***Big Ten Tournament Session IV Thread***

[Trapper85]

You need to brush up on your history. This country was not founded on the separation of church and state.

You're right, it was founded on the annihilation of the existing peoples of this country, a good bit coordinated/motivated by religion, including their targeted attempts to destroy native (other) 'religions' which continued at least to the 1960's in many places here (and to the present in many places across the world). Yeah, yeah, that was the past, it don't matter now. Spare me the BS about how this country was founded and what the so-called founding principles were back then.

Damnit, I swore I would never let myself be drawn in to this crap. The Cesspool has powerful suction. My apologies.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Cael yo daddy

Okay, Cael's wife.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Did they interview Ayala...oh, wait.

No, because he's smart.

 

[Twoooooooo]

But this country was founded on one and not the other. Personally, I don’t care if you scream your love for any religion as long as you aren’t telling me I have to believe what you believe(sort of like what you do about Trump)…

Brush up on your history, And you will see that many of the founding fathers did not want our country founded on religion. About 40% of the founding fathers did not consider themselves religious at all. Hence the reasons on being reluctant to sign. It doesn’t bother me that kid wants to thank god in his post match interview but it does bother me how you have to constantly be right on all your posts

 

[MSU158]

Brush up on your history, And you will see that many of the founding fathers did not want our country founded on religion. About 40% of the founding fathers did not consider themselves religious at all. Hence the reasons on being reluctant to sign. It doesn’t bother me that kid wants to thank god in his post match interview but it does bother me how you have to constantly be right on all your posts

Actually read what I wrote before going on your whiny diatribe. I never said all. I said a significant majority you can try to use the recent revisionist history to come after me all you want. But, the simple truth is a significant majority was and still are Christian in this country. Nothing you said changes the fact that much of our important documents, currency and even the legal system involved God at many levels.

The best part of your response is the fact that I even said that Vodka has every right to feel how he does. I even said being openly religious is fine as long as you aren’t trying to push it on anyone else. I just find it beyond comical for someone to act like God wasn’t a giant part of the country and still is even with the more recent progressive shift…

 

[Twoooooooo]

You just can’t let things go without responding. Bet you and the wife get along great…

 

[js8793]

Some great wrestling analysis going on here fellas

 

[MSU158]

You just can’t let things go without responding. Bet you and the wife get along great…

So, I should just idly sit by and let you misquote me, essentially insult me and say things that are much less accurate than you implied? Makes perfect sense. Shame on me…

 

[LOTOlion]

Some great wrestling analysis going on here fellas

Which thread is that in??????

 

[bdcolt45er]

Brush up on your history, And you will see that many of the founding fathers did not want our country founded on religion. About 40% of the founding fathers did not consider themselves religious at all. Hence the reasons on being reluctant to sign. It doesn’t bother me that kid wants to thank god in his post match interview but it does bother me how you have to constantly be right on all your posts

Precisely many of the founding fathers believed in a creator but were not Christian. The actual foundational document the constitution does not contain any mention of a creator. Church membership was at an all time low in the 1790s. Many of the founders were deists and would not be accepted as Christian by modern Christians. The declaration of Independence mentions a creator but it's author like other deists did not believe in the divinity of Christ. Jefferson rejected Jesus's miracles, the virgin birth, and the resurrection. The US was founded on principles from the enlightenment.

 

[Iron Doc]

Precisely many of the founding fathers believed in a creator but were not Christian. The actual foundational document the constitution does not contain any mention of a creator. Church membership was at an all time low in the 1790s. Many of the founders were deists and would not be accepted as Christian by modern Christians. The declaration of Independence mentions a creator but it's author like other deists did not believe in the divinity of Christ. Jefferson rejected Jesus's miracles, the virgin birth, and the resurrection. The US was founded on principles from the enlightenment.

Time to weigh in.
bdcolt45er accurately described above the status quo of that time.
Look up Deism and the Jefferson Bible.

 

[Twoooooooo]

So, I should just idly sit by and let you misquote me, essentially insult me and say things that are much less accurate than you implied? Makes perfect sense. Shame on me…

No, please keep responding. It allows more on here to reaffirm the douche bag that you are. You constantly feel the need to be right and have the last word on everything. Just like this time,which will be the last time I respond to you. Yet you will respond as you never learned, TO LET THINGS GO. Sorry buddy, it’s not an insult if it’s the truth

 

[MSU158]

No, please keep responding. It allows more on here to reaffirm the douche bag that you are. You constantly feel the need to be right and have the last word on everything. Just like this time,which will be the last time I respond to you. Yet you will respond as you never learned, TO LET THINGS GO. Sorry buddy, it’s not an insult if it’s the truth

I am not running for Mayor on here. I don’t need to or care to say things to try to get people to like me. Whoever doesn’t, I am 100% content with that.

With that said, you honestly have NO IDEA what you are talking about when you label me. I have been wrong plenty and, if you look hard enough, you can find where I have openly admitted being wrong.

The real truth is that I don’t “feel the need to be right and have the last word”. If you look past the surface, nearly all the arguments I dive into are against those that are essentially Absolutists. THEY are the ones that are so convinced they are right that they actually insult any dissenting option that doesn’t exactly align with their’s.

Hell, many of the times I am simply playing Devil’s Advocate. In many cases I even say they may be right, but they are yet to have enough information to make that decision and/or are using the wrong information to form that decision.

Oh, and if you ask her, I am pretty sure my wife would say I have NEVER won an argument with her even when she tried to let me win…

 

[PSU Mike]

But how would those people respond if I claimed that it’s my calling and responsibility to preach atheism and the dangers of religion?

Guess you’ll have to win something important and deliver that in your post match interview to find out …

 

[ping72]

It never surprises me to see a thread here in the cesspool devolve into a completely off-topic pissing match…

 

[ping72]

But how would those people respond if I claimed that it’s my calling and responsibility to preach atheism?

I would respond with surprise… that you are on an Iowa wrestling message board and clearly do not know Dan Gable.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Guess you’ll have to win something important and deliver that in your post match interview to find out …

As much as I hate to say it - nice comeback!

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Huh? They thank their parents for their support, time, money, and love. All tangible.

They don't thank their parents because their parents granted them the win from the heavens.

Vodka - faith gives people strength and purpose. Wherever that is drawn from, so be it.

 

[el dub]

How about switching to Politics?

Finally. A voice of reason….
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/11/politics/trump-despots-advisers-sound-alarm/index.html

 

[bdcolt45er]

I would respond with surprise… that you are on an Iowa wrestling message board and clearly do not know Dan Gable.

Are you suggesting that because Dan Gable is religious all Iowa fans should share his beliefs? Do you want a religious test for the Iowa wrestling board?

 

[Iron Doc]

Finally. A voice of reason….
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/11/politics/trump-despots-advisers-sound-alarm/index.html

Yup. THAT's what we are up against.

 

[HawK + i]

He looks like he lost 10 lbs of muscle in the off-season too

Looks like a weight cut issue. In my opinion, I think Iowa has always struggled with weight management and energy performance under T&T, whereas I think PSU has it figured out down to a science.

 

[ping72]

Are you suggesting that because Dan Gable is religious all Iowa fans should share his beliefs? Do you want a religious test for the Iowa wrestling board?

No… I was making a “Gable = God” joke.

Guess it missed.

 

[masterhawk74]

None of that changes that I believe that thanking God in a public interview after an athletic win is cringe and cliche. Just as they have the right to say it in their interview, I have the right to say it's cringe and cliche.

You don't have to agree with me or like my comment. It's my opinion. It's subjective. If you want tolerance of belief, that has to include the belief of non religion as well, or it's just hypocrisy.

When in doubt, move the goal post.

 

[Aardvark86]

No… I was making a “Gable = God” joke.

Guess it missed.

Indeed. And just to be really clear, while Gable may be God, that doesn't mean you should thank him after each win, but it DEFINITELY means you should be drinking his recovery beverage

 

[masterhawk74]

Finally. A voice of reason….
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/11/politics/trump-despots-advisers-sound-alarm/index.html

 

[82bordeaux]

 

[el dub]

Ronny McD’s evil twin?

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

When in doubt, move the goal post.

What was the goal post? From the get go, my goal post has been that talking about God in a post match interview is cringe.

Then people brought up that "in God we trust" is written on our currency" and that we live in a Christian theocracy in response to my comment. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant to the fact that I find it cringe.

 

[MSU158]

What was the goal post? From the get go, my goal post has been that talking about God in a post match interview is cringe.

Then people brought up that "in God we trust" is written on our currency" and that we live in a Christian theocracy in response to my comment. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant to the fact that I find it cringe.

But you didn't just comment, you also asked why they do it. I just gave my thoughts on why it happens and how many still feel it should in this country.

With that said, although it doesn't bother me as much as you, I completely understand your stance on "cringe". iI can get to me if they don't keep it short and start preaching. Even though I am religious, I don't like when people try to push their beliefs or non-beliefs on other people. Hell, plenty of wars have been fought with millions of people killed because of that exact thing...

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

But you didn't just comment, you also asked why they do it. I just gave my thoughts on why it happens and how many still feel it should in this country.

With that said, although it doesn't bother me as much as you, I completely understand your stance on "cringe". iI can get to me if they don't keep it short and start preaching. Even though I am religious, I don't like when people try to push their beliefs or non-beliefs on other people. Hell, plenty of wars have been fought with millions of people killed because of that exact thing...

The "why" was rhetorical. We don't need to discuss thousands of years of the history of theology and culture of how we got to this point where wrestlers thank God in an interview after winning a match.

 

[herkyihawks]

Honestly for who Iowa wrestled, Iowa wrestled pretty decently. The issue is the jimmy's and joe's. There needs to be a real hard look on the type of wrestlers Iowa recruits. Not only need better p4p wrestlers, but also more athletic and better scrambling wrestlers. Then also letting wrestlers get into more scrambling situations. Iowa is so bad at scrambles.

 

[MSU158]

The "why" was rhetorical. We don't need to discuss thousands of years of the history of theology and culture of how we got to this point where wrestlers thank God in an interview after winning a match.

Come on, man. It's a message board full of back and forth. How in the HELL would someone begin to know that was a rhetorical question? Mind you, I actually agreed with you to an extent and completely supported you feeling that way...

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

Come on, man. It's a message board full of back and forth. How in the HELL would someone begin to know that was a rhetorical question? Mind you, I actually agreed with you to an extent and completely supported you feeling that way...

Q - "Why do guys thank God for winning wrestling matches. It's cringe and cliche".

A - "well because this country has a long history of Christian fundamentalism to extent that we put in God we trust on our money."

Sorry.....I thought the rhetoricalness was apparent. 😆

 

[MSU158]

Q - "Why do guys thank God for winning wrestling matches. It's cringe and cliche".

A - "well because this country has a long history of Christian fundamentalism to extent that we put in God we trust on our money."

Sorry.....I thought the rhetoricalness was apparent. 😆

Those weren't even close to the 1st responses. Instead of you coming right back with it being rhetorical you doubled down and ONLY THEN did the conversation go down that rabbit hole. Please feel free to look again at what my first response said. It had nothing to do with the answer you gave above...

 

[raslen007]

O

Yeah I hate that too. Winning a big ten championship is a big deal. Act like you appreciate your accomplishment at least.

Spencer says Hi.

 

[ping72]

Iowa State really need a new mascot.

 

[Muscles1989]

Tha

Looks like a weight cut issue. In my opinion, I think Iowa has always struggled with weight management and energy performance under T&T, whereas I think PSU has it figured out down to a science.

I agree, and that’s because it is a science and psu is leaps and bounds ahead of iowa in that regard. On the mat training to food, mental prep, recovery, everything.

 

[bdcolt45er]

Q - "Why do guys thank God for winning wrestling matches. It's cringe and cliche".

A - "well because this country has a long history of Christian fundamentalism to extent that we put in God we trust on our money."

Sorry.....I thought the rhetoricalness was apparent. 😆

Incidentally "in God we trust" was added to money in the 1860s and was codified in the 1950s so it is not something that can be traced back to the founding of the country.

 

[MSU158]

Incidentally "in God we trust" was added to money in the 1860s and was codified in the 1950s so it is not something that can be traced back to the founding of the country.

It actually coincides with the Civil War, which is probably the biggest "founding" moment of the current country makeup in terms of freedoms and religion.