I am not sure how that relates to the "real cost" of homes. Are you simply referring to cashflow without consideration of principal and interest, as well as home value? Sounds like a great way to be poor and stay poor.
Boomers don’t get it
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Anecdotal evidence is strong in this thread and probably not indicative of proof that an entire generation is one way or another, I have to admit.
I will say however that Boomers had different experiences growing up as a whole. Our Dads were WWII vets who usually got a job and stayed in it, for many reasons that reflected a desire for security and safety that sprang from their Depression childhood and war action. Many or most of us had stay at home Moms. So Boomers were sort of expected to do the same. Huge upheavals because so many of us decided to do things differently than our parents and the fact so many of us went to college added to that desire for change.
The job/career success was all important but so many women in our age group went to college too - and we wanted to “have it all”. Also, I think ours was the last generation to follow what we jokingly called the IBM model - “I’ve Been Moved” - and if you wanted to “climb the corporate ladder” you moved every 2-4 years. We were in one place just 8 months. (Hey we almost moved to Davenport in 1980) Our son went to six different schools, but by golly his father made President of one of his company’s divisions at 45.
Remember, you have to realize how much this country grew in the post WWII era. That will never happen with my son today. He refuses to do that - and has done very well anyway.
That’s just one change I applaud with Boomers kids. They do seem to value the ability to stay planted.
Like “shop” class in high schools? Standard up until the 70’s.
But now you can watch a YouTube video!
There is truth here. We didn't buy our first house until we were 30. Carpet and Pergo as far as the eye can see, with cheap-ass builder's grade cabinets, etc. Never saw the point in double vanities. I have no interest in brushing my teeth at the same time as my wife.
No, different from making benches and woodwork. Like a construction knowledge class.
Read a history book. There was a big push in the 80’s to change SSI so that we could control our deduction for SSI into investments similar to 401’s that might pay more than what the government could give us when we retired, but there were politicians who whispered to seniors at the time (boomers grandparents) that their retirement was in jeopardy-and it was voted down. So now here WE are and that’s how it is.
Raise the retirement age, lift the ceiling on SSI taxable earnings and stop giving out the biggest fraud of all which includes disability and underage SSI.
It was called “Industrial Arts”. Guys actually liked it.
All of it can be learned. I have taught myself to do pretty much everything, related to restoring a house, over the past 3-4 years. Most of it is in books and on Youtube. You are correct that equipment is a significant part of the investment.
PS....it also helps to know a few GCs. I have two very good ones who are neighbors as well as my cousin who lives in another state. That said, 90% of what I have learned is from good YT channels, then verified in books and then a lot of hours of trial and error.
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My children are not gifted - the idea of working 20 hours a week while taking classes is completely out of the question. Not to mention school, for both of them, is a couple of hours away - so they would have to manage to transition from one job to another twice a year every year without skipping a beat in order to get in a reasonable number of weeks of work.
My son, in fact, joined the National Guard. The pay, plus a little bit of financial assistance that it provided, did make a dent. Especially given the several weeks each summer of drill time and one-year deployment.
No matter how much you choose to use this topic to signal your personal virtue, the fact is college is MUCH more expensive now, so the sacrifices you made would be insufficient for today's students.
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I am constantly amazed at the things I can now accomplish thanks to YouTube. I was decently handy thanks to a father who taught me quite a bit. But I never would have tried repairing appliances, replacing a dishwasher or garbage disposal, etc. prior to YouTube. It seems anything that comes up that previously would have been a bunch of phone calls trying to get an expert out is, instead, just me watching YouTube then doing it myself.
That house does not need $200k in renovations to make it decent, safe, and sanitary. No way. In fact, as a first time homebuyer getting a mortgage you would get some protection on that from your bank as deficiencies like a failing roof would be vetted out during an appraisal and your homeowner's insurance wouldn't even lend on it. Besides, you should be paying for an inspection to reveal any issues up front.
Does that house need some upkeep? Yes, all starter homes do. But $200k would be an entire renovation along the lines of what you see on This Old House on Saturday mornings. Very unrealistic, yet so are the expectations these days.
I am going to fix, and pretty much overhaul, my 1990s era dryer. It is either a Maytag or Whirlpool. The belt is broken. I could easily pay someone but I'd rather spend a half day doing that because it will help me understand how to fix other things. I rebuilt my 6 year old Macbook recently for much the same reason. It works so well that I use it all the time and only occasionally use my months old Macbook. I am much more careful with the newer stuff b/c Apple made most of it near impossible to repair and they charge a small fortune if you take it to them to fix it.
Well, you would have real hardwood floors in the houses I posted because both of those houses are wall to wall original wood floors, and not the cheap stuff the sell pre-finished these days. Plus, that second house has some of the most beautiful crafted woodwork with built in casements.
Seriously, there are some real gems out there built in the early 20th century that are so much better built and have so many details, and they are readily available in small towns all across America.
What did you earn in the ‘70s?
I eventually got to $5/hour.,
First job at Frischs, on Tennessee Street was 1.10 per hour plus tips.
Everything you are saying is absolutely correct, but you are not including one very important factor. Boomers, as a group (not everyone) just DGAF. As long as they get theirs, that's all that matters. I suspect that's why many of them refuse to leave their positions of power as well.
Cough, cough, full of scat. Tell the kids where those homes are.
Cough, cough, full of scat.
4% is not an unreasonable expectation over 30 years. Plus if it was a matching situation it’s a no brainer
Only slight disagreement with this is that most inspectors are utterly clueless. If I was buying, first time and had to do all over again, either find an inspector who was previously a GC or pay extra for separate inspections by roofer, electrician and probably plumber. I might also include a foundation inspection depending on the age and location of the house.
You know median is not average?
"the typical value of U.S. homes is $269,039 as of January 2021,"
Which means more people have a better than average home
It would only take 4% rate of return to beat the bank.
In your scenario, if you invested the difference for 15 years, with a 5% rate of return, you would have 211k. Your amount owed on the mortgage after that 180th payment would be right around 188k. Pay the mortgage off if you want and you come out 23k ahead.
I'd go for foundation, roof, & electric for sure and make sure the HVAC system works. Add in a Home Warranty paid by the seller (if possible) at close, which is peanuts, and you'll be covered for any major appliances or HVAC.
Oh, you don't know about all of these things? Well, there is a little book you are supposed to get when you visit the bank about buying your home (most don't read) and a wealth of knowledge on the internet.
When I was renovating my house in the 90's it was based of knowledge gleaned from This Old House TV and magazines and other publications like that. These days with YouTube people have no excuses. Everything is out there.
I am early years Gen X, graduated high school in the mid-80s. I paid my way through FSU working in restaurants. A kid today couldn't come close to doing that. I never had a penny of college debt. I am also fortunate to have no debt at all today, including home and car. I have absolutely no problem admitting that my generation has had it far better than Millennials and Zoomers. It does not trigger me in the least to acknowledge this.
As for Boomers, them not getting it is BAU. The world revolves around them as far as they are concerned. You are wasting your time trying to change them or their archaic thinking. Other than a very small handful of them, they will never evolve.
If you think Boomers are annoying, try spending some time around Silent Generation members. I saw some Silent Generation relatives a few weeks ago and they were complaining about LBJ and his welfare programs. Never mind that these two people are both on Medicare, the very welfare about which they were lamenting.
As for Boomers, them not getting it is BAU. The world revolves around them as far as they are concerned. You are wasting your time trying to change them or their archaic thinking. Other than a very small handful of them, they will never evolve.
If you think Boomers are annoying, try spending some time around Silent Generation members. I saw some Silent Generation relatives a few weeks ago and they were complaining about LBJ and his welfare programs. Never mind that these two people are both on Medicare, the very welfare about which they were lamenting.
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Compare a college campus today vs 30 years ago. The amenities are not even comparable. The exercise facilities and dining facilities are beyond belief. Lazy rivers and water slides included.
The arms race is being partially fueled by the easy access to government loans.
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I doubt that he has the discipline to follow through with it, plus you are not factoring in taxes.
This comes across as a very Boomerish argument. They hate when anyone has anything for which they didn't suffer endlessly. They had so much handed to them but they want everyone else to "earn it."
I call it cost analysis. You want stuff? You pay for stuff.
you can shit your pants 24/7 and cry victim all you want. What you also need to do is plan for the reality that is the world today. And I am not no boomer. I still have kids in college and speak from personal real experience.
I'm sure the town in which your kids go to college has trailers. Put them there and then you won't have to shed a tear about modern standards of living.
I'll tell you what, we recently took our son for a campus visit to Iowa. Wow has it gotten a LOT nicer in the last 25 years. We were pumped up for him and ready to go back to school! Hope he chooses Iowa so can he can reap it, and I will be happy for him.
Maybe someday you will be able to vote yourself enough money away from people so you can live the live you are not capable of planning for yourself.
I bought in 2005. My inspection was a joke. I am a member of several old home restoration groups on FB and complaints about clueless inspectors is a monthly topic. If I ever buy again in Tampa, I now know of an excellent group of structural engineers who also do home inspections for home buyers. I have recommended them repeatedly to people moving here. If I buy somewhere else, it will be GC, electrician, etc., and as you added HVAC.
I used a mortgage company and not a bank. Does anyone use banks for home loans these days?
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Your thought processes and communication style displayed in this thread does not suggest you are currently maxing out your 401K, along with saving twice whatever else you were referencing. For your sake I hope I am wrong.
