Big Ten, Big Flop
- Thread starter GOHOX69
- Start date
The 0 to the E8 is understandable. The 2 to the S16 is not, especially when one of them is Michigan.
Strange.
Strange.
Watching Wisconsin lose essentially a home game told me everything I needed to know... 
I think there is merit to the belief the rough and rugged style of conference play causes a lot of attrition among players and teams and doesn’t serve the conference well come March.
The B1G Ten also didn’t have any real elite teams this year (Purdue was the closest), and that’s an obvious factor as well (which sadly puts the BTT championship in perspective).
Clearly athletic perimeter players/guards have been a constant in successful teams in this tourney.
1. Big Ten is not as physical as other leagues.
2. Refs are allowing more physical play in the tourney than regular season.
3 . Three point shooting has been worse in the tourney than regular season. Teams that live by three are dying in tourney.
Wis.- When Hepburn went down they were cooked.
IL- Frazier went cold late in year ...still should have advanced.
PU...Ivey had a bad game at the worst time. Close loss hurts.
RU- They had the type of team that could have advanced but needed another inside scorer.
Iowa- hot team should have won one but guards probably rule out beating Prov.
OSU- losing Young hurt in 2nd half.
But lacking guards.
IU- Phinisee being hurt was not good as they had lack of depth overall. TJD and X just not enough.
Mich- played well but Nova is a killer squad. Mich could not match up with Nova s wings.
MSU- played well..peaked in tourney..too many horses at Duke.
Big Ten needs more top pgs...bad year for pgs in league.
1. Big Ten is not as physical as other leagues.
2. Refs are allowing more physical play in the tourney than regular season.
3 . Three point shooting has been worse in the tourney than regular season. Teams that live by three are dying in tourney.
Wis.- When Hepburn went down they were cooked.
IL- Frazier went cold late in year ...still should have advanced.
PU...Ivey had a bad game at the worst time. Close loss hurts.
RU- They had the type of team that could have advanced but needed another inside scorer.
Iowa- hot team should have won one but guards probably rule out beating Prov.
OSU- losing Young hurt in 2nd half.
But lacking guards.
IU- Phinisee being hurt was not good as they had lack of depth overall. TJD and X just not enough.
Mich- played well but Nova is a killer squad. Mich could not match up with Nova s wings.
MSU- played well..peaked in tourney..too many horses at Duke.
Big Ten needs more top pgs...bad year for pgs in league.
Honestly, I think Pissconsin represents a lot of what’s wrong with the B1G Ten. Their style of mucking up the game as much as possible—grabbing, mugging, flopping, peter tapping (see Brad Dickhead Davison), and just garbage basketball in general, which B1G Ten officiating has rewarded for years—has a lot to do with why the conference is in bad shape.Watching Wisconsin lose essentially a home game told me everything I needed to know...
Look at what Michigan State has become. IMO, Tom Izzo followed Pissconsin’s playbook about a decade ago. At least, I don’t recall a lot of those fabulous MSU teams from the 2000s playing the garbage, thug basketball MSU has over the past decade or so. The difference between MSU and Pissconsin has usually been better athletes and scorers, but MSU very much mugs and mucks the game up on defense. And the results speak for themselves. Michigan State may compete better vs. Pissconsin and the rest of the BIG Ten (thanks to the old-school style the conference has regressed to), but that hasn’t exactly translated to success in March—at least not what Sparty is used to. From 1999-2010, they went to six Final Fours. Since 2010, two.
And you know why? Because—how does the rest of it go, @EvilMonkeyInTheCloset?
Ehhh, go ahead and keep diminishing the tournament championship. I’d much rather win the BTT and lose the first round game then not win the BTT and lose the second round game on Saturday. Which would’ve happened either way.
Big 10 was deep but not great this season. 3 from the ACC is a surprise. Talent in Basketball is pretty spread out. Big 12 only has 1 as well
I agree.
And the last part of your response kind of proves my point.
FTR, I think winning four B1G Ten games in four days is a hell of an accomplishment nonetheless.
Great post and I agree with everything you said. To add to that, there is a big difference between a coach focused on what they can do to make their own team function better and a coach that focuses on the opposing team to make them function worse. To be a great tournament coach I think you need to find every possible advantage, no matter how small, because all of these games are going to be tight, played with a lot of intensity and won in the last couple of minutes of the game.
I just don't see any of the B1G doing the little things it takes to win. Every opponent, no matter what seed, is going to want to play with effort and intensity and like it or not, that is being rewarded by the officiating. Every opponent is going to contest shots, take away transition, compete on the boards, and play as physical as they can get away with. This year shooting is at a premium for some reason. Could be the ball, tired legs, venues, who knows, but nobody is hitting shots. So when you take away the perimeter and transition, these games are going to be won in the 60's by ball dominant point guards. Every one of these games is coming down to the wire and all you see is ball screen after ball screen after ball screen for the point guard who keeps the ball in his hand until the end of the shot clock and then let him iso create. It's a broken record. And then who can hit their free throws at the end.
Big 10 had the most bids of any conference the last two years but least amount of Elite 8 teams (P6), there’s no sugar coating that it continues to be overrated.
Real good post here that puts things into perspective. Have commented in previous threads about how Wisonsin does the fundamental things really well like emphasizing defense and rebounding which they excelled at during Bo Ryan's tenure. At the same time I don't like the thuggish style of play either and agree with you about Izzo going down the same road. Don't know the answer to all of this but the game needs more flow to it. You can play with defensive intensity without all of the other crap.
Agree with the points on the original and reply posts. I think the new Wilson ball removed our offensive threat. Every advantage matters and helps in basketball - especially in a close game.
Some tidbits from the pros on the new ball late last year when they had to use it:
...Secondly, the NBA switched their ball to Wilson from Spalding in the offseason. The result of these changes? Comparatively low Averages in field goal and three-point percentages. Additionally, players are averaging fewer points per game than usual.
...The NBA changed their basketball from Spalding to Wilson for the first time in 37 years. It looks like are still getting used to the change. As a result, the league’s average 44.6 FG% is the lowest since 2004, while the 34.2% 3PT percentage is the lowest it’s been since 1999.
Perhaps the ACC doing well is Little bit like PAC12 doing really well last year...just random.
The B1G didn't deserve 9 teams, probably the big population base/eyeballs means more viewers/bigger advertising money and gets more teams in ncaa for that reason.
I don't buy the idea that B1G is over physical. If anything NCAA tourney was more physical. Clearly NCAA refs like a good flop, which is too bad. The Big Teams need to play more out of conference games vs Legit competition. Iowa in particular played almost nobody of consequence outside B1G.
The B1G still remains too focused on dinosaur ball.... Cockburn, Eddy/Willians, Dickinson...The B1G lacks elite guard play and quality guard depth and lacks athleticism for defense.
Iowa played small ball which is a winning formula, but JBO/Rebraca/PMac would not start on any of the sweet16 teams at their respective positions because all three are below average defenders.
Also think 4 games in 4 days takes a lot out of you and wears you out for the NCAA tourney.
Which is why the BIG should cut two games off the schedule and move the tourney up a week. That would give the teams at least 10 days to rest and recover before the NCAA. And a team like Iowa that wins the BIG tourney--4 games in 4 days--would not only have a well-deserved rest but plenty of time to enjoy and revel in that rare accomplishment. But no. Enjoy it for 24 hours, then fly all the way to Buffalo, NY, for a first round NCAA game on Thursday afternoon. Bullshit.
I’ve been saying there wasn’t an Elite 8 team all year long in this conference.
Looks like people are finally ready to listen.
Looks like people are finally ready to listen.
Right, because no other teams are coming off conference tournaments or playing 3-4 games in a row the week before. 🤔
Please list teams that played 4 games in 4 days that are still in NCAA tournament.
Very interesting, thank you for the data. Having a technical background I was curious if I could find standards and specifications on things like air pressure in the ball, rim tightness, backboard deflection, etc. I couldn't find anything and just those three things would be super easy to spec and control.
I still think a great coach that built a well-rounded team can adjust to varying conditions, and should, but it is ridiculous in these days and times, with the tools and technology we have, to not control basic parameters.
Or at least end it on Saturday. The Sunday game interferes with seeding the NCAAs anyway.
Big 10 last 2 years had a ton of great big men. Lacked elite backcourts. Tourney has proven if you have good guards can take you far. I agree with a previous statement with the grinding style of big 10 play does teams no favors as well come tourney time.
Looking at rosters of teams of guys graduating or expecting to go pro looks like big 10 will be much weaker next year. I know portal makes a difference but already see MSU 5* frosh max christy entered the portal.
Looking at rosters of teams of guys graduating or expecting to go pro looks like big 10 will be much weaker next year. I know portal makes a difference but already see MSU 5* frosh max christy entered the portal.
spot on comment, also one of the reasons a 'hockey style' substitution game plan will never work at a program like Iowa's who needs to rely on 3 & 4 star kids. I still feel there is a large talent gap watching these second weekend games, but that is not to say Iowa could not pull off a Loyola or Butler esque type of run at some point. Hard to believe that back to back Butler NC run's were over 11/12 years ago.....
Really? I've experienced both and I definitely would give up the tournament title in exchange for avoiding an upset in the first round of the NCAA. But different strokes for different folks.
Here is the NCAA link. It goes over ball specs, rim and backboard:
NCAA Publications - 2020-2021 NCAA Division I Manual
2020-2021 NCAA Division I Manual
www.ncaapublications.com
Here is how one vendor tests the rim - think NCAA requires testing 2x year, before regular season and before post season. A 90 sec video:
This is pre-Wilson EVO NXT article talking about game balls, from 2020:
Indiana Basketball: Different basketballs part of road challenge in Big 10?
The NCAA allows different branded basketballs during home games based on sponsorship and preference. A reason for Indiana basketball's struggles?
"According to the 2019-2020 NCAA Men’s Basketball Rules Book, “The circumference of the ball shall be within a maximum of 30 inches and a minimum of 29½ inches. The weight of the ball shall not be less than 20 ounces nor more than 22 ounces.”
"Each basketball: the Nike, Adidas, Under Armour and Wilson balls have different components from each other. The biggest contrast in the ball that can be felt is in terms of texture. Every ball has a different feeling when gripping it with smoothness being a large factor. When the upcoming game for the Indiana Hoosiers is a road game, they practice with the basketball used by the team that they’re traveling to in every practice leading up to that specific game."
"Below are the basketball brands that each Big Ten University uses and it aligns with each school’s main sponsor beside the University of Wisconsin who elected to go with the Wilson basketball.
Nike: Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue,
Adidas: Indiana, Nebraska, Rutgers
Under Armour: Maryland, Northwestern
Wilson: Wisconsin
Overall the Big Ten is 38-86 on the road in conference play this season for a road percentage of 30.6 percent, with no team having more than one more win than loss."
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Or get an NCAA guarantee the two Sunday finalists don’t play till Friday. How the B1G dumba$$ commish hasn’t garnered this as a requirement to finish the tourney on Sunday is beyond me.
Wisconsin was playing their absolute worst at the end of the season. Nebraska beat them in Madsion on Senior day. They lost their first round BIG game and damn near lost to Colgate. Not a surprise they bowed out early at all. (also missing their point guard)Watching Wisconsin lose essentially a home game told me everything I needed to know...
If Miami beats Kansas today, The Big 12 would be out of the tourney. They had 2 #1 seeds and a three seed. I guess you would have to say they flopped as a conference? Getting 9 teams in will never be a recipe for overall success in the NCAA tourney. It means there was a lot of balance. Conference is better off having 3 or 4 dominant teams that are capable of making a run.
Add in Johnny Davis injured his leg stumbling a lot worse than people know right before the flagrant 2 vs Nebraska that didn’t look too flagrant to me as McGowens didn’t even hit Davis. He attempted to hit him but completely missed. I thought an F1 at most, not F2 but that is Wisconsin getting the calls they always get at home.
Meh. BAU
Maybe next time tell our f***ing opponents to let Iowa win. It's worked before. Not sure why we stopped doing that......
Spot on and the conference results in the tournament continue to point to needed change. It reflects kind of an uncomfortable reality. This agreement put $$$ into the pockets of the networks and the people who run college sports in this case the conference and unfortunately that comes before anything else including the athletes who play the sport. Maybe the Big Ten will finally seek to modify this arrangement but I certainly wouldn't want to put any bets on it.
Their point guard got hurt right before halftime. He averaged 8 pts a game. ISU was winning when he got hurt. But yes that’s why they lost. Get real.
Not according to this:
Wisconsin loses point guard Chucky Hepburn to ankle injury in first half against Iowa State
After Tyrese Hunter dropped in a layup to get the Cylcones in the first half, UW's Chucky Hepburn crumpled to the court in pain with a left ankle injury.
www.jsonline.com
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