What he did was very bad. More so than what we typically see as bad behavior. Having said that, coaches can be the best influences on young men. Troubled young men. Many kids get lost in high school because the 4 years is not long enough to crack through the toughest cases. You cant be an influence on someone your not around. Yea, he blew it. He has a gift from God to be guided through the sport. One last chance to learn lessons under the umbrella of the discipline and guardrails of the sport in college. I don't judge anyone who feels negatively about him. Frankly, he earned that. He will have to spend a large chunk of his life earning respect back from others and himself. OW, no OW. Good bracket or bad. Wrestling seems to be very important to him and if it keeps him in line and keeps him on the right path, great. In the end, that's what all this is really about. I will be frank and say I am not a fan of his. Having said that, I thank God above that there are opportunities to begin again even after numerous false starts. I wish him well and pray he continues to get better in all ways.
Brandon Sorensen Midlands Outstanding Wrestler
- Thread starter sloehawk
- Start date
Absolutely classless. We, including myself, jump all over Long when he screws up. Now some what to laugh at him and run him down when he's trying to straighten himself out? Wow, what a bunch of dicks.
I would agree with you in every point you just made. Not that they care but I did loose a little respect for the coaches with the whole MM thing. I always hoped Long would straighten his life out when he went to PSU not because I wanted them to do well but because I wanted him to turn his life around and get through his troubles. I won't cheer against him and would like to see him do well but I completely understand your thoughts on it.
I agree with points on both sides. What he did, warrants any negative feelings we may have. I am sure he understands that and would understand the posters that aren't willing or able to forgive and forget. Still, I am all for someone doing their time and making the best of the life afterwards. In the end they are called "Correctional Facilities" for a reason. The sad part is they are most often the opposite. It is NEVER easier to come out of one and be successful. I am happy that it appears that he has found a way to do so. I wish him the best and hope that, from now on, any time he does something of note it is POSITIVE. I wish him the best..................................................
I would also like to say that I STILL FIRMLY BELIEVE Sorenson deserves the MOW over him!
I would also like to say that I STILL FIRMLY BELIEVE Sorenson deserves the MOW over him!
Not confused at all. Varner should've won. He was more dominate IMO. People turtled up that year when facing Varner. Where I don't think that was the case w Ness.
I think I heard the announcers say something about Grand View being a Faith based institution and that Long being there and in good standing had gotten his life turned around. I'm all for that and wish him well in the future.
After some of the silly & stupid things I did while a youngster, I can't find fault with anyone else and any mistakes they've made in life. I just wish him well. And I wish the same for all of you also.
And I'm glad that Navalone and Retiredhawk have made up and are best buds again.
This is pretty much where I come from on this topic.
Did Andrew make some horrible decisions years ago? Sure.
Did many of us make stupid decisions in our teens and early twenties? Sure.
Does this fact (above) condone or lessen the severity of Andrew's mistakes in any way? Nope.
Are all of us flawed in our own ways and in need of forgiveness on many levels? Absolutely.
Is any of us in any position to stand in judgment of Andrew's past mistakes? I'd say not.
Is redemption from past transgressions worthy of respect and admiration? I sure think so.
Is Andrew Long a phenomenal wrestler who's doing his best with the options available to him? Absolutely, and I wish him the best in that endeavor. I'll be rooting for him.
And I might add. . . . Could Andrew Long be a factor on the freestyle circuit? I'd sure think so.
I agree with the majority of these things but that doesn't mean I have to get warm fuzzies over a 26 year old wrestling in college because he was in the slammer for awhile because of what I guess we will consider a "choice." I'm all in for him getting a degree and becoming a productive, upstanding member of society and I don't even blame him for playing by the rules. I just feel strange about celebrating it.
I don't have a specific opinion on Long, but I really really really super-duper hate the "we've all made mistakes in our teens and early 20s" thing. I've never served time in prison, Turkish or otherwise..
I agree on the we have made mistakes thing. Still, having a way to grow is a good thing.
Mexican jails don't count, so I'm good to go. I mean, who hasn't gone to jail while partying down in Mexico? amiright
I agree. I don't think people should be forever punished for mistakes they've made if they have truly repented and are building a new life. But I don't have to applaud them or brush away the harm they've done to themselves or others, either. He screwed up, royally and multiple times. Now he seems to be on track. I hope he is, and stays there for the rest of his life. But I hope that for a whole bunch of people who didn't have a free education waiting for them as a soft landing when they got out of the pokey.
Apparently, you didn't read my post very carefully.
The point isn't whether you've served prison time. Does the fact that you haven't served time in prison make you somehow morally or otherwise superior to someone who has? I'd argue -- quite strenuously -- that is doesn't. If you accept that premise, on what grounds would you, or anyone, refuse to acknowledge that he deserves some measure of respect and admiration for picking himself up after a fall? And on what basis would you, or anyone, insist on considering him unworthy of respect or admiration?
Does serving prison time preclude one from redemption? One would have a very difficult time justifying such a position in any logically cogent manner.
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Of course it doesn't. But saying that I'm tired of people using the "we all make mistakes so let's not criticize someone who committed assault and rape" does not mean I'm judging him at all, let alone unfairly. It means that I think part of redemption is owning your own mistakes and not making excuses. I have not heard any interviews with Long where he makes excuses for his past behavior, so why am I supposed to excuse it?
Great. I don't seen anyone "[brushing] away the harm [he's] done to [himself] or others. That would be stupid, frankly. If you prefer to refuse to applaud him, knock yourself out.
If you haven't heard any interviews with Long where he makes excuses for his past behavior, I'm not sure why you think you're supposed to excuse anything. Sounds to me like you shouldn't have any problem with that. Never mind the fact that I never said anyone was supposed to excuse anything.
FYI, I didn't "use the 'we all make mistakes so let's not criticize someone who committed assault and rape'", but that didn't keep you from implying that I did. Feel free to point out where I did. I'll help you out -- I said precisely the opposite.
You're right. You didn't say that I was supposed to excuse it, and I didn't mean to imply that you did say that but it certainly can be read that way.
And I'm sorry that I decided to have a tantrum over this topic at this particular moment and in reply to you because I agree with your posts on a vast majority of topics and now it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight with you. My response was less to you in particular (although yes, it was partially because you did use the "everyone makes mistakes when they're young" line) than with the fact that every time some wrestler gets in trouble you can set your watch by the fact that at least one person will jump in to make that excuse ("we all did dumb things in college", " "I'm glad the cops never caught me", etc.) And it's just not true. Everyone makes mistakes, but there are degrees of mistake and not everyone has driven while drunk or raped or whatever, but that stupid cliché still gets used every time. I'm sorry that it seems like I singled you out when in fact your posting was far more nuanced than the usual. Your post was just the breaking point of a cumulation of similar posts on similar subjects.
Also, I'm bored at work and need something to do.
I think we agree a lot more than we disagree on this, and I enjoy your posts. I understand your point and agree that there are degrees of mistakes. That's why I pointed out that the fact that we've all made mistakes does nothing to lessen the seriousness of Long's crimes. That said, I do think there's always room for redemption.
Not sure anyone said to "not criticize " Long. Think you're reading something into posts that aren't there.
Ok, well I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in thinking you did not understand the difference in awards. Now you have made it more than clear - you are not smart enough to understand. The Hodge is not subjective. They give eight levels of criteria. And none of them involve who jaybird thinks had more turtling opponents.
Please don't remind me of that 8-seconds of hell. Still doing my best to expunge that last-second 4-point move from my memory.
FYI there's only 7 very "subjective" criteria in Hodge voting. These criterias have been hashed over and over through the years. Pins are relative to competitive schedules, one tends to see more pins in Nov and Dec.....just wrestle a bunch of D3, D2 and juco to up pins totals
The reason this has been a topic for years is the eye test. Just like Long and BS eye test from Midland. Some think BS deserved to OW based on who he beat vs Long thrashing everyone.
Regardless we can agree to disagree on the Hodge winner. There's no one in the world that can convince me that Ness deserved OW at NCAAs that year also.
The reason this has been a topic for years is the eye test. Just like Long and BS eye test from Midland. Some think BS deserved to OW based on who he beat vs Long thrashing everyone.
Regardless we can agree to disagree on the Hodge winner. There's no one in the world that can convince me that Ness deserved OW at NCAAs that year also.
You should do some research into past winners and co-winners if your think Hodge is not subjective
He was the most dominate wrestler, perhaps because of the less than top flight competition he faced.
He was a grade a Jack ... at Iowa State. His problems were far from resolved when he was embraced by Sanderson at pen state. Without Long in the pen state lineup the year he wrestled there, Sanderson and pen state don't win.
He committed crimes at pen state which caused him to spend time in prison.
He now continues to do the one thing that he does well at an NAIA school near Des Moines. He is currently enrolled and has not been found to have violated the terms of his probation.
Joey Slaton @141 would take Long to the woodshed.
He was a grade a Jack ... at Iowa State. His problems were far from resolved when he was embraced by Sanderson at pen state. Without Long in the pen state lineup the year he wrestled there, Sanderson and pen state don't win.
He committed crimes at pen state which caused him to spend time in prison.
He now continues to do the one thing that he does well at an NAIA school near Des Moines. He is currently enrolled and has not been found to have violated the terms of his probation.
Joey Slaton @141 would take Long to the woodshed.
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