Sidenote just became the biggest douchebag on Hawkeyereport.
Brody Grothus
- Thread starter WEH8ST8HAWK
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Sidenote just became the biggest douchebag on Hawkeyereport.
Right up there at the very least. Totally uncalled for post on his part.
Brody should do what's right for Brody.
He's a confident, high-risk/high-reward type of guy, so I get why he wants to challenge at 149. It's his optimal weight, and he feels best there, and he thinks he'll beat everybody.
Objectively, I think he has a clearer path to success at 141 if he can get there early enough to feel comfortable. And it would help the team race. That's my opinion.
I do respect the pov that says there is historically too much emphasis on weight cutting in the sport, and "Oh, I cut 15 pounds in a week to make weight," and "Well, I cut 20," and that becomes part of the testosterone-fueled culture. Cutting a lot of weight isn't healthy, and it isn't what wrestling should be about. But to be fair, there is a spectrum, with cutting no weight at one end and putting yourself in physical danger at the other. Staying clear of the dangerous end of the spectrum, how do you put yourself in the best position to win? Is 141 too close to that end of the spectrum for Brody? Don't know--he certified there last year, but he couldn't make the cut over two weeks toward the end of the season. Could he do it effectively with more time? I suspect the answer is yes, but partly because I want the answer to be yes. McD had and continues to have success with smart weight management. Ditto for Ramos at 57kg. McD couldn't have started that cut midway through the NCAA season.
I'm well aware of my bias. I cut to 52kg--aka "the weakest weight class"--even though I felt much better physically at 57kg, because I couldn't beat Davis/Penrith/Melchiore/Chertow/Cross. It wasn't due to lack of confidence, it was due to getting beat. You do what's necessary to put yourself in a position to win. The rubber meets the road where the rubber meets the road.
He's a confident, high-risk/high-reward type of guy, so I get why he wants to challenge at 149. It's his optimal weight, and he feels best there, and he thinks he'll beat everybody.
Objectively, I think he has a clearer path to success at 141 if he can get there early enough to feel comfortable. And it would help the team race. That's my opinion.
I do respect the pov that says there is historically too much emphasis on weight cutting in the sport, and "Oh, I cut 15 pounds in a week to make weight," and "Well, I cut 20," and that becomes part of the testosterone-fueled culture. Cutting a lot of weight isn't healthy, and it isn't what wrestling should be about. But to be fair, there is a spectrum, with cutting no weight at one end and putting yourself in physical danger at the other. Staying clear of the dangerous end of the spectrum, how do you put yourself in the best position to win? Is 141 too close to that end of the spectrum for Brody? Don't know--he certified there last year, but he couldn't make the cut over two weeks toward the end of the season. Could he do it effectively with more time? I suspect the answer is yes, but partly because I want the answer to be yes. McD had and continues to have success with smart weight management. Ditto for Ramos at 57kg. McD couldn't have started that cut midway through the NCAA season.
I'm well aware of my bias. I cut to 52kg--aka "the weakest weight class"--even though I felt much better physically at 57kg, because I couldn't beat Davis/Penrith/Melchiore/Chertow/Cross. It wasn't due to lack of confidence, it was due to getting beat. You do what's necessary to put yourself in a position to win. The rubber meets the road where the rubber meets the road.
Great post from a great perspective. The bolded above sums up my POV in a nutshell. There are too many in this sport that don't do a lot of critical thinking where this is concerned.
Of course, the question remains whether getting to 141 is truly a legitimate option for Brody. If it's unsafe in the least and/or if he won't be able to perform due to weakness, that's one thing. But if it's not physically prohibitive, I couldn't agree more, Tarp -- it's a no-brainer, both for the team's title shot and for Brody's chance of winning an individual title.
Coooper has real talent. He wasn't very impressive last year, but for the most part, he hung with Grothus, as I recall. Who knows -- maybe he was still adjusting to life at Iowa, etc. I haven't given up on his potential, and if he uses the off-season to grow into a legit 157 -- and he clearly has the frame to do so -- I think he could have a solid year. If one of the other kids wins the spot, more power to him. I'd give Coop the inside track at 157, though, if Grothus doesn't go up.
I can say two things pertinent to this thread. I welcome all bets that benefit Wrestling for Life. Both gobblin and dicemen99 supported major WFL efforts last season. Gobblin and dicemen99, you are both great wrestling fans and I am incredibly grateful for you support. Thank you - BOTH.
In his defense the two of you do seem to pass it back and forth. Just be patient.
I talked to Coop in StLouis for a few minutes and I didn't really know what to make of some of the answers he gave me. I don't know him as well as most of the guys but when I asked him if he was going up for next year he simply stated that " I am a competitor". I asked him what he meant by that and he just smiled. I don't know if he meant that he was still going after 149 or if he was going to transfer because he wanted to wrestle varsity somewhere. I have thought about it several times and I still can't decipher what he was trying to say.
Posts like this are why an LOL button in needed. This board cracks me up sometimes.
Brody Grothus has been in the program for 4 years, and has an overall record of 63-28 (including redshirt year). Brandon Sorensen has been in the program for 2 years, and has a 64-10 record (including redshirt year), and a 4th place All-American finish in his only attempt. He's the 1st Varsity wrestler to win 40 matches in 15 years, and was one win shy of Ed Banach's freshman record win total of 41.
What exactly is it that is in question here?
Brody Grothus appears to be a pretty smart kid, has a lot of academic accolades in H.S. and college. And he appears to be a pretty darn good kid too. But I don't think this is one of his wiser moves, for him or the Iowa Hawkeyes.
Our overall depth is as lousy as it's been in decades. We don't have the luxury of having 2 of our perceived better wrestlers trying out for one spot, that's a really good recipe to keep getting the smaller trophies at the National Tournament. You've got a finite amount of scholarship money to throw around, use it wisely. We've had far too many holes in the middle of our lineup for multiple years now, and it looks in the early going that you can tack on one more year to that total.
Sloe's post is probably the best/most accurate depiction of reality thus far on this topic. No emotional attachment, just the facts. I'm sure in Brody's mind he feels he's better than Brandon. After all he beat him head to head. It's hard to get in his head, it would just seem so easy to me. Cutting weight sucks and from all accounts, Brody is huge right now. Get in the gym and get bigger and stronger. He''s like 5' 10" at that height he would fill out nice at 157. Doesn't sound like it's gonna happen though. Hopefully the coaching staff takes the bull by the horns and tells guys what's what for the better of the team....and this board. We've gotta come up with a top ten or top 5 douche bag poster ranking list. Any takers?
I'll start(no particular order)
1. Dietz
2. Mr Blonde
3. Cranberry Adams
4. Amalone
5. Green Wave 7
I'll start(no particular order)
1. Dietz
2. Mr Blonde
3. Cranberry Adams
4. Amalone
5. Green Wave 7
Effectively bulking up is much harder than slimming down. Maybe not mentally but physically it almost takes more discipline. Grothus looks like a classic hard gainer too. If he is not spending a huge amount of time trying to get as big as he can this summer I don't see him having much more success than Kelly did this year at 157.
If he thinks he can get down to 141 effectively, if he gets beat out at the start of the season, then I don't see this as being that big of a deal. Sorenson is a pretty big 149lber. While I don't think 157 would be ideal if he were beat out by Grothus I do think he would do much better than Grothus there and could All American at 157.
If he thinks he can get down to 141 effectively, if he gets beat out at the start of the season, then I don't see this as being that big of a deal. Sorenson is a pretty big 149lber. While I don't think 157 would be ideal if he were beat out by Grothus I do think he would do much better than Grothus there and could All American at 157.
The last thing we need is Brandon bumping up a weight mid season. Brandon would need to make the move there now, but why would he when 149 is the perfect weight. There aren't too many scenarios that would allow Brody to beat Brandon out. Even h2h wins won't trump the accomplishments Brandon had on the mat against neutral opponents. Brody bulking up or slimming down are his only good options.
I guess the problem with Grothus' plan is that an early head to head win vs. Sorensen does not give him the job. Sorensen has proven that he is a better wrestler against quality competition and gets the job done in crunch time. BG has shown flashes of greatness and times of mediocrity and didn't get it done when it counted at Nationals.
I just don't see how he gets the spot unless Sorensen gets injured or goes through a real sophomore slump. And if he does and BG wins the spot, there is no time for Sorensen to go up and be extremely effective - and he isn't going down. Bad for the team.
Now if BG's plan is really to end up at 141 but to challenge at 149 early in the season to save his body the longer term effects/fatigue of sucking down, I think it is a good plan. He can stay low to mid 150s in the early season and then work his way down and wrestle 141 the last half of the season and will probably still be pretty fresh at the end of the season.
I just don't see how he gets the spot unless Sorensen gets injured or goes through a real sophomore slump. And if he does and BG wins the spot, there is no time for Sorensen to go up and be extremely effective - and he isn't going down. Bad for the team.
Now if BG's plan is really to end up at 141 but to challenge at 149 early in the season to save his body the longer term effects/fatigue of sucking down, I think it is a good plan. He can stay low to mid 150s in the early season and then work his way down and wrestle 141 the last half of the season and will probably still be pretty fresh at the end of the season.
Can someone please explain to me why this is so detrimental to Iowa's chances at an NCAA title? I do not see it having any effect at all. In fact, I could argue that it may turn into a positive.
The recipe to win a NC is NOT having good wrestlers at every weight. It's having very high finishers - very high - at a few weights and some AA guys at a few more. Spare me the Minnesota outlier.
Unless the focus here has switched to winning the National Dual title, I'm not sure what all the commotion is about.
The recipe to win a NC is NOT having good wrestlers at every weight. It's having very high finishers - very high - at a few weights and some AA guys at a few more. Spare me the Minnesota outlier.
Unless the focus here has switched to winning the National Dual title, I'm not sure what all the commotion is about.
Pretty simple. Most people think Grothus could earn more team points at 141 or 157 than our projected starter. He earns zero as Sorensen's backup.
Brody is a very good wrestler. If he can make it to 141 and be effective, he WILL be a very high placer. If he hit the weights and dedicated himself to 157, he potentially could be an AA and get us some good points at Nationals.
Well, as much of a fan I am of Grothus now, it's pretty impossible to project him scoring many points in March at either 141 or 157. I don't see how anyone can really project him more than R12 at these weights and that doesn't score you many points. How many? 3 or 4 at the most? How many more is that than the alternative.
While Sorenson is very good, I still see him behind Tsirtsis when it counts and Retherford. Throw in Micah Jordan and possibly someone like Collica and I could see him finishing anywhere from 3 to 5 right now as it stands.
As much as we all would like to think these top guys are self motivated and doing everything possible to get to the next level, sometimes it takes some external stimulus to help out. Look at Gable - the most motivated guy ever - and if Larry Owings doesn't come along, his career is different.
Given that Grothus has defeated Sorenson in the past, I'm sure he is not taking his run at 149 lightly. Perhaps that underlying threat is the extra motivation that means the difference between 3 and 5th, 4th and 2nd.
Not saying this happens, but it could. And it's just as likely to happen as the odds that 3 points are going to make a difference in the team title race.
He has never had a chance to wrestle in the BIGs or NCAA. But, he has beat Tsirtsis, Kindig, Grajales, Habat, and Sorensen. Plus, he's dangerous. I'd like him in the lineup.
What exactly is the positive part about Grothus being a backup 149 lber? Using that logic, assuming Gullibon moves to 141, I hope to hell Conaway says "Naw, I'm going to stay at 125 and backup Megaludis". Grothus was rated fairly highly at 149 before the spot went to Sorensen and has some solid signature wins. It's been stated he doesn't cut much weight, and he's certified at 141 before. It's not a stretch to think he could do fairly well if he managed a successful cut. I'm not a fan of guys dropping weight classes either. It's worked for some, but I think you'd find more data to suggest it's more beneficial to move up a weight. The key difference is if that person struggled previously at the lower weight. Grothus didn't struggle to make 149.
As a PSU fan I am sure you think it is a great idea to have Grothus on the bench at 149. I think he is a high all american with a outside chance of being a title contender if he works all summer at getting down and being effective at 141.
For crying out loud we tied for the Big Ten Title. Every point counts. Say he pins a couple guys and takes 8th that would still be some valuable points.
For crying out loud we tied for the Big Ten Title. Every point counts. Say he pins a couple guys and takes 8th that would still be some valuable points.
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Well, I posted above one possible positive aspect was outlined above.
I'm glad you brought up Conaway - it illustrates my point. Beyond the fact that as a hard working senior I'd like to see Jordan find a place in the lineup, I don't think it will make a hill of beans difference whether Conaway or Kade Moss ends up in the lineup in regards to PSU's title hopes. The key is Gulibon picking the weight where he will finish as high as possible. Possible Conaway points at 133, as compared to Moss at 141 will probably be incidental to the team race - and Conaway has a whole hell of a lot more track record at 133, than Grothus at 141. An unbiased observer would project MORE points from Conaway, but they are still going to be incidental.
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I don't think Grothus scores many points at 141 or 157 - I really don't. Obviously he feels his best chance to place high is at 149 also, but you probably know better.
To tell you the truth I don't really see Iowa as the main threat to a title in 2016 for PSU. I think they will be 3rd or 4th. His presence in or out of the lineup is most likely going to have no impact in any race this year.
That is your opinion, which is reeking of PSU bias. I think Grothus will not beat out Sorenson. I think Grothus will give us a legit chance at big points at 141 and not 157.
I think we have just as much firepower as anyone out there if Grothus, who certified at 141, works at getting down there over the summer.
I think we have just as much firepower as anyone out there if Grothus, who certified at 141, works at getting down there over the summer.
Well hopefully our coaches put the best team out there and fight for any team points no matter how small they are. There's certainly some history of tight team races. I think almost everyone agrees his chances to place high are probably best at 149. As a backup, that'll get him zero points. Whether or not anyone thinks Iowa as a main threat for the title is not relevant in this situation. It's not like we're talking about pulling a redshirt. The discussion is clearly about trying to get two top 5 149 lb wrestlers in the lineup and strengthen your max point potential. Yes, I think Grothus is at least a top 5 guy at 149. Hell, his soph year he beat the 1 through 4 placers from NCAA's. Last year he was highly ranked prior to Sorensen taking the spot. Grothus was ranked in the top 8 prior to a disastrous Big Ten tourney his sophomore year. Dice, I think I understand your point better though. You believe Grothus isn't a difference maker unless he's at 149. I think he's a beast at 141 if he can manage the cut. We can agree to disagree.
Is this where you go when your losing an argument? Just toss out some insults, take your ball, and go wa-wa-wa all the way home.
Some of what you say has logic that homers won't admit, but this is moronic. Micah Jordan has zero quality wins and Collica has never done anything. Maybe you can list about 15 other guys that have potential who may or may not pass Sorenson along with Tsirtsis and Retherford. You claim to be the voice of reason and then throw out nonsense like this.
What did I say was an insult? I was throwing out my opinion. Most people not from Iowa think they will be 3rd or 4th. The stats guys SHP and andrege's initial rankings will probably have them there also. Certainly not taking my ball and going home.
Also, I'm not sure why anyone here would thing that saying Grothus doesn't project any better than R12 at a weight other than 149 right now is an insult. It's just reality. Maybe he will prove to be better, but he sure hasn't so far - he hasn't competed there.
Moronic, huh? OK, how about CJ Cobb? I was just throwing out 2 names that I think will AA next year at 149. I would pick Sorenson over them, but he certainly hasn't really separated yet. That was my point in terms of competing with Grothus.
You guys can stick your head in the sand and think Micah Jordan won't be any good this year.
A person may "know" their son is not medical school material or "know" their daughter is not going to make a run at Miss America, yet they don't appreciate hearing it from a neighbors. It tends to come off as an insult.
Yeah, you know CJ Cobb, the guy that beat Sorensen at NCAAs last year? Same guy that Brody handled at Midlands? I'm really not sure why people write off Brody. I think the two are neck and neck given head to heads and common opponents.
Consistency vs Bonus Point potential, I suppose.
Yes, absolutely moronic. If Micah passes Sorenson then he is going to be giving Zain and Tsirtsis absolutely everything they can handle. So while Zain may win, I could see 1-8 depending on how many unproven guys may or may not pass him. I also never said Micah wasn't going to be any good, but picking him to be on Sorenson's level because of his family name is a stretch at this point. Not impossible but certainly a brave projection. You're okay using "facts" as long as it supports your twisted arguments.
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