Better coach— Fry or Ferentz?

[UNIowaHawk]

Both have the same number of wins— Ferentz in one fewer season, but Fry in two fewer games.

Fry took over a program that was in a two decade drought. Ferentz took over a team that was in a few season drought.

Ferentz has three prime Bowls with 1 win. Fry was 0-3.

Ferentz is more of a conservative in game manager where Fry was a “scratch where it itches”.

Fry had an abundance of assistant coaches get head coaching gigs. I can’t think of any from Ferentz era.

 

[Suterman]

Both were/are great coaches and both will be in the College Football Hall of Fame. Why try to pick a better or worse? Both were/are great Hawkeyes.

 

[sober_teacher]

I don’t think there’s an answer here, the eras are completely different. Hayden had to build a program from scratch, but Kirk has had more quality opponents year in and year out.

Honest question, Iowa played 9 bowl teams this year, what was the most Iowa played under Hayden?

 

[UNIowaHawk]

I don’t think there’s an answer here, the eras are completely different. Hayden had to build a program from scratch, but Kirk has had more quality opponents year in and year out.

Honest question, Iowa played 9 bowl teams this year, what was the most Iowa played under Hayden?

This falls into your era comment imo. There are more bowls now so the argument is moot.

 

[pamarcole]

Also the number of athletes on scholarships is less than it use to be. That levels the playing field today compared to years ago!

 

[QChawks]

I honestly think it’s a even at this point.

They both have had great success but also a few turd seasons.

I think if KF can muster one more big ten title he would stand on the throne of Iowa coaches.

 

[scotthawk1964]

I honestly think it’s a even at this point.

They both have had great success but also a few turd seasons.

I think if KF can muster one more big ten title he would stand on the throne of Iowa coaches.

Agreed, and if he can get this offense to gel and play consistent the next two seasons, he will have that chance. They played 9 bowl teams this year and had they been consistent offensivly could and possibly should have won them all.

 

[icwesthawk]

Fry and it's not even close. He turned 20 years of dumpster fire and brought back to national prominence. Give me Fry everyday over KF.

 

[timt1986]

Fry

 

[DogBoyRy]

Fry and it's not even close. He turned 20 years of dumpster fire and brought back to national prominence. Give me Fry everyday over KF.

Fry proved it could be done at iowa. He also had great assistants and wasn’t afraid to run off bad ones.
KF is as good as most but a little stubburn as GDGD sticking around way to long shows.

 

[ScoutRefugee]

Fry.

 

[IamHawkeye]

Fry proved it could be done at iowa. He also had great assistants and wasn’t afraid to run off bad ones.
KF is as good as most but a little stubburn as GDGD sticking around way to long shows.

What bad ones did Fry run off? Long?

 

[hknation]

What's the comparison of top 10 or 25 finishes?

What's comparison of Coach of the Year awards?

What's the comparison of players to the NFL?

 

[Mesahawk1]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I lived through many of the losing seasons that preceded the miracle Rose Bowl year of 1981, so no one will ever replace Coach Fry in my fan-heart. I recall believing that while we might not have had an advantage in talent, I always believed that Iowa had an advantage in coaching. I truly like Coach Ferentz but don't have that feeling any longer. I believe that promoting Brian smacked of nepotism and should not have been approved, I hope he proves me wrong.

So, I'll root for the Hawkeyes just as enthusiastically now as I did in the Fry era, but don't expect me to agree that Coach Ferentz is as good or better than Coach Fry. And while nothing would make me happier than adding a national championship trophy to the discussion, it's still a pointless discussion IMHO (but I also agree that message boards are just the place for such discussions).

Here's to a great 2018 season for the Hawkeyes!!

 

[icantfindausernamethatisntused]

Tough to compare for many reasons. I'll go with Fry because I don't think Ferentz could have matched Fry's ability to turn the program around. Fry's innovation and personality was needed at the time he was hired to bring some excitement to the program. I think Ferentz's workman-like approach was a good fit at the time he was hired. Both were/are excellent coaches and great ambassadors for the university.

 

[42hawk]

Both were/are great coaches and both will be in the College Football Hall of Fame. Why try to pick a better or worse? Both were/are great Hawkeyes.

I think this is the right anwer. One thing to consider; HF best years were between 81-91 and for 8 years his OL coach was KF. So KF was a really big part of 68 of HF wins.

 

[Mohawkeye]

I honestly think it’s a even at this point.

They both have had great success but also a few turd seasons.

I think if KF can muster one more big ten title he would stand on the throne of Iowa coaches.

Both belong on the Mt Rushmore of Iowa football coaches, but neither can equal Evashevski’s success. Unless KF wins a national title, which isn’t happening.

 

[cmhawks99]

I think this is the right anwer. One thing to consider; HF best years were between 81-91 and for 8 years his OL coach was KF. So KF was a really big part of 68 of HF wins.

GREAT point.....I'll have some pertinent stats again soon, but the reality is "why" pick?! They were both awesome and timely...With that said I immediately bristle anytime someone says easily and cavalierly, like Scout, one of the absolutely nastiest posters on his site....FRY like its a landslide...

Fry did not run of bad assistants, in fact what is uniformly considered one of our worst coaches was the O-line coach (don't remember his name) late in his career. I honestly don't remember him running anyone off..KF definitely has.....

HF had many detractors...I was those stands....

Its a memory problem for some and just flat stubbornness for others...

 

[hawkblood]

Different times but Fry... better recruiting and more innovative by far at least for me.

 

[bagdropper]

They both accomplished roughly the same levels nationally during their respective periods. While I'll always treasure the fact Fry showed it can still be done at Iowa and effectively ended the Big 2 Little 8 conference dominance (while fielding the one and only Iowa #1 team in the land during my lifetime), I'll always treasure Ferentz' Orange Bowl win as the combined era's peak bowl win, along with making as many Big 3 Bowls total as Fry did.

If Iowa happens to get another major bowl win (or make today's iteration of the playoff) in his time remaining, IMHO he'll overtake Fry. Otherwise, today - for me they sit as their wins indicate - dead even.

And yes...they both were/are GREAT head coaches. If we had merely average guys, we'd effectively be Minnesota as far as program gravitas the last 40 years.

 

[ichawk24]

We are lucky to have had both of them covering 38 years. I'd say Fry was a smidge "better", though Ferentz may pass him in overall accomplishments.

 

[scotthawk1964]

I think this is the right anwer. One thing to consider; HF best years were between 81-91 and for 8 years his OL coach was KF. So KF was a really big part of 68 of HF wins.

And he had Bill Snyder those years as well. I think we would probably all take Bill Snyder over KOK, although I do not dislike KOK like so many here seem to.

 

[soybean]

I don’t think there’s an answer here, the eras are completely different. Hayden had to build a program from scratch, but Kirk has had more quality opponents year in and year out.

Honest question, Iowa played 9 bowl teams this year, what was the most Iowa played under Hayden?

Many more bowls now...so its easier to play more bowl teams.

 

[DogBoyRy]

What bad ones did Fry run off? Long?

Long left under Ferentz I think. I think Long was offered the Ok job and Ferentz told him he should take it.
Verducci among others were run off by fry..

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

Ferentz, but it's really close.

Some of us older Hawks can recall how bad Iowa was for 20 years before Fry got here. K-State bad, and Fry had Iowa in the Rose Bowl in 3 years. Not many coaches could have ever done that.

Fry was a better recruiter and assembled an amazing staff.

But Fry's teams to me beat up on weaker teams and did not do so well against better teams.

Ferentz's teams played when scholarship limits were implemented, big money was flowing into the game, and talent was more evenly distributed.

Ferentz did a mini-turnaround of his own when Fry left the shelves empty.

Ferentz's teams played better ISU, NW, Wisconsin and Minny teams than Fry's.

Ferentz has taken Iowa to the same number of major bowls as Fry and won one. Fry didn't.

Ferentz has more ranked and higher ranked teams overall.

Ferentz is a better identifier and developer of talent.

The only thing keeping Ferentz from going down with the best B1G coaches of all time is his inability to figure out a consistent offensive scheme and some head shaking in-game strategy decisions.

We have been really lucky to have had both of them at Iowa.

 

[DodgerHawki]

GREAT point.....I'll have some pertinent stats again soon, but the reality is "why" pick?! They were both awesome and timely...With that said I immediately bristle anytime someone says easily and cavalierly, like Scout, one of the absolutely nastiest posters on his site....FRY like its a landslide...

Fry did not run of bad assistants, in fact what is uniformly considered one of our worst coaches was the O-line coach (don't remember his name) late in his career. I honestly don't remember him running anyone off..KF definitely has.....

HF had many detractors...I was those stands....

Its a memory problem for some and just flat stubbornness for others...

Appreciate them both for bringing more success over decades than our peers in the league in terms of recruiting base and demographics. The Fry teams with the staff of KF, Snyder, Alvarez, McCarney, Brashier, etc. was something to behold. There was a definite drop-off after all of those mentioned left (how couldn't there be?) but Hayden did what many said was impossible. And most would not say it's possible to win 10 games 5 times in 19 years, or have a 12-0 regular season or a 8-0 conference season twice (like KF has done).

 

[kwik44]

It's so close that it will come down to next season, at least for me. Win 10+ next year and Ferentz gets the nod.

 

[wj]

As others have said, both great men and great coaches. Different football eras. Hope KF keeps coaching. Would not have traded either of them for someone else.

 

[cmhawks99]

Ferentz, but it's really close.

Some of us older Hawks can recall how bad Iowa was for 20 years before Fry got here. K-State bad, and Fry had Iowa in the Rose Bowl in 3 years. Not many coaches could have ever done that.

Fry was a better recruiter and assembled an amazing staff.

But Fry's teams to me beat up on weaker teams and did not do so well against better teams.

Ferentz's teams played when scholarship limits were implemented, big money was flowing into the game, and talent was more evenly distributed.

Ferentz did a mini-turnaround of his own when Fry left the shelves empty.

Ferentz's teams played better ISU, NW, Wisconsin and Minny teams than Fry's.

Ferentz has taken Iowa to the same number of major bowls as Fry and won one. Fry didn't.

Ferentz has more ranked and higher ranked teams overall.

Ferentz is a better identifier and developer of talent.

The only thing keeping Ferentz from going down with the best B1G coaches of all time is his inability to figure out a consistent offensive scheme and some head shaking in-game strategy decisions.

We have been really lucky to have had both of them at Iowa.

Great thoughts....

 

[anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba]

Fry. Period. Ferentz didn't have to build a program. Hayden did. There's no comparison.

Fry built Iowa up, KF poor-mouths Iowa every time he opens his mouth.

Fry, overall, played much more difficult nonconference schedules. He was innovative and intelligently aggressive.

KF is a stubbornly conservative micromanager.

 

[cmhawks99]

Before I start this please know....I loved Hayden Fry and he "IS" Iowa, but one thing I get frustrated about as I grow older is a lack of fair perspective and people (all of us at times) can fall into this. As a result I've been accused of being a HF hater and now a KF apologist, but what I am is a pragmatic realist. Sometime back I began studying this a little because I remember being in those stands in the late 80s/early 90's when people would complain and I said hmmmm, lets look at these numbers....

So lets look at what people "think"...

HF was an offensive genius....

HF rarely if ever had bad losses...

HF played much better competition ...

Scratched where it itched and never had the offensive futility we currently have.

Never ever lost to bad teams....some of those are redundant but you can tell people REALLY believe it.

Was a better recruiter, therefore had more talent....

"Filled" the cupboard because it was bare....

Lets start there....with that bare cupboard in 79, they lost to 8-4 Indiana 26-30, 11-1 OU, 6-21, 10-2 Nebbie 21-24, 10-2 PU 14-20. Maybe just maybe his genius was "fixing" the culture and winning attitude, not the cupboard...It didn't seem that bare based on the above. Furthermore, the "Old timers" have told me many times Iowa had talent in the 60's and 70's, what they lacked was effort, desire, toughness, coaching, etc...a cursory looks makes that seem plausible.

The schedule....Hmmm, early on yes HF played some juggernauts to gain credibility, as time progressed we played Drake, Kent St, UTEP, etc, when those teams were AWFUL!!!!!! We even LOST to a 4-7 Tulsa team with our team being LOADED with future NFL players, remember....

Now one of the all-time nasty critics Aristotle is above in this thread and I'll wager he has seen me break this down before, but if not here goes.... I am using a very simple criteria. The amount of times both Men scored 40+ points vs BIG competition, scored 14 or less vs BIG competition and lost/tied to sub .500 BIG competition. Why...?!?! Well it should be obvious, but it is a "controlled" group that I think most if not ALL objective observes can admit, albeit begrudging for some, is way tougher now.

It wont take into account, national, which ALSO is tougher, sorry guys, but true...or weak arse Iowa St, etc in the 80's....but it will shock some people...Please check my numbers, I have now counted it 100 plus times over the last year or so and every time I still shake my head because I too, was a little surprised. I could be off by a game or two, but the Spirit will be the same.


COACH A COACB B

Scored 40+.......... ..26 times.. Scored 40+............22 times...
Scored 14 or/less.. 32 times.... Scored 14 or/less...49 times
Lost/Tied ....13 sub.500 teams Lost/Tied..14 sub.500 teams


Now guess which coach is which?! This doesn't count losses to .sub. 500 OCC teams or points scored vs OCC or any other numbers that I found equally shocking.

These suffice.... and tells you all you need to know. Memory is a fickle thing, but as I "remember" more accurately, I'm beginning to realize how much better it has been in recent times than I realized.

 

[cmhawks99]

Something else that a reread of Aristotle's post reminded me.....Hayden "built up" KF poor mouths...Holy crap where do you buffoons think he learned that.

Hayden was famous for saying our 1's could play with anyone but when we got hurt not so much, then EVERY Saturday he'd get on the radio and whine about how he didn't know if we could field a team. My dad used to joke with me on the way up..do you think we should go bud, sounds like Hayden doesn't think we have a shot....honestly how do people not remember this or let it go, yet hold KF to the fire for a similar approach...?!

Its kind of shi&^%Y honestly and definitely ignorant...

 

[Franisdaman]

Fry and it's not even close. He turned 20 years of dumpster fire and brought back to national prominence. Give me Fry everyday over KF.

People love to forget that Fry had 7 bad/mediocre seasons in this last 11:

1988: 6-4-3

1989: 5-6-0

1992: 5-7

1993: 6-6

1994: 5-5-1

1997: 7-5

1998: 3-8


Why does Hayden Fry get a pass? 7 bad season in his last 11!!!

KF inherited a mess from Fry; I was at Fry's last game in the Metrodome and there was whispering that his players quit on him that season! And anybody that witnessed that game had to be worried about what was to come, not only in the new coach BUT if we would be able to dig out of the hole Fry left the program in.

KF took the mess that Fry left him and won ONE game his first year and just 3 games his 2nd year. You don't think that took a look of work to turn things around? But hey, lets give Fry a pass on the mess he left KF.

Even the great Hayden Fry struggled to win at Iowa. For every 3 games Hayden won, he lost 2. Think about that for a second.

Fry never won a BCS level bowl game. He got blown out in every Rose Bowl he appeared in. He never won a national title.

But hey, lets re-write history and continue to rip on KF.

I love Hayden Fry and I love what he did for Iowa. But I am not going to ignore things like what I typed above.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

It will end up being KF, his story isn’t over. I think Iowa will be pretty strong the next few years adding to Ferentz career.

 

[JEDN]

Hayden Fry resurrected Iowa from the grave and did it with great charisma whileFerentz has maintained the program at a moderate level. Hayden by a landslide!

 

[cmhawks99]

Hayden Fry resurrected Iowa from the grave and did it with great charisma whileFerentz has maintained the program at a moderate level. Hayden by a landslide!

The "charisma part" is the key to your statement. I don't mind somebody's opinion I get that... but put something a little tangible to it for the rest of us so we can understand it. Hayden scored 40 points verse big team competition less times than KF, he scored 14 points or less vs BIG waaaayyu more times and he lost two or tied a similar amount of sub 500 teams. How is he better in a landslide?

Now again I understand some of this kind of stuff is sacred and I don't begrudge anybody's opinion. But I can't find any measurable data that would suggest they're probably even equal anymore, let alone Hayden is better in a landslide.

If it's rescuing us from 20 years of ineptitude sure I get that...but as I pointed out earlier there was clearly more talent on those early teams then even the most positive fan realized. So his greatest gift was psychology, energy & that charisma you mentioned which apparently we are still under.

No major bowl wins, two top 10 finishes, was really average at absolute best his last 8/9, years we seem to be on an upswing right now.

As it turns out when you look at comparative scores he wasn't near the offensive juggernaut I remember him to be and had Way more inept performances on offense to boot.

Hell l, Hayden had 49 games va big team competition where he scored two touchdowns or less.....WTH!!! This generation & this era would not give him a pass on that...can you at least explain that part to me?

 

[BigHawksFan]

Despite my criticism of KF during recent years, I am truly thankful that we have been blessed to have him as coach. I have many good things to say about KF, but I still think he is on the cusp of being washed up, and might be in his last few years at the helm. I've always been a big Hayden Fry fan, too, but even I acknowledged toward the end that it was time for someone else.

When it's all said and done, they're both legendary coaches that Hawkeye Nation can be proud of.

 

[Franisdaman]

Hayden Fry resurrected Iowa from the grave and did it with great charisma whileFerentz has maintained the program at a moderate level. Hayden by a landslide!

a landslide would describe what happened to Fry's teams in the Rose Bowl

In Fry's last year, he almost buried the program; KF had to resurrect it and resurrect it he did

 

[DewHawk]

Fry and it's not even close. He turned 20 years of dumpster fire and brought back to national prominence. Give me Fry everyday over KF.

Agree not close IMO!

 

[cmhawks99]

Agree not close IMO!

Fair enough, then I have to assume you must enjoy what we have going on now because he had even more offensive ineptitude than KF. I'm also assuming you and others that think like you, would probably be a lot fairer about the constant criticism when we lose to sub 500 teams and score less than 14 points, correct?