doing or their role in GOP policy and strategy. They've been crafting the legislation and vetting the judges you've been voting for for decades.
The only Republican stuff he knows much about is on the Russian propaganda side of things.
 
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I’m not voting for someone on the hope that they have good handlers.

If that's going to be what people are voting for, they need to be clear on who these "handlers" are and what their qualifications are. If he's not even making the decisions on who these handlers are, we have a bigger problem we need to hash out imo.
 
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Last night was not great but my mother in law has dementia and Joe is not anything close to what we see from her. He is more like my father in law, who happens to be the same age, and mostly just slower in reaction and comprehension. Like his processing time is slower. I can certainly see where a slower processing time coupled with a timed debate would mess with him. But I do believe that he is capable of understanding and making decisions. I also believe that he is far more willing to take counsel from experts than Donald Trump and would be a far better person to lead. I also believe Kamala Harris is a far better choice than Donald Trump.
When I hear people call him Dementia Joe or anything similar it just makes me realize that person has no clue what dementia is.

I'm sorry to hear about your MIL, it's can be a nightmare to deal with.
 
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I don't think you're as on the inside as you'd like to think if you're not up to date on what The Heritage Foundation is doing or their role in GOP policy and strategy. They've been crafting the legislation and vetting the judges you've been voting for for decades.
I know what the heritage foundation is. It has not scared me up to this point.

Biohawk said we would be "scared shitless" by project 2025. What is scary about this?

I have cited the democrat playbook from the WEF, UN, Sustainable Development Goals. George Soros has been getting people in office for a while to implement certain policies. I have explained why I believe those are not good for America.

I was not aware of project 2025 before today, so if it is a scary thing, please tell me what it is and why it is scary. I am willing to change my mind if you give compelling reasons.
 
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If that's going to be what people are voting for, they need to be clear on who these "handlers" are and what their qualifications are. If he's not even making the decisions on who these handlers are, we have a bigger problem we need to hash out imo.

It's the cabinet and senior White House staff. Their identities aren't secret.
 
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I'm a liberal dem and Biden and the Democrats betrayed me. They told me Joe was functional. He is not. Not even close. I abhor, detest and want to piss on Trump. I will never vote for that ahole but I cannot vote for Joe either. Run someone else, anyone else. For those of you justifying yesterday's performance, do realize this person is running this f'ing country. Does he even know where he is? Honestly?

I will wait for an open convention (but Dems are too stupid to call a spade) or not vote for either loser. I didn't vote for Hillary for the same reason. F these aholes.
You silly SOB! 😂 As smart as you pimp yourself out to be, you couldn’t tell he was a walking clusterphuck before you voted for a potted plant in 2020? How many times did people ask, “will this brain dead fool even make it through that term?” You never had a phucking clue until last night?!?!?!?!?! 😂🧟😂🧟😂🧟🤡🤡
 
I know what the heritage foundation is. It has not scared me up to this point.

Biohawk said we would be "scared shitless" by project 2025. What is scary about this?

I have cited the democrat playbook from the WEF, UN, Sustainable Development Goals. George Soros has been getting people in office for a while to implement certain policies. I have explained why I believe those are not good for America.

I was not aware of project 2025 before today, so if it is a scary thing, please tell me what it is and why it is scary. I am willing to change my mind if you give compelling reasons.

It would be a lot more efficient for you to read it yourself. As to whether you might find it scary or not, I don't care. That phrase to me seems like obvious hyperbole to convey a negative opinion and shouldn't be taken so literally that you focus on the language or how it might make you feel.

And yeah it might take a long time but most important things do.
 
I'm a liberal dem and Biden and the Democrats betrayed me. They told me Joe was functional. He is not. Not even close. I abhor, detest and want to piss on Trump. I will never vote for that ahole but I cannot vote for Joe either. Run someone else, anyone else. For those of you justifying yesterday's performance, do realize this person is running this f'ing country. Does he even know where he is? Honestly?

I will wait for an open convention (but Dems are too stupid to call a spade) or not vote for either loser. I didn't vote for Hillary for the same reason. F these aholes.
The Dem Party is in full meltdown! 130 days until Biden and the Dems get their asses handed to them in the election!
 
I don't really understand giving Trump the benefit of the doubt regarding the Project 2025 thing. I'm fairly certain it was his former appointees that came up with the plans. I'm guessing folks he would put into his administration if he were to win again.

Let's not forget, this man and his folks had an entire fake electors plot created in order to overturn an election that they KNEW they lost. He's a cheat and doesn't deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt at any point in time.
I understand where you're coming from, but let's clear things up. It seems "Project 2025" was suggested by some of his former appointees, possibly outlining plans they might pursue if he's re-elected. However, it's unfair and irresponsible to automatically assume that Trump and his campaign fully support every aspect of the project and intend to dismantle our government.

Our options aren't great, but we'll handle whatever comes our way, regardless of who wins. Let's steer clear of spreading fear and focus on maintaining perspective. Statements like, "the remainder of your life will be much darker if you aren't a white, Christian American making more than $500k a year" are simplistic and fear-mongering.

Yes, his campaign has commented that I aligns well with their "Agenda47", but the real truth is that Trump does not lay out plans for policy really ever and almost everything that was done(including his appointments) by his administration prior to the last 25% of his term had been laid out by the Heritage Foundation and similar think tanks.
That's not entirely true. While Trump's campaign may have mentioned aligning with certain agendas, he never simply followed the Heritage Foundation's orders, or any think tank, at the end of his term or throughout his presidency. While he did agree with them on some issues later on, his decisions weren't solely influenced by them. Trump often did things his own way, making choices based on his own priorities and instincts (good or bad), even if they didn't always align with traditional conservative or the Heritage Foundation views. To say otherwise is simply untrue.
 
I understand where you're coming from, but let's clear things up. It seems "Project 2025" was suggested by some of his former appointees, possibly outlining plans they might pursue if he's re-elected. However, it's unfair and irresponsible to automatically assume that Trump and his campaign fully support every aspect of the project and intend to dismantle our government.

Our options aren't great, but we'll handle whatever comes our way, regardless of who wins. Let's steer clear of spreading fear and focus on maintaining perspective. Statements like, "the remainder of your life will be much darker if you aren't a white, Christian American making more than $500k a year" are simplistic and fear-mongering.
We can agree to disagree on the Project 2025 thing with Trump. I don't believe bringing it up is fear mongering at all. It's best EVERYONE knows exactly what it is and how it would impact their own lives.

I hate to go back to it, but Trump already had lawyers and friends attempt to help him overturn a free and fair election. There's absolutely NO reason to think he wouldn't attempt to do the exact same thing w/ Project 2025. Just my opinion.
 
It would be a lot more efficient for you to read it yourself. As to whether you might find it scary or not, I don't care. That phrase to me seems like obvious hyperbole to convey a negative opinion and shouldn't be taken so literally that you focus on the language or how it might make you feel.

And yeah it might take a long time but most important things do.
Weak.
 
We can agree to disagree on the Project 2025 thing with Trump. I don't believe bringing it up is fear mongering at all. It's best EVERYONE knows exactly what it is and how it would impact their own lives.

I hate to go back to it, but Trump already had lawyers and friends attempt to help him overturn a free and fair election. There's absolutely NO reason to think he wouldn't attempt to do the exact same thing w/ Project 2025. Just my opinion.
I agree that simply discussing it isn't fear mongering, but the comments we've seen earlier in this thread certainly are.

Let's hope the left wakes up and takes action before it's too late, so we never have to experience a second Trump term - but I don't see any way that Biden wins in November.
 
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I'm a liberal dem and Biden and the Democrats betrayed me. They told me Joe was functional. He is not. Not even close. I abhor, detest and want to piss on Trump. I will never vote for that ahole but I cannot vote for Joe either. Run someone else, anyone else. For those of you justifying yesterday's performance, do realize this person is running this f'ing country. Does he even know where he is? Honestly?

I will wait for an open convention (but Dems are too stupid to call a spade) or not vote for either loser. I didn't vote for Hillary for the same reason. F these aholes.
You’re not a betrayed liberal Dem. You have zero awareness.
 
I understand where you're coming from, but let's clear things up. It seems "Project 2025" was suggested by some of his former appointees, possibly outlining plans they might pursue if he's re-elected. However, it's unfair and irresponsible to automatically assume that Trump and his campaign fully support every aspect of the project and intend to dismantle our government.

Our options aren't great, but we'll handle whatever comes our way, regardless of who wins. Let's steer clear of spreading fear and focus on maintaining perspective. Statements like, "the remainder of your life will be much darker if you aren't a white, Christian American making more than $500k a year" are simplistic and fear-mongering.


That's not entirely true. While Trump's campaign may have mentioned aligning with certain agendas, he never simply followed the Heritage Foundation's orders, or any think tank, at the end of his term or throughout his presidency. While he did agree with them on some issues later on, his decisions weren't solely influenced by them. Trump often did things his own way, making choices based on his own priorities and instincts (good or bad), even if they didn't always align with traditional conservative or the Heritage Foundation views. To say otherwise is simply untrue.

I honestly do not know what you're trying to get across here. I think it would help if you understood that I in no way have ever said Trump is "solely" was influenced by think tanks, because honestly to try to claim that standard is pretty silly.

Where do you think the people and policies of his administration came from?
 
Are you becoming delusional?

Yes, Biden has issues and yes he is going to lose but Trump is hated by a majority of the country. He will likely win similarly to how he did in 2016.
Yeah, it’s hard to imagine a Reagan landslide again, we’re more sectional than then.
 
Plenty of people, former secretaries of defense, Chancellor of Germany, etc. explained that extending NATO to Ukraine would provoke Russia. The Russians repeatedly said it would be viewed as a "hostile act".

Russia has responded as those people predicted. They were right.

The neocons that pushed NATO expansion are now trying to tell us this war would have happened regardless, but there is zero evidence to support that.

We're left with the question, did the neocons understand that Merkel, etc. were correct, and Putin would see it as an "act of war", thus provoking the war deliberately, or were they genuinely naïve to the threat, and Ukraine is getting wrecked consequent to that poor understanding?

Which one do you think it is?
So you buy the fact that we control the actions of the Russians. Jesus, why can't you just accept that Putin is an asshole and wants to take over other countries? Why does everything have to be a conspiracy that starts from the dark shadow government that "obviously" is what runs the United States. When does the Illuminati get involved? Is it actually just aliens controlling us? FFS, you are insane.

Putin has a small dick and he needs to compensate by invading other countries. It really is that simple. Those other things are just excuses that really don't make any sense. If it wasn't those things, he would have invented something else.
 
I honestly do not know what you're trying to get across here. I think it would help if you understood that I in no way have ever said Trump is "solely" was influenced by think tanks, because honestly to try to claim that standard is pretty silly.

Where do you think the people and policies of his administration came from?
Haha, seriously? You and others are acting like Trump backs Project 2025 and will actually go through with it if he wins. I mentioned he's never just followed The Heritage Foundation or any other think tank, so why would he suddenly start now? You also said his campaign supports Project 2025, but I haven't found any evidence of that.

Honestly, I'm not that into this to keep going back and forth with you. Just go back to trying to scare everyone into voting how you want them to.
 
So you buy the fact that we control the actions of the Russians.

No, not control. Provoke.
It was understood years before the invasion that extending NATO to Ukraine would be seen as an “act of war” (Merkel’s words) and as a “hostile act” by the Russians themselves.

The red line was understood.
Neocons pushed across it, and my question is do you think they did so deliberately, expecting Russia to react by invading, or do you think these policy makers were genuinely naive to that outcome?

If it isn’t a ‘conspiracy’, they’re just bumblers with a bad read on the situation, right?
 
Republicans said Biden is a vegetable, liberals said no way and he will prove it. Now we hear how liberals are voting for the team and not Joe. Either candidate America loses.
Oh you didn't understand what I was asking which isn't surprising. Hope you have a great weekend!
 
Lots to unpack in this thread. But the simple reality is that this election will be decided by moderate independent voters in a few select states.

Joe lost those voters last night. The right leaning suburban soccer moms who were disgusted by Trump in 2020 may just stay home in 2024. Roe v Wade might get them out to vote, but I question it after last night’s debacle.

The never Trumper Republicans? They will stay home too. Why would they vote for this shit show when they don’t like his policies anyway?

The youth vote? Forget it. Joe is not energizing the twenty-something set.

If the dems want to actually win they have to ditch the vegetable and get serious with a real candidate - and NOT one from California.

Whitmer/Buttigieg would clean Trump’s clock. There is still time and failure to make this change is utter narcissism on the part of dem leadership.
 
Haha, seriously? You and others are acting like Trump backs Project 2025 and will actually go through with it if he wins. I mentioned he's never just followed The Heritage Foundation or any other think tank, so why would he suddenly start now? You also said his campaign supports Project 2025, but I haven't found any evidence of that.

Honestly, I'm not that into this to keep going back and forth with you. Just go back to trying to scare everyone into voting how you want them to.

Huh?
 
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